Can anyone help with this decision?
Stanford or UCSF
- Thread starter Kormex
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I'd definitely go with Stanford. It's a private school, so you are protected from any cuts and such that California Government may make in the future while trying to patch that budget gap. This also means that Stanford is more likely to upgrade their labs, equipment, etc than UCSF is. Private schools can just make decisions faster because there's so much less red tape.
The education cost once you factor in the higher prices at UCSF and the fact that you can in general get more grants at a private school is going to be about the same. Palo Alto is a great little place, the students are nice and there's a lot of stuff to do if you like the outdoors. Housing prices are probably going to be about the same, but I think the surroundings make Stanford an easier place to study as well.
Ultimately this is your deciscion of course, but if it were me, I would choose Stanford in a heart beat.
- Greg
The education cost once you factor in the higher prices at UCSF and the fact that you can in general get more grants at a private school is going to be about the same. Palo Alto is a great little place, the students are nice and there's a lot of stuff to do if you like the outdoors. Housing prices are probably going to be about the same, but I think the surroundings make Stanford an easier place to study as well.
Ultimately this is your deciscion of course, but if it were me, I would choose Stanford in a heart beat.
- Greg
E
Eraserhead
Go with UCSF, you can't beat the clinical training here or the location. If you are more interested in research, go to Stanford though and take advantage of all the time off they give you.
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My friend goes to Stanford and she says its good. Research is great there, she got very good financial aid, and i visited the area and it looked nice. I like research so I'd pick Stanford.
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I was making a very tough decision between stanford and ucsf a couple years ago. Due to an unexpected turn of events I ended up at neither, but I still learned a lot about both schools in the process and have good friends at both. Congrats on a wonderful decision. You can't go wrong because both schools are exceptional. I will point out a few things that I feel are important to clarify:
First you should have NO concern that California budget problems will affect the quality of your education or facilities at UCSF. Stanford has more "private" money to throw around at students so you'll have a much nicer student lounge, better lunches, long white coats with a free stethoscope etc., but in terms of the clinical and research enterprise, UCSF will always dwarf stanford because it's just a much bigger medical school with more money than most med schools. UCSF's department of Medicine alone receives more funding than more than half of Stanford's clinical departments combined.
The best example of this is, UCSF is building the Mission Bay campus. MB is a 44 acre life sciences campus that's currently the largest medical and biotech construction effort going on in the country. It will double the size of UCSF's research and clinical capacity over the next ten years. It will include a dozen new research buildings (3 of which are completed), and a new hospital or two. My point is, UCSF is spending and will be spending $billions over th next 10 years expanding. Where does all this money come from? Lots of fundraising, but also the millions of taxpayers in California, that even in bad economic times will usually give UCSF more money than most private schools. On average, most of the facilities at UCSF are newer and in better condition than at Stanford which if you've visited should be pretty obvious. Stanford has some new building and upgrading going on too, but nothing like the scale of what's going on at UCSF.
-Stanford is more "prestigious" and has better name recognition in the non medical world. If that's important to you, and there's nothing wrong if you want that kind of recognition, you might be happier at Stanford. In the medical world, I would give UCSF the edge and put it just about with Harvard and Johns Hopkins.
-Stanford has better funding for student research and better financial aid. But on average it seems UCSF is still cheaper, although I haven't done the math.
-The best way to decide is visit both schools and go with your gut feeling. Don't be too logical. If you like a place, you like it, so just go because between these two schools, there's both excellent. Best of luck.
First you should have NO concern that California budget problems will affect the quality of your education or facilities at UCSF. Stanford has more "private" money to throw around at students so you'll have a much nicer student lounge, better lunches, long white coats with a free stethoscope etc., but in terms of the clinical and research enterprise, UCSF will always dwarf stanford because it's just a much bigger medical school with more money than most med schools. UCSF's department of Medicine alone receives more funding than more than half of Stanford's clinical departments combined.
The best example of this is, UCSF is building the Mission Bay campus. MB is a 44 acre life sciences campus that's currently the largest medical and biotech construction effort going on in the country. It will double the size of UCSF's research and clinical capacity over the next ten years. It will include a dozen new research buildings (3 of which are completed), and a new hospital or two. My point is, UCSF is spending and will be spending $billions over th next 10 years expanding. Where does all this money come from? Lots of fundraising, but also the millions of taxpayers in California, that even in bad economic times will usually give UCSF more money than most private schools. On average, most of the facilities at UCSF are newer and in better condition than at Stanford which if you've visited should be pretty obvious. Stanford has some new building and upgrading going on too, but nothing like the scale of what's going on at UCSF.
-Stanford is more "prestigious" and has better name recognition in the non medical world. If that's important to you, and there's nothing wrong if you want that kind of recognition, you might be happier at Stanford. In the medical world, I would give UCSF the edge and put it just about with Harvard and Johns Hopkins.
-Stanford has better funding for student research and better financial aid. But on average it seems UCSF is still cheaper, although I haven't done the math.
-The best way to decide is visit both schools and go with your gut feeling. Don't be too logical. If you like a place, you like it, so just go because between these two schools, there's both excellent. Best of luck.
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I would choose UCSF!!
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The poster 2 posts above could not have said it better. UCSF is a monster. I'm not sure why the school sometimes does not get as much respect on SDN as it does in the medical world. UCSF IS indeed up there with Harvard and Hopkins. Ask anybody in the medical academic field, especially on the East Coast (I guess this probably does not apply to you, but just in terms of continental recognition), which name is more respected and I guarantee that most, if not all, respondents would say UCSF. It's Harvard/Hopkins/UCSF and then everybody else.
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I completely agree with MD Passion's assessment. I chose Stanford over UCSF this application cycle, but I fully recognize that UCSF offers better clinical training. The deciding factors for me were:
1. I was comparing MSTP's and while UCSF's MSTP is amazingly organized and the Profs/Researchers are incredible AND UCSF offers amazing clinical training, I could not find a really good research match. Stanford, however, had multiple labs that corresponded well with my research interests.
2. I didn't really want to go to school in a city. A suburban setting where the foothills are walking distance away is my idea of a perfect setting.
3. The Stanford program is more flexible.
4. Stanford is P/F all 4 years with no ranking system or AOA. For an MSTP who will have little patient contact for 4+ PhD years before hitting the clinic, this is relevant. Students at Stanford also seemed more laid back and relaxed (my sampling of students was small, though--about 5 at each school).
5. Funding was a concern for me. California's budget is not in very good shape right now and I just felt more comfortable attending a private school. (I now see from MD Passion's statement that this was not an issue, but it wasn't high on my list of deciding factors anyway.)
All in all, I'm thrilled with my decision to attend Stanford, but I am not sure I would have made the same choice if I was not an MSTP applicant.
1. I was comparing MSTP's and while UCSF's MSTP is amazingly organized and the Profs/Researchers are incredible AND UCSF offers amazing clinical training, I could not find a really good research match. Stanford, however, had multiple labs that corresponded well with my research interests.
2. I didn't really want to go to school in a city. A suburban setting where the foothills are walking distance away is my idea of a perfect setting.
3. The Stanford program is more flexible.
4. Stanford is P/F all 4 years with no ranking system or AOA. For an MSTP who will have little patient contact for 4+ PhD years before hitting the clinic, this is relevant. Students at Stanford also seemed more laid back and relaxed (my sampling of students was small, though--about 5 at each school).
5. Funding was a concern for me. California's budget is not in very good shape right now and I just felt more comfortable attending a private school. (I now see from MD Passion's statement that this was not an issue, but it wasn't high on my list of deciding factors anyway.)
All in all, I'm thrilled with my decision to attend Stanford, but I am not sure I would have made the same choice if I was not an MSTP applicant.
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I would go with Stanford on this one. My main reason for this is the more flexible curriculum, better location for me (I prefer Palo Alto to SF...I hate SF with a burning passion), smaller class size, and more opportunities for research. I really could not stand living in SF because I am truly disgusted with the place so I'd much rather live in the South Bay and Palo Alto is a really quiet suburb so it would be a welcome change from Berkeley...which is basically a filthy, overpopulated, run-down hellhole with a skyhigh cost-of-living.
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SF is one of the most incredible cities in the country. The city has so much to offer in the ways of performing arts, night life, different cultures, interesting people, great views, parks... the list goes on and on. Palo Alto, well, is Palo Alto. If you'd like to live in a sterile, safe, homogenized little bubble that makes you feel warm and cozy inside, but completely devoid of external stimulus, Palo Alto is the place to be. In terms of schools, both are excellent and very comparable. UCSF seems to be more oriented towards clinic ed. while Stanford is more research oriented. If you're into underprivileged care, UCSF has some really cool programs for their students. They provide the medical student coordinators for the Berkeley Suitcase Clinic, a student-run nonprofit homeless clinic, they also have a chill mobile clinic I believe, servicing SF, along with some other homeless medical services. UCSF and SF are the ****, I wholeheartedly recommend going to school out there. 👍
AJ
PS- BerkeleyPremed, why do you despise SF?
AJ
PS- BerkeleyPremed, why do you despise SF?
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from someone considering both schools very strongly, while i loved stanford's liberal learning environment, i wanted a place that would challenge me clinically. of course, another major difference between the schools is the social environment and class size, with ucsf having a much larger group. i don't know if it's anymore "diverse" in all the ways people evaluate the word but i did like the fact that ucsf has a bigger class with much more interaction between students than i saw at stanford. i think socially, ucsf students have a lot of fun and really take advantage of the city and the school's location. i went on a random weekend to visit this semester and there were parties and barbecues all over the place. i met a lot of cool MS1s and, for me, an open, fun social environment was a big draw.
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Kormex said:
First of all, both schools are really good so you really cant go wrong.
Second, it really depends on what youre looking for in a med school?
1. Cost? Does it matter for you?
2. Location? Do you prefer the big city, San Fran, to the smaller Palo Alto? Remember, the pathology you see will vary based on your location. Generally you will see a ton of zebras in places like Palo Alto or Rochester, Minn, while you will see a good mix in cities. Also, do you prefer an undergrad campus nearby?
3. Prestige- it doesnt really matter since theyre both really good. Seriously, no residency director (outside the UC system and Stanford) will consider your school choice a factor because they are both so reputable. So if you decide to go to Stanford, it should be for reasons other than prestige, because its doubtful residency directors will even care.
4. Classmates- Stanford is notorious for being nontrad friendly. What does that mean? Lots of married people who have homes to go to. So do you expect to just go to med school for classes and know people from outside of med school, or do you plan on meeting a lot of people in med school? UCSF is a little bigger school and has more trad applicants, is that better or worse for you? They are all going to be really qualified at both places though.
5. Curriculum- people harp on this, but curriculum is less important than GRADING. Do you find the grading to be more conducive to your learning at one school over the other?
Both schools are really good and it really boils down to these 5 (among other personal reasons) to attend either of these schools. I have no idea what your preferences are so I cant really make a recommendation, but these are factors to consider.
I don't understand why everyone keeps on saying that stanford has better research than UCSF? I just don't think this is true. I feel that pre-meds may just know stanford more due to it's undergrad. If I had to choose I think UCSF is better in clinical and research. If you like the more rural location then by all means go with stanford.
ajnak182 said:
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jjmack said:
Yeah, in fact Stanford Med is not NEARLY the research powerhouse that UCSF is. Stanford has some very good researchers who are well known, but so does UCSF. The thing is, UCSF has a LOT MORE of them.
Whats more important is that both schools have enough big wigs to write YOU a good letter of rec that will get you into your residency of choice if you do well for them.
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jjmack said:
True. UCSF has more diverse research opportunities, a much larger research community and perhaps a higher caliber of research (although this is LARGELY dependent on which research area you are looking at). I visited both schools multiple times and found fantastic research at UCSF. My only concern was that I am interested in a fairly specific area of research and UCSF did not have a lab that corresponded with that interest. For someone who is open-minded about which type of research he/she wants to conduct, UCSF is awesome.
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From what I hear, the schools are vastly different in curriculum and types of people they attract. Stanfords class sizes are a bit to small in my opinion if you are looking for diversity and a lots of different people to hang out with.
In terms of pure recognition, UCSF all the way. I don't think there is any comparison on any level. Clinical, research, etc. I'm not from Cali, but I do think UCSF is up there with JHU/Harvard.......in my opinion its probably better than WashU, but then again the top ten schools are all phenomenal.....its so hard to compare...
In terms of pure recognition, UCSF all the way. I don't think there is any comparison on any level. Clinical, research, etc. I'm not from Cali, but I do think UCSF is up there with JHU/Harvard.......in my opinion its probably better than WashU, but then again the top ten schools are all phenomenal.....its so hard to compare...
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Yea, within the medical community.SunnyS81 said:
To a layman, though, UCSF doesn't ring a bell most of time (sadly). I remember once someone asked me, "So my relative's doctor referred him to this place called UC San Francisco...is it any good? I wonder why the doctor didn't refer him to Stanford instead?"
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I had the same decision, but for me it was an easy choice. Coming for a UC, I am sick and tired of public schools. Small class size is a plus for me--84 vs. 130. The NUMBER of researchers doesn't really matter, if research for medical students is streamlined--Stanford really caters to individuality....you're just ONE of the med. students at UCSF...Stanford takes care of its students (faculty members are quite accessible). I have heard the clinical experience argument so many times...each time I smile thinking....there isn't that MUCH of a difference between the two. Sure UCSF has hospitals such as SF general...but you can easily rotate through Santa Clara and the VA. Plus. I doubt you one can say another place offers BETTER clinical experience....exposure is dependent upon you....
-Harps
-Harps
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There is one thing I agree with you...I'm not really happy with the UC public school system in general...I'm not sure how med schools are like, but I feel that as an undergrad, they tried hard to recruit you there, and once you're there, you're all on your own. Good for those really independent people I guess...Harps said:
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A few comments on previous posts:
What exactly does better clinical training mean? If you mean it in terms of learning clinical procedures, a UCSF student or a Stanford student or a Hopkins student and so on will all learn how to insert NG tubes and IVs the same way. Just because UCSF's clinical sites are often right in a large city does not mean you'll learn these techniques any better. And if by better clinical training you mean more "exposure" to a variety of cases during your clerkship years, I still dont see the difference. The quality of your clinical training should depend mostly on how willing your attendings and residents want to TEACH you. Just because you stood around and saw a few more interesting cases at SF General than at Santa Clara Valley (one of Stanford's clinical rotation site) does not prepare you to be a better clinician. Having great residents as teachers will. As far as I am concerned, both UCSF and Stanford offer great clinical training. Furthermore, you can do away rotations during your clinical training. A stanford student can rotate at SF General, if you desire to see more "interesting cases."
Secondly, research. As a med student, will having more buildings or bigger lab spaces help you crank out more Science or Nature papers? Every bio-medical department at UCSF is world class. Certainly the same thing for Stanford. Both schools are powerhouses in research and are notoriously known for sucking in great researchers from other institutions. Here, for YOU as a med student, it should be about what YOUR research interests are. The researchers at UCSF psychiatry may not be doing things you are intereted in. Stanford cardiology may have no one doing what you want to do. And if you have no interest in research at all, would one school doing "more" research concern you in the end? Finally, about the funding. Stanford has less faculty members in the med school, so of course it receives less TOTAL funding than UCSF by the simple fact that less people are applying for grants. Neither UCSF nor Stanford will have to shut down labs or have blackouts to save money on electricity anytime soon. Here again, I dont see how one school getting more total research funding would change the quality of YOUR medical education/research.
Regarding "reputation," this is the first time I heard that UCSF has better reputation than Stanford within the field. I really have no idea where people get this from. If someone can enlighten me or show me evidence that this is the case (maybe let me know some discrepancies in match for students between both schools?) I'd love to know. UCSF/Stanford more prestigious than Podunk university maybe. UCSF more so than Stanford? This is a first for me. Maybe I dont know as many residency admissions officers as some of you guys do.
Personally, I think these Stanford vs. UCSF or Harvard vs. Hopkins arguments are meaningless. What I think will determine your decision, and to echo what some have been saying all along, are YOUR interests (research, possible field of choice etc...), the financial aid the schools give you, social life/settings, and the dynamics of your classmates. Arguments about "better clinical training" or "more research funding" seems silly to me, and are often false.
Also let me say that, contrary to what some posters have been suggesting, UCSF is not exactly situated in a ghetto or a hustle-bustle kind of place. Look at the neighborhoods around UCSF/golden gate park. If Stanford is a country club, then UCSF is a castle. It'll be silly to say there is no "UCSF bubble" of its own. Ask the UCSF med students. Ask the Stanford med students. Let me know if I am wrong.
But I will concede that, being on top of Mt. Pegasus, UCSF has hell of a view.
Of course, it's also easier to explore SF if you are in UCSF. But it dosnt take that long to get up to the city from Stanford either. With the new baby bullet train, the commute time will be drastically decreased.
Anyways, this is getting way too long. I think both schools are world-class, and to cherry-pick one point so one can argue that one school is better than the other amounts to nothing. I think we, as new med students, should humbly confess our ignorace. Really, are we qualified to say if one school has better clinical training or research or reputation if we havnt even started yet? Suggestions from a 4th year would probably be more credible, I think.
I dont think the OP can make a wrong decision with either school. Perhaps we can help the OP with comments about social life, location etc at each school, but please, dont make unwarranted and (often) false statements about academics if we dont really know what we are talking about. This might do the opposite of helping each other.
What exactly does better clinical training mean? If you mean it in terms of learning clinical procedures, a UCSF student or a Stanford student or a Hopkins student and so on will all learn how to insert NG tubes and IVs the same way. Just because UCSF's clinical sites are often right in a large city does not mean you'll learn these techniques any better. And if by better clinical training you mean more "exposure" to a variety of cases during your clerkship years, I still dont see the difference. The quality of your clinical training should depend mostly on how willing your attendings and residents want to TEACH you. Just because you stood around and saw a few more interesting cases at SF General than at Santa Clara Valley (one of Stanford's clinical rotation site) does not prepare you to be a better clinician. Having great residents as teachers will. As far as I am concerned, both UCSF and Stanford offer great clinical training. Furthermore, you can do away rotations during your clinical training. A stanford student can rotate at SF General, if you desire to see more "interesting cases."
Secondly, research. As a med student, will having more buildings or bigger lab spaces help you crank out more Science or Nature papers? Every bio-medical department at UCSF is world class. Certainly the same thing for Stanford. Both schools are powerhouses in research and are notoriously known for sucking in great researchers from other institutions. Here, for YOU as a med student, it should be about what YOUR research interests are. The researchers at UCSF psychiatry may not be doing things you are intereted in. Stanford cardiology may have no one doing what you want to do. And if you have no interest in research at all, would one school doing "more" research concern you in the end? Finally, about the funding. Stanford has less faculty members in the med school, so of course it receives less TOTAL funding than UCSF by the simple fact that less people are applying for grants. Neither UCSF nor Stanford will have to shut down labs or have blackouts to save money on electricity anytime soon. Here again, I dont see how one school getting more total research funding would change the quality of YOUR medical education/research.
Regarding "reputation," this is the first time I heard that UCSF has better reputation than Stanford within the field. I really have no idea where people get this from. If someone can enlighten me or show me evidence that this is the case (maybe let me know some discrepancies in match for students between both schools?) I'd love to know. UCSF/Stanford more prestigious than Podunk university maybe. UCSF more so than Stanford? This is a first for me. Maybe I dont know as many residency admissions officers as some of you guys do.
Personally, I think these Stanford vs. UCSF or Harvard vs. Hopkins arguments are meaningless. What I think will determine your decision, and to echo what some have been saying all along, are YOUR interests (research, possible field of choice etc...), the financial aid the schools give you, social life/settings, and the dynamics of your classmates. Arguments about "better clinical training" or "more research funding" seems silly to me, and are often false.
Also let me say that, contrary to what some posters have been suggesting, UCSF is not exactly situated in a ghetto or a hustle-bustle kind of place. Look at the neighborhoods around UCSF/golden gate park. If Stanford is a country club, then UCSF is a castle. It'll be silly to say there is no "UCSF bubble" of its own. Ask the UCSF med students. Ask the Stanford med students. Let me know if I am wrong.
But I will concede that, being on top of Mt. Pegasus, UCSF has hell of a view.
Of course, it's also easier to explore SF if you are in UCSF. But it dosnt take that long to get up to the city from Stanford either. With the new baby bullet train, the commute time will be drastically decreased.
Anyways, this is getting way too long. I think both schools are world-class, and to cherry-pick one point so one can argue that one school is better than the other amounts to nothing. I think we, as new med students, should humbly confess our ignorace. Really, are we qualified to say if one school has better clinical training or research or reputation if we havnt even started yet? Suggestions from a 4th year would probably be more credible, I think.
I dont think the OP can make a wrong decision with either school. Perhaps we can help the OP with comments about social life, location etc at each school, but please, dont make unwarranted and (often) false statements about academics if we dont really know what we are talking about. This might do the opposite of helping each other.
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Gleevec said:
"Curriculum- people harp on this, but curriculum is less important than GRADING. Do you find the grading to be more conducive to your learning at one school over the other?"
This is indisputable proof that you are indeed, clinically braindead. Both schools are Pass/Fail for the pre-clinical years so it makes no sense to even discuss grading as a factor in choosing between the two schools because the two schools are the SAME in this respect. In addition, you are such an idiot...the OP will get MUCH more personal attention from his professors if he chooses Stanford ...have you ever set foot on the UCSF campus? Have you ever sat in on classes there? It's like any other UC school..aka...a factory with little personal attention from professors UNLESS you're doing research.
The reason I know this is because I've been to UCSF and sat in on classes there because Dr. DeArmond (professor of neuroanatomy at UCSF) invited my graduate neuroanatomy class to sit in and look at their wet specimens, neuropathology lab, and other materials that are unavailable in the Berkeley lab.
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IndyZX said:
Ain't life grand?
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berkeleypremed - sorry to say, but i have to say that you have absolutely no idea what you are talking about. as a class we get a lot of attention, especially in the preclinical years. from advisory college parties, to small group sessions, to talking with lecturers following class...lots of attention. i went to berkeley as an undergrad and ucsf definitely does not feel the same. basing your decision by visiting our school to sit in on ONE class is not a very good idea. you made a huge generalization. how can you possibly decide that we get very little attention when you don't go here? you are transfering your feelings about berkeley on to ucsf, when you really haven't been provided the opportunity to truly see what ucsf is about. dr. dearmond doesn't even currently teach neuroanatomy to medical students so i'm not sure which class you sat in on. you obviously think that personal attention is incredibly important. is it possible that you are dissatisfied b/c you want too much attention? Could you be a narcicist?
IndyZX - taking graduate courses at berkeley isn' that big of a deal. most of the people in my department (including myself) did that as seniors when i went there. nothing to brag about.
i'd also say that many people in my class are either friends with, or dating, someone who goes to Stanford. we both get spoiled with attention in the first year. yes, they have more money when it comes to school parties, etc. - but both places provide students with a great learning and social environment. i'm an older student so all things like money for parties wasn't all that important to me anyway. the bottom line is that both school's are excellent and doesn't make a lot of sense to split hairs about who is better or worse.
the only thing i've heard more than a few times is this: word has it (could just be a rumor) that program directors at our school (and others) say that we are incredibly more prepared for residency b/c of the clinical training we receive as 3rd and 4th years. supposedly stanford's clinical training isn't as strong as ucsf's, but who knows if that is true. all that i know is that we pride ourselves on our clinical training and our training sites. from moffit hospital, to the va, to the county, to cpmc..we have a ton of opportunities to do procedures, admit patients, scrub in, etc. this big city is ours alone. i think there is something to be said about doing your clinical training at a large urban center.
again, i would like to say that you shouldn't take too seriously the people who make strong comments with little true experience. no offense to anyone, but premed students' information about programs is solely testamonial. and i would take incredibly emotional opinions with even more grains of salt. so the combination of an incredibly opiniated person who ALSO isn't even in medical school yet is one that should most likely be largely ignored.
try to talk to students at the schools that you are considering if you want true opinions. Stanfordgirl said some really interesting things and made some great points. you can't really say your school is better or worse until you go to both schools (and i don't mean sit in on a few classes).
in the end it is going to come down to where you think you'll be happiest and be able to achieve your personal goals and aspirations.
best of luck.
IndyZX - taking graduate courses at berkeley isn' that big of a deal. most of the people in my department (including myself) did that as seniors when i went there. nothing to brag about.
i'd also say that many people in my class are either friends with, or dating, someone who goes to Stanford. we both get spoiled with attention in the first year. yes, they have more money when it comes to school parties, etc. - but both places provide students with a great learning and social environment. i'm an older student so all things like money for parties wasn't all that important to me anyway. the bottom line is that both school's are excellent and doesn't make a lot of sense to split hairs about who is better or worse.
the only thing i've heard more than a few times is this: word has it (could just be a rumor) that program directors at our school (and others) say that we are incredibly more prepared for residency b/c of the clinical training we receive as 3rd and 4th years. supposedly stanford's clinical training isn't as strong as ucsf's, but who knows if that is true. all that i know is that we pride ourselves on our clinical training and our training sites. from moffit hospital, to the va, to the county, to cpmc..we have a ton of opportunities to do procedures, admit patients, scrub in, etc. this big city is ours alone. i think there is something to be said about doing your clinical training at a large urban center.
again, i would like to say that you shouldn't take too seriously the people who make strong comments with little true experience. no offense to anyone, but premed students' information about programs is solely testamonial. and i would take incredibly emotional opinions with even more grains of salt. so the combination of an incredibly opiniated person who ALSO isn't even in medical school yet is one that should most likely be largely ignored.
try to talk to students at the schools that you are considering if you want true opinions. Stanfordgirl said some really interesting things and made some great points. you can't really say your school is better or worse until you go to both schools (and i don't mean sit in on a few classes).
in the end it is going to come down to where you think you'll be happiest and be able to achieve your personal goals and aspirations.
best of luck.
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I know UCSF is a great school, but why do posters keep saying it's as good as Harvard or Hopkins? It's only in the Harvard/Hopkins league if you include UPenn, WashU, and the rest of the top ten in that league.
Mission Bay is an extensive project but UCSF needs it. It's current facilities are lacking. In addition similar, albeit smaller, projects are happening at many med schools across the country. UMichigan with the completion of it's Life Sciences corridor, the new med sci research building, and the new cardiovascular center (all to be completed soon or within the next couple of years), will be nearly doubling it's research capacity too. That doesn't make it Harvard.
Don't get me wrong, UCSF is an awesome school. A leader in many fields of medicine. But it's neither Harvard nor Hopkins. And yes, it will be affected by Cali budget cuts and it's students are expected to pay as much as 40% more in tuition.
Mission Bay is an extensive project but UCSF needs it. It's current facilities are lacking. In addition similar, albeit smaller, projects are happening at many med schools across the country. UMichigan with the completion of it's Life Sciences corridor, the new med sci research building, and the new cardiovascular center (all to be completed soon or within the next couple of years), will be nearly doubling it's research capacity too. That doesn't make it Harvard.
Don't get me wrong, UCSF is an awesome school. A leader in many fields of medicine. But it's neither Harvard nor Hopkins. And yes, it will be affected by Cali budget cuts and it's students are expected to pay as much as 40% more in tuition.
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For what it is worth I just made the decision and chose UCSF. They were both great schools and it was a difficult choice, but I wanted to live in SF. The suburbia of PA was not for me. Also, as a bottom line UCSF gave me money and Stanford did not (for that matter neither did Yale or P&S).
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souljah1 said:
I have no clue what DeArmond does there (I'm guessing he's primarily a researcher)...but he invited Dr. Marian Diamond (you might have heard of her) and her IB 245 class to come to UCSF to see their wet specimens, CAT scans, neuropath materials, etc. That's just the impression of UCSF that I got when I was there...that is...factory. In addition, I think have a bias against UC schools in general so I'll try to refrain from commenting on threads that are "private med school vs. UC med school" related. The actual medical campus itself actually seemed sort of like a huge, minimum-security prison.
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It seems like quite a few people are dissatisfied with their UC Undergrad experience. I went to one myself so I can say I feel the same as well. Sometimes it's not because the school doesn't want to care about you, but the sheer number of students and different departments make it extremely hard to get the attention that you need.
Often one has to jump through hoops and deal with the red tapes to get what you want. Classes are overpacked, and you truly get the feeling that you're alone even though you're constantly surrounded by people.
With that being said, I hope the professional schools will have a different environment...but then I'm not very optimistic.
Often one has to jump through hoops and deal with the red tapes to get what you want. Classes are overpacked, and you truly get the feeling that you're alone even though you're constantly surrounded by people.
With that being said, I hope the professional schools will have a different environment...but then I'm not very optimistic.
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souljah1 said:
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mdmike24 said:
UCSF, characteristic of a public school, despite being a powerhouse in medicine, has a unique humility that I did not see at the other top tier schools. Accordingly, it attracts students who share this humility. And, in my opinion, that's what makes UCSF so special. True, it's neither Harvard of Hopkins. But neither are UCSF.
Stanford's also a wonderful school, as everyone's been discussing. You won't go wrong with either.
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I actually spoke with some residency personnel of a certain department at UC Davis. And they claim that they do not look at applicants from Stanford AT ALL cause their "weird" grading system during the clinical years. Don't know if that means anything, but I would definitely look at the validity of that statement a little bit more before deciding between UCSF and Stanford. Cuz it can have significant impact down the road.
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babyface said:
I've heard this before but I'm not sure how much of it is rumor. If you look at Stanford's match list, you'll be more than impressed. It's one of the best in the country. If you want to do research, Stanford's the place to be. And for every term of research you do, they pay for a term of your tuition. You also get paid well for TAing.
yes indeedy .. going to head out west but would like to go east for residency (that's what i'm hoping for at this point) .. what school? i'd like to live on both coasts (okay not really, I really mean SF and NYC) before i'm too old to continue doing the things i currently like to do ..
i don't see many ppl from UCSF going to NYC but hopefully that's self-selection ..
i don't see many ppl from UCSF going to NYC but hopefully that's self-selection ..
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i am a stanford MS4, graduating in a week.
we match at the most competitive residency programs across the country, especially on the west coast:
http://deansnewsletter.stanford.edu/archive/2004_residency_match.html
i am glad you are interested in stanford. it was a wonderful experience.
we match at the most competitive residency programs across the country, especially on the west coast:
http://deansnewsletter.stanford.edu/archive/2004_residency_match.html
i am glad you are interested in stanford. it was a wonderful experience.
