specializing

[jkq202]

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Specializing is something I realllyy want to do. I was just reading through one of the veterinary threads, and there were a couple posts from vet students in australia about how to go about specializing. I am strongly considering University of Melbourne, and was already accepted there...but now I'm wondering. I thought it was fairly simple to become a specialist (not the training, but the process of applying to a residency and being accepted). Aren't school advisors and professors supposed to help students onto a career path? Why don't these students know how to become a specialist? Isn't it quite common here in the US if that's what you want to do? Should I not go to Melbourne then...or could I go and apply to residencies back in the US? Would I have as good a chance of getting those residencies (if my grades were just as good) to someone who got their degree from the US?

 

[AuburnPreVet]

I'm not sure how much schools offer guidance in terms of specializing. At least so far, our school hasn't coached us on the issue, at all. However, the information is readily available online. It may be that they are going to tell us at a later date (I'm only an incoming 2nd year), who knows. Regardless, from what I've heard you should be on equal footing as far as applying for internships/residencies as long as you are going to an AVMA-accredited school or pass an exam when you get to the states. We have several residents and profs who did their DVM-equivalent training somewhere else, and did post-doctoral stuff here in the states.

 

[judyrvc]

I can tell you that I went to vet school in the UK and I'm now in a residency program in the US. However, not everyone who wants to be a specialist get to be one. There are so many more people who apply than there are spots. That being said, I agree with AuburnPreVet in terms of you being on equal footing with grads from the US as long you have competitive grades. It's going to be important for you to get good recommendations from specialists in the field you are planning to apply for and doing externships/visits to the programs will be essential. I can't say anyone at my school ever gave me guidance in the process. I just knew I wanted to do it, especially after working for a couple of summers in a large vet hospital. A lot of it comes down to looking at the virmp website (www.virmp.org)- a little early for you but it might give you some ideas. And then contacting the programs you are interested in when applying. Some universities are very happy taking foreign grads. I can think of 2 from Australia, 1 from England (2 if you count me but I'm American), 2 from Ireland, 1 from Italy at my school in the intern/resident group this year and I'm sure I'm missing some. Let me know if I can provide you with any other pieces of information 🙂

 

[jkq202]

judy, thanks that's great advice. I did have a look at that website to learn about the whole matching process. That was helpful. What are you specializing in? At this point, I am pretty unsure what I'd want to do, but I was thinking cardiology maybe. But that's likely to change. How did you figure out/know what you wanted to specialize in? When did you know? Did you do an internship and work for some time before applying to residency programs? Is that the normal route students take? When do you have time to do externships? During vet school, or do you wait till after? How long are externships (it seems they must be at least a few months if you're supposed to get LORs from them). Sorry for all these questions! I am just sort of confused about how new grads go about specializing and make themselves competitive applicants (other than getting good grades).

 

[Bill59]

The competition for residencies depends a lot on the specialty. Some are extremely competitive while others and not very competitive at all.

There are several potential challenges graduates of non-North American schools might have when applying for North American internships/residences.

Grading format. Many non-US schools don't provide GPA and class rank for their graduates. GPA/class rank is a major factor in picking interns.

Timing. Some non-US schools do not finish in time for the typical start date for US internships in June.

Visas. These days Visa issues are very slow. It can be difficult to get a Visa issued between the time you match and the start date.

Familiarity with foreign schools. Most intern committees like to know about the school and know people at the school they can contact for references.

In general, these issues are more important for internships than residencies. And they may not apply to your particular situation -- Melbourne may grade on a 4.0 scale, you may be a US citizen, I don't know. But it's something to think about.

 

[judyrvc]

I'm a dermatology resident- it is a fairly competitive residency to get. I can honestly tell you that I thought I wanted to specialize in exotics or surgery while I was in vet school. But towards the end of vet school and during my internship, I changed my mind. It really had to do with my derm rotation in vet school (which was great) and the rotations I had as an intern. I know a lot of people who originally thought one thing and changed their minds. I didn't match the 1st year I applied- but I'll admit I hadn't done too much extra derm stuff (like the national meeting or electives during my internship). I ended up doing a specialty internship at a huge private small animal hospital and it gave me the edge I needed. I was told I was the most competitive candidate after that experience. You'll start to notice that each year, more specialty internships are popping up. It's becoming more common to do a rotating internship, then a specialty internship and then a residency. A lot of people apply for residencies during their internship and I recommend that if you know what you want to do. I know people who worked in practice for a couple of years and never went back to apply for residencies. I can only imagine how hard it is to go from making a regular vet salary to going back to a resident salary (plus who know what else may happen in your life over several years)

Most externships are done during your time in vet school. Every school is different- I had to do 26 weeks in a 2 year period. We were given time off of rotations to do some and some were required over the summer/Easter breaks. I don't think the students at the school I'm at now have a huge requirement- I know most have done 3-4 externships. Most externships are about 2-3 weeks. You don't usually get letters of recommendations from these places (unless you go there several times) but if you apply there for an internship, they will be able to note that you were there and be able to remember how great you were 🙂

Hope this helps a little more- I'm still happy to answer more questions if you have more of them to ask 🙂

 

[bern]

It seems that a substantial number of people end up doing something quite different from what they thought they would when they entered vet school.

My school has a number of student chapters of organizations like ACVIM (internal medicine), ACVP (pathology), surgery, etc. Most have lunches with interesting speakers and even some wet labs and field trips throughout the year. I signed up with about half a dozen and it really helped me learn about the different specializations.

We also took a required fluff class called "Intro. to Vet. Med." that was a weekly lecture from a guest speaker--they chose veterinarians in a variety of fields like public health and zoo medicine. That was also helpful in getting to know what possibilities are available to us.

IMO, don't even bother worrying about any of it until you're within a couple years of receiving your DVM. Everyone (admissions committees, people filling residency positions, potential employers) wants to see an applicant that has a broad range of experiences, so you might as well try to get involved with as many things as you can--you never know what you'll fall in love with until you try it.

 

[jkq202]

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[laurafinn]

Specializing is something I realllyy want to do. ... Aren't school advisors and professors supposed to help students onto a career path? Why don't these students know how to become a specialist? Isn't it quite common here in the US if that's what you want to do? Should I not go to Melbourne then...or could I go and apply to residencies back in the US? Would I have as good a chance of getting those residencies (if my grades were just as good) to someone who got their degree from the US?

You have to remember that many of the vet students outside North America are younger than the typical US vet student, and as such may be have a little less direction than American vet students.

At Massey, we just had a big career options seminar specifically for third years. But the information about internships and residencies is out there beforehand if you seek it. If Melbourne is at all similar to Massey, many of your lecturers will have done residencies in the US, and may provide you with insight into the process (I'm guessing the Melbourne web site has staff profiles with that kind of info if you're curious). Similarly, Melbourne may (or may not) have a staff mentor program, where you get matched up with a lecturer or researcher who can then serve as a kind of a guidance counselor.

I think, however, than Bill59 has some good points. Graduating from overseas, you will be a little more of an unknown, and it is harder to network when you're halfway around the world. You'll probably need to be a little more proactive than a comparable American student.