specializing as a DO

[Doctor Bagel]

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I'm going to go ahead and link to my personal experience. You all should know about this.

http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=234565

wow, that so sucks, dr. maryc. i want that send that guy some nasty emails for you letting him know how darn ignorant he is.

getting back to fellowships, how hard is it for a do to get something like say rheum or endo?

 

[(nicedream)]

wow, that so sucks, dr. maryc. i want that send that guy some nasty emails for you letting him know how darn ignorant he is.

getting back to fellowships, how hard is it for a do to get something like say rheum or endo?

Rheum and Endo are two of the easier ACGME IM fellowships to get. DOs are equally represented in ACGME Endo, and are significantly overrepresented in Rheum programs currently (9%).
However, doing an ACGME IM residency would almost be mandatory, because there are essentially no funded AOA slots available right now in those subspecialties.

 

[Dr Alo]

That's correct. I don't think being a DO makes a big difference in fellowship application (assuming you did an ACGME residency). The main point I wanted to make was, it's not as easy to get Cardio or GI (for ANY resident, MD or DO) as Malo made it sound.

I've rotated at over 18 hospitals in the last two years. Some mostly MD, some mostly DO. Every single one I went to had residents, chiefs and attendings that would say, "Why don't you do your residency here, we could get you into X fellowship." Some were cards, some were gi, some were surgery, some were heme/onc, neuro, id, nephro, pulm and lots of others.

My point simply was, if you know you want to do GI.... do your residency at a place that has a GI fellowship. Do well, kiss some major ass, do some research, perform well on your Step 3, and be an easy to get along with person. At most places, the residents have a lot of say into whether or not you are accepted... so be friendly and easy-going. Hold no grudges, be friends with everyone, never gossip or talk about anyone that isn't present (word gets around).

In fact, at most places they just said, come here and we'll take you. Of course, if you have an attitude or personality that is awful.... I highly doubt you will go anywhere, even if you have 99% on boards.

Yes, fellowships are tough, but not as tough as people are making it sound.

And ultimately, it doesn't matter if you do an MD or DO GI fellowship... you will still be a GI doc and make a ton of money. It's just a means to an end. If you know that you can shine no matter where you go.... then go. If you want less competition go to a place where only DOs can apply.

 

[docmd2010]

My dad is a director of pediatrics residency placement and he told me that all he cares about is usmle scores. basically you can get your medical degree from iceland and if u do well on the boards, you're gonna get in. honestly who gives a flying f**k what the hell your initials are, whether md, or do, or rn or whatever

the boards prove how much you know about the science of medicine, they don't give do's and md's different usmle exams, it's the same damn thing. u want a good residency-do well on the boards. finished.

 

[NRAI2001]

I've rotated at over 18 hospitals in the last two years. Some mostly MD, some mostly DO. Every single one I went to had residents, chiefs and attendings that would say, "Why don't you do your residency here, we could get you into X fellowship." Some were cards, some were gi, some were surgery, some were heme/onc, neuro, id, nephro, pulm and lots of others.

My point simply was, if you know you want to do GI.... do your residency at a place that has a GI fellowship. Do well, kiss some major ass, do some research, perform well on your Step 3, and be an easy to get along with person. At most places, the residents have a lot of say into whether or not you are accepted... so be friendly and easy-going. Hold no grudges, be friends with everyone, never gossip or talk about anyone that isn't present (word gets around).

In fact, at most places they just said, come here and we'll take you. Of course, if you have an attitude or personality that is awful.... I highly doubt you will go anywhere, even if you have 99% on boards.

Yes, fellowships are tough, but not as tough as people are making it sound.

And ultimately, it doesn't matter if you do an MD or DO GI fellowship... you will still be a GI doc and make a ton of money. It's just a means to an end. If you know that you can shine no matter where you go.... then go. If you want less competition go to a place where only DOs can apply.

👍

 

[(nicedream)]

My dad is a director of pediatrics residency placement and he told me that all he cares about is usmle scores. basically you can get your medical degree from iceland and if u do well on the boards, you're gonna get in. honestly who gives a flying f**k what the hell your initials are, whether md, or do, or rn or whatever

the boards prove how much you know about the science of medicine, they don't give do's and md's different usmle exams, it's the same damn thing. u want a good residency-do well on the boards. finished.

That's pediatrics...
What you say isn't really true, especially in certain specialties. By the way, there are separate boards.

 

[docmd2010]

That's pediatrics...
What you say isn't really true, especially in certain specialties. By the way, there are separate boards.

i know that they take different boards, but
please look at what i wrote, i didn't say different "boards". i was insinuating that all md's and do's can take the usmle and they'll all be taking the same exam. they both may come from different educational backgrounds but the scores show what people know. in my opinion, residency placement should be based on what you know, not where you got your education. after all, what's a harvard education to a student who doesn't study? absolutely nothing. you can go to the best institutions in the world, but what you make out of it will take you the furthest. now, true, harvard grads generally do better on the boards than say a typically state school grad-not arguing that point.

 

[pa2do]

Wrong... There are serious problems which include certain fellowships in the MD world require you to have completed a ACGME residency to be eligable for there postion. To complicate matters if by chane a DO went to an ACGME residency and wanted to do a DO fellowship they now encounter the same problem but in reverse..ACGME residency but the DO fellowship requires an AOA residency.

If you read the previous linked thread you can see other examples of discrimination based on ignorance/predjudice of DO's.

There are serious problems that need to be fixed by both the AOA and AMA. The AOA needs to have enough residencies (in various locations that are not the midwest) to support the current number of graduates ( there is a 1/3 shortfall numerically, ignoring preferance of carrer also). The AMA world has a stigmatized view of DO's that just isnt valid anymore. Maybe..100 years ago it could be acurate but even then it was BS for the most part. Right now as DO students we go thru EVERY course (with the same standards) plus some that MD students go thru. That alone is enough to negate all the BS reasons as to inequality. It is just a big problem that will take time and effort (on both sides) to eleveate.

The AOA Fellowship programs only require that you do an AOA internship. You don't have to do a full AOA internal medicine residency, so you can do the last 2 years in ACGME residency and open the window to both opportunities.

 

[OSUdoc08]

Rheum and Endo are two of the easier ACGME IM fellowships to get. DOs are equally represented in ACGME Endo, and are significantly overrepresented in Rheum programs currently (9%).
However, doing an ACGME IM residency would almost be mandatory, because there are essentially no funded AOA slots available right now in those subspecialties.

You can do an ACGME fellowship after an AOA residency. (I plan on doing this)

 

[(nicedream)]

You can do an ACGME fellowship after an AOA residency. (I plan on doing this)

1. It makes it more difficult to get into a fellowship.

2. You cannot get board certified by the allopathic board. I don't know about the osteopathic...but I'd be pretty unhappy doing an allopathic fellowship and then being denied their certification.

 

[r90t]

Do a dual accredited internship. Problem solved.

I must stress that you should take the USMLE's if you plan on doing a fellowship or hard to get residency. You can apply to both DO (if it exists) and MD. However, if you have only COMLEX you may handicap yourself. My Rad Onc candidates are MD/PhDs with excellent USMLE scores. How do you compare a DO student with only COMLEX to that?

I did not take the USMLE and am fortunate to be in my program. I don't want others to make the mistatke that I did as a med student and potentially limit the number of programs that you can apply to.

 

[OSUdoc08]

1. It makes it more difficult to get into a fellowship.

2. You cannot get board certified by the allopathic board. I don't know about the osteopathic...but I'd be pretty unhappy doing an allopathic fellowship and then being denied their certification.

Where do you get your information?

 

[(nicedream)]

This is not a true statement. Where do you get your information?

A prerequisite for sitting for ACGME fellowship board exams is completing an ACGME residency. You can only get board certification by the AOA by petitioning them for approval of your ACGME fellowship.

 

[musiclink213]

Not sure how this helps to anything, but one of the docs at the othopedist group I go to is a DO. He's the shoulder and elbow specialist, and I go to the knee guy, so I never went to him though

 

[jintonic5]

hi there,

i didn't read the whole thread so if this has already been answered please bear with me.

among specialties is there a specialty that DO's gravitate towards? do DO's have a certain affinity, for example, rheumotology over physical med over surgery?

i like the philosophy of osteopathic training, and i know that a lot of osteopaths go into fp and peds and such, but i'm not sure if i would want to stay in general practice... anyhoo, any insight would be most appreciated.

 

[OSUdoc08]

hi there,

i didn't read the whole thread so if this has already been answered please bear with me.

among specialties is there a specialty that DO's gravitate towards? do DO's have a certain affinity, for example, rheumotology over physical med over surgery?

i like the philosophy of osteopathic training, and i know that a lot of osteopaths go into fp and peds and such, but i'm not sure if i would want to stay in general practice... anyhoo, any insight would be most appreciated.

The following are the most common areas that DO's enter:

Family Medicine
Emergency Medicine
Internal Medicine
Pediatrics
OB/GYN
General Surgery

 

[(nicedream)]

The following are the most common areas that DO's enter:

Family Medicine
Emergency Medicine
Internal Medicine
Pediatrics
OB/GYN
General Surgery

Close, but not quite.

TOP TEN DO FIELDS BY # OF PRACTICING PHYSICIANS
1. Family Practice (19,656)
2. Internal Medicine (3,244)
3. Emergency Medicine (2,669)
4. Anesthesiology (1,448)
5. OB/GYN (1,369)
6. Pediatrics (1,020)
7. Orthopedic Surgery (972)
8. Psychiatry (966)
9. Radiology (940)
10. Gen Surg (922)

As you can see, the only fields in which there are less DOs than in Gen Surg are things such as Derm, Ophtho, ENT, and IM subspecialties.

It's vital to compare those rankings/numbers with those of MDs (while most DOs are in primary care, most MDs are as well).

TOP TEN MD FIELDS BY # OF PRACTICING PHYSICIANS
1. Internal Medicine (134,430)
2. Family Practice (71,635)
3. Pediatrics (51,066)
4. Psychiatry (45,737)
5. OB/GYN (40,241)
6. Gen Surg (36,709)
7. Anesthesiology (35,788)
8. Radiology (33,659)
9. Emergency Medicine (23,016)
10. Orthopedic Surgery (22,289)

If you crunch the #s taking into account the proportion of total physicians DOs make, you find that DOs are extremely overrepresented in FP and EM, underrepresented in Neurosurg, Ophtho, Plastic Surg, and Uro, and about evenly represented in other fields with exceptions in some of the subspecialties. While they are techinically underrepresented in IM, Peds, and Psych, that is more a function of the high number of MDs in those fields than a barrier to DOs entering them.

 

[plasticbuddy]

That's pediatrics...
What you say isn't really true, especially in certain specialties. By the way, there are separate boards.

NiceDream... you are obviously the only person in touch with reality here...
pediatrics is an easy match.

to Malo: listen to NiceDream... of course it is possible... its just harder like ND has been saying the whole time... you can do all the research/kissing up/top scores stuff you want to and some MD from a decent school might take your spot just b/c he got into an MD school... sad but true!

 

[NRAI2001]

NiceDream... you are obviously the only person in touch with reality here...
pediatrics is an easy match.

to Malo: listen to NiceDream... of course it is possible... its just harder like ND has been saying the whole time... you can do all the research/kissing up/top scores stuff you want to and some MD from a decent school might take your spot just b/c he got into an MD school... sad but true!

I think Malo is almost finished with DO school 👍