Stanford vs Hopkins MSTP

[stressyanddepressy]

I know I am very fortunate to be in this situation, but I am having a lot of trouble deciding between Stanford and Hopkins for the MD/PhD programs. In summary, I love Hopkins as a school (quality of training and the topics emphasized in preclinical years) but really dislike Baltimore and haven’t gotten along with many students or applicants there. However, I have really vibed with almost every Stanford student and applicant I have met, and I love the campus and surrounding area, but my impression is that the clinical training is less strong. I think it is a cultural difference between the coasts, but I enjoy the outdoorsy, social, and interesting students that Stanford tends to attract. Both schools have plenty of PIs in my area of interest so research fit isn’t a concern. I would appreciate any insights. Thank you!



Stanford
Pros:

• Close to home
• Beautiful and safe campus
• Best fit/culture (vibed with other applicants and students)
• SF is nearby and I love cities
• Emphasis on student wellness is very apparent
• Many students take classes across the different schools since it is a true university on a single campus
• Flexibility enables time for research, shadowing, and extracurricular activities during preclinical years

Cons:

• Lower quality clinical education (have heard that this is improving but still behind Hopkins; a director told me that the goal at Stanford is to become an excellent scientist and perhaps learn a little medicine along the way...)
• COL - will need to rent an apartment for 8 years
• Palo Alto itself is a suburb and there’s not much to do
• Less diverse patient population

Johns Hopkins
Pros:

• Prestige within medicine
• Incredible breadth and depth of preclinical coursework
• Excellent hands-on clinical education
• Exposure to very diverse patient population within hospital
• COL - could buy a home!
• Brand new hospital and facilities

Cons:

• Really far from home
• Can be an unsafe area
• Not a fan of Baltimore
• Haven’t vibed with any students or applicants and the class seems less social overall

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[stm824]

Honestly, unless money is a big factor for you, Stanford seems like the obvious choice. Personally I think the only relevant thing to consider for preclinical is whether or not it's P/F and if there's internal ranking...the majority of preclinical content is the same at every school. While Hopkins mayyyybe has better clinical teaching, it's still Stanford, I'm sure their clinical teaching is more than good enough for anything you could possibly want to do clinically. Hopkins also might win in diverse patient populations, but is that worth sacrificing your happiness/fit/vibe?

This is coming from someone leaning Hopkins right now. I agree the groupme is kinda dead but I had a couple really fun calls in the second look socials (the vibes didn't rly feel any different from meeting people at another T5 school) and I'm hoping that maybe people are cool and just on the quieter side. That said, if you didn't vibe with a single admitted or current student, but did at Stanford, maybe it's just not your vibe and that's okay.

 

[Banco]

I mean, clinical education is going to be more or less similar - as a medical student that's really just your clerkships and electives. I can't imagine there is any significant difference between 95% of medical schools. You're going to be pretty equally unprepared come residency time. Same with "pre-clinical" coursework (I've never heard someone care about this lol)

As this is MSTP, shouldn't you be more deciding on the type of research, PIs etc.?

It's pretty obvious though that you prefer Stanford.

 

[fdgjfg]

As an M3, I can tell you that subtle differences in clinical education don't matter very much in medical school, as long as a certain quality threshold is reached (which both Hopkins and Stanford do of course achieve). Med school isn't where clinical education happens - residency is. School rotations are too brief and involve too little responsibility to actually learn much clinical medicine. That's not to say clerkships are pointless or that you don't learn, but your education is at a much more basic level - learning how to learn, in preparation for the actual educational experience (residency). If competency in clinical medicine is a growing plant, medical school rotations don't represent "sowing the seeds" - they represent "tilling the fields". Your objective as a student is to build a schematic framework on how the hospital functions, how you form a differential, how you discriminate between diagnoses, how to appropriately respond to patients, and how to write notes and other documents using the correct vocabulary. Residency involves filling in that schematic framework with the practical working knowledge. Accordingly, a subtle difference in clinical education matters more at the residency or fellowship selection points. As an MSTP, the nucleus of your scientific expertise will be built during your MD/PhD years, and then basically be put on life support for residency, which will be the nucleus of your clinical expertise. As a result, I think it's more important to prioritize where you'd like to do your scientific training.

I also find it's often appropriate to mark the more tangible considerations at higher value than the intangible, hypothetical ones. Once the shine wears off of a med school admission, you begin to realize that many places offer a very similar experience, and there is a relatively limited number of domains that can actually positively or negatively affect your experience . These are mostly 1) chill grading policies that reduce academic strain (e.g. no AOA, PF preclinical and clerkships, no rank); 2) boards prep (scheduling flexibility, study time, cohort performance); 3) residency placement; 4) quality of life (environment, housing, city life, etc), 5) limited checkbox-y requirements in 3rd/4th year. Beyond this, it doesn't really matter a whole lot because the information you're sampling is so noisy. You've noted a distinct preference in location, environment and student body - this is might not ultimately be correct (i.e. maybe you sampled a non-representative population of Hopkins people and your actual experience might not be like that), but it's a significantly more concrete point than a very abstract difference in clinical education. Given that you're about to sign on the dotted line for the next 7-10 years, I would go with your gut here.

 

[wondervisions]

Stanford

 

[stressyanddepressy]

Thank you all for your input! I’ll be going with my gut for this one

 

[RNARNARNA]

FWIW, current students debunked the "weak clinical training" at Stanford rumor at 2nd look (w/o any admins present). They said that the school just undersells their clinical training. PDs know that Stanford has solid clinical training and there are even some of those "early clinical experiences" that other schools have.

I'd replace that con with "less diverse patient population" because although you can rotate around the bay area, Palo Alto is like ~ 87% white or asian, 5% latinx/hispanic, and <2% black.