Specialty guarantee in contract

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IgD

The Lorax
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What do you think about having specialty training written into the HPSP contract? For example, a 4th year student signs a contract for straight-through training in dermatology or general surgery with no chance of a GMO tour.

We could have a matching process before the civilian match. HPSP applicants would be notified if they matched or not and could make an educated decision about whether or not to take the scholarship.

This would make the positions highly sought after.
 
What do you think about having specialty training written into the HPSP contract? For example, a 4th year student signs a contract for straight-through training in dermatology or general surgery with no chance of a GMO tour.

We could have a matching process before the civilian match. HPSP applicants would be notified if they matched or not and could make an educated decision about whether or not to take the scholarship.

This would make the positions highly sought after.

It will never happen.

Ed
 
We could have a matching process before the civilian match.

Not sure what you're getting at here. We do have a matching process before the civilian match.

I'm pretty sure that your idea is a really bad one. I had no clue what specialty I wanted until the end of MSIII year; most students change their mind at least once. Instead of getting upset about the current system, everyone would be upset about being tied down to internal medicine when they really want to be a surgeon (and vice versa).
 
I'm just not sure how this would solve any of the problems with military medicine. It seems like the main conflict in military medicine right now is that the military needs basic, GMO type primary care physicians and Doctors don't want to be basic GMO type primary care physicians. What the military needs is either an alternative to GMOs, or a way to make people want to take those GMO slots. Guarenteeing people slots in competitive residencies doesn't fix any problems because the military never had any problems filling the competitive residencies anyway.
 
I'm just not sure how this would solve any of the problems with military medicine. It seems like the main conflict in military medicine right now is that the military needs basic, GMO type primary care physicians and Doctors don't want to be basic GMO type primary care physicians. What the military needs is either an alternative to GMOs, or a way to make people want to take those GMO slots. Guarenteeing people slots in competitive residencies doesn't fix any problems because the military never had any problems filling the competitive residencies anyway.

Agree. The problem is that GMO primary care style medicine is boring and unfulfilling, with no opportunity for advancement of your skills and likely atrophy. If the military needed to make these slots attractive, they would have done so already. The fact that they have us by the short and curlies means that they can tell us where we go and what we do. Hopefully the pipeline will dry up in the next few years and there will be a need to incentivize an operational tour. However, I feel that this will never happen because accurate information about the lying, cheating, dishonest recruiting of med students is not widespread. They will continue to dupe enough naive students to fill half of the requirement, and half is good enough.
 
What do you think about having specialty training written into the HPSP contract? For example, a 4th year student signs a contract for straight-through training in dermatology or general surgery with no chance of a GMO tour.

We could have a matching process before the civilian match. HPSP applicants would be notified if they matched or not and could make an educated decision about whether or not to take the scholarship.

do you mean fourth year med student or college student? It would make no sense for college students b/c they don't have the experience to make that decision. For example, lets say you wanted gen surg, but then rotated on gen surg and hated it? Also, how will residency programs pick applicants if they have to pick people before they've even started med school?

If it was 4th year med students, well the army already signs continuous training contracts for most specialties.
 
What do you think about having specialty training written into the HPSP contract? For example, a 4th year student signs a contract for straight-through training in dermatology or general surgery with no chance of a GMO tour.

We could have a matching process before the civilian match. HPSP applicants would be notified if they matched or not and could make an educated decision about whether or not to take the scholarship.

This would make the positions highly sought after.

There is a program similar to this idea. Last year there was a half year scholarship approved. The way it would work is a fourth year med student could apply to the match. They would fill out the application and go through the Navy match. If they got the internship they wanted, they could sign for the last semester of school, get the $20K signing bonus, have the last semester of tuition and fees paid, and get the stipend until graduation.

If they did not get what they wanted, they could walk away and stay with the civilian match. If they did, and signed with the bonus they would have a 4 year minimun service obligation.

There would be no guarantee beyond internship. At this time I can't see giving these students any advantage over students currently in the program. Would not be fair.
 
I think one of the biggest issues facing military medicine is recruiting and retention. How are the HPSP scholarships doing this year?

Just to clarify, I was talking about allowing MSIV's to apply for the match and then decide whether or not they want to join based on the results. The part I left out is the military should retroactively pay for their medical education and the recipient would incur a 4 year payback after they complete their residency.

I think this could work for HPSP but what about USUHS? I think USUHS students would participate in this match but obviously would not have the option to walk away. Maybe this is a fair trade off since USUHS students are compensated in other ways. For example they are paid more while in school.
 
Just to clarify, I was talking about allowing MSIV's to apply for the match and then decide whether or not they want to join based on the results. The part I left out is the military should retroactively pay for their medical education and the recipient would incur a 4 year payback after they complete their residency.

I did not think about this at first, but I see how it could be unfair to HPSP students who sign on as first years, like NavyFP says. If an MSIV accepts the scholarship with a residency garantee, would this affect the HPSP students who sign on earlier since they are not garanteed the residency of their choice? Maybe accepting civilian applicants with the military applicants, but if it is stated on a civilians application that he will only accept a certain position, there has got to be some bias on the selection committee's part to increase numbers. Unless this means more deferrments for the HPSP students who want them, but there might be a lopsided effect from what the military needs and what specialties are sought after. Or perhaps availible military positions are open to non-HPSP/UHSUS applicants after the military match, but then there is always the possibility of not filling all the residency slots.

I could see how the primary care programs and positions in the military could appeal to anyone going into these fields, and from this board, it seems that this is what is needed since this is generally what the GMO does. Some of my classmates say they considered the military, but some of their concerns (aside from being shot at) include staying with their families, the PT, a physical disqualification, frequent moves, and deployments. Would it be possible to try to attract this population who is committed to primary care, but perhaps cator to their concerns? Perhaps allow them to sign a contract to work at a certain place? Maybe with shorter or no deployments? Or a garanteed state side position that does not relocate for the length of the contract? Then again, would the more ideal billets be taken by this group?

As far as recruitment, I know some people who got disqualified for reasons that might prevent them from running around with a gun in Iraq, but would not necessarily prevent them from being good physicians in the military. Two of my current classmates looked at the scholarship and one was turned away because she is dyslexic and another because she has scoliosis. One of my friends in college had a shoulder that could not handle push-ups. I was rejected by the army because of my weight being disproportionate to my height, in spite of the fact that I actually had less than 18% body fat at that time. How can you justify turning away a perfectly good physician who wants to serve in the military for reasons like this, especially considering there is a shortage? If it really is that big a deal, how about some way to not commission these students, but contract them to work for the service?

Or perhaps increasing the retention of military physicians. This site would give me the impression that the paperwork, the pay, and people not getting what they want are the major issues. Anyone know how to fix that? Was I the only person who signed knowing that my job was going to be based on the needs of the navy and I was going to have a pay cut and did not really care? Maybe there is some way to change the pay issue? I guess I was not aware of a lot of the other bull that makes it difficult for doctors to do their jobs, but maybe there is a large-scale movement that can somehow change all this?

Sorry...im bored. RugbyJC for President, 2024.
 
Just to clarify, I was talking about allowing MSIV's to apply for the match and then decide whether or not they want to join based on the results. The part I left out is the military should retroactively pay for their medical education and the recipient would incur a 4 year payback after they complete their residency.

If you go FAP, this is more or less where you end up, if you use your FAP payments to pay off loans. Of course if you paid out-of-state tuition, dollars don't equal out, but it's in the ballpark.

The only difference between the FAP and your proposal is that FAP applicants can't apply to the military match. And I don't think that military residency programs want a new flood of applicants in hard to match specialties (i.e. the only kind of applicants who would risk this approach) when most would, at best, rank the military programs at the bottom on the list.
 
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