Stanford vs Yale

[QuantumExplorer42]

Hi Everyone,

I'm really struggling with making this decision, and only have until Tuesday. Also, this is for MD/PhD at both places!

Yale
Pros

• Loved my second look there everyone was SO nice and feel like I would fit in and be supported by admin
• The administration seems organized
• A lot closer to my family and friends from college (family 3 hours away and friends in NYC, Boston and VT)
• Yale system gives a lot of flexibility and seems like it makes people unstressed and happy
• My partner, who is also going into medicine but going to be two cycles behind me, has ties to Yale and the East Coast in general and seems like a safer choice for being geographically closer in the future
• The stipend can go a lot further, I can live alone comfortably
• A bigger cohort of around 20 students per year

Cons

• Only 1-2 PIs doing the type of research I want to do and Yale in general is not as strong in this area
• I do really love the outdoors, especially to destress, and the access to hiking/biking/skiing is not terrible but not as good as Stanford
• I know less about Yale than Stanford so am worried I am getting an idealized view of it from my visit without all the info/drawbacks

Stanford
Pros

• Is the leader of the field in the type of research I want to do and I loved the PIs I have met with doing it
• I have been living in the area currently and am very happy here. Have made a lot of friends and have built a small community here as well (though most of these people are not planning on being here for 8 more years)
• Discovery curriculum is also super flexible

Cons

• Vibes seemed a bit off during my second look, and I think I could fit in, but I didn't feel as welcomed as during my Yale visit
• Admin seems a bit more disorganized, and students mentioned you really have to advocate for yourself a lot / be very self-directed
• Going back to grading during clinical years (though could that change 7 years from now probably lol)
• A lot further from my family and friends
• Harder for my partner to get in and there are not many other schools close by (UCSF and UC Davis but he's not a CA resident)

Summary: I feel like people always say research fit should be the main deciding factor when picking an MSTP and that alone I would choose Stanford but when I take into account everything all together I find myself leaning towards Yale. Would love any help and insight!

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[mintuition02]

Go to stanford

 

[liketb12]

I've seen a couple of these here for MD-PhD programs and am gonna reiterate what EVERYONE has a consensus on. Research fit is king - otherwise there's really no point in the MD-PhD unless you're wanting to dilute & pivot what you want to do. Research fit is so SO important for your MD-PhD & is what should drive lists in the first place - this is the reason why MD admissions is diff to md/phd. If the leaders of your field are here and there's multiple PIs that you would be able to do this with in a innovative and revolutionary way at Stanford, IMO that's what will shape and drive the rest of your career!! It doesn't make any sense to go somewhere and conduct a whole ass PhD and spend 4 extra years to produce work in a field/area that is less aligned with what you actually want to do. Your scientific 'family' is more important than anything else as that will influence EVERYTHING from your papers, grants, future direction/lab, residency, fellowships, etc.

You're definitely getting an idealized version of Yale - that's the point of second looks haha. I can DM you more about Yale but it seems like you would be able to thrive remaining in Palo Alto. Stanford is an awesome & chill place and from those I know there, get so much support and have a lot more unity. The people there are super cool and seem unstressed. Also UCSF is not for residents only but on top of that, your partner could get residency after 1 year and have in state preference. There's way more schools there than there are in New Haven so if anything I see this as a pro?

Also on the contrary, you have to be super self-directed at Yale more than any other place. It has the highest proportion of any MD-PhD program of students doing >9+ years. They also don't actively pull students back out of the PhD & there's way less checks in place to make sure you're doing well (on both the PhD side and the MD side because of the Yale System). This is one of the complaints there on the MD-PhD side of things that I've seen very regularly on here and from people I know there (both current & graduates of the program), as well as MD resulting in less robust clinical training too. So definitely keep that in mind.

IMO Stanford is a much stronger program and has a proven track record of producing the top & highest funded physician-scientists in the field so you should go with that, but above all, follow your research fit!!

 

[hydroflaskhomie]

As a Yale student, I think it's great here but I also agree that research fit seems to be a good reason to go elsewhere. However, I think your pros are spot on!

I think the schools for your partner consideration is a real/not-insigificant thing to consider - you're going to have a wider variety of other med schools to aim for in the Northeast opposed to California, especially with the added difficulty of trying to break into Cali as a non-resident. Trains are also nice to connect the vast majority of major cities out here.

All that being said, I still think I would counsel you to go to Stanford from this post just because of MD-PhD reasons. Clinical grading sucks but your PhD should let you match kinda wherever you want regardless.

Also as a quick tip to anyone reading these posts, try to talk to verified current students at these schools before taking anything as gospel. Anyone can say anything online and they might have undisclosed intentions to sway you in certain directions Specifically, I wouldn't call our clinical training less robust and I think there are some misconceptions about our hospital system that I saw even when I was applying 3-4 years ago.

Additionally, this is a complex topic but I think that the reason that so many MD-PhD students take longer here is similar to the reason that a lot of us take fifth years (I personally am not and am applying into a "competitive specialty"): it's because of the opportunities here and not any sort of requirement/perceived necessity. We're pretty laid back and chill in general, and the bonus of our structure is that if you see something you want to do and you want to complete your education on a different timeline, the support is there for that.

Happy to answer any other questions but I think you wouldn't be making a wrong choice either way - BUT, the research point makes me think Stanford for you depending on what the field is (and also, is Yale expecting to expand etc) - so enjoy the sun ☀️