Special program for MD

[marubill]

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Hello does anyone know if there are any other special dental programs (beside Columbia), where you don't have to take the basic science courses, if you already have a MD degree?

 

[NyCzPeter]

From what I know, Columbia is the only school with an advanced standing program for those with a md. However, most schools do have advanced standing programs for foreign dentists. So perhaps you can call each school and ask them if they'll make an exception for you, since I would think a US trained physician would be more qualified than a foreign dentist.

 

[Pyriots]

Hello does anyone know if there are any other special dental programs (beside Columbia), where you don't have to take the basic science courses, if you already have a MD degree?

Well my concern would be this.

courses like dental anatomy and occlusion and all the "dental" classes are taught at the same time as the basic science courses. so as an MD, if you dont have that knowledge already, you cant very well skip ahead I would think.

If you look at Columbia, youre not saving much time:

http://dental.columbia.edu/education/physicians_meds.htm
you have one year of dental only courses.
then you take the dental boards.
then you take a semester of pre operative courses


I expect your paying full tuition this whole time anyway. And you have that extra time at the beginning that foreign trained AP students dont have to go through.

Doesnt look to me like you're getting THAT advanced placement. Its more like a transfer from USMLE1 to NBDE1.....but you still get held back a couple semesters to make up for the "dental only" aspects before they let you get into clinic.

 

[marubill]

Thanks for your help!

 

[DrNush]

I would think a US trained physician would be more qualified than a foreign dentist.

foreign trained dentists actually get a really good education. it's a false assumption that foreign training is below the level of US training (in most schools at least). they cover the SAME basic science material, do impactions, hundreds of extractions, alveoloplasties, RCTs and much more that US trained dentists don't really get a chance to do because obviously most people here take better care of their oral hygiene than in 3rd world countries so there aren't such hugely severe cases. then again, US trained dentists do much more esthetic work etc.


on the other hand, how how does it work for general dentists who wanna go into medicine?

 

[dentstd]

I would think a US trained physician would be more qualified than a foreign dentist.

You havn't seen the piss poor work product that you and your classmates will produce. You havn't seen your professors correct the diagnosis of private practice dentists, because either they outright didn't know what they were doing or they preferentially gave a diagnosis that would produce them a higher cash flow.

 

[aphistis]

foreign trained dentists actually get a really good education. it's a false assumption that foreign training is below the level of US training (in most schools at least). they cover the SAME basic science material, do impactions, hundreds of extractions, alveoloplasties, RCTs and much more that US trained dentists don't really get a chance to do because obviously most people here take better care of their oral hygiene than in 3rd world countries so there aren't such hugely severe cases. then again, US trained dentists do much more esthetic work etc.


on the other hand, how how does it work for general dentists who wanna go into medicine?

Have you ever actually seen any dentistry done outside the United States, Canada, and Western Europe? It's awful.

 

[NyCzPeter]

Have you ever actually seen any dentistry done outside the United States, Canada, and Western Europe? It's awful.

My thoughts exactly, considering the fact that healthcare practitioners in most other countries only go through half as much education as those in the US. I just went to Hong Kong a little while ago and the dental diploma there all have a big fat Bachlor of Dentistry. Passed by a physician clinic and I swear this one dude was a dermatologist, geriatric specialist, immunologist, and pediatrician all in one 😱. Really shows you the level of training these guys get

 

[DrNush]

Have you ever actually seen any dentistry done outside the United States, Canada, and Western Europe? It's awful.

actually yes i have.. my mom's cousins own 5 dental clinics in a foreign country and i think they're on par with US practices.

 

[DrNush]

My thoughts exactly, considering the fact that healthcare practitioners in most other countries only go through half as much education as those in the US. I just went to Hong Kong a little while ago and the dental diploma there all have a big fat Bachlor of Dentistry. Passed by a physician clinic and I swear this one dude was a dermatologist, geriatric specialist, immunologist, and pediatrician all in one 😱. Really shows you the level of training these guys get

yes i agree, some people can pay their way through, which SUCKS. and even australia awards a "Bachelor of Dentistry" - it's just a name, does it make them lower? i really don't think every doctor who hasn't gotten his training in the West half of the world has had poor training. i find foreign trained docs to be much more empathetic because they have to see poverty etc in the 3rd world whereas most docs here lived the good life growing up.

have u gone through the education system outside the US, canada or western europe, as aphistis says? if not, how would u know how much they are trained compared to US docs?

this said, i can see where u guys r comin from....

 

[aphistis]

actually yes i have.. my mom's cousins own 5 dental clinics in a foreign country and i think they're on par with US practices.

You're obviously entitled to your opinion. Maybe it'll change after you graduate. Then again, maybe not. [shrug]

 

[DrNush]

You're obviously entitled to your opinion. Maybe it'll change after you graduate. Then again, maybe not. [shrug]

i just dont think every dentist and every d school out of these countries u mentioned can be bad. that's a generalization. i dont think my opinion can change about that.

but like i already said, i can see where ur coming from

 

[Dr.Millisevert]

I just went to Hong Kong a little while ago and the dental diploma there all have a big fat Bachlor of Dentistry.

Doctors who graduate from Oxford and Cambridge medical schools have a big fat Bachelor of Medicine degree. 🙂

... and guess what.. there are some who graduate with Doctor of Medicine degree from diploma mills.


The title of your degree means nothing. Titles are mainly out of tradition of the particular university. Some medical and dental schools who grant "bachelors" are way better than some that grant "doctorates".. and visa versa. You have to look at each individual program seperately.

In general.. all dental programs in the US, Canada, Australia, New Zealand, the UK, Ireland, (Western Europe), etc are pretty much the same when it comes to what they teach and the quality of their graduates. 👍

 

[LIer2010]

Doctors who graduate from Oxford and Cambridge medical schools have a big fat Bachelor of Medicine degree. 🙂

... and guess what.. there are some who graduate with Doctor of Medicine degree from diploma mills.


The title of your degree means nothing. Titles are mainly out of tradition of the particular university. Some medical and dental schools who grant "bachelors" are way better than some that grant "doctorates".. and visa versa. You have to look at each individual program seperately.

In general.. all dental programs in the US, Canada, Australia, New Zealand, the UK, Ireland, (Western Europe), etc are pretty much the same when it comes to what they teach and the quality of their graduates. 👍

Add South Korea and Japan. Some of the best dental work I've seen are from there.

 

[cwebb4]

Add South Korea and Japan. Some of the best dental work I've seen are from there.

Ditto to that!!!

 

[shabu2]

Have you ever actually seen any dentistry done outside the United States, Canada, and Western Europe? It's awful.

Prob some students in your class that produced work that was sub par....I know I had a few.😉

 

[shabu2]

Passed by a physician clinic and I swear this one dude was a dermatologist, geriatric specialist, immunologist, and pediatrician all in one 😱. Really shows you the level of training these guys get

Even in some rural cities in the US, that's all you sometimes may get....an internal med doc doing it all. After my rotation on internal med, I have a huge respect for those guys. They know a TON.

 

[aphistis]

Prob some students in your class that produced work that was sub par....I know I had a few.😉

Me too, but you're making my point for me. These are practicing dentists overseas whose treatment compares evenly to what underperforming students produce here.

 

[DrNush]

These are practicing dentists overseas whose treatment compares evenly to what underperforming students produce here.

is there any kind of backup to this claim?
subjective claims are just that - subjective. yes, there are practicing dentists like that, but not ALL. some of the docs trained here are horrible, some are great. some abroad are pathetic, some are great. that's the truth.
i don't think anyone on SDN has seen the work of every single dentist trained overseas (in non-caucasian dominated countries, specifically) to be able to make such a comment.

 

[aphistis]

is there any kind of backup to this claim?
subjective claims are just that - subjective. yes, there are practicing dentists like that, but not ALL. some of the docs trained here are horrible, some are great. some abroad are pathetic, some are great. that's the truth.
i don't think anyone on SDN has seen the work of every single dentist trained overseas (in non-caucasian dominated countries, specifically) to be able to make such a comment.

You want to go this route? OK--nor have you seen the work of every single FTD to refute it. I stand by my remarks. Next caller.

 

[DrNush]

You want to go this route? OK--nor have you seen the work of every single FTD to refute it. I stand by my remarks. Next caller.

Luckily for me, you don't have to see the work of EVERY FTD to say that not all of them suck. You DO have to see the work of every single FTD since the beginning of time to claim ALL work done outside is AWFUL. So really i cant make sense of that comment. Next caller.

 

[aphistis]

Luckily for me, you don't have to see the work of EVERY FTD to say that not all of them suck. You DO have to see the work of every single FTD since the beginning of time to claim ALL work done outside is AWFUL. So really i cant make sense of that comment. Next caller.

Fair enough. Rookie mistake on my part. I'm a little embarrassed.

Regardless, until I start seeing some consistently good dentistry from the places we're talking about, I'm sticking with the only reasonable conclusion I can draw from everything I've seen so far. I hope you turn to be right and something makes me change my mind; so far, though, it hasn't happened.

 

[AkaDr]

actually yes i have.. my mom's cousins own 5 dental clinics in a foreign country and i think they're on par with US practices.

i seen many people who had dental work done out side US and it is really good.

 

[smaluk]

😍

 

[smaluk]

Have you ever actually seen any dentistry done outside the United States, Canada, and Western Europe? It's awful.

Excuse me, I am a German Dentist thus from Europe. Our education is basically the same. I am not saying that in every other part of Europe, or the world Dentistry is as good as here, but as much as I love Americans: you should be more humble ( as you usually are) when it comes to making such generalizations. I am not saying either that a foreign trained Dentist who is qualified should not go through some adapting training, though. However, just assuming that every other Country does bad Dentistry is ignorant and a little bit silly, to say the truth.
By the way, many implant systems,techniques, instruments and devices are invented by Germans and they are being taught and used here in the USA. Just to give you something to think about....

 

[umska]

Excuse me, I am a German Dentist thus from Europe. Our education is basically the same. I am not saying that in every other part of Europe, or the world Dentistry is as good as here, but as much as I love Americans: you should be more humble ( as you usually are) when it comes to making such generalizations. I am not saying either that a foreign trained Dentist who is qualified should not go through some training, though. However, just assuming that every other Country does bad Dentistry is ignorant and a little bit silly.
By the way, many new implant systems,techniques, instruments and devices are invented by Germans and they are being taught and used here in the USA. Just to give you something to think about....

Dont forget to add all those foreign trained teachers in American schools and researchers.

 

[DrNush]

Excuse me, I am a German Dentist thus from Europe. Our education is basically the same. I am not saying that in every other part of Europe, or the world Dentistry is as good as here, but as much as I love Americans: you should be more humble ( as you usually are) when it comes to making such generalizations. I am not saying either that a foreign trained Dentist who is qualified should not go through some adapting training, though. However, just assuming that every other Country does bad Dentistry is ignorant and a little bit silly, to say the truth.
By the way, many implant systems,techniques, instruments and devices are invented by Germans and they are being taught and used here in the USA. Just to give you something to think about....

👍👍👍

 

[aphistis]

Excuse me, I am a German Dentist thus from Europe. Our education is basically the same. I am not saying that in every other part of Europe, or the world Dentistry is as good as here, but as much as I love Americans: you should be more humble ( as you usually are) when it comes to making such generalizations. I am not saying either that a foreign trained Dentist who is qualified should not go through some adapting training, though. However, just assuming that every other Country does bad Dentistry is ignorant and a little bit silly, to say the truth.
By the way, many implant systems,techniques, instruments and devices are invented by Germans and they are being taught and used here in the USA. Just to give you something to think about....

Germany is typically considered part of western Europe over here. Thanks for taking the time to post.

 

[dentwannabe]

I'd have to agree with Nush partly.

Aphistis, its arrogant to simply lump up (conveniently) all the "white" countries together, give them your stamp of approval and sideline the rest of the world due to your few years of experience in Anytown, USA. Do you have hard data backing up your claim? So you're saying all these countries have subpar work -- Egypt, Iran, Saudi, Dubai, Turkey, India, China, Japan, Brazil, etc... I don't get what you're basing it on. Have you traveled to these places? Or are you basing it on the one Egyptian guy from dental school or a Chinese FTD's Class II you once saw. Not sure. Either way, as healthcare professionals part of an international community I feel like we shouldn't generalize these types of things.

 

[NyCzPeter]

I'd have to agree with Nush partly.

Aphistis, its arrogant to simply lump up (conveniently) all the "white" countries together, give them your stamp of approval and sideline the rest of the world due to your few years of experience in Anytown, USA. Do you have hard data backing up your claim? So you're saying all these countries have subpar work -- Egypt, Iran, Saudi, Dubai, Turkey, India, China, Japan, Brazil, etc... I don't get what you're basing it on. Have you traveled to these places? Or are you basing it on the one Egyptian guy from dental school or a Chinese FTD's Class II you once saw. Not sure. Either way, as healthcare professionals part of an international community I feel like we shouldn't generalize these types of things.

What is there to justify? Less time spent in training = crappier work. Why is this so hard to understand?

 

[DrNush]

What is there to justify? Less time spent in training = crappier work. Why is this so hard to understand?

less time spent training? did u know in countries like India u do FOUR years of d school - the same as in the US IN ADDITION TO 1 yr of an internship where you do only clinical work before you can get your degree?

so thats a total of 5 years vs 4 yrs in the US.

dentwannabe has the right idea. it's no wonder so many people dislike Americans - we come across as so arrogant and holier-than-thou even though half of us have never set foot outside n. america.

 

[aphistis]

I should clarify something that may not be as obvious from my comments as it could have been: while I believe my perceptions are accurate in broad strokes, I don't believe there aren't also numerous individual exceptions. That said, for everyone who still disagrees with me, vive la difference. Thanks for keeping things civil.