Realistic Salaries for Specialists

[WumboDebt]

Hello! I’m trying to do some research on different vet specialties, but I’m have difficulty getting salary info. The following if from myveterinaryjobboard.com “The most recent report from AVMA had salary breakdowns as follows: ophthalmology earning the highest at around $200,000, lab animal specialization earning around $170,000, pathology around $160,000, surgery around $130,000, radiology around $120,000, and theriogenology also around $120,000.”
These seem really high to me though?? Of course salary changes based on location and exp. but are these even remotely correct? What numbers have you heard?
Thanks!

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[WildZoo]

Those don't seem that high to me at all when you consider specialists go through several years of extra training making less than minimum wage. Like you mentioned, it's going to vary. Also depends on academia vs private practice.

Some examples from my school's database (numbers will probably be higher in private practice)
Ophthalmology - $165k
Radiology - $161k
Pathology - $162k
Surgery - $159k

 

[JaynaAli]

Those numbers for pathology are high for newly boarded people. They may be reasonable for someone in mid to late career but not someone just starting. There’s a thread on pathology salaries over in the vet forum but most people’s first jobs out of residency are in the 100-120 range. Diagnostics may go up to about 150 but sometimes you can earn more by reading extra cases. Research pathology positions usually pay the best but those jobs aren’t for everyone and are quite different than “normal” pathology.

For most clinical specialties it’s going to be different whether you go into academia or private practice. My resident friends going into private practice were expecting 150-175 bases with production bonuses and 4 day work weeks. In academia most associate professors or clinical track professors are going to get 110-140ish in my experience. Radiology is one with a big difference between academia and pp...that’s why academia has an issue retaining radiologists I think. One radiology resident told me he was expecting 250+ But I don’t know if that included extra telerads or anything. It’s important to remember that there’s always a bit of a supply and demand for specialists. Currently there’s a big demand for them and people can pretty much choose their location and set their salary. 8-10 years ago people struggled to find jobs. It ebbs and flows a bit.

Many specialty hospitals are in cities with higher cost of living too, which is going to influence salaries. But average non-specialist salaries are like 80-90s I think (maybe higher?) so it seems reasonable that someone who did 3-5 additional years of schooling making only 30,000-40,000 a year during that time would make more.

 

[PippyPony]

Many specialty hospitals are in cities with higher cost of living too, which is going to influence salaries. But average non-specialist salaries are like 80-90s I think (maybe higher?) so it seems reasonable that someone who did 3-5 additional years of schooling making only 30,000-40,000 a year during that time would make more.

Higher, depending on area. Offers in some areas for >$100k starting.

We have some private practice surgeons in this area making >$200k (word of mouth, not a published stat, so could be exaggerated).

Those salaries also are not high at all when you consider some people are leaving school >$400k in debt.

 

[PippyPony]

Nutrition is also a very high paying specialty; they often work in industry jobs which tend to be higher paying in general.

 

[JaynaAli]

Higher, depending on area. Offers in some areas for >$100k starting.

Yeah, that’s why I said average. Some will be higher and some will be lower.

Without knowing where someone lives it’s impossible to really truly compare salaries since there’s such wide ranges in cost of living across the country. 85,000 in Kansas City Missouri will probably go about as far as 165,000 in San Diego once you pay taxes and for your housing/other bills. You just have to do research for the specific areas you are considering living in and figure out what makes sense for you. I’m making plans to move to a much cheaper area soon and I’m excited...I can get a huge house on land for the same as the rent for my little apartment in my current city. Salary won’t change but it’ll go quite a bit farther.

 

[SocialStigma]

$130k would be very low for a surgeon in private practice (even a new grad), probably is about average for academia though. Like others have said, salaries will vary depending on COL in the area and academia vs. private practice. But for surgeons (small animal), academia probably averages around $100-150k for base salary and private practice around $180-300k. Surgeons in private practice also have the potential to make a lot more than their base salary since most of us are paid production as well.

 

[Minnerbelle]

Yeah, that’s why I said average. Some will be higher and some will be lower.

Without knowing where someone lives it’s impossible to really truly compare salaries since there’s such wide ranges in cost of living across the country. 85,000 in Kansas City Missouri will probably go about as far as 165,000 in San Diego once you pay taxes and for your housing/other bills. You just have to do research for the specific areas you are considering living in and figure out what makes sense for you. I’m making plans to move to a much cheaper area soon and I’m excited...I can get a huge house on land for the same as the rent for my little apartment in my current city. Salary won’t change but it’ll go quite a bit farther.

Haha... yeah my husband always laments the fact that I didn’t become a radiologist earning $200-300k just doing teleconsults remotely so that we could live somewhere warm with a low COL so that we could be living large!

 

[Minnerbelle]

$130k would be very low for a surgeon in private practice (even a new grad), probably is about average for academia though. Like others have said, salaries will vary depending on COL in the area and academia vs. private practice. But for surgeons (small animal), academia probably averages around $100-150k for base salary and private practice around $180-300k. Surgeons in private practice also have the potential to make a lot more than their base salary since most of us are paid production as well.

Yeah... if you are performing $9000 TPLOs in SF then you’ll be earning quite a bit! Though even $300k there would prob make you poorer than $150k in the vast majority of the country.

agreed that I can’t imagine a surgeon earning less than $180k in my area unless they were part time.

 

[allygator13]

Haha... yeah my husband always laments the fact that I didn’t become a radiologist earning $200-300k just doing teleconsults remotely so that we could live somewhere warm with a low COL so that we could be living large!

This + zero client communication is why radiology is the best 😁

 

[Minnerbelle]

This + zero client communication is why radiology is the best 😁

Lol and the noncommittal - “correlate with clinical signs. Repeat study and or pursue other imaging modalities advised if this isn’t helpful. K.thx.bye~”

 

[turnandburn]

Not sure about the others but I agree for surgery and radiology those seem low.

 

[allygator13]

Lol and the noncommittal - “correlate with clinical signs. Repeat study and or pursue other imaging modalities advised if this isn’t helpful. K.thx.bye~”

Radiographs in general are a screening tool and the more cases I see where we don't find anything, or something very minimal, on rads and find terrible lesions on more advanced imaging, the more it becomes apparent that rads just suck So a lot of times we can't be committal. Also don't have the patients in front of us and don't know nearly as much of their history as you so are relying on you guys to take what we say and apply it to your patient's clinical picture.

Also totally not saying this is you or anyone on this forum, but hard to be helpful and committal when we get histories like "ADR"

 

[PippyPony]

They just need to invent an imaging technique that sees down to a molecular level and also pairs with the pet's brain to translate meows

If the collars from Up were real, so many problems could be solved!

 

[Minnerbelle]

Radiographs in general are a screening tool and the more cases I see where we don't find anything, or something very minimal, on rads and find terrible lesions on more advanced imaging, the more it becomes apparent that rads just suck So a lot of times we can't be committal. Also don't have the patients in front of us and don't know nearly as much of their history as you so are relying on you guys to take what we say and apply it to your patient's clinical picture.

Also totally not saying this is you or anyone on this forum, but hard to be helpful and committal when we get histories like "ADR"

My comment wasn’t really a criticism, mostly just in jest ‘cause I’m jelly you don’t have to be committed to a client/patient until you get to a resolution. I totally get it. Rads sure have their limitations... like a lot of them. The reason why I wait for rad consults are usually because I don’t see anything of note and am hoping that someone with a special set of eyes will find a magical answer... knowing 95+% of the time that won’t be happening. Even with the perfect history, it doesn’t matter sometimes, rads are such a crapshoot as to whether they will be diagnostic or not. I don’t expect y’all to solve mysteries from a few images that just don’t tell the story. I was more going off of your comment that you have 0 client communications and how awesome that is.

When you say “dunno why dog is sick based on rads,” you can wash your hands of it and move on. Your part is done. The annoying thing about being attached to the client as the clinician is needing to brace for how they will respond when your diagnostics don’t take you very far. Some are understanding and get it. Others get pissed off no matter how much you prepped them for this outcome in advance. Trust me, what I tell clients is that *if we’re lucky* this $400 xray will help us make a decision, but there’s also a good chance it won’t show us much and that doesn’t mean your pet is in the clear. Even if they’re understanding, you still have a sick pet that you don’t know what to do with.

Also, I much prefer the noncommittal report vs. the short and definitive report that is WRONG. Especially when it’s clear the radiologist was in a hurry to just get through cases and didn’t read your history or clinical question, and didn’t bother to comment on other abnormalities on the rads. Thankfully that’s rare, but it’s the one time I get mad with a rad report. It gets really awkward because now you have a specialist saying X, and that’s a liability problem.

 

[Minnerbelle]

They just need to invent an imaging technique that sees down to a molecular level and also pairs with the pet's brain to translate meows

If the collars from Up were real, so many problems could be solved!

I’m pretty sure my dumb as a rock cat still wouldn’t be all that helpful even if you could read his mind.

 

[PippyPony]

I’m pretty sure my dumb as a rock cat still wouldn’t be all that helpful even if you could read his mind.

Fair... and tbh, based on how my dumb+naughty cat eats things faster when I try to take them out of his mouth, even if he could speak it would probably be "nuh-UH not telling" +/- "YOU'LL NEVER TAKE ME ALIVE"

 

[allygator13]

My comment wasn’t really a criticism, mostly just in jest ‘cause I’m jelly you don’t have to be committed to a client/patient until you get to a resolution. I totally get it. Rads sure have their limitations... like a lot of them. The reason why I wait for rad consults are usually because I don’t see anything of note and am hoping that someone with a special set of eyes will find a magical answer... knowing 95+% of the time that won’t be happening. Even with the perfect history, it doesn’t matter sometimes, rads are such a crapshoot as to whether they will be diagnostic or not. I don’t expect y’all to solve mysteries from a few images that just don’t tell the story. I was more going off of your comment that you have 0 client communications and how awesome that is.

When you say “dunno why dog is sick based on rads,” you can wash your hands of it and move on. Your part is done. The annoying thing about being attached to the client as the clinician is needing to brace for how they will respond when your diagnostics don’t take you very far. Some are understanding and get it. Others get pissed off no matter how much you prepped them for this outcome in advance. Trust me, what I tell clients is that *if we’re lucky* this $400 xray will help us make a decision, but there’s also a good chance it won’t show us much and that doesn’t mean your pet is in the clear. Even if they’re understanding, you still have a sick pet that you don’t know what to do with.

Also, I much prefer the noncommittal report vs. the short and definitive report that is WRONG. Especially when it’s clear the radiologist was in a hurry to just get through cases and didn’t read your history or clinical question, and didn’t bother to comment on other abnormalities on the rads. Thankfully that’s rare, but it’s the one time I get mad with a rad report. It gets really awkward because now you have a specialist saying X, and that’s a liability problem.

For sure. Out of curiosity, do you reach out to radiologists who are wrong for clarification or to give them feedback? I know as a future radiologist I will absolutely cherish any feedback or follow-up on cases. That's definitely the downside to telerad, limited case follow-up. At least in academia as a resident we get to see how cases progress and if we're lucky necropsies to tell us if we were right or wrong (and honestly, usually wrong lol).

 

[Minnerbelle]

For sure. Out of curiosity, do you reach out to radiologists who are wrong for clarification or to give them feedback? I know as a future radiologist I will absolutely cherish any feedback or follow-up on cases. That's definitely the downside to telerad, limited case follow-up. At least in academia as a resident we get to see how cases progress and if we're lucky necropsies to tell us if we were right or wrong (and honestly, usually wrong lol).

Yes. I absolutely do. It’s a liability issue for me otherwise, since I can’t ignore the specialist’s conclusion or withhold that info from the owner. The times I’ve done this, I called and asked for clarification, and it’s been “oh ****, sorry about that. It’s been a very busy night and I was trying to make sure you got your STAT report on time. I totally missed this” and the report was edited. I mean I get it, we’ve all been there when there were way more time sensitive cases than could be taken care of. But super stressful to be the one to receive such report.

 

[Minnerbelle]

also, if I have a case with a weird ending that the radiologist might be interested in, I’ll email them as well.

especially the zebra cases where it turns out that the rads did actually tell the story, but only in hindsight.

 

[stealthoscope]

My comment wasn’t really a criticism, mostly just in jest ‘cause I’m jelly you don’t have to be committed to a client/patient until you get to a resolution. I totally get it. Rads sure have their limitations... like a lot of them. The reason why I wait for rad consults are usually because I don’t see anything of note and am hoping that someone with a special set of eyes will find a magical answer... knowing 95+% of the time that won’t be happening. Even with the perfect history, it doesn’t matter sometimes, rads are such a crapshoot as to whether they will be diagnostic or not. I don’t expect y’all to solve mysteries from a few images that just don’t tell the story. I was more going off of your comment that you have 0 client communications and how awesome that is.

When you say “dunno why dog is sick based on rads,” you can wash your hands of it and move on. Your part is done. The annoying thing about being attached to the client as the clinician is needing to brace for how they will respond when your diagnostics don’t take you very far. Some are understanding and get it. Others get pissed off no matter how much you prepped them for this outcome in advance. Trust me, what I tell clients is that *if we’re lucky* this $400 xray will help us make a decision, but there’s also a good chance it won’t show us much and that doesn’t mean your pet is in the clear. Even if they’re understanding, you still have a sick pet that you don’t know what to do with.

Also, I much prefer the noncommittal report vs. the short and definitive report that is WRONG. Especially when it’s clear the radiologist was in a hurry to just get through cases and didn’t read your history or clinical question, and didn’t bother to comment on other abnormalities on the rads. Thankfully that’s rare, but it’s the one time I get mad with a rad report. It gets really awkward because now you have a specialist saying X, and that’s a liability problem.

Not a radiologist, but I also think they’re in a tough spot sometimes because GPs generally would like the radiologist to provide more conclusions / direction in the report (especially with something like a CT which cost the client thousands), whereas I’ve also seen CT reports that make a comment like “likely non-resectable” get destroyed by surgeons for not “staying in their lane”.