SRNA "residents" make me want to scream

[DreamLover]

I just wanted to rant on this topic again today because there is an SRNA training program where I work and just as my residency training location (all the way across the country) they continue to introduce themselves as the "Resident Nurse Anesthetist" and I can't STAND it.

I'm not "officially" responsible for their education as it falls upon certain CRNAs who have faculty positions in said school to do the teaching but it is inevitable since they end up in my rooms regularly. Yes, some are much better than others but now that the DNAP is in full swing, this enemy in our back yard is encroaching more and more everyday.

I said something last week to the CRNA in my room who instructed a brand new SRNA to introduce them self as the "resident" that I felt it was flat out misleading and she came back with the response, "well that's what they are, S R N A, resident". Part of me did enjoy informing her that the R stands for "registered" just like in her title. Sadly...she really believed what she was telling me.

This is a constant battle that everyone must fight, as the lines become more blurred every year...especially once all the DNAPs start to flood the market.

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[jwk]

she came back with the response, "well that's what they are, S R N A, resident". Part of me did enjoy informing her that the R stands for "registered" just like in her title. .

Did she say what the "S" stood for?

 

[Spinach Dip]

 

[inmyslumber]

Inform the SNA that using the term "resident" is (intentionally?) misleading in a hospital setting. If pressed, tell the SNA that he/she was misinformed by the CRNA.

This could easily happen at my Hospital. If I hear about it, I will respond as above.

 

[DreamLover]

Inform the SNA that using the term "resident" is (intentionally?) misleading in a hospital setting. If pressed, tell the SNA that he/she was misinformed by the CRNA.

This could easily happen at my Hospital. If I hear about it, I will respond as above.

They are instructed by the heads of their programs to introduce themselves this way. It is intentional...misleading or not. I have brought this up before, talked to the SRNAs and CRNAs etc...it doesn't seem to matter what my opinion is, because it continues to happen...

They have an agenda. They aren't misrepresenting themselves accidentally.

I will not stop correcting them, but they will not stop introducing themselves that way. I wish it really were as easy as telling them not to do so, but it's a much deeper issue.

 

[IanMcGalt]

They are instructed by the heads of their programs to introduce themselves this way. It is intentional...misleading or not. I have brought this up before, talked to the SRNAs and CRNAs etc...it doesn't seem to matter what my opinion is, because it continues to happen...

They have an agenda. They aren't misrepresenting themselves accidentally.

I will not stop correcting them, but they will not stop introducing themselves that way. I wish it really were as easy as telling them not to do so, but it's a much deeper issue.

Everybody wants to pretend to be a doctor. Scrub trainees are residents too.

 

[turnupthegas]

We have an 2 NP's at my hospital that are the only one's whom have Doctor written on their badge. The chiefs of the departments, junior and senior attendings, and residents are all MD/DO. Completely ridiculous and offensive. Everyone wants to be a doctor without putting in the work or the time. Bastards.

 

[Sublimazing]

This seems intentionally misleading. I can understand why you'd be frustrated.

 

[DreamLover]

Honestly...Physicians are totally villainized in today's media for all that is wrong in healthcare, you'd think they'd want to separate themselves from that, but nope...the more they blur the lines, the better for their cause.

If the patients can't tell the difference then what is the difference?

It's definitely taking advantage of the patients due to their vulnerability and being in an unfamiliar hospital setting. In Preop holding, I walk up to my patient, my badge is visible, I introduce myself as Dr. X and explain that I will be providing their anesthesia care and sure enough...by the time I finish their IV and exam and ask my questions...they feel better and thank me and let me know how important nurses are in medicine today. Total fail. (Although 99% of that is most likely due to the fact that I am female and females are only nurses)

 

[greenlion]

I introduce myself as Dr. X and explain that I will be providing their anesthesia care and sure enough...by the time I finish their IV and exam and ask my questions...they feel better and thank me and let me know how important nurses are in medicine today. Total fail.

Ugh. That's very demoralizing. Maybe anesthesiologists should start introducing themselves as "your physician" instead.
Maybe:
Hi I'm your PHYSICIAN Dr. X and I'll be IN CHARGE of your anesthesia today...

Meanwhile, if your hospital trains real residents then complain to ACGME (or AOA). They may or may not care.

There was a bill last year in Florida (died in the Florida senate) that would have made it a 3rd degree felony for nurses to introduce themselves as doctor to patients without immediately qualifying that they're not a "medical doctor". (SB 612: Health Care Practitioners) Your state may or may not have some weaker regulations you can point to.

 

[BuzzPhreed]

Just ask them this. "Have you ever slept in a hospital as part of your professional duties?"

When they respond with the obvious "no" (never met a SRNA who took overnight call) then tell them that that are not now nor have they ever been a "resident". And tell them that the next time they introduce themselves as that you are going to tell the patient they are lying.

 

[psychbender]

The students at the program here started referring to themselves as residents. The first time that happened in front of me, I took him aside and explained how misleading that was. Turns out, one or more of their staff were instructing them to do that. After I got the other anesthesiologists aware and on board, that practice promptly stopped.

 

[BuzzPhreed]

They are not residents. They are not even interns. If you hear this being bandied about at your institution, put a stop to it.

Definition: A resident is a physician in training who has completed at least one year of residency. A resident has a medical license and is a physician, but is not board certified in a specialty.
Residency, including the first year during which a resident is called an intern, can last for 3 to 7 years, depending upon the specialty. Residents can practice medicine, but they do so under the observation of a fully qualified doctor.

http://surgery.about.com/od/glossaryofsurgicalterms/g/SurgeryResident.htm

 

[deleted126335]

They are not residents. They are not even interns. If you hear this being bandied about at your institution, put a stop to it.



http://surgery.about.com/od/glossaryofsurgicalterms/g/SurgeryResident.htm

Obviously not everybody considers this interpretation authoritative.

 

[DermViser]

We have an 2 NP's at my hospital that are the only one's whom have Doctor written on their badge. The chiefs of the departments, junior and senior attendings, and residents are all MD/DO. Completely ridiculous and offensive. Everyone wants to be a doctor without putting in the work or the time. Bastards.

What's worse is that the chiefs of the dept. and attendings allow this to happen.

 

[Mman]

Just ask them this. "Have you ever slept in a hospital as part of your professional duties?"

When they respond with the obvious "no" (never met a SRNA who took overnight call) then tell them that that are not now nor have they ever been a "resident". And tell them that the next time they introduce themselves as that you are going to tell the patient they are lying.

You need to change your definition then. My wife did about 4 months of night call as an SRNA. Some programs do, some don't.

I introduce myself to the patient as Dr. So and So from Anesthesia and I'm in charge of getting you asleep, waking you up, and keeping you safe in between. If I have an SRNA in our room for that day I'll introduce them as a nurse that is studying anesthesia with us today. If they try to introduce them as resident I will tell them they are not a resident and I will tell their program director to please instruct them to stop lying to patients or they will be removed from the OR for the duration of the day.

 

[jwk]

The students at the program here started referring to themselves as residents. The first time that happened in front of me, I took him aside and explained how misleading that was. Turns out, one or more of their staff were instructing them to do that. After I got the other anesthesiologists aware and on board, that practice promptly stopped.

We take a ton of AA students and 1-2 nurse anesthesia students at any given time - we are a clinical site, not "the program", and there are no "program" people on-site (thankfully). When the student and I go get the patient for the OR, I introduce them as Mr/Miss Smith, an anesthesia student. I make sure the patient is clear on the roles of anyone providing their anesthesia care.

We would have absolutely zero tolerance in our group for nurse anesthesia "residents" and will have absolutely zero tolerance for "Dr. nurse anesthetist" at whatever point we hire a DNAP CRNA. I think that would be a non-starter - you call yourself Doctor, you don't start working for us.

 

[jetproppilot]

I just wanted to rant on this topic again today because there is an SRNA training program where I work and just as my residency training location (all the way across the country) they continue to introduce themselves as the "Resident Nurse Anesthetist" and I can't STAND it.

I'm not "officially" responsible for their education as it falls upon certain CRNAs who have faculty positions in said school to do the teaching but it is inevitable since they end up in my rooms regularly. Yes, some are much better than others but now that the DNAP is in full swing, this enemy in our back yard is encroaching more and more everyday.

I said something last week to the CRNA in my room who instructed a brand new SRNA to introduce them self as the "resident" that I felt it was flat out misleading and she came back with the response, "well that's what they are, S R N A, resident". Part of me did enjoy informing her that the R stands for "registered" just like in her title. Sadly...she really believed what she was telling me.

This is a constant battle that everyone must fight, as the lines become more blurred every year...especially once all the DNAPs start to flood the market.

I posted about this exact subject years ago.
Your thoughts are relevant.
It drives me crazy too!

 

[DreamLover]

I posted about this exact subject years ago.
Your thoughts are relevant.
It drives me crazy too!

I know...I keep fighting the fight, but their agenda is SO in my face, it's really just been extra bad recently.

I enjoy working with 99% of the CRNAs I work with. I think the team care model is actually a very safe way to practice, but the chip on their shoulders is getting bigger every day.

I just hope they don't wear us down...people have to put forth the effort and make sure they stand their ground.

I wish the ASA was doing more for us...I feel like we are losing more each year. I still give to the ASAPAC but I'm definitely getting frustrated.

 

[BuzzPhreed]

It's a rhetorical battle. And they are winning. It started with calling us "MDAs" and it is ongoing with their students now calling themselves residents.

When is the FU- BU- going to STOP! Or, when are WE going to stop it!

Fund the ASAPAC and their lawyers. We just need to start aggressively lobbying and getting legislation passed, and then start continuously taking those M************ F*********** to court!

 

[europeman]

I'm a surgeon who has brought related topics like this up before.

Having a crna student or post graduated person getting additional training refer to themselves as a "resident" is so insulting to me. That's so absolutely ridiculous I don't even know where to start

 

[sevoflurane]

I just wanted to rant on this topic again today because there is an SRNA training program where I work and just as my residency training location (all the way across the country) they continue to introduce themselves as the "Resident Nurse Anesthetist" and I can't STAND it.

I'm not "officially" responsible for their education as it falls upon certain CRNAs who have faculty positions in said school to do the teaching but it is inevitable since they end up in my rooms regularly. Yes, some are much better than others but now that the DNAP is in full swing, this enemy in our back yard is encroaching more and more everyday.

I said something last week to the CRNA in my room who instructed a brand new SRNA to introduce them self as the "resident" that I felt it was flat out misleading and she came back with the response, "well that's what they are, S R N A, resident". Part of me did enjoy informing her that the R stands for "registered" just like in her title. Sadly...she really believed what she was telling me.

This is a constant battle that everyone must fight, as the lines become more blurred every year...especially once all the DNAPs start to flood the market.

I'm sorry you have to sit thorugh this type of behavior. Fight the good fight my friend.

 

[BuzzPhreed]

This is a constant battle that everyone must fight, as the lines become more blurred every year...especially once all the DNAPs start to flood the market.

At my temporary mistake of a job, there was a DNAP CRNA who used to just try to do cases without me. When she occasionally snuck one through, I just didn't sign her charts. I documented what she did. She had to answer for that. Not me. Who do you think the practice supported though? Any wonder why I left?

And do you think they're going to make it harder to get a DNAP? No. Nurses like to bitch. And plenty of them are bitching already about that pathway. No. It's going to get easier. So much for not diluting the talent.

 

[DreamLover]

At my temporary mistake of a job, there was a DNAP CRNA who used to just try to do cases without me. When she occasionally snuck one through, I just didn't sign her charts. I documented what she did. She had to answer for that. Not me. Who do you think the practice supported though? Any wonder why I left?

And do you think they're going to make it harder to get a DNAP? No. Nurses like to bitch. And plenty of them are bitching already about that pathway. No. It's going to get easier. So much for not diluting the talent.

The DNAP is now the only pathway to CRNA, the specialty has done away with the Masters degree. Following the likes of Physical therapists and pharmacists. Everyone is a doctor now, but not a physician.

The good outcomes that are quoted by the AANA to support solo practice are mainly team care model numbers that include a Physician Anesthesiologist. This is glazed over and apparently not relevant in their argument.

The irony is that they are definitely threatened by the AAs emerging into the market and I have heard many times how CRNAs don't feel that AAs are as qualified and have less clinical experience than they do and shouldn't have the same scope of practice. I can hardly keep from rolling my eyes in exasperation when I hear such things.

Honestly, people should educated themselves about AAs and support them. They are PAs that don't exist without a physician. They are certified and governed by our ABA. They are well trained as an assistant and never as an independent practitioner.

 

[wjs010]

But, but... Doctors make a good living and so are therefore of course evil.

 

[BuzzPhreed]

The DNAP is now the only pathway to CRNA, the specialty has done away with the Masters degree. Following the likes of Physical therapists and pharmacists. Everyone is a doctor now, but not a physician.

I was not actually aware that this was universally true. Are you certain? And how does this affect the tens of thousands of CRNAs out there currently without a DNAP who are practicing and will continue to practice for the foreseeable future?

Otherwise I agree with supporting the AA movement. I also agree that once we have marshaled enough AAs into the workforce, we should totally cut loose the CRNAs. Then we'll see what happens.

 

[jwk]

The DNAP is now the only pathway to CRNA, the specialty has done away with the Masters degree. Following the likes of Physical therapists and pharmacists. Everyone is a doctor now, but not a physician.

The good outcomes that are quoted by the AANA to support solo practice are mainly team care model numbers that include a Physician Anesthesiologist. This is glazed over and apparently not relevant in their argument.

The irony is that they are definitely threatened by the AAs emerging into the market and I have heard many times how CRNAs don't feel that AAs are as qualified and have less clinical experience than they do and shouldn't have the same scope of practice. I can hardly keep from rolling my eyes in exasperation when I hear such things.

Honestly, people should educated themselves about AAs and support them. They are PAs that don't exist without a physician. They are certified and governed by our ABA. They are well trained as an assistant and never as an independent practitioner.

Thanks for your support of AA's. Just to clarify a couple things...

The DNAP won't be required until 2025. In the meantime, the master's degree CRNA programs will continue, with their growth unabated by any common sense. Even current CRNA's are bitching about over-production. Unlike an AA school, which MUST be tied in with an academic anesthesia department, a CRNA program can pretty much pop up in any nursing school anywhere that can grant a Master's degree. There MAY be an actual DNAP program up and running where students actually ATTEND classes, but the first several that became available are online only. There is no increased clinical education component and no hands-on training, but lots of "nurse anesthesia theory", political indoctrination. and "learning how to read a study to enhance one's practice".

AA's are analogous to PA's, but we are a separate and distinct profession with our own academic programs, certification, and licensing. We are NOT "certified and governed by our ABA". The certification process, with exam and continuing education requirements (the first of the three types of anesthesia providers to require both) is through the NCCAA (National Commission for Certification of Anesthesiologist Assistants), with the exam administered through the NBME. AA scope of practice is determined by state law, which is generally something along the lines of "administers anesthesia under the direction of an anesthesiologist". That definition is pretty broad by design, and leaves local scope of practice in the hands of the attending anesthesiologist and hospital medical staff policies where they belong. In some practices, AA's place invasive monitoring lines including Swans (the original AA concept was to create a provider well-versed in "new technology"), as well as do regional anesthesia. In other practices, they may do one but not the other, or might not do either. While we are always working with anesthesiologists, we are not required to have them physically present in the same OR at all times. Most practices run 1:2, 1:3, or 1:4, depending on the types of cases, and most that use AA's simply follow TEFRA guidelines for all cases at all times.

 

[deleted480308]

the largest crna program in town is still only a masters, entry requirements are a bachelors (that doesn't have to be a nursing degree, you can have an associate in nursing and a bachelors in something else), a 300 GRE and a year of crit care nursing experience.

7 semesters, not all of which have clinical time....and you're paid for knocking people out

any time my family goes under...there will be a physician at the helm

 

[SouthernSurgeon]

I'm a surgeon who has brought related topics like this up before.

Having a crna student or post graduated person getting additional training refer to themselves as a "resident" is so insulting to me. That's so absolutely ridiculous I don't even know where to start

As a surgeon, and a resident, it's outrageous.

If, when I'm an attending, I hear a SRNA student introduce themselves to my patient as a resident, I will tell them they aren't welcome in my case.

 

[deleted480308]

As a surgeon, and a resident, it's outrageous.

If, when I'm an attending, I hear a SRNA student introduce themselves to my patient as a resident, I will tell them they aren't welcome in my case.

I think backup from surgeons (as the cash cows of the hospital) is the real key to squashing that mess

 

[LiamNeesons]

I think backup from surgeons (as the cash cows of the hospital) is the real key to squashing that mess

Why does it have to stop with surgeons? I'm interested in EM at the moment. How realistic is it for me to say I won't work at a hospital that employees CRNAs? Are there any hospitals with no physician anesthesiologists?

 

[IanMcGalt]

Why does it have to stop with surgeons? I'm interested in EM at the moment. How realistic is it for me to say I won't work at a hospital that employees CRNAs? Are there any hospitals with no physician anesthesiologists?

The problem isn't employing crnas. The problem is unsupervised crnas and crnas misrepresenting themselves as doctors- which is assault on patients since the consent is not informed.

 

[SouthernSurgeon]

Why does it have to stop with surgeons? I'm interested in EM at the moment. How realistic is it for me to say I won't work at a hospital that employees CRNAs? Are there any hospitals with no physician anesthesiologists?

I mean, I guess you could...

But the buy-in from relatively unrelated fields is likely to be quite low. If anesthesiologists want to try and rally support, the surgeons who work with them day-in and day-out are the obvious target.

 

[deleted480308]

Why does it have to stop with surgeons? I'm interested in EM at the moment. How realistic is it for me to say I won't work at a hospital that employees CRNAs? Are there any hospitals with no physician anesthesiologists?

While you can totally make that decision, a lot of hospitals contract with EM groups and your group would have to be willing to lose the contract to make that demand. The important note is that having an ED is what brings in EM patients, not the EM group themselves. The surgeons produce patients by bringing theirs with them...surgeons are literally money makers.

I have seen a few surgeons say they refuse to operate at hospitals with unserpervised CRNAs. Not only due to the safety of their patients but the murky likelihood that the surgeon then becomes the defacto medical authority in the room and might be liable as the "supervising physician" for a midlevel in a field that isn't even their area of training. If the anesthesiologists are looking for another specialty to back them up, the surgical fields are the most likely choice.

 

[Mman]

I think backup from surgeons (as the cash cows of the hospital) is the real key to squashing that mess

The real key is at the local level of medical staff offices and medical staff bylaws. Our medical staff has a rule that non physicians (except podiatrists and dentists) are prohibited from referring to themselves as doctor within the hospital to a patient. Since everybody's clinical privileges including NPs and CRNAs and everybody else goes through the medical staff office, they can ultimately lose their hospital privileges if they do not comply. We've yet to have an issue.

 

[BuzzPhreed]

The real key is at the local level of medical staff offices and medical staff bylaws. Our medical staff has a rule that non physicians (except podiatrists and dentists) are prohibited from referring to themselves as doctor within the hospital to a patient. Since everybody's clinical privileges including NPs and CRNAs and everybody else goes through the medical staff office, they can ultimately lose their hospital privileges if they do not comply. We've yet to have an issue.

Yes. This is correct. And the physicians in the hospital have a lot of power to protect their fellow physicians. Also they have skin in the game. Because CRNPs and midwives are pulling the same crap in their respective fields.

 

[deleted126335]

Yes. This is correct. And the physicians in the hospital have a lot of power to protect their fellow physicians. Also they have skin in the game. Because CRNPs and midwives are pulling the same crap in their respective fields.

The problem is when a large number of the medical staff become employees of the healthcare system, fear and desire for advancement cause those physicians in leadership roles to acquiesce to the desires of administration. Administration who have embraced mid level expansion wholeheartedly.

 

[DreamLover]

It's true not all programs (since there are SO many) have eliminated masters for DNAP yet but several that I know of have transitioned prior to the 2025 deadline. The current CRNAs will be grandfathered into the system. I know several who are pursuing their DNAP-online of course- thus the doctorate does not include any additional clinical experience.

It's already a well documented fact of the amount of clinical time an MD trains compared to a CRNA (10s of thousands of hours more) but that's part of their argument...they don't feel it's necessary.

But in all of this, my argument is not for their termination or elimination, it's for defining appropriate scopes of practice and defining the successful team care model when needed. The current campaign for the elimination of the need for a physician anesthesiologist and the rights to practice equally and independently need to be quelled and squished by practicing and future physician providers before it gets more out of hand than it already is.

 

[manda33]

.

 

[deleted480308]

In the end, what matters is the patient's experience while they put their trust in capable hands... and how they were made to feel during the process.

Patient satisfaction is what builds a business, but the reason that the distinction between a doctor and nurse is important is because that doctor has more training and knows more about how to keep you from dying. I like hamburgers and steaks, but no matter how good the hamburger is I don't get to call it a steak. I'm sorry that you had 2 doctors who you didn't think were nice, people should be nice. But when you become truly ill and your life is at risk, you will do much better with a rude doctor than a smiling nurse.

 

[B-Bone]

Not to be inflammatory, but from nothing more than the perspective of a patient (the people who put their trust in you for treatment), I prefer and often ask for a nurse practitioner over a doctor. “Everyone wants to be a doctor without putting in the work”… maybe. I have no experience with that. But any time I have seen an NP, I have experienced excellent bedside manner, patience while I explain both my symptoms and how I’m feeling as a whole, and a genuine desire to help me feel better. Very often, physicians who have “worked so hard” do not give that same kind of attention. I’ve have MD’s finish sentences for me, cut me off, and summarily dismiss real concerns I’ve had.

I’ll give you an example: I had a lumbar puncture at the beginning of the week. The procedure itself was smooth: in / out / done. But then two days later I got a headache that made it impossible for me to sit or stand without blinding pain. I called my physician… the one who’d “worked much harder” than an NP. He called me back about seven hours later – I get it, he’s busy. High pressure, high stress job that I’d know nothing about… I have a six month old, a house and a husband -- and a debilitating headache. My time is as valuable to me as his time is to him. I explained my symptoms, and he advised me to lie flat all day, and not to get up for any reason. I have six month old, a house and a husband… but I did as he advised. I drank coffee until I felt like I’d crawl out of my own skin, and so much fluid that I felt permanently sloshy.

Two days more had brought no improvement, and my baby had been with her grandparents for four days. I called the emergency after hours line… I was advised I’d get a call back within 30 minutes. Three HOURS later, I answered the phone and my hard working physician did not even wait for me to speak. He said (angrily) “You stood up too much today! Tomorrow, you need to lay down all day.” I hadn’t been on my feet at all—but he didn’t seem interested in hearing that, so I saw no reason to correct him.

This morning, I went to the ER and guess who treated me? One of those nurse practitioners who have the audacity to consider themselves doctors. The first thing she said to me was “I am so sorry you’re having such a rough time”. She ordered a blood patch, and while my back hurt for several hours afterward, I am still experiencing complete relief from the headache my physician couldn’t be bothered to treat.

Another experience with my GP, as fate would have it, had me vacillating between two different courses of action to treat acute anxiety. He became very agitated and finally snapped, “Well, you don’t seem to know what you want to do, and I have other patients I have to see today!” Of course I don’t know what I should do. I have anxiety; I’m not (nor could I even insulting claim to be) a doctor. That's why I went to see him. I quickly made a choice for medication (even though I had concerns that it would worsen the problem) and fled the office in tears. Now, I only see his daughter when I need to be treated at his practice. His daughter is warm and patient and always makes me feel welcome and unashamed to ask for help. All the things a doctor SHOULD do… and while any scripts she gives out read “Dr…”, she is a nurse practitioner... and thank God for them all.

So from a lay person’s perspective, I think the prestige and accolades and hard work sometimes make physicians lose sight of what they’re really meant to be doing. They are servants. They are healers. They are as fallible as anyone else—whatever work they’ve done for a title. In the end, what matters is the patient's experience while they put their trust in capable hands... and how they were made to feel during the process.

A little rant from a lowly patient.

Here are my quibbles with this story.
1. Who did the blood patch and actually fixed your problem? I imagine a physician.
2. One does not "order" a blood patch (or any other invasive procedure) and more than one "orders" a surgeon to perform a lap chole. One consults an expert physician who assesses the risks and benefits of a procedure before making a decision to proceed or not.
3. Some physicians are dinguses. Some have wonderful bedside manner. They all, however, have completed med school, residency, and likely board certification. They have been tested repeatedly and deemed experts in their field. When I get healthcare, I'm paying for that expert opinion, not to have a chummy conversation or commune on some spiritual level. One vascular surgeon I work with is an absolute son of a bitch, but he's far and away the best surgeon we've got. I can't stand to work with him, but if I had a ruptured AAA he's the man I'd want opening my belly. One of my partners is the weakest in the group by a wide margin, clinically speaking. However, she is extremely nice and likable and patients love her. She gets the most request cases. I wouldn't let her touch a family member with a 10 foot pole. If you prefer nice over effective (as much of America seems to) that's your prerogative, but just be prepared to deal with the outcomes.

That's my little rant.

 

[manda33]

.

 

[deleted126335]

You're likely right. But I'm far more likely to trust a caregiver who doesn't make me feel like I'm wasting their valuable time. Unfortunately, it's been more than two doctors, I was just trying to illustrate my point. I do agree, however, that no one (nurse or otherwise) should misrepresent themselves... this week's frustration has led me to rant where I really have no business ranting. And it isn't about being "nice" or being "mean"... it's about treating the patient with the same courtesy and dignity any human being deserves to be treated with. Why can't they doctor that saves my life also care about how I'm feeling... in an ideal world, anyway. 🙂 I apologize if I've offended anyone.

Probably because they have more responsibilities and need to prioritize and are under more production pressure than the hourly employed nurse or nurse practitioner. Not a great answer, but an accurate one.

 

[manda33]

.

 

[deleted480308]

The NP called the anesthesiologist to perform the blood patch. I wandered here accidentally because I was curious how long my back might hurt from said blood patch, became interested in the discussion, then irritated enough at my own physician, (and atypically uninhibited by Norco) to post my own two cents on a topic that the core debate here isn't even about. I just got riled over some of the "everyone wants to be a doctor" comments, and how it was insulting. In any case, I think I'll stick to the Sims 3 and Harry Potter forums in the future. 😉

in fairness to the doctors here, those nurses that insist on using doctor/resident titles actually do want to be doctors because they keep identifying as such. the only time you here that subsection of nurses distance themselves from the idea of being a doctor is when you ask them to jump the hurdles that doctors must clear, it is at that moment nursing is magically different again

 

[manda33]

.

 

[Laryngophed]

Just out of passing curiosity, and since I've already got my foot in my mouth... anyone have an opinion on if it would be a bad idea to soak in a hot bath 5 hours post blood patch?

Unfortunately, you won't be able to get medical advice from SDN as it violates the TOS.

You're likely right. But I'm far more likely to trust a caregiver who doesn't make me feel like I'm wasting their valuable time. Unfortunately, it's been more than two doctors, I was just trying to illustrate my point. I do agree, however, that no one (nurse or otherwise) should misrepresent themselves... this week's frustration has led me to rant where I really have no business ranting. And it isn't about being "nice" or being "mean"... it's about treating the patient with the same courtesy and dignity any human being deserves to be treated with. Why can't the doctor that saves my life also care about how I'm feeling... in an ideal world, anyway. 🙂 I apologize if I've offended anyone.

Feel free to rant. It certainly is better to get it out. I would imagine that most posters here (at least the active ones), excluding a few, would even be willing to have a congenial discussion with you. There have been many threads on the roles of non-physicians in the anesthesia role, and some of them are on the front page. You could have a scroll through them and post in one or more (assuming this thread gets locked for the request of medical advice). The discussion here is lively and another perspective should be welcomed.

 

[manda33]

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[Spinach Dip]

Manda -

I hear ya. I have many stories of doctors who wouldn't give me more than a 1 second of their time and/or treated me like I was an illness rather than a person with an illness. Fortunately, I was able to fire those doctors (er, ask for a second opinion and never go back...) and find some doctors who would actually listen to me.

I've also had great nurses and b#tchy nurses. But that's a topic for another day.

If I had to trust a random person with my care, though, I would go for the MD 100% of the time.

 

[IanMcGalt]

Not everyone wants to be a doctor, but A LOT of non-physicians in healthcare want to pretend to be doctors- calling themselves residents, wearing white coats even if they are nurses with only administrative duties, getting bogus 'doctorates' and wanting to be called doctors.
There are plenty of other people who are happy with their career choices, and they should be, but fake doctors get old.