St. Joesph's not opening until 2011

[IceScrewball]

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I knew something seemed wrong with the admissions process...

Dear Prospective Student:

President Reid has decided to delay the matriculation of students into the Doctor of Pharmacy program until the fall of 2011 rather than the fall of this year as we had initially planned. The decision was made upon the advice of the ACPE team and after consultation with members of the Board of Trustees, the Executive Cabinet and Dean of the School of Pharmacy.

This decision is based on the rigors of the process required to introduce our innovative educational model. While significant progress has been made – licensure from the Connecticut Department of Higher Education, approval from the New England Association of Schools and Colleges (NEASC) to offer doctoral degrees, the hiring of a leadership team and leasing of downtown space – more time is needed to ensure our students will receive the support they need to succeed. We will also benefit from an additional year of planning and development of the program. This decision is made with the best interests of students and our reputation for excellence in mind, and we are contacting and working with each student personally to help them coordinate their plans in light of this decision. We remain committed to making this exciting new vision for our future a reality.

If you are interested in applying for admission into our program for the academic year 2011-2012, please review our admission requirements on our website at: http://www.sjc.edu/academics/school_of_pharmacy/pharmd_prereq.html . You may wish to consider taking additional courses or retaking the PCAT to improve your chances for admission. Please be aware that all applications will be processed through PharmCAS for the 2011-2012 academic year.



Best Wishes,

 

[Maestrojo]

yeah, I just got that e-mail....

So....I guess we're not getting a refund?

 

[pearljam5a1]

Am I reading that right? Are they making everyone that got accepted this year reapply for next year, or did they just not accept anyone?

 

[AnhPhung310]

Am I reading that right? Are they making everyone that got accepted this year reapply for next year, or did they just not accept anyone?

Yes it is right. I am glad that I got accepted to somewhere else and didn't go for the interview. My friend got accepted to Saint Joseph and he declined the offer from another school. Now the school won't open till 2010-2011. He is so upset now. 🙁

 

[Maestrojo]

Yes it is right. I am glad that I got accepted to somewhere else and didn't go for the interview. My friend got accepted to Saint Joseph and he declined the offer from another school. Now the school won't open till 2010-2011. He is so upset now. 🙁

OMG! How horrible!

that is worse than getting all rejections for an application cycle!

 

[bozeefus]

Yes it is right. I am glad that I got accepted to somewhere else and didn't go for the interview. My friend got accepted to Saint Joseph and he declined the offer from another school. Now the school won't open till 2010-2011. He is so upset now. 🙁

Oh god that's horrible.

 

[rxlea]

Maybe the other school will take him back considering the circumstances? Or at least put him on a waitlist? I know...wishful thinking. I guess this is one reason not to apply to new schools.

 

[Sparda29]

That sucks. Touro waited until after they got the ACPE go ahead.

 

[holymolys]

damn, thats gota suck for those who are only accepted there and have no other backups or declined the rest

 

[rxlea]

PCOM is still taking apps. Maybe you all can jump on that.

 

[IceScrewball]

yeah, I just got that e-mail....

So....I guess we're not getting a refund?

I wouldn't hold my breath on it.

I'm *SO* happy that I got in somewhere else, I would be devastated if I had decided to go to St. Joe's, and I feel really badly for anyone that is getting screwed by this.

 

[litetigre]

I wouldn't hold my breath on it.

I'm *SO* happy that I got in somewhere else, I would be devastated if I had decided to go to St. Joe's, and I feel really badly for anyone that is getting screwed by this.

since u are not attending them anyway. Just sue them in civil court for damage. I thought that after the Hawaii fiasco, acpe would have done a better job. A lawsuit should stop the diploma mills and proctect students from these ever happen again.

 

[fiestychix03]

This NEWS is quite appalling. I knew they didn't have an such ACPE standing and had no business interviewing candidates. Sorry to those who have no other options...

 

[boltdude]

Man, what a joke. This is just embarrassing for the whole pharmacy admissions process and the new schools in general. I'm embarrassed myself even though I didn't come near to touching this school. I wish all the best to the applicants who touched this school.

 

[kyj88]

I had an interview scheduled today (4/23), and so I flew there yesterday from San francisco. There was no non-stop flight so it took about 8 hours to get Hartford. After I got there I got a call from Kristine and she told me that my interview has been cancelled and there will be no matriculation for fall 2010. I paid 500 dollors for my flight and 80 dollors for the hotel. I also paid extra 150 dollars to change my flight schedule because I had nothing to do in Hartford and I just decided to go home early. 😡😡😡They should notified me a head of time. I hope they are refunding my application fee...at least. I chose to apply st.joe's becuase of 3 year program. I should have applied other 3 year program schools.🙁

 

[rxlea]

I had an interview scheduled today (4/23), and so I flew there yesterday from San francisco. There was no non-stop flight so it took about 8 hours to get Hartford. After I got there I got a call from Kristine and she told me that my interview has been cancelled and there will be no matriculation for fall 2010. I paid 500 dollors for my flight and 80 dollors for the hotel. I also paid extra 150 dollars to change my flight schedule because I had nothing to do in Hartford and I just decided to go home early. 😡😡😡They should notified me a head of time. I hope they are refunding my application fee...at least. I chose to apply st.joe's becuase of 3 year program. I should have applied other 3 year program schools.🙁

They didn't even offer you a refund for your app fee?? That is ridiculous!!! How was she on the phone? Was she even apologetic?

 

[wsupharmacy]

Wow! What kind of pharmacy school is that? So disappointed. I guess students will not likely reapply to this school in 2010-2011 cycle. I feel sorry for those who applied this year.

 

[litetigre]

I had an interview scheduled today (4/23), and so I flew there yesterday from San francisco. There was no non-stop flight so it took about 8 hours to get Hartford. After I got there I got a call from Kristine and she told me that my interview has been cancelled and there will be no matriculation for fall 2010. I paid 500 dollors for my flight and 80 dollors for the hotel. I also paid extra 150 dollars to change my flight schedule because I had nothing to do in Hartford and I just decided to go home early. 😡😡😡They should notified me a head of time. I hope they are refunding my application fee...at least. I chose to apply st.joe's becuase of 3 year program. I should have applied other 3 year program schools.🙁

Take them to sf court. We don't want people to continue taking advantage of vulnerable students. Find a good lawyer in sf, I believe there are many. At least do a class action. You should be able to get all back plus some extra. More important it can shut down the school. I strongly believe that the reason they can matriculate is they did not meet accreditation criteria.

 

[IceScrewball]

I had forgotten about this, which makes it worse:

http://dodd.senate.gov/?q=node/5358

This is from Sen. Chris Dodd's (D-CT) website. He got $175,000 in federal funding from the recovery act to help pay for St. Joesph's College (a private school) to open the Pharmacy School in downtown Hartford. I think it was billed as it would bring jobs to the city, but since they aren't planning on having so much as a coffee bar in the school, I'm not sure how many local Hartford people would really get employed by the school.

I really don't want to start a political debate about the recovery act, but I find this interesting. Where is the money going?

 

[RxMang]

I really don't want to start a political debate about the recovery act, but I find this interesting. Where is the money going?

probably to the school for next year?

 

[phathead]

Wow. That's all I have to say.

 

[i ♥ pharmacy]

I'm in shock... I made other plans for next year, but I definitely fell in love with the area...and I corresponded mainly with Ken and he was really awesome. And during the interview, they definitely made it clear that St Joseph's had no ACPE status, BUT Ken said that Dean Ofosu served on the the ACPE committee making decisions about other schools (or something to this extent), so basically he was implying that there would be no problem with gaining ACPE status. The acceptance letters also clearly stated that the offers were based upon them receiving ACPE approval, and if they did not, the deposit would be refunded or they would hold on to it, if you were interested in staring in 2011. They definitely have themselves covered, unlike with the Hawaii fiasco.

 

[myska]

What's this Hawaii fiasco that people are mentioning?

 

[litetigre]

I'm in shock... I made other plans for next year, but I definitely fell in love with the area...and I corresponded mainly with Ken and he was really awesome. And during the interview, they definitely made it clear that St Joseph's had no ACPE status, BUT Ken said that Dean Ofosu served on the the ACPE committee making decisions about other schools (or something to this extent), so basically he was implying that there would be no problem with gaining ACPE status. The acceptance letters also clearly stated that the offers were based upon them receiving ACPE approval, and if they did not, the deposit would be refunded or they would hold on to it, if you were interested in staring in 2011. They definitely have themselves covered, unlike with the Hawaii fiasco.

in order to matriculate students, a school must be in pre-candidate status. I think that's why st Joe got yanked. Pre-can means at least the school made significant progress toward being considered for accreditation. The Hawaii fiasco is even worse. Students were enrolled but school has no accreditation status. Finally acpe denied application and school folded.

 

[bcr1652]

What's this Hawaii fiasco that people are mentioning?

This happened several years ago... it was called Hawaii College of Pharmacy, which now doesn't exist. It was a private pharmacy school on the island of Oahu. Check out this link for more info about what happened:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hawaii_College_of_Pharmacy


This has NOTHING to do with currently existing University of Hawaii at Hilo: College of Pharmacy, which has a current CANDIDATE accreditation status. This school is on the Big Island of Hawaii.

 

[IceScrewball]

This happened several years ago... it was called Hawaii College of Pharmacy, which now doesn't exist. It was a private pharmacy school on the island of Oahu. Check out this link for more info about what happened:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hawaii_College_of_Pharmacy


This has NOTHING to do with currently existing University of Hawaii at Hilo: College of Pharmacy, which has a current CANDIDATE accreditation status. This school is on the Big Island of Hawaii.

Thanks! I was wondering what happened too.

 

[diastole]

I had forgotten about this, which makes it worse:

http://dodd.senate.gov/?q=node/5358

This is from Sen. Chris Dodd's (D-CT) website. He got $175,000 in federal funding from the recovery act to help pay for St. Joesph's College (a private school) to open the Pharmacy School in downtown Hartford. I think it was billed as it would bring jobs to the city, but since they aren't planning on having so much as a coffee bar in the school, I'm not sure how many local Hartford people would really get employed by the school.

I really don't want to start a political debate about the recovery act, but I find this interesting. Where is the money going?

I read your link and unless I missed it, it didn't say anything about bringing jobs to the city in the way you are talking about. What it did say was that the school would help fill the current and future pharmacy jobs in the state. And it is pretty tough to argue that a pharmacy school won't do that unless it fails to open, of course. Students attend the school, make local connections and then some of them take local jobs even if they aren't originally from the area. Now whether or not that is worth $175,000 depends on how many of those jobs would go unfilled if the school didn't exist. If the jobs would get filled anyway by all the other new schools opening, then it would have been better to just keep the money.

 

[euqinugoogoo]

I applied to this school an declined the interview. I'm glad I didn't waste money on the flight from LA to Hartford. I would've been so pissed. I'm sorry for those people that did. To be excited to go to pharmacy school and then have something like this happen is the worst!

 

[IceScrewball]

I read your link and unless I missed it, it didn't say anything about bringing jobs to the city in the way you are talking about. What it did say was that the school would help fill the current and future pharmacy jobs in the state. And it is pretty tough to argue that a pharmacy school won't do that unless it fails to open, of course. Students attend the school, make local connections and then some of them take local jobs even if they aren't originally from the area. Now whether or not that is worth $175,000 depends on how many of those jobs would go unfilled if the school didn't exist. If the jobs would get filled anyway by all the other new schools opening, then it would have been better to just keep the money.

That's fair, it's not a very detailed article. Sorry, I had read several articles about this and heard about it on the local news, but that was a few months ago. Here are two other articles about it that would have been better links:

Hartford Courant:
http://articles.courant.com/2009-12..._1_pharmacy-school-st-joseph-college-students

SJC's Website:
http://www.sjc.edu/news/pharm_federal_stimulus_funding.html

 

[diastole]

The school itself probably won't employ too many locals but it sounds like it could attract a few businesses to the area which will create more jobs. All those students, faculty and other employees are going to need places to eat, a place to drink coffee, a place to get haircuts, entertainment options, etc. I'd be really surprised if you don't see more businesses around the school once it expands to its full size. And if that school is like mine, they'll try to add a nursing program, a dental program and whatever else they think they can profit from once it gets up and running. In an economically depressed area which it sounds like it is from one of the articles, that probably isn't such a bad thing.

 

[ucrx]

The school itself probably won't employ too many locals but it sounds like it could attract a few businesses to the area which will create more jobs. All those students, faculty and other employees are going to need places to eat, a place to drink coffee, a place to get haircuts, entertainment options, etc. I'd be really surprised if you don't see more businesses around the school once it expands to its full size. And if that school is like mine, they'll try to add a nursing program, a dental program and whatever else they think they can profit from once it gets up and running. In an economically depressed area which it sounds like it is from one of the articles, that probably isn't such a bad thing.

There are plenty of these things in and around Hartford already. Also, I believe St. Joseph's is an existing private school with a great nursing school. They are simply adding a pharmacy program to their school. As for providing pharmacists to fill local positions- that really isn't needed in CT. UConn already has a pharmacy school that graduates 100 students a year, and there really aren't that many open positions left in the state. I do hope that they become successful because there are many wonderful and qualified people helping to create the program. This isn't the first time a new pharmacy school delayed opening for a year. This is just a risk people applying to a new school take and that applicants should always consider. I hope everyone affected by this succeeds, and in the long run a year isn't much in the long run if you're pursuing your dreams.

 

[lakersfanpharmd]

This is so upsetting news. Before I got accepted, I was planning to apply here for next cycle. It's a Catholic school, so I was interested in it. Now after what has happened, it has created a bad impression. That's why I was wondering earlier ago, why would they accept students before having pre-candidate status...Anyway, I would encourage everyone to apply elsewhere next cycle. Enjoy the extra year, I know you guys will get into a school.

 

[i ♥ pharmacy]

They originally planned to open fall 2011; perhaps they were being overly ambitious with trying to open a year earlier.

 

[woowooeoe]

They didn't even offer you a refund for your app fee?? That is ridiculous!!! How was she on the phone? Was she even apologetic?

Did you accepted to any other school? I applied to only this school and now only option is to apply elsewhere.

 

[rxlea]

Did you accepted to any other school? I applied to only this school and now only option is to apply elsewhere.

PCOM is still taking apps...maybe you should apply there.

 

[joetrisman]

If accepted, I'd be raising hell over app fees. Between this and the thread about the 26k lock-in for Union, the sky is falling thread might have just gained some credibility about the diploma mills

 

[samurai361]

If accepted, I'd be raising hell over app fees. Between this and the thread about the 26k lock-in for Union, the sky is falling thread might have just gained some credibility about the diploma mills

There are currently 158 medical schools, and 14-16 slated to open in the next 3 years. There are currently 111 pharmacy schools in candidate/fully accredited status, with 5 pre-candidate schools. Given the need for doctors (and along with that pharmacists, logically), I don't think it's that bad.

 

[i ♥ pharmacy]

so i finally got a letter from them yesterday as i had paid my deposit. basically i can get a refund on my deposit or if i let them hold it, i have a seat for the fall 2011 inaugural class.
clearly, i've made other plans, so i'll be going for the refund.

i have to admit, though, their application fee was steep-- $125 for just the supplemental (+ of course pharmcas fees, but that's standard).

I think for every other supplemental i completed, the fee was only $25?!

i wouldn't even think of asking for a refund, because I paid it willingly, but in retrospect, i should have been more concerned.

 

[litetigre]

There are currently 158 medical schools, and 14-16 slated to open in the next 3 years. There are currently 111 pharmacy schools in candidate/fully accredited status, with 5 pre-candidate schools. Given the need for doctors (and along with that pharmacists, logically), I don't think it's that bad.

once you get to mass production....

 

[litetigre]

so i finally got a letter from them yesterday as i had paid my deposit. basically i can get a refund on my deposit or if i let them hold it, i have a seat for the fall 2011 inaugural class.
clearly, i've made other plans, so i'll be going for the refund.

i have to admit, though, their application fee was steep-- $125 for just the supplemental (+ of course pharmcas fees, but that's standard).

I think for every other supplemental i completed, the fee was only $25?!

i wouldn't even think of asking for a refund, because I paid it willingly, but in retrospect, i should have been more concerned.

lol...they are lowballing you. Tell them to pay you one year of pharmacist salary and opportunity cost!

 

[i ♥ pharmacy]

lol...they are lowballing you. Tell them to pay you one year of pharmacist salary and opportunity cost!

Oh, let me clarify: I was referring to asking for a refund for the application fee. As far as the deposit, there is no question...i want that back! Honestly, I had already made alternate (better!) plans for next year anyways!

 

[woowooeoe]

since u are not attending them anyway. Just sue them in civil court for damage. I thought that after the Hawaii fiasco, acpe would have done a better job. A lawsuit should stop the diploma mills and proctect students from these ever happen again.

having trouble getting lawyers that will take case. email acpe about recourse available. acpe inform saint joseph had review status from acpe in june so don't know what is the problem and why president chose to delay matriculation!

 

[IceScrewball]

having trouble getting lawyers that will take case. email acpe about recourse available. acpe inform saint joseph had review status from acpe in june so don't know what is the problem and why president chose to delay matriculation!

Well this situation sucks, but is it really worth getting lawyers involved? The school definitely posted notices all over their website and on PharmCas that they were not fully accredited yet, so any student (myself included) that applied knew they were taking a risk by applying. Sometimes taking risks pays off, other times it doesn't. Unfortunately, this is one of those situations where the risk wasn't beneficial.

But really, what is your best case scenario by trying to sue? At minimum, you will spend $1000-$3000 retainer for your lawyer, plus court costs, plus travel fees (because you'll probably file in a CT court), just to get your 125 dollar application fee back. That doesn't seem logical to me.

Yes, it was very disappointing to a lot of people that St. Joe's isn't opening this year, but it's time to make other plans, rather than dwell on what might have been.

 

[litetigre]

Well this situation sucks, but is it really worth getting lawyers involved? The school definitely posted notices all over their website and on PharmCas that they were not fully accredited yet, so any student (myself included) that applied knew they were taking a risk by applying. Sometimes taking risks pays off, other times it doesn't. Unfortunately, this is one of those situations where the risk wasn't beneficial.

But really, what is your best case scenario by trying to sue? At minimum, you will spend $1000-$3000 retainer for your lawyer, plus court costs, plus travel fees (because you'll probably file in a CT court), just to get your 125 dollar application fee back. That doesn't seem logical to me.

Yes, it was very disappointing to a lot of people that St. Joe's isn't opening this year, but it's time to make other plans, rather than dwell on what might have been.

If you guys are so scared of litigation, so are they! The key is to prove that they are knowingly defrauding students. I quoted the Hawaii situation so that you guys read and understand the circumstance. Basically after the closure of that school, all new schools should have pre-candidate status before taking application. As I said before, to protect students. My tentative conclusion is that St Joe due to its greed, ignored acpe warning, decided to take in students before accreditation review. Now acpe showed them who is your daddy, so st joe has no choice but to delay or not get accredited at all.
So there you go, a class action case right there. If you don't want to do it, that's fine. No pain no gain

 

[ucrx]

If you guys are so scared of litigation, so are they! The key is to prove that they are knowingly defrauding students. I quoted the Hawaii situation so that you guys read and understand the circumstance. Basically after the closure of that school, all new schools should have pre-candidate status before taking application. As I said before, to protect students. My tentative conclusion is that St Joe due to its greed, ignored acpe warning, decided to take in students before accreditation review. Now acpe showed them who is your daddy, so st joe has no choice but to delay or not get accredited at all.
So there you go, a class action case right there. If you don't want to do it, that's fine. No pain no gain

I thought they were required to have pre-candidate status before enrolling students, not before accepting applications.

From the ACPE Policies and Procedures:

"6.1 Preaccreditation. A newly instituted Doctor of Pharmacy program must be granted each of the two Preaccreditation statuses at the appropriate stage of its development. The standards are the same as those employed for accredited status, however, Preaccreditation involves planning in accord with the standards and provision of reasonable assurances for a quality outcome. A new program must achieve Precandidate accreditation status prior to beginning instruction of students1.

1 A program may recruit and admit students prior to receiving Precandiate accreditation status, but those students may not begin classes before Precandidate status is achieved."

So there is nothing wrong with accepting students without pre-candidate status as long as they do not begin classes until the school has pre-candidate status.

 

[RxGrL]

Wow... This was one of my biggest fears, next to the Hawaii college of pharmacy incident. I'm just glad I didn't apply here this year and that I got accepted into another school. Sorry to those who have experienced this issue. Wish you all the best!

 

[ucrx]

having trouble getting lawyers that will take case. email acpe about recourse available. acpe inform saint joseph had review status from acpe in june so don't know what is the problem and why president chose to delay matriculation!

According to the pharmacy rumor mill (oh how small the pharmacy world is), St. Joe's felt they needed more time to properly plan and prepare. They have not received pre-candidate status yet anyway so they cannot have students begin classes.

 

[i ♥ pharmacy]

has anyone received anything back?

the letter said you can request your deposit back

and those people who interviewed/didn't put down a deposit or those that didn't get an interview can get their application fee back

but apparently you lost out on your app fee if you paid a deposit..kinda stupid


anyways i sent back the form and i never got anything!!

 

[rxforlife2004]

I predict that more and more pharmacy schools will be closing or reducing the class size within 5 yrs...you guys watch and see....

 

[IceScrewball]

has anyone received anything back?

the letter said you can request your deposit back

and those people who interviewed/didn't put down a deposit or those that didn't get an interview can get their application fee back

but apparently you lost out on your app fee if you paid a deposit..kinda stupid


anyways i sent back the form and i never got anything!!

I sent my request for a refund about 10 days ago. I have not heard back from them either. How long ago did you return the letter? I'm going to give them a little more time before I complain.