State Psych License Question

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jseakoi

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I am trying to get licensed in a state that only requires post doc hours.

I have a PsyD in Family Therapy (not APA accredited obviously) so all of my pre doc hours were not supervised by psychologists. However, I am able to obtain post doc hours under the supervision of a psychologist.

I really do not care which state it is as long as they allow collecting hours out of state. Any advice?

Thanks!
 
I'm a little confused. Where do you want to work? I ask because it's generally a good idea to get licensed in the state in which you intend to practice.
 
Any state will still have certain requirements that your program will have to meet. I'm not sure you can be licensed as a psychologist with a degree in family therapy and having never done training under the supervision of a psychologist.

My thinking as well. I don't know of any states that only require postdoc hours (i.e., I believe every state requires that you pass the EPPP). Likewise, as psycscientist mentioned, I also don't know of any states that would license an individual as a psychologist without having obtained psychologist-supervised predoctoral hours, to include the equivalent of a one-year, full-time internship.

On the flip side, I believe every state allows accumulation of postdoc hours out of state, so long as the supervision setup (e.g., credentials of person supervising, hours of supervising provided, services provided) meets the licensing state's standards.
 
If the OP has a doctoral in MFT…that is not the same as Clinical/Counseling Psychology. They would be pursuing licensure as an MFT and not as a psychologist. The EPPP wouldn't apply to them because that is specific to psychology and not to MFT, though I'm not sure if the MFT licensure has a required written exam (i.e. their own version of the EPPP for their discipline).
 
If the OP has a doctoral in MFT…that is not the same as Clinical/Counseling Psychology. They would be pursuing licensure as an MFT and not as a psychologist. The EPPP wouldn't apply to them because that is specific to psychology and not to MFT, though I'm not sure if the MFT licensure has a required written exam (i.e. their own version of the EPPP for their discipline).

Actually, you can be licensed as a Psychologist if you attended an MFT doctoral program, however that program has to be designed for licensure as both an MFT and a Psychologist, meaning the necessary clinical courses that most states require. A pre-doctoral Internship of 1500 hours should be included (not APA usually) and you should be supervised by a licensed psychologist. My program required both an AAMFT supervisor and practicum for doctoral hours as well as a licensed supervising psychologist that met state requirements.

What will really trip up the OP is the absence of the pre-doctoral hours supervised by a licensed psychologist. I am not sure you can work around this with only post-doctoral hours.

Many of my colleagues have a doctoral MFT and are licensed in the state of California and perhaps other states if they have met the requirements.
 
All I can say to this about the OP and doctoral MFT and non-APA and AAMFT is WTF!
If you want to be a psychologist go to an APA-accredited school and attend an APA-accredited internship and complete a year of supervised post-doc training that meets or exceeds the standards for your state, pass the EPPP, and then you can get a license and call yourself that. If you are a marriage counselor, then don't try to pretend to be a clinical psychologist when you are not and get frustrated because they won't change their rules fto make you one. I am willing to bet that the OP's supposed PsyD in family therapy was online.
 
I know of some States where doctoral trained MFT who have completed a predoctoral internship and postdoctoral year of training under the training of a Psychologist may then apply and be licensed as Psychologist. There are many Psychologist who are licensed as Psychologist and MFT and they primarily do Family Therapy while supervising both Psychologist and MFT at both the MS and Doctoral levels. It depends on the State but I know in Texas a number of Psychologist have MFT credentials but many of them became licensed 20 to 30 years ago so it could be different now.
 
I know of some States where doctoral trained MFT who have completed a predoctoral internship and postdoctoral year of training under the training of a Psychologist may then apply and be licensed as Psychologist..

APPIC Internship?
How did they meet the requirements for psychologists being from an MFT?

I've read through more than a dozen different state laws (and related regulations by each state board) and every single one of them lists out classes/competency areas….none of which were MFT. This doesn't sound right.
 
Wait - why aren't you pursuing a license in MFT? Wasn't that the focus of your program?

You can go to the ASPPB's web site (asppb.net) and look up requirements for licensure as a psychologist in each state. If you have never looked these up, this is a good place to start. You can then call the licensing boards of any states that might be possibilities. Frankly, though, I would be surprised if you were qualified to become licensed as a psychologist in any state if you were basically trained as an MFT.
 
I believe some States Psychology Board will review transcripts for individuals who are from a non psychology program. So say you completed the MS degree in clinical psychology but for some reason you did not continue with the PsyD/PhD and you worked for a number of years. You then returned to a PsyD program in MFT and completed practicum, predoctoral, and postdoctoral under the supervision of a Psychologist who was a MFT. You can then request for the board to review your training and experience and they may provide you options to gain licensure as a psychologist.

Remember when you were doing your practicum rotations and often there were PsyD MFT or MS level LPC doing practicum placements at the same facility and they were all being supervised by the same supervisors and having group supervision by the same supervisor! A number of States allow Psychologist to supervise MFT and LPC and some are able to include these hours in both their LMFT license application and their Psychologist application.

It was only until about the last 15-20 years that States began having LMFT Boards so now it does not make much sense to try to be licensed as a psychologist if you have MFT training and want to be a MFT. I would think you would go the route of being licensed as a MFT. In the old days, 20 or more years ago, Psychologist were able to do family and marital therapy without further training, but now in many States the MFT Board has restrictions on using the title of family or marital therapist unless you hold licensure under their board. In my State, Psychologist are not able to use the title family or marital therapy but can use relationship therapy.

I question how someone could have already completed the PsyD degree in MFT and not know that most states have MFT licensure and that normally you would not be qualified to become a licensed psychologist. Certainly you were aware of the differences when you went through your PsyD training in MFT?
 
I believe some States Psychology Board will review transcripts for individuals who are from a non psychology program. So say you completed the MS degree in clinical psychology but for some reason you did not continue with the PsyD/PhD and you worked for a number of years. You then returned to a PsyD program in MFT and completed practicum, predoctoral, and postdoctoral under the supervision of a Psychologist who was a MFT. You can then request for the board to review your training and experience and they may provide you options to gain licensure as a psychologist.

Remember when you were doing your practicum rotations and often there were PsyD MFT or MS level LPC doing practicum placements at the same facility and they were all being supervised by the same supervisors and having group supervision by the same supervisor! A number of States allow Psychologist to supervise MFT and LPC and some are able to include these hours in both their LMFT license application and their Psychologist application.

It was only until about the last 15-20 years that States began having LMFT Boards so now it does not make much sense to try to be licensed as a psychologist if you have MFT training and want to be a MFT. I would think you would go the route of being licensed as a MFT. In the old days, 20 or more years ago, Psychologist were able to do family and marital therapy without further training, but now in many States the MFT Board has restrictions on using the title of family or marital therapist unless you hold licensure under their board. In my State, Psychologist are not able to use the title family or marital therapy but can use relationship therapy.

I question how someone could have already completed the PsyD degree in MFT and not know that most states have MFT licensure and that normally you would not be qualified to become a licensed psychologist. Certainly you were aware of the differences when you went through your PsyD training in MFT?
This whole mess of an explanation points out the problem with this. It is a setup for misrepresentation, blurring of the lines, and confusing the public. OND can't you see that? 🙁
 
Schools that close have better standards than apa accredited ones!

Psychologists are any mental health professional with a doctorate!

I make 200k and my take home is 15k/month because math and taxes!

Ridiculous.
 
Lets just end this, because it has become way more complex than needs to be thanks to the ever accurate @OneNeuroDoctor.

So here:
Family therapy, also referred to as couple and family therapy, marriage and family therapy, family systems therapy, and family counseling, is a branch of psychotherapy that works with families and couples in intimate relationships to nurture change and development.

Clinical and Counseling Psychology is an integration of the science, theory and clinical knowledge for the purpose of understanding, preventing, and relieving psychologically-based distress or dysfunction and to promote subjective and behavioral well-being and personal development.

WTF is so hard about this?! There is not really any wiggle room here.
 
A Psy.D….by definition…is a doctorate of psychology, no? How the heck can they use that for an MFT?! I can guess their thinking, "Well, a Ph.D. (even a piss poor version of one) will scare off the 'research/stats are icky!' crowd…so let's use the Psy.D. and say it is for people who want to do clinical work and not be researchers (further reinforcing that false dichotomy)."

The more I learn about Alliant, Argosy, et al…the more pissed off I become that ANY of their programs ever were granted APA-acred. They are literally creating degrees regardless of an actual need.
 
I believe some States Psychology Board will review transcripts for individuals who are from a non psychology program. So say you completed the MS degree in clinical psychology but for some reason you did not continue with the PsyD/PhD and you worked for a number of years. You then returned to a PsyD program in MFT and completed practicum, predoctoral, and postdoctoral under the supervision of a Psychologist who was a MFT. You can then request for the board to review your training and experience and they may provide you options to gain licensure as a psychologist.

Remember when you were doing your practicum rotations and often there were PsyD MFT or MS level LPC doing practicum placements at the same facility and they were all being supervised by the same supervisors and having group supervision by the same supervisor! A number of States allow Psychologist to supervise MFT and LPC and some are able to include these hours in both their LMFT license application and their Psychologist application.

It was only until about the last 15-20 years that States began having LMFT Boards so now it does not make much sense to try to be licensed as a psychologist if you have MFT training and want to be a MFT. I would think you would go the route of being licensed as a MFT. In the old days, 20 or more years ago, Psychologist were able to do family and marital therapy without further training, but now in many States the MFT Board has restrictions on using the title of family or marital therapist unless you hold licensure under their board. In my State, Psychologist are not able to use the title family or marital therapy but can use relationship therapy.

I question how someone could have already completed the PsyD degree in MFT and not know that most states have MFT licensure and that normally you would not be qualified to become a licensed psychologist. Certainly you were aware of the differences when you went through your PsyD training in MFT?

Nothing in this post makes anything close to sense.

You consistently come on the board and outright make things up, and present them as facts. Or, you assert that you "know some people" who had some ridiculous, otherworldly thing happen to them in training.

You remind me of that 4400 nutjob who was on a while back. Who was also from Texas....
 
"Remember when you were doing your practicum rotations and often there were PsyD MFT or MS level LPC doing practicum placements at the same facility and they were all being supervised by the same supervisors and having group supervision by the same supervisor! "

This never happened in my training. Ever. I haven't even heard of this happening.
 
A Psy.D….by definition…is a doctorate of psychology, no? How the heck can they use that for an MFT?! I can guess their thinking, "Well, a Ph.D. (even a piss poor version of one) will scare off the 'research/stats are icky!' crowd…so let's use the Psy.D. and say it is for people who want to do clinical work and not be researchers (further reinforcing that false dichotomy)."

The more I learn about Alliant, Argosy, et al…the more pissed off I become that ANY of their programs ever were granted APA-acred. They are literally creating degrees regardless of an actual need.

I know exactly what this is about. You see this on LinkedIn. People that are "Dr. {LastName}". And they make their profile look like they're a psychologist. They've got a Ph.D. But their license is based on their masters degree. They just went on and got a phd /psyd so they could intentionally call themselves "doctor" (blegh) and mislead all their patients. I met him last year (actually and interviewed to work for his private practice) and as I'm leaving, I see that he as a framed deal that reads that he's a psychologist. I knew his credentials so I knew it was a phony. That make not working with/for him a super easy decision. Not even getting into that.
 
Nothing in this post makes anything close to sense.

You consistently come on the board and outright make things up, and present them as facts. Or, you assert that you "know some people" who had some ridiculous, otherworldly thing happen to them in training.

You remind me of that 4400 nutjob who was on a while back. Who was also from Texas....
It was 4410. So sad we haven't all been similarly enlightened until recently.
 
It was 4410. So sad we haven't all been similarly enlightened until recently.
I was just reading some of the posts from 4410. He was banned before I found this site but there are some striking similarities. One is the misuse of capitals (bolding added):
Actually, if you have ever had medical treatment at a Teaching Hospital as I have and my children have, it is more common for MD's, residents, and fellows to be foreign doctors.

It just seems highly hippocritical for a foreign student to take the lead against APA in a petition about the shortage of internships in the USA. Why in the world would you come to America for graduate school training if you don't like the American System of Democracy and free enterprise.
Because the average person has limited knowledge about the field of clinical neuropsychology and Board Certification, it is important to have State Psychology Boards regulate the field of clinical neuropsychology.

The other is the mixing together of different degrees in a confusing way:
I believe some of the confusion lies with there being doctoral level trained LPC and School Psychologists as well as master's prepared clinical psychology programs and doctoral level clinical psychology programs. Some of the confusion entails what is required to engage in independent practice or unsupervised clinical practice. Normally master's level clinical psychology students are able to gain licensure with the requirement of supervision, but this does not mean they are not able to apply for LPC or School Psychology licensure with their master's level clinical psychology degree. There is a great deal of overlap of MS in community counseling degree, EdS in school psychology degree, and PhD/PsyD in clinical psychology degree, PhD/PsyD in counseling psychology, PhD/PsyD/EdD degree in school psychology, and PhD/PsyD/EdD degree in counseling.
I believe some States Psychology Board will review transcripts for individuals who are from a non psychology program. So say you completed the MS degree in clinical psychology but for some reason you did not continue with the PsyD/PhD and you worked for a number of years. You then returned to a PsyD program in MFT and completed practicum, predoctoral, and postdoctoral under the supervision of a Psychologist who was a MFT. You can then request for the board to review your training and experience and they may provide you options to gain licensure as a psychologist.

Remember when you were doing your practicum rotations and often there were PsyD MFT or MS level LPC doing practicum placements at the same facility and they were all being supervised by the same supervisors and having group supervision by the same supervisor! A number of States allow Psychologist to supervise MFT and LPC and some are able to include these hours in both their LMFT license application and their Psychologist application.

I think you guys might be right that it is the same person.
 
I am trying to get licensed in a state that only requires post doc hours.

I have a PsyD in Family Therapy (not APA accredited obviously) so all of my pre doc hours were not supervised by psychologists. However, I am able to obtain post doc hours under the supervision of a psychologist.

I really do not care which state it is as long as they allow collecting hours out of state. Any advice?

Thanks!
Wisconsin, only requires 1-year post-doc experience...it may change this year to allow accredited internships to count as supervised requirement.
 
You have to have a doctorate in psychology and have done a total of 3000 hours, 1500 of which are after and 1500 of which are before the doctorate, supervised by a doctoral level psychologist: http://dsps.wi.gov/Default.aspx?Page=8996eee5-e34f-41f0-8667-c665214f92d3

WI board proposed a changed to that on 2/3/16 to one year post doc only...they don't seem to care abt earlier set experiences/internships
http://dsps.wi.gov/Documents/Board ...Psychology/2016/20160203_PSY_Open_Session.pdf

I plan to challenge the board/legislatures process.
 
Seems that California and other states have or had some provisions for individuals having PhD\PsyD in family therapy gaining licensure as a psychologist. California laws changed in 2001 and now you have to have a PhD, PsyD, or EdD in psychology and they do not accept equivalent programs.

In one of the states where I am licensed, a graduate of Alliant PsyD program in family therapy was licensed as a psychologist and BCBA in California. However, when she applied in the state where I am licensed, the Psychology Board did not accept her degree program as being equivalent and they denied her application. The Board does accept PsyD clinical psychology applicants from Alliant, but PsyD family therapy applicants from Alliant are licensed through the LPC\LMFT Board.

She applied in an adjoining state and they approved her program as equivalent and she was licensed in that state as a psychologist. Her husband was in the military and he was transferred from California and this was the reason she was applying for licensure in other state.

My input for the original poster is licensure laws vary. Most states require psychology degree and MFT are not equivalent and the applicant is recommended to apply through MFT Board. As a general rule family therapy licensure is under LMFT Boards instead of Psychology Boards. With your PsyD in family therapy you would be eligible for MFT licensure.
 
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Good way to make friends...

not reason to be afraid.. thts the same mentality tht enables board to overreach their powers and go unquestioned at the consumers expense... supreme court agreed in 2015

(North Carolina Board of Dental Examiners v. Federal Trade Commision)
 
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And ensure that the board never hassles you in the future.

they may try n retaliate, state boards are no longer immune to litigation

that of fear is what attitude enables boards to overreach their powers and go unquestioned at our expense... supreme court agreed in 2015

(NC Board of Dental Examiners v. Federal Trade Commision)
 
This is an old thread after re-reading it. Sound like I am being compared with a poster 4400 or 4410. LOL... Sound like they must have been disliked and were banned. Although I am from Texas, I can assure you I am not 4400 or 4410. Strange to have numbers as a user name. Grammar Police even exists on message boards.

To the original poster--- Have you applied for MFT licensure or psychology licensure? Since this is an old thread, I would be interested to know the outcome.

From my experience with psychology board applications, it's very difficult to become licensed without completion of APA accredited program and APA accredited internship. Some Psychology Boards will reject applicants who graduate from APA accredited programs that use distant learning cohort model such as Fielding Institute or programs that are not completed within seven-year timeline.

Normally ones postdoctoral training needs prior approval by the psychology board and you are not allowed to complete a postdoc and then ask for approval by the Psychology Board. You would have to repeat the postdoctoral training with Psychology Board approval and turn in quarterly logs unless you apply to states where a postdoc is not required, as in Washington, Alabama, and Arizona.
 
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Story time: I can sometimes be a hothead. Something happened in my state board, with which I was unhappy. I was stupid enough to relay my opinions via letter to the board. When my license renewal came about, I was "randomly" selected for further review of my CEs. Not a huge thing, but it was a hassle. When I requested license verification be sent to another state for a legal case, guess how quickly that got done?
 
not reason to be afraid.. thts the same mentality tht enables board to overreach their powers and go unquestioned at the consumers expense... supreme court agreed in 2015

(North Carolina Board of Dental Examiners v. Federal Trade Commision)
they may try n retaliate, state boards are no longer immune to litigation

that of fear is what attitude enables boards to overreach their powers and go unquestioned at our expense... supreme court agreed in 2015

(NC Board of Dental Examiners v. Federal Trade Commision)

This is all fine. But most people have family's to support and dont have time for such nonsense, or for taking on such risk, legal bills, delays in working/employment, bridge burning, lack of networking etc. I am one such person.
 
This is all fine. But most people have family's to support and dont have time for such nonsense, or for taking on such risk, legal bills, delays in working/employment, bridge burning, lack of networking etc. I am one such person.

we all like to spend our time differently...psychology, SDN boards, politics, eBay...
 
WI board proposed a changed to that on 2/3/16 to one year post doc only...they don't seem to care abt earlier set experiences/internships
http://dsps.wi.gov/Documents/Board Services/Agenda Materials/Psychology/2016/20160203_PSY_Open_Session.pdf

I plan to challenge the board/legislatures process.

I am running into this obstacle. They require one year of postdoc experience upon conferral of degree. The issue is that my fellowship started in July 2015 (ends in July 2016) and my degree was not conferred until August 2015 (my university confers degrees 3 times per year). Therefore, the WI board requested that I "stay on" at my postdoc so I can gain another month of postdoc to make it to August. This is not doable for me as I am in a formal postdoc that has a new cohort the day after I depart.

I am highly considering becoming licensed in the state I registered for the EPPP and then transferring my license to WI. I talked to the WI board and this seems to be an acceptable practice. Are there any risks with this method?
 
The quickest way right now is to get it from another state (even if it's w/o post-docs hrs) then transfer it locally (yes, non-sense). So if you do that...you'll be ok in WI only (or federal).
Here..after 60 business days w/o a decision on your application, you can request a hearing with the ALJ and contest it. Since they don't want all the recently exposed info on the record, an informal settlement may be offered. To circumvent that, the Board recently cancelled all meetings until the end of August, in hopes they get their new proposed rule (post-doc only) approved by July (it's being contested as well). They want you to complete post-doc because of their interests w/ ASPPB. You may need an Administrative law lawyer, if not too comfortable in quasi-court setting and the statute vs. rule scheme by state boards, but still doable. This article may help you present your case.. if you so choose to go the brave way.
 
Will the WI board be ok with me blatantly working around this obstacle: getting licensed in the state I am registered for the EPPP and then applying for WI licensure (to work around their postdoc rule)? They told a friend of mine that this is not a problem. However, part of me is concerned that my transparency with them will be held against me. Perhaps I am being a bit paranoid.
 
Give them the information they ask for (in the application for reciprocity) and u should b fine... Their new form is straight forward and 100x better than last one. Instead of your supervised experience, you'll have to show 40hrs of CE w/in the last 2 years. Their CE rules were also changed recently and pretty much anything counts....supervision..publications...peer reviews... Piece of Cake.:asshat:
 
The form seems to indicate that they want CE hours OR provide evidence of taking the EPPP (provide scores). I just took a brief look at this, perhaps I am wrong.
 
Just to clarify - I take the EPPP next week, I finish my postdoc in July, plan to immediately apply for licensure in the state I am registered for the EPPP (PA), and then will immediately transfer my license to WI. The board indicated that all applications go on a "case by case basis", I hope they will allow my method. Thoughts?
 
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