Specialties that do the least harm

BU Medical Sciences
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Winged Scapula said:
Often.

After all, those NDs ain't cheap.
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I can't believe the lady in that video actually had the onc surgeon do a breast biopsy and then she left telling him/her she had to go use the restroom and then placed the black salve in the OPEN biopsy site, believing that it would go directly to the cancer attack malignant cells. As the physician, I would have been pissed!! I mean why the **** do you come to a physician if you have all the answers already?
 
RJGOP said:
Jesus, that's disgusting. Crap like that pisses me off. I just hate those scams and I hate the scammers even more.
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You mean you don't believe a cancer is gone just bc "The bad smell had stopped to a great extent. The pus was very less"? I thought the "Whiff test" was somewhere in the breast cancer guidelines.
 
DermViser said:
You mean you don't believe a cancer is gone just bc "The bad smell had stopped to a great extent. The pus was very less"? I thought the "Whiff test" was somewhere in the breast cancer guidelines.
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Yeah, perhaps I'm just too thorough.
 
Yeah, homeopaths and similar "practitioners" are responsible for patient deaths.

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/new...877659069?nk=b653bb2381d831d86b97e4054166f6fc

^A coroner's investigation into her death is publicly available on the internet. I read the whole >100 page thing because I was giving a talk on the subject of homeopathy. I had to take emotional breaks from reading it. The document make me feel sick to my stomach at times. It was unbelievable how dire her situation got (bowel obstruction requiring emergency surgery, for instance), and the homeopath still told her not to accept any medical care because conventional medicine would interfere with the homeopathy, which she promised would cure her. So, no pain meds, no nothing. It was a horrifying read.
 
AspiringERMD said:
Yeah, homeopaths and similar "practitioners" are responsible for patient deaths.

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/new...877659069?nk=b653bb2381d831d86b97e4054166f6fc

^A coroner's investigation into her death is publicly available on the internet. I read the whole >100 page thing because I was giving a talk on the subject of homeopathy. I had to take emotional breaks from reading it. The document make me feel sick to my stomach at times. It was unbelievable how dire her situation got (bowel obstruction requiring emergency surgery, for instance), and the homeopath still told her not to accept any medical care because conventional medicine would interfere with the homeopathy, which she promised would cure her. So, no pain meds, no nothing. It was a horrifying read.
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This is what happens with BS like patient satisfaction, blah blah. Patients can't be told certain treatments are BS. For some reason, this alternative medicine/CAM stuff has been taken up by Family Medicine, as somehow valid, for some reason.
 
DermViser said:
This is what happens with BS like patient satisfaction, blah blah. Patients can't be told certain treatments are BS. For some reason, this alternative medicine/CAM stuff has been taken up by Family Medicine, as somehow valid, for some reason.
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Aware me on what an ND is. Is it a "naturopathic doctor"?? :0 I guess I haven't heard of one before. And "patient satisfaction" does seem like a BS measurement of physician efficacy.
 
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jb94mg said:
Aware me on what an ND is. I guess I haven't heard of one before. And "patient satisfaction" does seem like a BS measurement of physician efficacy.
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Naturopathic Doctor.
 
DermViser said:
This is what happens with BS like patient satisfaction, blah blah. Patients can't be told certain treatments are BS. For some reason, this alternative medicine/CAM stuff has been taken up by Family Medicine, as somehow valid, for some reason.
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What do you mean by CAM being taken up by Family Medicine? Is it now commonly taught in residencies or endorsed by their organizations? I find that hard to believe!
 
DermViser said:
Naturopathic Doctor.
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"Naturopathic medicine is considered replete with pseudoscientific, ineffective, unethical, and possibly dangerous practices." Do these people have MD's?
 
jb94mg said:
"Naturopathic medicine is considered replete with pseudoscientific, ineffective, unethical, and possibly dangerous practices." Do these people have MD's?
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No.
 
blackkrim said:
That's really distressing to see. These guys are actually drawing money from the NIH too? What the hell??
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I know. It's unbelievable, as it is not evidence-based. I mean, that description of homeopathy on Mayo's website is essentially a lie. "Minute"? Homeopathic solutions don't have any molecules of the original substance in it past about 25 dilutions, not to mention 400.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homeopathic_dilutions
 
AspiringERMD said:
I know. It's unbelievable, as it is not evidence-based. I mean, that description of homeopathy on Mayo's website is essentially a lie. "Minute"? Homeopathic solutions don't have any molecules of the original substance in it past about 25 dilutions, not to mention 400.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homeopathic_dilutions
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I completely defend the victims/patients in these situations, as I deeply despise the people who lie and scam without a hint of regret-However, i don't understand how some people can be so naive as to fall for these disgusting scams like the herbal treatment of breast cancer. I mean, it's not the Middle Ages- we have established greater means of patient treatment. Haven't we?
 
AspiringERMD said:
I know. It's unbelievable, as it is not evidence-based. I mean, that description of homeopathy on Mayo's website is essentially a lie. "Minute"? Homeopathic solutions don't have any molecules of the original substance in it past about 25 dilutions, not to mention 400.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homeopathic_dilutions
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I completely defend the victims/patients in these situations, as I deeply despise the people who lie and scam without a hint of regret-However, i don't understand how some people can be so naive as to fall for these disgusting scams like the herbal treatment of breast cancer. I mean, it's not the Middle Ages- we have established greater means of patient treatment. Haven't we?
 
RJGOP said:
I completely defend the victims/patients in these situations, as I deeply despise the people who lie and scam without a hint of regret-However, i don't understand how some people can be so naive as to fall for these disgusting scams like the herbal treatment of breast cancer. I mean, it's not the Middle Ages- we have established greater means of patient treatment. Haven't we?
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Anti-vaxers exist too. People are REALLY dumb, gullible, paranoid, and don't know the first thing about medicine.

Here's a FB page with fun anti-vaxer screenshots... it's enough to make me want to ragequit the Internet. https://www.facebook.com/pages/Things-anti-vaxers-say/656716804343725
 
Sorry, I didn't mean to post that twice.
 
Winged Scapula said:
There are some that do; boggles the mind. The only way I could understand it would be if they were a total shyster and were just doing it for the money. Twisted but I could understand that better than believing some of that crap.
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So are they MDs who have a practice and then hock their alternative tx products, or do they only do/sell alternative tx? I imagine the former if they have an MD and do naturopathy.
 
RJGOP said:
I completely defend the victims/patients in these situations, as I deeply despise the people who lie and scam without a hint of regret-However, i don't understand how some people can be so naive as to fall for these disgusting scams like the herbal treatment of breast cancer. I mean, it's not the Middle Ages- we have established greater means of patient treatment. Haven't we?
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The same ones who are against vaccination:
http://thedailyshow.cc.com/videos/g1lev1/an-outbreak-of-liberal-idiocy
 
DermViser said:
I can't believe the lady in that video actually had the onc surgeon do a breast biopsy and then she left telling him/her she had to go use the restroom and then placed the black salve in the OPEN biopsy site, believing that it would go directly to the cancer attack malignant cells. As the physician, I would have been pissed!! I mean why the **** do you come to a physician if you have all the answers already?
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Don't worry, she would probably sue the surgeon for the resulting infection as well.....
 
DermViser said:
So are they MDs who have a practice and then hock their alternative tx products, or do they only do/sell alternative tx? I imagine the former if they have an MD and do naturopathy.
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There's this guy (who I suspect never finished an MD residency by his description of his training): http://www.humanhealthspecialists.com/about/scottsdale-naturopathic-doctors/

This psychiatrist:
http://www.drpampappas.com

http://www.drbruceshelton.com

http://deansilvermd.com

http://www.holisticresources.org/nss-folder/hormonebalancingnatural/


http://www.wholehealthmd.com/me2/di...=Meet+Our+Team&type=AWHN_Team&mod=Home&tier=1

These guys are all over the place.
 
I'm a little late to the convo, but decedents aren't the only person you're concerned with in forensic path...
CherryRedDracul said:
In forensic pathology, you can't piss off patients if they're dead. Just sayin'.
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The dead don't necessarily complain, but their loved ones wholeheartedly do. Just by performing the basic tenets of your job (i.e. autopsies), you may be trampling all over the decedent's cultural beliefs. It's not risky in terms of life or death situations (you've already avoided that drama), but there are numerous downsides/risks in this field. There have been numerous lawsuits against pathologists and ME offices when the manner of death is unsightly to the decedent's loved ones, suicides in particular. Everything in medicine screams risk to me though. While forensic path seems like a semi-calm field, it comes with it's own delightful quirks.
 
meowfish6868 said:
I'm a little late to the convo, but decedents aren't the only person you're concerned with in forensic path...


The dead don't necessarily complain, but their loved ones wholeheartedly do. Just by performing the basic tenets of your job (i.e. autopsies), you may be trampling all over the decedent's cultural beliefs. It's not risky in terms of life or death situations (you've already avoided that drama), but there are numerous downsides/risks in this field. There have been numerous lawsuits against pathologists and ME offices when the manner of death is unsightly to the decedent's loved ones, suicides in particular. Everything in medicine screams risk to me though. While forensic path seems like a semi-calm field, it comes with it's own delightful quirks.
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I shadowed an ME for few days and its seems like the worst parts of their job are their court days, and when they get phone calls from funeral homes about the body not being viewable. They attended school for medicine not mortuary science; their idea of what's "viewable" is likely different from yours.
 
WillburCobb said:
I shadowed an ME for few days and its seems like the worst parts of their job are their court days, and when they get phone calls from funeral homes about the body not being viewable. They attended school for medicine not mortuary science; their idea of what's "viewable" is likely different from yours.
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I work at an ME's office for years. I saw decedents that would have been in perfect shape for a open casket viewing dissected to the point that it would not longer be acceptable. These examinations were justified on some cases, but weren't on others.

P.S. I'm well aware that BC FPs go through 9 years of medical training, as opposed to "mortuary science". That does not exempt them from respecting the decedents they exam. Some complaints are outrageous, but willingly disregarding family members' objections and cultural beliefs is disgusting.

Please tell me how your few days in shadowing a forensic pathologist made you an expert in all things bad at an ME's office.
 
meowfish6868 said:
I work at an ME's office for years. I saw decedents that would have been in perfect shape for a open casket viewing dissected to the point that it would not longer be acceptable. These examinations were justified on some cases, but weren't on others.

P.S. I'm well aware that BC FPs go through 9 years of medical training, as opposed to "mortuary science". That does not exempt them from respecting the decedents they exam. Some complaints are outrageous, but willingly disregarding family members' objections and cultural beliefs is disgusting.

Please tell me how your few days in shadowing a forensic pathologist made you an expert in all things bad at an ME's office.
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At no point did I say was an expert. Families were notified as soon as possible regarding what would be done. 99% of the time a craniotomy and basic Y incision were done, which left the body viewable; it was always the cause of death that caused issues with viewability and what varying funeral were willing to work with that caused issues (some are MUCH better than others). Also, using your same logic, as a pre-med you aren't in a position to determine what is, and what isn't justified when it comes to a forensic autopsy. Yes one should respect a family's beliefs, and a respectable physician will do so. However, depending on the circumstances surrounding the death there's only so much the pathologist can do to honor the family's requests - and this is where the court gets involved and things can get messy.
 
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WillburCobb said:
At no point did I say was an expert. Families were notified as soon as possible regarding what would be done. 99% of the time a craniotomy and basic Y incision were done, which left the body viewable; it was always the cause of death that caused issues with viewability and what varying funeral were willing to work with that caused issues (some are MUCH better than others). Also, using your same logic, as a pre-med you aren't in a position to determine what is, and what isn't justified when it comes to a forensic autopsy. Yes one should respect a family's beliefs, and a respectable physician will do so. However, depending on the circumstances surrounding the death there's only so much the pathologist can do to honor the family's requests - and this is where the court gets involved and things can get messy.
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I can't go into details about why I know it is unjustified or at the very least unethical. You're completely right that extensive trauma is typically prevents families from having an open casket as a burial option, but other dissections can severely alter the remains. Not all families use funeral homes and using said dissections on these cases can be very troubling for the families.

On another note, I apologize for being snarky!
 
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