Stats for MD

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JohnMD34

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So I realize getting into an MD school is much more than just having a high gpa and mcat.
However, I was curious as to what are the more minimum basic stats needed to get into an MD, as opposed to a DO.

I would assume it's probably around 3.5 and a 28 for lower end MDs, but again I'm sure there are exceptions.

What do YOU think?


I ask this because things have changed alot since I attended medical school and I wanted to hear what the newer generation thinks.
 
JohnMD34 said:
So I realize getting into an MD school is much more than just having a high gpa and mcat.
However, I was curious as to what are the more minimum basic stats needed to get into an MD, as opposed to a DO.

I would assume it's probably around 3.5 and a 28 for lower end MDs, but again I'm sure there are exceptions.

What do YOU think?


I ask this because things have changed alot since I attended medical school and I wanted to hear what the newer generation thinks.
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https://www.aamc.org/download/321494/data/2012factstable17.pdf Average stats of both applicants and matriculated students for GPA and MCAT across the years for MD schools.

Pulled it out if you can't open pdfs: It's a 3.68 and 31.2 for matriculants.
 
JohnMD34 said:
So I realize getting into an MD school is much more than just having a high gpa and mcat.
However, I was curious as to what are the more minimum basic stats needed to get into an MD, as opposed to a DO.

I would assume it's probably around 3.5 and a 28 for lower end MDs, but again I'm sure there are exceptions.

What do YOU think?


I ask this because things have changed alot since I attended medical school and I wanted to hear what the newer generation thinks.
Click to expand...

I think 3.5 and a 28 MCAT is too low for even lower end MDs...sure maybe the bottom 10% but average is def higher...it's really tough to get into schools and if you have a 3.5/28 you def need very strong ECs (research, leadership, volunteering)
 
I had a 3.7 and 28 MCAT with 5 years experience as an EMT, research, and a publication but had no shot at an MD program. That friggen MCAT!! lol.
 
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28 is usually too low unless you have a lot of state schools. In Florida and Texas you could probably get a couple if interviews to MD programs if everything else is in check. I had a 27 and had 3 md interviews in tx and one at Tcom with a 3.6 gpa. I know several people that have gotten in with high 20s in tx but their gpa is usually higher than mine. For California a 28 would not cut it. I've seen people get into low/mid tier md schools with a 27 to 29 mcat but usually they are urm, have amazing Ecs, or have unique circumstances like socioeconomic disadvantages.
 
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Friend. State school (allopathic). 3.85 GPA. 24 MCAT. How? Idk.
 
Per, AAMC data a person with 3.4-3.6 GPA and 27-29 MCAT has a 36% chance of getting in somewhere- more than zero, but not a great chance. It seems a decent cutoff, although you could go a little lower. Additionally, a higher MCAT in some cases can allow for a lower GPA and vice versa.
 
From surveying the "2012-2013 Panic Thread" and "What Are My Chances?" threads, it seems that 30 and 3.5 is a dangerous place to be these days. Even people in this stat range who applied broadly and appropriately are hearing a lot of silence. I had a 31 and 3.98 and got just 1 MD acceptance (and 1 MD interview, for that matter.) Honestly, to feel secure, an otherwise well-rounded applicant needs like a 34 and 3.8. Some will say these are high standards, but I have nothing else to go by. I mean, look at me. I worked so hard and barely made it.
 
3.7, 28 MCAT, 4 years licensed Radiologic Technologist, 4 years primary care exposure, and many EC's. Have to compensate somewhere lol Accepted December 2012, though.
 
It's definitely a huge roll of the dice with those stats.

There are lots of people in the 3.5+ with 30+ MCAT and great ECs that are not getting acceptances every year. It is possible to get in with those stats, however it just isn't that likely.
 
EarthtoneJon said:
From surveying the "2012-2013 Panic Thread" and "What Are My Chances?" threads, it seems that 30 and 3.5 is a danger place to be these days. Even people in this stat range who applied broadly and appropriately are hearing a lot of silence. I had a 31 and 3.98 and got just 1 MD acceptance. Honestly, to feel secure, an otherwise well-rounded applicant needs like a 34 and 3.8. Some will say these are high standards, but I have nothing else to go by. I mean, look at me. I worked so hard and barely made it.
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It seems like its getting crazy, I'm thankful to have gotten in anywhere to be honest... just happy to be pursuing my dream (and i did end up attending a decent DO school... I don't want to do any crazy subspecialty so to me the DO route is more than fine). Congrats on your work and your acceptance tho... it's a shame that we work so hard and perform so well only to have limited opportunities, but hey there's a lot of qualified people out there it seems!
 
Lysilegluleu said:
Friend. State school (allopathic). 3.85 GPA. 24 MCAT. How? Idk.
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Hahah, hey don't fight it. Congrats.

My pre-med adviser basically told me flat out I had no chance at any MD schools... I did apply to a few (heard nothing), but admittedly didn't apply to a million places because I wanted to stay in my specific geographic area so that may have limited me. A buddy of mine who graduated with me had a 3.8 and a 32 and also didn't hear back from any MD programs.
 
Friend. 3.81 GPA 26 MCAT--- 1 MD 2 DO acceptances
 
Mataska said:
3.7, 28 MCAT, 4 years licensed Radiologic Technologist, 4 years primary care exposure, and many EC's. Have to compensate somewhere lol Accepted December 2012, though.
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Long shot, but you're not from Kansas are you? I wouldn't call you out but I knew a guy with a very similar background.
 
The stats are scary. I would say don't apply MD with anything less than a 27 and don't apply DO with anything less than a 24-25. With that said you would have to have a strong clinical background. I know multiple people who have gotten MD interviews with 22 MCATs and others who interview and were accepted to MD programs with 25 MCAT it happens, just not often.
 
Lysilegluleu said:
Long shot, but you're not from Kansas are you? I wouldn't call you out but I knew a guy with a very similar background.
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I really don't think this is a long shot at all. People I think extremely downplay how great of an advantage it is to have a clinical background. As long as you know how it talk about it in your application and interviews. I really don't think you would have trouble finding an MD spot. When you can talk about real world clinical scenarios, issues in healthcare, and multidisciplinary care it makes a world of difference. I'd say be confident about your healthcare background and let that show in your application materials, show them that is how you know you want to be a physician and why you can bring great skills to the student body. Good luck!

I see that you have gotten in, but same goes for anyone in similar shoes.
 
Stats are important but its not all about stats. As an ORM, I got 9 MD interviews (two top 30 USNWR) and 4 acceptances so far out of 7 interviews attended all with a LizzyM of under 66. Those without stellar stats can play up their strengths and use tricks to make their application "pop" out more to the reader.

The whole process is just a game. Everyone has a different starting hand but it depends on how well you play it.
 
dgsilvervid said:
I really don't think this is a long shot at all. People I think extremely downplay how great of an advantage it is to have a clinical background. As long as you know how it talk about it in your application and interviews. I really don't think you would have trouble finding an MD spot. When you can talk about real world clinical scenarios, issues in healthcare, and multidisciplinary care it makes a world of difference. I'd say be confident about your healthcare background and let that show in your application materials, show them that is how you know you want to be a physician and why you can bring great skills to the student body. Good luck!
Click to expand...

This. Spot on. I am blessed to be a testament to this.
 
JohnMD34 said:
So I realize getting into an MD school is much more than just having a high gpa and mcat.
However, I was curious as to what are the more minimum basic stats needed to get into an MD, as opposed to a DO.

I would assume it's probably around 3.5 and a 28 for lower end MDs, but again I'm sure there are exceptions.

What do YOU think?


I ask this because things have changed alot since I attended medical school and I wanted to hear what the newer generation thinks.
Click to expand...

The lowest end MD schools have stats like DO schools.

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MedPR said:
The lowest end MD schools have stats like DO schools.

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Click to expand...

Not from that stats that I've seen. GPA ranges may be around the same for low tier MD vs high tier DO, but MCAT ranges are definitely higher for even the lower tier MD schools.

From personal experience on the boards and browsing through MDapps, it seems that MCAT weeds out a lot of people from going MD, but GPA not so much. People with a ~3.0-3.1 ish GPA but with a stellar MCAT has a better shot of making an MD program than say a 3.9/26.
 
cest la vie said:
Not from that stats that I've seen. GPA ranges may be around the same for low tier MD vs high tier DO, but MCAT ranges are definitely higher for even the lower tier MD schools.

From personal experience on the baords and browsing through MDpps, it seems that MCAT weeds out a lot of people from going MD, but GPA not so much. People with a ~3.0-3.1 ish GPA but with a stellar MCAT can still make it into an MD program, but if you're dealing with a 3.9/26 it's much more unheard of.
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Look at the MSAR for the HBCUs.

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MedPR said:
Look at the MSAR for the HBCUs.

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Maybe for the HBCUs but I didn't count them into the equation because they target widely different demographics and are focused on recruiting students that fit their mission.
 
cest la vie said:
Maybe for the HBCUs but I didn't count them into the equation because they target widely different demographics and are focused on recruiting students that fit their mission.
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Just because you don't count them doesn't mean they aren't US MD schools.

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MedPR said:
The lowest end MD schools have stats like DO schools.

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Click to expand...

Mostly yeah. Only a point or two below in MCAT avgs nowadays. In fact I would expect somewhere like OU-HCOM to be better than a few MD schools in the near future. MCAT scores are rising fast over there. With the school's brand on the rise they get a lot of applicants who also applied to all the Ohio MD programs and want to stay in state.

A 3.5/28 is going to have a rough cycle in the MD world. So is a 3.5/30. 3.5/30 should seriously consider applying to a few top DO schools if they want to matriculate the following year to be honest, unless they really are opposed to being a DO (inb4 flames). People are unrealistic sometimes, not about their stats so much but more about the sheer volume of applicants. Even if you apply smartly and broadly with a 3.5/30 there are just so many people with that range of scores. Unless you bring something else really special (most of us don't, let's stay honest) you could get lost in the pile quite easily.
 
as1212559 said:
Mostly yeah. Only a point or two below in MCAT avgs nowadays. In fact I would expect somewhere like OU-HCOM to be better than a few MD schools in the near future. MCAT scores are rising fast over there. With the school's brand on the rise they get a lot of applicants who also applied to all the Ohio MD programs and want to stay in state.

A 3.5/28 is going to have a rough cycle in the MD world. So is a 3.5/30. 3.5/30 should seriously consider applying to a few top DO schools if they want to matriculate the following year to be honest, unless they really are opposed to being a DO (inb4 flames). People are unrealistic sometimes, not about their stats so much but more about the sheer volume of applicants. Even if you apply smartly and broadly with a 3.5/30 there are just so many people with that range of scores. Unless you bring something else really special (most of us don't, let's stay honest) you could get lost in the pile quite easily.
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Agreed

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Why do these stats seem like such a failed achievement when we discuss them, when things like the MCAT/GPA grid make it seem like the chances are decent. For example. I applied 4.0/30 which corresponds to an ~82% chance of acceptance according to that grid. Those were damn good odds, but I played many of the variables poorly this cycle and will probably be reapplying unless a miracle occurs. We talk as if that grid really means nothing. I do not understand if the talk (like in this thread) is then foolish, or if the statistics shouldn't be trusted.
 
I Love Cats said:
Why do these stats seem like such a failed achievement when we discuss them, when things like the MCAT/GPA grid make it seem like the chances are decent. For example. I applied 4.0/30 which corresponds to an ~82% chance of acceptance according to that grid. Those were damn good odds, but I played many of the variables poorly this cycle and will probably be reapplying unless a miracle occurs. We talk as if that grid really means nothing. I do not understand if the talk (like in this thread) is then foolish, or if the statistics shouldn't be trusted.
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I mean an 82% chance still means 18% of applicants won't get in. Just because it's unlikely for you to fall in the 18% doesn't mean that if you don't get in the statistics are broken. It's like flipping a coin twice times and after getting heads both times, discrediting statistics as a lie.
 
Goobs said:
I mean an 82% chance still means 18% of applicants won't get in. Just because it's unlikely for you to fall in the 18% doesn't mean that if you don't get in the statistics are broken. It's like flipping a coin twice times and after getting heads both times, discrediting statistics as a lie.
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And I'm totally on your side with this. The post wasn't about me, but more about why we treat stats around those initially mentioned as near death sentences. I suppose the issue may be that people with stats like initially mentioned in the post that are being accepted just aren't running to SDN to speak about it and we tend to see the negative side of being closer to a near 50\50 chance more often.
 
as1212559 said:
Mostly yeah. Only a point or two below in MCAT avgs nowadays. In fact I would expect somewhere like OU-HCOM to be better than a few MD schools in the near future. MCAT scores are rising fast over there. With the school's brand on the rise they get a lot of applicants who also applied to all the Ohio MD programs and want to stay in state.

A 3.5/28 is going to have a rough cycle in the MD world. So is a 3.5/30. 3.5/30 should seriously consider applying to a few top DO schools if they want to matriculate the following year to be honest, unless they really are opposed to being a DO (inb4 flames). People are unrealistic sometimes, not about their stats so much but more about the sheer volume of applicants. Even if you apply smartly and broadly with a 3.5/30 there are just so many people with that range of scores. Unless you bring something else really special (most of us don't, let's stay honest) you could get lost in the pile quite easily.
Click to expand...
yeah even 3.5/30 is a gamble these days, only about 50% will be accepted
 
JohnMD34 said:
So I realize getting into an MD school is much more than just having a high gpa and mcat.
However, I was curious as to what are the more minimum basic stats needed to get into an MD, as opposed to a DO.

I would assume it's probably around 3.5 and a 28 for lower end MDs, but again I'm sure there are exceptions.

What do YOU think?


I ask this because things have changed alot since I attended medical school and I wanted to hear what the newer generation thinks.
Click to expand...

The numbers haven't changed much from what I hear from older docs so much as the emphasis on extracurriculars has increased (i.e., from "helpful" to "all but absolutely required"). That said, a 3.5/28 is probably the floor for solid consideration (unless one is underrepresented, then give them around 4-7 points on their MCAT depending upon their race). Average matriculants are closer to 3.7/31-32 with a decent spread in both directions. Top schools are usually looking for 3.8+/35+.
 
JohnMD34 said:
So I realize getting into an MD school is much more than just having a high gpa and mcat.
However, I was curious as to what are the more minimum basic stats needed to get into an MD, as opposed to a DO.

I would assume it's probably around 3.5 and a 28 for lower end MDs, but again I'm sure there are exceptions.

What do YOU think?


I ask this because things have changed alot since I attended medical school and I wanted to hear what the newer generation thinks.
Click to expand...

I would raise your assumption to 3.6 and 30. Even then, it really seems to depend on who reads your application and how they were feeling that day. Getting interviews seems to be a very subjective process.
 
Lysilegluleu said:
Caucasian
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Depends on the school really. Believe it or not there are plenty of state schools in the south and in the midwest that would take their own resident's in a heartbeat. Take ND medical school for example, they practically take any resident with a heartbeat
 
Hemorrage said:
Depends on the school really. Believe it or not there are plenty of state schools in the south and in the midwest that would take their own resident's in a heartbeat. Take ND medical school for example, they practically take any resident with a heartbeat
Click to expand...

My state school is highly in-state preferential but very conservative about who gets an acceptance directly post interview. In this case, the applicant was, in fact, caucasian. She got in somewhat early in the cycle (~ Oct) despite actually having no pulse. Must've had other selling points...hmm..
 
Permavirgin said:
I find it hilarious how the averages creep up higher and higher every year
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yup! I have this book from the princeton review (planning a life in medicine) that was written in 2005. they list the average cumulative GPA for accepted MD students as 3.45 and BCPM as 3.35! MCAT score is 30 though, so that really hasn't changed much. there is also a chart in the book of mean matriculant GPA over various years and 20 years ago, the average BCPM was 3.1 and cGPA was 3.4. things have changed a lot. grade inflation is also more prevalent now. unfortunately there are also schools and certain majors notorious for practicing grade deflation but those students still have to overcompensate in other areas (MCAT, ECs, etc)
 
The statistics, my guess, don't account yet for the bad economy and don't hold true if you don't have a state school to apply to. Strip out the state schools, and you need higher stats than shown in the tables.
 
Snackish said:
Strip out the state schools, and you need higher stats than shown in the tables.
Click to expand...

Yea if you ignore everyone below median who gets accepted.

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Snackish said:
The statistics, my guess, don't account yet for the bad economy and don't hold true if you don't have a state school to apply to. Strip out the state schools, and you need higher stats than shown in the tables.
Click to expand...
the AAMC tables are updated every year so that data does accurately reflect the increased number of applicants due to the bad economy.
 
For the MCAT, exceptions are sometimes made depending on the breakdown. Really, how much better is a 9 in each section versus a 10 when you consider boards correlation? Med school is a new game and some people can succeed by working much harder whether its DO or MD school.
 
It depends on your state. In several states average MCAT is 28-29 for their matriculants which means there's several to many below that number.
 
JohnMD34 said:
So I realize getting into an MD school is much more than just having a high gpa and mcat.
However, I was curious as to what are the more minimum basic stats needed to get into an MD, as opposed to a DO.

I would assume it's probably around 3.5 and a 28 for lower end MDs, but again I'm sure there are exceptions.

What do YOU think?


I ask this because things have changed alot since I attended medical school and I wanted to hear what the newer generation thinks.
Click to expand...

I'm not sure what you're asking....if you are asking what the bare miminum stats for guaranteed acceptance to MD school, then there is no such stat....people with 4.0s get rejected every cycle, and sometimes these people don't get an acceptance.

if you are asking what the lowest stats are for someone who received an acceptance - I don't know this statistic, but if you personally were to apply to medical school with these same stats, you will not get accepted.
 
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