Step 1 and 2 Commbined?

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How likely is it and when will they implement it?

 

[TexasPhysician]

Quite likely. Expected to arrive around 2012 ish.....

 

[Law2Doc]

Quite likely. Expected to arrive around 2012 ish.....

While I agree it will happen, I'd be surprised if it happens as early as 2012, because a lot of things need to be worked out before it goes by the wayside, not the least of which is what residencies are going to use in it's place to screen applicants.

 

[lord_jeebus]

I wonder how much the NBME cares about residencies using Step scores to evaluate applicants - I wouldn't be surprised if they don't care at all.

 

[Knicks]

While I agree it will happen, I'd be surprised if it happens as early as 2012, because a lot of things need to be worked out before it goes by the wayside, not the least of which is what residencies are going to use in it's place to screen applicants.

What do you mean? Then they'll just use the "combined step 1 and 2" exam score.

 

[alphaholic06]

What do you mean? Then they'll just use the "combined step 1 and 2" exam score.

Probably not. The plan being tossed about now is for the new test to be pass/fail.

 

[TexasPhysician]

While I agree it will happen, I'd be surprised if it happens as early as 2012, because a lot of things need to be worked out before it goes by the wayside, not the least of which is what residencies are going to use in it's place to screen applicants.

It may not, but I do know that the phd in charge of curriculum at TTUHSC El Paso (new school for 2009 for those that don't know) purposely designed a curriculum that is tailored to this "new combined exam". He said that he expects it to be in place by 2012 after speaking to .......... (I don't remember). This is his third medical school curriculum to help design after starting up 2 other M.D. schools, so I trust the guy.

I can not verify anything myself however and I agree that it will be a difficult switch IMO.

 

[Boner]

Don't expect anything until about 2014ish. Prof at my school just got back from an NBME meeting, said they expect something no sooner than 6 years d/t implementation issues.

 

[Monica Lewinsky]

.

 

[TexasPhysician]

There are also implementation issues at the med school level. Most schools give a month long break or so after M2 year for step 1 studying, and the allocation of this time would have to be considered. Move up 3rd year? Move up M1/2 and add a long research period? Keep the vacation time? Different schools will likely do different things, and curriculum restructuring is usually a contentious issue for schools to deal with.

No offense, but I doubt they care about how med schools will prepare. They kind of have a monopoly on Step testing.

 

[Monica Lewinsky]

No offense, but I doubt they care about how med schools will prepare. They kind of have a monopoly on Step testing.

No offense, but the a large number of the board members of the NBME are faculty at allopathic medical schools. Yes they have a monopoly on how they run the testing, but they have vested interests as well.

 

[TexasPhysician]

No offense, but the a large number of the board members of the NBME are faculty at allopathic medical schools. Yes they have a monopoly on how they run the testing, but they have vested interests as well.

Is this why we have 4 tests (Step 1, 2CK, 2CS, & 3) which all cost an arm and a leg? Some invested interest.......I especially don't see why 2CS was added for US students. Sure we need people skills, but any US student can bs that for 1 day - seen many do it. Step 2CS costs a crazy amount and is only offerred in certain cities (add plane costs + hotel costs).

It rather seems like students (lost time) and schools (time and money changing curriculums to prep students for these multiple tests) are disadvantaged by all these tests. Combined step 1/2 exams would be more time efficient, allow more actual clinic time/electives for students, and allow schools more flexibility with their curriculum.

If faculty had a sizeable invested interest in this (proof?), they are ignorant for not combining these exams years ago.

 

[Monica Lewinsky]

Is this why we have 4 tests (Step 1, 2CK, 2CS, & 3) which all cost an arm and a leg? Some invested interest.......I especially don't see why 2CS was added for US students. Sure we need people skills, but any US student can bs that for 1 day - seen many do it. Step 2CS costs a crazy amount and is only offerred in certain cities (add plane costs + hotel costs).

It rather seems like students (lost time) and schools (time and money changing curriculums to prep students for these multiple tests) are disadvantaged by all these tests. Combined step 1/2 exams would be more time efficient, allow more actual clinic time/electives for students, and allow schools more flexibility with their curriculum.

If faculty had a sizeable invested interest in this (proof?), they are ignorant for not combining these exams years ago.

The schools don't pay for the exams and don't actively prepare the students for them (I know some do, but most good med schools don't devote resources explicitly towards USMLE prep). I agree that 2CS is dumb, but its unfortunately never going to change, stupid FMGs ruined everything.

 

[genius19]

Is it expected to be tougher ?

 

[Atomic1000]

The schools don't pay for the exams and don't actively prepare the students for them (I know some do, but most good med schools don't devote resources explicitly towards USMLE prep). I agree that 2CS is dumb, but its unfortunately never going to change, stupid FMGs ruined everything.

I have seen FMGs that are not stupid. I have seen FMGs who happen to have senior positions at top 10 schools and if you look around you may see an FMG at your institution. I do think that same applies to a new generation of FMGs. Pretty much every country has at least one good medical school. The richer the country the more of those.

 

[genius19]

While I agree it will happen, I'd be surprised if it happens as early as 2012, because a lot of things need to be worked out before it goes by the wayside, not the least of which is what residencies are going to use in it's place to screen applicants.

Will the new format of USMLE affect those passing out of med school in 2013 ?

 

[PeepshowJohnny]

No offense, but the a large number of the board members of the NBME are faculty at allopathic medical schools. Yes they have a monopoly on how they run the testing, but they have vested interests as well.

Yeah, but before CS was implemented they did a survey of deans and school faculty that basically described what CS would become and asked for opinions.

The response was OVERWHELMINGLY negative. People predicted all the factors we as medical students hate about the test (Cost, lack of utility, redundancy with medical school requirements). NBME implemented it anyway and didn't really address any of these issues. The survey was just kinda formality and they did it anyway.

Supposedly, they also sent a survey about combining Step 1 and Step 2, so people had an inkling this was coming down the pipe even before the official statements because of what happened with CS. Again, survey was a formality.

 

[Monica Lewinsky]

I have seen FMGs that are not stupid. I have seen FMGs who happen to have senior positions at top 10 schools and if you look around you may see an FMG at your institution. I do think that same applies to a new generation of FMGs. Pretty much every country has at least one good medical school. The richer the country the more of those.

Can you not understand the English language yourself? I was obviously using the word "stupid" in a way that didn't mean "intelligence." I meant that FMGs often don't have a great mastery of the English language or American culture, and thus there was a need for the NBME to make an OSCE-like exam to validate that every physician in America could communicate well with patients. I think most people would agree that all US med school graduates have no issue with this, its a subset of FMGs that ruined it for everybody, including FMGs that are fully abile to understand and speak American English.

 

[Monica Lewinsky]

Yeah, but before CS was implemented they did a survey of deans and school faculty that basically described what CS would become and asked for opinions.

The response was OVERWHELMINGLY negative. People predicted all the factors we as medical students hate about the test (Cost, lack of utility, redundancy with medical school requirements). NBME implemented it anyway and didn't really address any of these issues. The survey was just kinda formality and they did it anyway.

Supposedly, they also sent a survey about combining Step 1 and Step 2, so people had an inkling this was coming down the pipe even before the official statements because of what happened with CS. Again, survey was a formality.

Read what I said again, I clearly stated that the NBME doesn't want to go against the medical schools' vested interests (not medical STUDENTS). I'm sure the NBME understood that its a bitch for Americans to take the 2CS, but they said too bad. It doesn't affect school curricula (OSCEs are ubiquitous, so all US students are prepared pretty well for 2CS) since the 2CS is a test that usually doesn't require much time from students other than the time spent getting to the testing site. The fact that the NBME rakes in ~$1000 (minus expenses of running it) from each student taking 2CS doesn't make the medical schools cringe: if it did, then they'd probably be working alot harder to make are tuition bills not so ridiculous as well.

On the other hand, combining Steps 1 and 2 would affect school curricula and create a logistical hassle (at least in the short term while things would have to be changed) because the time that students would have to given to prepare for the exam would change from after 2nd year finishes to some time after 3rd year/during 4th year. The NBME will do whatever it feels like, but it won't leave the medical schools with their pants down either, and thus won't change the system without giving the schools enough time to adjust the curricula.

 

[Atomic1000]

Can you not understand the English language yourself? I was obviously using the word "stupid" in a way that didn't mean "intelligence." I meant that FMGs often don't have a great mastery of the English language or American culture, and thus there was a need for the NBME to make an OSCE-like exam to validate that every physician in America could communicate well with patients. I think most people would agree that all US med school graduates have no issue with this, its a subset of FMGs that ruined it for everybody, including FMGs that are fully abile to understand and speak American English.

i dont know what you really meant, but you would not need to give lengthy explanations if you choose your words carefully. it is very easy to use inappropriate language and later say that you meant it otherwise, but i am more than sure than you would never DARE to say what you wrote in your previous post and use "the word 'stupid' in a way that didnt mean 'ntelligence' " in front of an attending physician who himself might be an IMG.

 

[winner123]

The schools don't pay for the exams and don't actively prepare the students for them (I know some do, but most good med schools don't devote resources explicitly towards USMLE prep). I agree that 2CS is dumb, but its unfortunately never going to change, stupid FMGs ruined everything.

At least FMG's are not so stupid as u to use the word "stupid " for anyone.

 

[winner123]

Can you not understand the English language yourself? I was obviously using the word "stupid" in a way that didn't mean "intelligence." I meant that FMGs often don't have a great mastery of the English language or American culture, and thus there was a need for the NBME to make an OSCE-like exam to validate that every physician in America could communicate well with patients. I think most people would agree that all US med school graduates have no issue with this, its a subset of FMGs that ruined it for everybody, including FMGs that are fully abile to understand and speak American English.

Do not you know that a percentage of AMGs fails the step-2cs as well.
I think that you have not yet understood this exam.You do not even know what this exam is about.
This exam is not at all about testing one's fluency in english or a so-called test of american english.
This test is simply about being with the patient.
The majority of IMGs who fail this test fail because they think that this test is all about fluency,american accent,speaking fast,asking rapid fire questions,etc.
But, alas ,it proves very detrimental to them afterwards!

I hope u get it.
Good luck.

 

[JeffLebowski]

Do not you know that a percentage of AMGs fails the step-2cs as well.
I think that you have not yet understood this exam.You do not even know what this exam is about.
This exam is not at all about testing one's fluency in english or a so-called test of american english.
This test is simply about being with the patient.
The majority of IMGs who fail this test fail because they think that this test is all about fluency,american accent,speaking fast,asking rapid fire questions,etc.
But, alas ,it proves very detrimental to them afterwards!

I hope u get it.
Good luck.

Is it wrong that I enjoyed the misinterpretation of Monica's comment and the resulting backlash from a bunch of FMG's (complete with bad language skills)? It was a little entertaining and I feel a little dirty for thinking so.

 

[lord_jeebus]

Everyone,

Please stick to the original topic - the possible combination of Steps I and II.

If you would like to discuss the quality of physicians trained outside the US, you are in the wrong thread and the wrong forum. May I also remind you to keep discussions of that topic civil, as you would for any topic on SDN.

 

[winner123]

Is it wrong that I enjoyed the misinterpretation of Monica's comment and the resulting backlash from a bunch of FMG's (complete with bad language skills)? It was a little entertaining and I feel a little dirty for thinking so.

Don't play with fire,control your vicious desire.

 

[Atomic1000]

Is it wrong that I enjoyed the misinterpretation of Monica's comment and the resulting backlash from a bunch of FMG's (complete with bad language skills)? It was a little entertaining and I feel a little dirty for thinking so.

i dont think that it was a misinterpretation. bad language skills? maybe. i go to a top 10 med school on the east coast and my mcat verbal score was as good as yours or better. and i really do think that looking down upon imgs is not something that anyone should be doing. obama's wife went to princeton and harvard. that does not make her smart (ever read the original thesis?). i do know a lot of med students at MY school that are no smarter than many of the nurses and this is at my school. more hardworking and more determined to get what they want - yes.

anyone who likes to travel and takes time to visit med schools in other countries (rich and poor) will see that there are schools that are as good as our top 10 schools in most countries in europe and quite a few countries in asia. graduates from those schools make excellent doctors. it's not that we do better on the boards because we are smarter. our teachers write the questions and our schools are TOLD what to focus on. step2cs is no different.

and as someone who did pretty well on the boards, i would rather that you take time to answer questions asked than pass comments that are totally useless.

thanks.

last post for this thread.

 

[lord_jeebus]

Everyone,

Please stick to the original topic - the possible combination of Steps I and II.

If you would like to discuss the quality of physicians trained outside the US, you are in the wrong thread and the wrong forum. May I also remind you to keep discussions of that topic civil, as you would for any topic on SDN.

ahem

 

[winner123]

i dont think that it was a misinterpretation. bad language skills? maybe. i go to a top 10 med school on the east coast and my mcat verbal score was as good as yours or better. and i really do think that looking down upon imgs is not something that anyone should be doing. obama's wife went to princeton and harvard. that does not make her smart (ever read the original thesis?). i do know a lot of med students at MY school that are no smarter than many of the nurses and this is at my school. more hardworking and more determined to get what they want - yes.

anyone who likes to travel and takes time to visit med schools in other countries (rich and poor) will see that there are schools that are as good as our top 10 schools in most countries in europe and quite a few countries in asia. graduates from those schools make excellent doctors. it's not that we do better on the boards because we are smarter. our teachers write the questions and our schools are TOLD what to focus on. step2cs is no different.

and as someone who did pretty well on the boards, i would rather that you take time to answer questions asked than pass comments that are totally useless.

thanks.

last post for this thread.

Good job,dear.

 

[sd1984]

i hope no time soon, because step 1 sucks and i feel like everyone should have to write it separated from step 2, it just wouldnt be fair!