St Georges vs Western

[airrick16]

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I don't have a legitimate chance of getting into a top tier vet school, so I'm looking at St Georges and Western, among others. How do these schools stack up against eachother?? I saw Western has limited accreditation and SGU does not.
Also I couldnt see anything regarding the SGU's admission statistics (GRE,GPA). I saw Western acceptees had ave. 3.3 / 1040 . Which school would you guys recommend applying to? Which is a better vet school? Which is harder to get into?

 

[jpeterman13]

If I'm not mistaken, SGU is not accredited, however, I do believe that they expect to get accreditation within the next few years. From what I've gathered, Western is on LA because they are so new and weren't ready to go from provisional accreditation to full. But don't let the stats at Western fool you, I hear that you can be a 4.0 student and not get in because of how they select people (whole person, not just numbers). I think that will be much harder to get accepted to (but I don't know much about St Georges though, I might be way off). As far as which one is better...the best vet school is the one that you get into. it's going to be what you make of it. so apply to both, what do you have to loose?

 

[VeganSoprano]

Western is AVMA accredited. SGU is not.I personally would choose an accredited school given the option. I have never met anyone from SGU so I can't comment firsthand on the quality of their grads but we had a Western grad in last year's intern class where I work and she was great.

 

[twelvetigers]

Western's 'limited accreditation' will likely soon turn to regular accreditation, and either way it's still AVMA accredited (so the PAVE is not required to practice in the US... and the PAVE is a long, arduous test... especially since everyone already takes the NAVLE for boards anyway!)

St. George's is a very small school in comparison to those in the US. It's on a small island, and while I know nothing about Grenada in particular, I do know that island life can be a very rough adjustment, so do be aware of that.

I agree with jpeterman that Western isn't a 'sure shot' because of the low average GRE/ GPA - they have a really curious system for acceptance which factors in where you are from as well. They basically want a very diverse class that excels in all different areas (and not just GRE/GPA). At least that's my take on it.

So really, one isn't better than the other, and if accreditation isn't an issue, you won't mind island life, cost isn't a factor, and you think you'd take well to 'probem-based learning', well, apply to both places and see what happens. 🙂

 

[sumstorm]

SGU has had an expectation of accreditation for a while. I wouldn't count on it happening until the ink is dry on the documents.

I wouldn't go unaccredited over limited or full at any point if I had the option. I also wouldn't assume that the standards for any of the US schools are lower...different perhaps, but not necessarily lower. Take a look at the past accepted student stats threads to get an impression of where you might fit in. Even students with great stats often had very mixed results in the application cycle.

I do have experience now with SGU transfer students, and my limited contact hasn't been positive. PRobably more individual issues than school issues, but I know plenty of vets who have worked with island students and are satisified with their ability. Also, remember, the island schools are often on a different schedule AND some go year round, which might prove more difficult. I also think they have a US rounds requirement as well. and the Pave is expensive and the loan options aren't the same as compared to US schools.

 

[Hopeful07]

I'm a second year St. George's student, and I'm happy here. I would not hold your breath on SGU being accredited anytime soon. While the University has made some rather big strides towards accreditation over the past year, it probably won't happen for a few years. The recent problem with private loans has pushed the University to become more proactive about full accreditation, however, the more probable situation will be that we may get limited accreditation sooner than full accreditation (which means we would be able to take out federal loans instead of private loans.)

That being said, I'm very satisfied with the quality of education and support that SGU gives it's students. I applied here because I did not get accepted into a US school my first time of applying. I decided that instead of waiting for the next application round for American schools, that I would just go for it with a Caribbean school. There are challenge's that one should be prepared for if you decide to come to a Caribbean school. We do have to take the PAVE or ECFVG. The PAVE, being a significantly cheaper option ($1000), is a test you take before you get off the island and you take it so that you can practice in the States -- the catch is that it is only valid in 28(?) states. The ECFVG (valid to work in ALL states) is a more strenuous test that takes three days to complete and is about $6000. Another challenge is adapting to island life. It is much different than living in the United States and it is hard to be far away from family and friends. Also, I would make sure you have a good credit score and a good co-signer for private loans. SGU is not year around, we get a month off in December and three months off in the summer. Ross, another Caribbean school, is year around.

So all in all, I would encourage you to apply to US schools first before applying to SGU. Although I do recommend SGU as a very great option, like I have stated before, I'm happy here. If you have any other questions, don't hesitate to ask. 🙂

*Edit - I forgot to mention the stats that SGU accepts. I don't know the specific average GPA's or GRE's (You can get that by calling SGU's New York office), but it appears that most people are above a 3.0 and 1000 GRE score.

 

[airrick16]

*Edit - I forgot to mention the stats that SGU accepts. I don't know the specific average GPA's or GRE's (You can get that by calling SGU's New York office), but it appears that most people are above a 3.0 and 1000 GRE score.

Well I have graduated with a BS in Biological Sciences with 3.0. I didnt really know what I wanted to do with my life, so I didn't work as hard as I could have. Ive been working at Tufts in infectious disease (zoonotic intestinal parasites) research for 3 years. And I've have volunteered at an equine clinic and wildlife clinic. I took the GRE in March and got a 1300 (770 math, 530 verbal) but a 3.5 on essay portion. I attribute this to a poor essay selection...something about Andy Worhol. I can rationalize anything 🙂

 

[Pigsfoot]

weirdly also, Western is way more expensive than SGU. western is about $37k a year while SGU is about $25......something else to consider.

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[david594]

weirdly also, Western is way more expensive than SGU. western is about $37k a year while SGU is about $25......something else to consider.
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I don't know if I would call an extra 12k a year way more expensive. You also need to factor in the cost of flights in and out of there. Differences in cost of living between there and the USA. Inability to get a job there as a student or for ones significant other.

Another big factor is the differences in loans available to you as a student at a non-accredited foreign school versus an accredited school. Limited federal loans, higher interest federal loans, and private loans all add to the expense without being an immediate line item.

And the 6 grand at the end for the ECFVG isn't something to forget about.

 

[airrick16]

Another big factor is the differences in loans available to you as a student at a non-accredited foreign school versus an accredited school.

And the 6 grand at the end for the ECFVG isn't something to forget about.

And SGU is only 25k the first year. It goes up every year. 3rd year students pay something like 60k if I remember correctly.

On the other hand, Western only has limited accreditation. Wouldn't I need to take the PAVE or ECFVG after grad from there as well?

 

[david594]

On the other hand, Western only has limited accreditation. Wouldn't I need to take the PAVE or ECFVG after grad from there as well?

No. Limited accreditation is still accredited. It just means they are things that need to be fixed.

 

[Hopeful07]

And SGU is only 25k the first year. It goes up every year. 3rd year students pay something like 60k if I remember correctly.

On the other hand, Western only has limited accreditation. Wouldn't I need to take the PAVE or ECFVG after grad from there as well?

Hmm, not sure where you heard that, but SGU's tuition does not increase every year until our fourth year, and in our fourth year we are in the States doing our clinical year. It's about 45,000 for tuition our fourth year. 🙂

 

[TurtleLover]

Ok I have some insight for you about Western. I interviewed there and was accepted there this year. I think if you are chosing Western or SGU based on their tier level, then you need to consider other things about Western as well.

Western is not your typical veterinary school. It is COMPLETELY problems based learning oriented (PBL). Which means there are no lectures. You work in groups of 8-10 for a few weeks at a time, on a case, with a mentor, and then you switch to another group. You are basically working to solve these clinical cases as a group by an approach called problem-oriented approach to veterinary medicine. It is structured and we did a practice one at our interview. It was neat to see how it works, and it actually does work. Then you have a normal written test on different subjects just like any other vet school has.

A lot of people have trouble with this PBL approach to learning and it is definitely not for everyone! If you can't stand working in groups and with other people and most importantly, TEACHING YOURSELF all/most of the time, then I would not consider Western.

However, they are a private university so they don't discriminate in/out of state and everyone is equal in that sense. And they do stress diversity, which is why their stats seem lower. But the quality of veterinarians who graduate from Western are still of high magnitude. Basically, to give you an idea of how far they stretch this whole diversity thing...if you are put on the wait list...you only get off if someone of a certain diversity that you match drops their spot and you are next. So it's not necessarily ranked either.

So those are some things to think about with Western as well. From personal experience, I would apply to as many schools as you possibly can. You never know unless you try, right?

 

[airrick16]

Ok I have some insight for you about Western. I interviewed there and was accepted there this year. I think if you are chosing Western or SGU based on their tier level, then you need to consider other things about Western as well.

Western is not your typical veterinary school. It is COMPLETELY problems based learning oriented (PBL). Which means there are no lectures. You work in groups of 8-10 for a few weeks at a time, on a case, with a mentor, and then you switch to another group. You are basically working to solve these clinical cases as a group by an approach called problem-oriented approach to veterinary medicine. It is structured and we did a practice one at our interview. It was neat to see how it works, and it actually does work. Then you have a normal written test on different subjects just like any other vet school has.

A lot of people have trouble with this PBL approach to learning and it is definitely not for everyone! If you can't stand working in groups and with other people and most importantly, TEACHING YOURSELF all/most of the time, then I would not consider Western.

However, they are a private university so they don't discriminate in/out of state and everyone is equal in that sense. And they do stress diversity, which is why their stats seem lower. But the quality of veterinarians who graduate from Western are still of high magnitude. Basically, to give you an idea of how far they stretch this whole diversity thing...if you are put on the wait list...you only get off if someone of a certain diversity that you match drops their spot and you are next. So it's not necessarily ranked either.

So those are some things to think about with Western as well. From personal experience, I would apply to as many schools as you possibly can. You never know unless you try, right?

Wow thats surprising. What do you mean problem? A sick animal you need to diagnose? Or is the problem related to a certain subject eg. physiology, genetics etc.

If there are no lectures how do students learn the basics? You teach eachother in the group?

 

[ckgilabert]

airrick, you'll have to look at other threads on how pbl works. its basically...you get in a group of 8 people, and you're given a sheet that says "you have an 8 yr old cat that is coughing" and then you and your group try to solve the problem. they give you more info later in the week...but that is how they teach...its by you learning on your own, researching stuff on your own. they take pride that when students have a question and ask a professor...the professor will say "look it up". they want self-sufficient students. or self-learners.


my thoughts....i agree, apply to as many schools as you can. you'll be surprised. and you'll get culture shocked when you move out of the country. im the type that sorta goes with the flow...but i just moved a couple of states away and i'm finding differences that irk me (they dont have 99cent stores in colorado, del taco and el pollo loco are an hour away, and it snows here!! OH, AND THEY DONT HAVE TOILET SEAT COVERS IN THE BATHROOMS!)

good luck!

 

[airrick16]

airrick, you'll have to look at other threads on how pbl works. its basically...you get in a group of 8 people, and you're given a sheet that says "you have an 8 yr old cat that is coughing" and then you and your group try to solve the problem. they give you more info later in the week...but that is how they teach...its by you learning on your own, researching stuff on your own. they take pride that when students have a question and ask a professor...the professor will say "look it up". they want self-sufficient students. or self-learners.

Okay thanks for the advice. I would consider myself a self-learner, but I work better individually. If I were in a situation where to learn I had to depend of my group and they had to depend on me, I probably wouldnt do as well as other people. Would you still recommend this school for someone who works better individually than in groups??

 

[VeganSoprano]

Western's list of prereqs is much longer and more specific than any other school that I know of. Their rationale is that they want you to have done all your basic sciences so they can spend 4 years actually teaching you to be a vet. It's meant to partially compensate for the fact that vets don't necessarily get the years of residency training that MDs/DOs get once they've finished school. Makes a lot of sense to me, actually.

The only thing that will prevent Western from being one of my top choices is the aforementioned list of prereqs. It would take me an extra 2 years to finish them, so the only way I'll end up applying is if I go two rounds without an acceptance.

 

[twelvetigers]

OH, AND THEY DONT HAVE TOILET SEAT COVERS IN THE BATHROOMS!)

The fact that you had to edit your post to include that cracks me up.

I guess we mostly don't have them here either. That's what hovering is for. TMI? 🙄

 

[VAgirl]

The fact that you had to edit your post to include that cracks me up.

I guess we mostly don't have them here either. That's what hovering is for. TMI? 🙄

Hovering where people miss and hit the toilet seat! That's worse! Just sit down, folks!

Ok, now that's TMI. 🙂

 

[twelvetigers]

Hey, it ain't like that, really!

Okay, here's what you do - you get strips of TP and carefully lay them on the seat so that you make your own seat cover. It requires some patience and finesse, but it's totally do-able.

I only hover in circumstances beyond saving... emergencies, porta potties, unpleasant sorts of places. I'd rather not discuss it any further.

...LOL.

 

[CatVet2Be]

I'm an even worse germ-phobe, I TP the toilet seat and hover. Builds great thigh muscles 😀

 

[twelvetigers]

Off-topic threads are my favorite. 😀

 

[airrick16]

Hey, it ain't like that, really!

Okay, here's what you do - you get strips of TP and carefully lay them on the seat so that you make your own seat cover. It requires some patience and finesse, but it's totally do-able.

I only hover in circumstances beyond saving... emergencies, porta potties, unpleasant sorts of places. I'd rather not discuss it any further.

...LOL.

Yeah I know what ur saying, I've always been a TP guy myself. But i only squat at airports, etc.

 

[chris03333]

(they dont have 99cent stores in colorado, del taco and el pollo loco are an hour away, and it snows here!! OH, AND THEY DONT HAVE TOILET SEAT COVERS IN THE BATHROOMS!)

good luck!

I had the same problems when I moved from Cali to Michigan (except there is NO el pollo loco)...The no toilet seat cover thing really bothers me (lived in Cali most of my life where 99.999% of all places have toilet seat covers).

 

[twelvetigers]

I've never heard of Del Taco or El Pollo Loco.

I would miss Braum's, though... I know you can't find those on the coasts.

Man, I'm gonna have to visit Cali just for the toilet seat covers. Sounds nice. 😀

 

[bunnity]

Even moving within the state makes me sad... plus everything here costs about twice what it would in Pittsburgh.

Back on track, apply to every school that you:
a) would go to if you got accepted there and no where else
b) have the pre-req's
c) can afford to

You may find that the decision is made for you if you only get into one school, or you may get into multiple schools but at least at that point you will have visited some of them for interviews and learned more about them.

 

[ckgilabert]

LOL everyone,

i know we've shared lots of info...and here's mine: when i REALLY need to go bad...i'll hover...when i have time, i'll lay down the toilet paper. LOL.

and that's another thing...i have to make sure i GO when i need to GO. i cant wait till the last minute...cuz there's no toilet seat covers!


OH, and i also wanted to point out (i was talkign to friends about this yesterday)...i had FOUR friends apply to western...who i totally think should have gotten in...and they didn't. great stats and lots of hours doesn't mean that you have an automatic in. AND they had great personalities.