Step 1 is Done, Bring on M3! (Ask a Non-Trad [Almost] Anything)

[Eccesignum]

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Hey everyone! Some of you know me, many are new since the days (oh so long ago el oh el) when I was going through pre-med. Every so often I like to drop by when I can and offer a spot to AMA, and I've got a little breather time right now Step 1 (SO GLAD THAT'S DONE) and rotations.

I'm a female in my late thirties, attending a US MD school. I'm a twice-over career changer, GPA resuscitator (sub-3.0, did a second round of undergrad to drag that out of the grave), and many other oddities. It was a long road and still ongoing.

I'm only one experience among thousands, so I always welcome other lurking medical students and grads (and attendings and etc) to jump in and answer from their perspective as well. Anyway, if anyone has random questions about pre-med stuff, life in medical school (the first two years, anyway), or whatever else, I'm glad to answer for the next two-ish weeks. And if not, I'll see everyone again in a few months.

 

[fantasticman221]

Congrats? What are some things you wish you did or heard before you began M1?

 

[Goro]

Hey everyone! Some of you know me, many are new since the days (oh so long ago el oh el) when I was going through pre-med. Every so often I like to drop by when I can and offer a spot to AMA, and I've got a little breather time right now Step 1 (SO GLAD THAT'S DONE) and rotations.

I'm a female in my late thirties, attending a US MD school. I'm a twice-over career changer, GPA resuscitator (sub-3.0, did a second round of undergrad to drag that out of the grave), and many other oddities. It was a long road and still ongoing.

I'm only one experience among thousands, so I always welcome other lurking medical students and grads (and attendings and etc) to jump in and answer from their perspective as well. Anyway, if anyone has random questions about pre-med stuff, life in medical school (the first two years, anyway), or whatever else, I'm glad to answer for the next two-ish weeks. And if not, I'll see everyone again in a few months.

My Gawd, ecce...you're finished with M2? Already? But you started med school like, yesterday!

WHERE DID IT GO????

 

[Johnrawlsneuro]

Tagging for insight and thanks for doing this!

 

[Eccesignum]

Congrats? What are some things you wish you did or heard before you began M1?

TBH very little, really. I was told all I needed to know, there's just so much people will tell you that you still don't quite get until you're in it. It took a while until I found my stride, but that's not something that could've been told to me ahead of time. I just had to be in it and listen to myself.

The finances were a big shock to the system, coming from a job where I was making good money to living off loans (in a city with a relatively high COL, so the money does not stretch far). Trying to plan the next two years and needing to do away rotations and interviews flying all around the country, hotels, etc is stressing me out a bit when I look at how much money I'll have to do it all on. That is one thing I wish I'd thought about earlier. My mind was so wrapped up on getting into school that I didn't stop to consider how this would work when having an "income" under half what I had in the pre-med process. But it will work out somehow.

 

[Eccesignum]

My Gawd, ecce...you're finished with M2? Already? But you started med school like, yesterday!

WHERE DID IT GO????

RIGHT?!? Days are long, years are short, etc etc etc. I can't believe we're at the halfway mark already. Looking forward to hospital time.

 

[Goro]

RIGHT?!? Days are long, years are short, etc etc etc. I can't believe we're at the halfway mark already. Looking forward to hospital time.

I'm afraid that if I blink, you'll be an attending.

 

[DSM_302.0]

Congrats and thanks for stopping by! 32 y/o M0 here.

Ugh the financial aspect is also the most worrying for me. So if I have any savings, I should keep it for random expenses, not to take our fewer loans, yeah?

Did you find your age kept you from making close relationship with your peers, or in the trenches of school does this no longer matter?

Nontrads like to fantasize that our maturity and experience will be so valuable as a doctor. But do they matter as a med student?

Do you consider your age a big determining factor guiding which fields of medicine you're interested in?

Thanks!

 

[Eccesignum]

Congrats to you! I've also had to do some GPA resuscitation and have a 3.9 post-bac science gpa, but unfortunately my cumulative science gpa is low ~3.2. What did you do to improve your GPA and what helped you gain admission?

So I had dropped out of college almost twenty years ago with a 2.7 in my senior year (utterly dumb, not proud of that), and later got an associate's. When I decided to do this I went back and got a bachelor's from the ground up, four years of work with a 3.9 -- which brought me up to a 3.2 cumulative (3.9 science as I was fortunate my former failed degree had almost zero hard science). But it was enough, as thank goodness admins look at trends and could very easily see that the last time I'd done poorly in a course was almost two decades prior. Maybe one or two interviewers asked me about it, but more often than not they either didn't bring it up or made some amused comment about growing up and moved on.

So when someone says they have low cGPA or sGPA, my first question is: what's your trend? If it's upward, you've got a decent start. If it's downward, we need to have a more serious talk. Second is: have you done the math? There are AMCAS GPA calculators floating around (I've posted one in several threads around here). Plug in all your grades then start plugging in fantasy As and see how long it would take you to get to optimal GPA. What you want to do is get a balance somewhere between optimal GPA -- which may not be attainable -- and putting enough time and solid high marks between you and the mess-up that admins will see clearly that you've changed.

 

[Eccesignum]

Congrats and thanks for stopping by! 32 y/o M0 here.

Ugh the financial aspect is also the most worrying for me. So if I have any savings, I should keep it for random expenses, not to take our fewer loans, yeah?

Did you find your age kept you from making close relationship with your peers, or in the trenches of school does this no longer matter?

Nontrads like to fantasize that our maturity and experience will be so valuable as a doctor. But do they matter as a med student?

Do you consider your age a big determining factor guiding which fields of medicine you're interested in?

Thanks!

Well, it's a tradeoff where the loans are concerned, since loans come with interest. If I could go back and re-manage my finances I'd have spent less on further interviews after I had gotten into schools I knew were top on my list, and saved the rest of the money into a fund I wouldn't touch til residency interview time.

As for close relationships, I'm very good friends with my roommate...but she's a fellow non-trad even older than I am (we actually met on this board during our application thread). I've forged a handful of friendships but not many I'd call "close"...the age gap is very real. For the most part they're good people and I enjoy group sessions and whatnot, but the difference in life experience really is striking. Add to the fact that the majority of medical school students come from fairly high socioeconomic classes and I grew up on the edge of poor. The mental differences are more than I thought they would be.

Maturity does matter. You'll find this out very quickly. The ways we've learned to deal with stress, with giving and getting criticism, with expressing our opinions, with dealing with authority...it's all incredibly valuable and will make you stand out in a good way. Which you'll understand very well when you start seeing how ill-equipped some of your classmates will be -- not all of them, but enough. There is a lot of pettiness in medical school. Stay above it at all costs.

For me it's been a little frustrating dealing with my professors, as they are used to talking to 24 year olds who've somehow never had a job, etc. I find a lot of their language disturbingly infantilizing. It's not the same way adults treated me back when I was 24, and I often just sit and wonder when this shift happened.

I do think about age in terms of the fact that I don't want to enter a field where the the minute you can't be on your feet all day there's no option but to retire...no dénouement, so to speak. I've probably only got 25-30 years from graduation before I'm not as able to physically keep up as I am now, so for me it's important to think ahead. When I'm in my sixties (and possibly seventies or beyond), will this field still have something I can do to be productive? I also have to think about paying back loans and making sure I'll do it fast enough that I can save enough money to live on once work is out of the question. So while age isn't the /most/ important deciding factor it is still there in the periphery. I've made sure to ask residents and attendings I meet in my top choice specialties these kinds of questions, and for the most part they've been very open in talking about "what happens later".

 

[star.buck]

Well, it's a tradeoff where the loans are concerned, since loans come with interest. If I could go back and re-manage my finances I'd have spent less on further interviews after I had gotten into schools I knew were top on my list, and saved the rest of the money into a fund I wouldn't touch til residency interview time.

As for close relationships, I'm very good friends with my roommate...but she's a fellow non-trad even older than I am (we actually met on this board during our application thread). I've forged a handful of friendships but not many I'd call "close"...the age gap is very real. For the most part they're good people and I enjoy group sessions and whatnot, but the difference in life experience really is striking. Add to the fact that the majority of medical school students come from fairly high socioeconomic classes and I grew up on the edge of poor. The mental differences are more than I thought they would be.

Maturity does matter. You'll find this out very quickly. The ways we've learned to deal with stress, with giving and getting criticism, with expressing our opinions, with dealing with authority...it's all incredibly valuable and will make you stand out in a good way. Which you'll understand very well when you start seeing how ill-equipped some of your classmates will be -- not all of them, but enough. There is a lot of pettiness in medical school. Stay above it at all costs.

For me it's been a little frustrating dealing with my professors, as they are used to talking to 24 year olds who've somehow never had a job, etc. I find a lot of their language disturbingly infantilizing. It's not the same way adults treated me back when I was 24, and I often just sit and wonder when this shift happened.

I do think about age in terms of the fact that I don't want to enter a field where the the minute you can't be on your feet all day there's no option but to retire...no dénouement, so to speak. I've probably only got 25-30 years from graduation before I'm not as able to physically keep up as I am now, so for me it's important to think ahead. When I'm in my sixties (and possibly seventies or beyond), will this field still have something I can do to be productive? I also have to think about paying back loans and making sure I'll do it fast enough that I can save enough money to live on once work is out of the question. So while age isn't the /most/ important deciding factor it is still there in the periphery. I've made sure to ask residents and attendings I meet in my top choice specialties these kinds of questions, and for the most part they've been very open in talking about "what happens later".

Congrats on being done with Step 1!!!! I just took mine on Monday, wow that test is an experience!

You're not alone with the frustration of the professor's infantilizing language. I have a few profs who tend to do the same thing, and I don't think they realize it most of the time. I didn't realize this was happening until one prof. treated us all like adults and addressed us as adult learners, which was so intensely refreshing I saw the other communications for what they are.

I've also seen that pettiness and lack of stress coping mechanisms among classmates that you talked about. As well as the mentality differences between the socioeconomical backgrounds (I grew up lower-middle class, and have experienced poverty). It's very interesting being a non-traditional amidst mostly mid-20's classmates. You're definitely not alone in that experience either! I do have a few very close friends, in that mid-20's range, however. I think these people will be close friends for life.

Is there anything in particular you're bringing into the clinics? I'm trying to figure out what to carry in the ole white coat, and what books to keep unpacked for reference. Cheers to being an M3!!!!

 

[TheShowGoesOn]

Thanks for the post- as somebody who is looking to go back to school and pursue medical school as a non trad I love reading success stories. Anything is possible. Enjoy the ride!

 

[stayathomemom]

Thanks for doing an AMA!

I'm also a female, will be later thirties when I'm as far along as you are. Do you feel the impact of age on your physical performance? I suppose you haven't started clinicals yet, but maybe you have some insight. I am particularly concerned about being able to pull all-nighters (now that I'm old I feel so sick the next day when I stay up all night for anything) and just plain ol' joints acting up (my lower back tends to be the first to get cranky when I push my physical limits).

 

[wholeheartedly]

@Eccesignum and @star.buck what rotations are you guys starting out with? which ones are you most looking forward to?

Do either of you have any ideas on specialties you're most interested in that you'd be willing to share? and what about them interests you?

 

[star.buck]

@Eccesignum and @star.buck what rotations are you guys starting out with? which ones are you most looking forward to?

Do either of you have any ideas on specialties you're most interested in that you'd be willing to share? and what about them interests you?

My school has a 5 month rural primary care program (with afternoon specialty rotations mixed in few times a month) before the main rotations start in January (I’m diving in head first in January with surgery ). I’m really looking forward to the primary care program, as I’m seriously considering family medicine / geriatrics. From what I’ve heard I’ll be able to be deeply hands on and involved in the patient care, which I’m quite looking forward to after years of book work. For the more typical rotations, I look forward to psych and peds the most.

As for why these interst me, I find the conversations with friends and family about their belly aches, sore throats, high blood pressure, and diabetes are deeply satisfying. They ask me because they think I know all this stuff as a med student now (hahaha... I do always tell them to talk to a “real” doctor). Yet, being able to explain the diseases to them, or why they shouldn’t have grapefruit juice with certain meds, or why it’s important to take their hypertension meds is deeply satisfying. This tells me I should probably consider primary care, lol!

Geriatrics interests me because my love for medicine was born in the Alzheimer’s unit of my local nursing home where I worked as an aid. The aging baby boomers are going to have a critical need for skilled physicians...

I’m looking forward to psych because it’s quite entangled within primary care (it seems nearly every patient I’ve seen while shadowing family or internal med docs has psychiatric needs). I’ve fought with depression and anxiety myself, and have been around those who have as well. The presence of one effective and caring physician can make a profound difference for those fighting these battles.

Peds, because I would like to see how hard it really is working with the parents. I love helping and be being around little ones, and I have a knack for it at times. My siblings’ kids run to me in tears with their boo-boos, want me to check their knees after a bicycle tumbles, and make sure their elbows still work after the fall. I adore the little ones, and find I can connect with children quickly, (likely because I can be a goofball quite effectively) but I’ve heard so many horror stories about parents...

I think this answers the questions! Maybe it was a bit long winded? In a nut shell, I can not wait for some real medicine!!!

 

[Eccesignum]

Congrats on being done with Step 1!!!! I just took mine on Monday, wow that test is an experience!

I am slowly going from elated that it's over to terrified of the score now, haha.

Is there anything in particular you're bringing into the clinics? I'm trying to figure out what to carry in the ole white coat, and what books to keep unpacked for reference. Cheers to being an M3!!!!

Man, I'm still trying t figure that out too. Probably my little pocket Bates since it fits, and I've got some nifty reference cards from EMSA that I'll probably bring along. We have our weeklong orientation starting soon so I'll pick some brains during that. I honestly hadn't had a chance before now to even think about it!

 

[Eccesignum]

Thanks for doing an AMA!

I'm also a female, will be later thirties when I'm as far along as you are. Do you feel the impact of age on your physical performance? I suppose you haven't started clinicals yet, but maybe you have some insight. I am particularly concerned about being able to pull all-nighters (now that I'm old I feel so sick the next day when I stay up all night for anything) and just plain ol' joints acting up (my lower back tends to be the first to get cranky when I push my physical limits).

I'm coming from a job where I worked nights by choice, and mostly on my feet, and it was fine for me. It takes some adjustment and the first night or two of a stretch is always hard. Strongly recommend blackout curtains -- when it's dark enough your brain will go ahead and shut off after a while. Definitely get into the habit of good sleep hygiene. If you're tossing and turning don't stay in bed, as it just trains your brain to be awake in bed. Move all the bright stuff away. Don't do anything in bed besides sleep. I find that really helps for sleeping during odd hours.

I actually really miss the physical activity of my job. I've just spent the last two years basically sitting and staring at a computer, and it's taken more a toll on my weight and overall health than working ever did.

My back and joints...lol. My knees already have that vague ache after I've been standing for a while, so surgery will be a total joy I'm sure. But I just bought a pair of good sneakers and hey, it's only temporary where rotations are concerned. You can survive anything in the short term. If physical activity is a concern by the time you're looking at residencies then keep it in mind, but wait to see how you feel at that point before worrying too much about it.

 

[Eccesignum]

@Eccesignum and @star.buck what rotations are you guys starting out with? which ones are you most looking forward to?

Do either of you have any ideas on specialties you're most interested in that you'd be willing to share? and what about them interests you?

I start with surgery in a little over a week. If I had to choose a specialty today it would be emergency. I was an emergency RN and I know I enjoy and am energized by the field, but I accept there is quite a lot of room for change of heart in the next two years. Critical care is also high on the potential choices, possibly through EM. Trauma surgery is also up there, so I put in for a TS elective during this upcoming rotation to see if I actually like it or if I'm just romanticizing the idea.

Looking forward to surgery, FM, IM, EM, and I do want to have a peek at Anesthesia. I'm a bit opposite @star.buck on peds, I'm not looking forward to that at all lol. Kids are just not my thing, so always happy to see someone who wants to take that on 😉

 

[star.buck]

I start with surgery in a little over a week. If I had to choose a specialty today it would be emergency. I was an emergency RN and I know I enjoy and am energized by the field, but I accept there is quite a lot of room for change of heart in the next two years. Critical care is also high on the potential choices, possibly through EM. Trauma surgery is also up there, so I put in for a TS elective during this upcoming rotation to see if I actually like it or if I'm just romanticizing the idea.

Looking forward to surgery, FM, IM, EM, and I do want to have a peek at Anesthesia. I'm a bit opposite @star.buck on peds, I'm not looking forward to that at all lol. Kids are just not my thing, so always happy to see someone who wants to take that on 😉

And I’m quite grateful for those who want to do emergency and critical care! I’m not looking forward to either of those! I’m a bit of a princess with my need for sleep, and the fast pace makes my head spin a bit! Those rotations will be interesting, but phew, glad they’re not long!! 😉

 

[24GaugeEJ]

I start with surgery in a little over a week. If I had to choose a specialty today it would be emergency. I was an emergency RN and I know I enjoy and am energized by the field, but I accept there is quite a lot of room for change of heart in the next two years. Critical care is also high on the potential choices, possibly through EM. Trauma surgery is also up there, so I put in for a TS elective during this upcoming rotation to see if I actually like it or if I'm just romanticizing the idea.

Looking forward to surgery, FM, IM, EM, and I do want to have a peek at Anesthesia. I'm a bit opposite @star.buck on peds, I'm not looking forward to that at all lol. Kids are just not my thing, so always happy to see someone who wants to take that on 😉

I feel the same way (medic - 911 and ED here)! Love the idea of critical care and will be exploring the specialties with pathways to that endpoint...with the exception of peds and ob/gyn.

Edit: added emoji to be a smart ***.

 

[theITcrowd]

I'm a female in my late thirties, attending a US MD school. I'm a twice-over career changer, GPA resuscitator (sub-3.0, did a second round of undergrad to drag that out of the grave), and many other oddities. It was a long road and still ongoing.

Thanks for sharing!

This might be better asked in a PM (and please let me know if that's the case), but do you have a family/SO and, if so, how did that impact your pre-med journey/M1 and M2 years/decisions about specialties?

 

[Eccesignum]

Thanks for sharing!

This might be better asked in a PM (and please let me know if that's the case), but do you have a family/SO and, if so, how did that impact your pre-med journey/M1 and M2 years/decisions about specialties?

Nope to both, I'm somewhere close to the world record for longest time single. Which made this a much less entangled decision 😉

(And why I like opening up these AMAs to other non-trad students to jump in on...I know a lot of folks on the road have questions like this and I got nuthin')

 

[star.buck]

Thanks for sharing!

This might be better asked in a PM (and please let me know if that's the case), but do you have a family/SO and, if so, how did that impact your pre-med journey/M1 and M2 years/decisions about specialties?

I’ll jump in... I’m a woman in my mid-30’s, MS3, with an extremely supportive husband, no kids (and none in the plans). Having his support made the premed journey much easier. We had to live apart for the first 2 years of med school (which was understandably VERY difficult), yet we made it work and developed some very effective communication skills over the long distance. I’m also very close to my siblings (they all have little ones) who live in the same state.

As for speciality choices because of family/SO, I haven’t felt any restrictions because of this. The only restrictions are my own, which are time related and physical related. I’m not the type to want to be 55 years old and on my feet all day in a surgery, nor do I want the crazy hours of OBGYN or critical care. I will say the specialities I’m interested in (Family, psych, geriatrics, maybe Peds) have a benefit of being needed everywhere, so that will help if my husband wants a different job and we need to move for him, as I can find work pretty much anywhere with these specialties.

Hopefully this answers the question a bit.

 

[DSM_302.0]

Well, it's a tradeoff where the loans are concerned, since loans come with interest. If I could go back and re-manage my finances I'd have spent less on further interviews after I had gotten into schools I knew were top on my list, and saved the rest of the money into a fund I wouldn't touch til residency interview time.

Thanks for all your thoughts here! My line of thinking on finances was that if I've already taken out the max permitted by budget in loans and I'm still falling short, having a cash reserve to draw from would be more important than lessening the total loan burden in the end. But I heard something at a second look that seemed to imply that, if I'm falling short for whatever reason, I can always take out more loans, because, "Banks love doctors-to-be. They'll give you anything cuz they know you're good for it later." Not that I'd want to! Compound annual interest is scary as all hell!

I could nearly pay for a year's worth of school off the bat, but I think I'll do it all in loans instead, and have a cash reserve to draw from for a bit of luxury in my life: a vacation here and there, a celebratory dinner once in a while, etc. I'm scared of feeling ramen-noodle-poor after working in bay area tech for a while. I really don't have that expensive of tastes, but I worry the transition from having a solid income to living on a tight budget will hurt.

I bet you're so excited! Preclinical seems definitely interesting, but really what's getting me excited about med school is getting into the hospital and onto rotations.

Love hearing from fellow nontrads a few steps ahead of me on this interminable-seeming path. Thanks for sharing.

Cheers!

 

[Matthew9Thirtyfive]

I don’t have any questions at the moment. I just wanted to say congrats on your success so far, and I’m glad the hard work paid off.

 

[theITcrowd]

We had to live apart for the first 2 years of med school (which was understandably VERY difficult), yet we made it work and developed some very effective communication skills over the long distance.

Wow, kudos to your husband. I'm pretty sure my wife wouldn't be ok with that lol
Thanks for your insights!

 

[Eccesignum]

Thanks for all your thoughts here! My line of thinking on finances was that if I've already taken out the max permitted by budget in loans and I'm still falling short, having a cash reserve to draw from would be more important than lessening the total loan burden in the end. But I heard something at a second look that seemed to imply that, if I'm falling short for whatever reason, I can always take out more loans, because, "Banks love doctors-to-be. They'll give you anything cuz they know you're good for it later." Not that I'd want to! Compound annual interest is scary as all hell!

I could nearly pay for a year's worth of school off the bat, but I think I'll do it all in loans instead, and have a cash reserve to draw from for a bit of luxury in my life: a vacation here and there, a celebratory dinner once in a while, etc. I'm scared of feeling ramen-noodle-poor after working in bay area tech for a while. I really don't have that expensive of tastes, but I worry the transition from having a solid income to living on a tight budget will hurt.

I bet you're so excited! Preclinical seems definitely interesting, but really what's getting me excited about med school is getting into the hospital and onto rotations.

Love hearing from fellow nontrads a few steps ahead of me on this interminable-seeming path. Thanks for sharing.

Cheers!

Well. If your loans are maxed you can in theory take out more but you do have to work with FA and provide some kind of proof that that the school's determined COL is lower than what you need for some reason. I have never tried it. I'm under the impression it can be done but shouldn't be considered an automatic easy approval. Obviously you can't take out personal loans while in school as you'd have to pay them back somehow much more short term.

I basically drained my savings paying for my second round of undergrad. They would have been drained one way or another, either into UG tuition or med to cut down on cumulative loans. Still not entirely sure that was a good idea, as now that I'm getting closer and closer to being 40 at financial zero I'm getting more uneasy about it.

How far your loans stretch really depends where you live. If you're in school in a small town in the Midwest you'll live much more freely than in NYC. I had to turn down a school in one large city because I looked at their loan package, looked at the average cost of renting/food/etc in the city, and...literally could not figure out how to survive. It would've been day to day financial stress and I just didn't want that. Where I am now is a large city as well but much more liveable on loans. I can't fly to Rome for the weekend but I'm far from eating ramen. Budgeting skills can't be overrated.

 

[Eccesignum]

I don’t have any questions at the moment. I just wanted to say congrats on your success so far, and I’m glad the hard work paid off.

Hey, good to see you! Best of luck in the app cycle!!

 

[oceaneyes_2390]

Hey everyone! Some of you know me, many are new since the days (oh so long ago el oh el) when I was going through pre-med. Every so often I like to drop by when I can and offer a spot to AMA, and I've got a little breather time right now Step 1 (SO GLAD THAT'S DONE) and rotations.

I'm a female in my late thirties, attending a US MD school. I'm a twice-over career changer, GPA resuscitator (sub-3.0, did a second round of undergrad to drag that out of the grave), and many other oddities. It was a long road and still ongoing.

I'm only one experience among thousands, so I always welcome other lurking medical students and grads (and attendings and etc) to jump in and answer from their perspective as well. Anyway, if anyone has random questions about pre-med stuff, life in medical school (the first two years, anyway), or whatever else, I'm glad to answer for the next two-ish weeks. And if not, I'll see everyone again in a few months.

I’m a 27yo RN currently working in a medical ICU. I’m also a single mom with a 5yo daughter. I started out in pre med my freshman year of college but it was a hard year and I “settled” with nursing.... it was easier, less time, less loans, etc. I thought I was making the right choice then but I’ve never been able to overcome the feeling that I settled for nursing instead of pursuing what I always wanted to do- be a doctor.
I’ve been accepted into 3 major schools in my area to take my core sciences I need for med school that I didn’t do in nursing school. I figure, taking 16+ credit hours a semester including summer, I’ll be done in 18 months. By the time I’m done with med school and residency I’ll be ~38yo. I’m not married, I may want more kids, and I feel like I’ll be spending the remaining “good years” I have left of my youth in school.
The biggest problem I have is being so conflicted. My heart wants to be a doctor and I’m not sure I’ll ecee be fully satisfied with myself until I accomplish that. On the other hand, the odds seem stacked against me and I REALLY don’t want to sacrifice having a life and family for a degree.
Any thoughts/insights/experience would be very appreciated!

 

[BombsAway]

Just wanted to stop by and thank you for you PS editing help this time last year. Glad to see you're still crushing it!

 

[24GaugeEJ]

I’m a 27yo RN currently working in a medical ICU. I’m also a single mom with a 5yo daughter. I started out in pre med my freshman year of college but it was a hard year and I “settled” with nursing.... it was easier, less time, less loans, etc. I thought I was making the right choice then but I’ve never been able to overcome the feeling that I settled for nursing instead of pursuing what I always wanted to do- be a doctor.
I’ve been accepted into 3 major schools in my area to take my core sciences I need for med school that I didn’t do in nursing school. I figure, taking 16+ credit hours a semester including summer, I’ll be done in 18 months. By the time I’m done with med school and residency I’ll be ~38yo. I’m not married, I may want more kids, and I feel like I’ll be spending the remaining “good years” I have left of my youth in school.
The biggest problem I have is being so conflicted. My heart wants to be a doctor and I’m not sure I’ll ecee be fully satisfied with myself until I accomplish that. On the other hand, the odds seem stacked against me and I REALLY don’t want to sacrifice having a life and family for a degree.
Any thoughts/insights/experience would be very appreciated!

I’ll be a couple years older than you will be when I finish. My wife and I may never have kids as a result of this and the various life altering events that led the both of us to where we are now. We don’t want to sacrifice our careers or the limited time that we have to share together. Maybe one day we’ll regret it; maybe not. If you don’t want to sacrifice “life and family” do not pursue medical school. Not to say that this is you, but I’ve seen some pretty flippant attitudes toward medical school from the many undergrads I’ve sat through classes with over the past few years. I’ve seen some equally and inexplicably flippant attitudes towards physicians from some of the nurses I work with. You will be responsible for people’s lives. You work in a micu — watch the doctors with whom you work. The good ones don’t go home until the work is done. You don’t want to be one of the adequate ones.

The basic science courses that you need to take will be harder than nursing school courses and you have to prepare for the mcat concomitantly, as well. This will seem cold, but you are competing against your classmates in both coursework and the mcat. I never turned down a request for help and made some good friends, so don’t think that I’m a monster, but what I’m saying is that you will have to perform extremely well on both.

I’m starting in the fall, so I’d be happy to update you on the course load as I go along. Whatever you do, think long and hard about it. I worked nights and took classes during the day for years. It was tough at times. I’m looking forward to finally being able to sleep at night and to focus on one thing for a change. Make sure your family is on board.

If you decide that this is really what you want, good luck! Commit to it, but realistically assess your performance and motivation at regular intervals. Work hard! All the best to you!

TLDR: it’s hard, it will take hard work and perhaps more time than you think, whether you like it or not. If you can’t see yourself ever doing anything else, go for it and take it seriously! Good luck!

 

[star.buck]

I’ll be a couple years older than you will be when I finish. My wife and I may never have kids as a result of this and the various life altering events that led the both of us to where we are now. We don’t want to sacrifice our careers or the limited time that we have to share together. Maybe one day we’ll regret it; maybe not. If you don’t want to sacrifice “life and family” do not pursue medical school. Not to say that this is you, but I’ve seen some pretty flippant attitudes toward medical school from the many undergrads I’ve sat through classes with over the past few years. I’ve seen some equally and inexplicably flippant attitudes towards physicians from some of the nurses I work with. You will be responsible for people’s lives. You work in a micu — watch the doctors with whom you work. The good ones don’t go home until the work is done. You don’t want to be one of the adequate ones.

The basic science courses that you need to take will be harder than nursing school courses and you have to prepare for the mcat concomitantly, as well. This will seem cold, but you are competing against your classmates in both coursework and the mcat. I never turned down a request for help and made some good friends, so don’t think that I’m a monster, but what I’m saying is that you will have to perform extremely well on both.

I’m starting in the fall, so I’d be happy to update you on the course load as I go along. Whatever you do, think long and hard about it. I worked nights and took classes during the day for years. It was tough at times. I’m looking forward to finally being able to sleep at night and to focus on one thing for a change. Make sure your family is on board.

If you decide that this is really what you want, good luck! Commit to it, but realistically assess your performance and motivation at regular intervals. Work hard! All the best to you!

TLDR: it’s hard, it will take hard work and perhaps more time than you think, whether you like it or not. If you can’t see yourself ever doing anything else, go for it and take it seriously! Good luck!

Well said... I'm in my mid 30's and my husband and I are not planning on kids for some of the reasons you mentioned, as well as other reasons. I know doctors who make it work, they have the kids, both partners have careers, and they seem happy and fulfilled. I have classmates with little ones, who are making it work in medical school. How they do it, is beyond me. I still believe they are a certain breed of super human.

I’m a 27yo RN currently working in a medical ICU. I’m also a single mom with a 5yo daughter. I started out in pre med my freshman year of college but it was a hard year and I “settled” with nursing.... it was easier, less time, less loans, etc. I thought I was making the right choice then but I’ve never been able to overcome the feeling that I settled for nursing instead of pursuing what I always wanted to do- be a doctor.
I’ve been accepted into 3 major schools in my area to take my core sciences I need for med school that I didn’t do in nursing school. I figure, taking 16+ credit hours a semester including summer, I’ll be done in 18 months. By the time I’m done with med school and residency I’ll be ~38yo. I’m not married, I may want more kids, and I feel like I’ll be spending the remaining “good years” I have left of my youth in school.
The biggest problem I have is being so conflicted. My heart wants to be a doctor and I’m not sure I’ll ecee be fully satisfied with myself until I accomplish that. On the other hand, the odds seem stacked against me and I REALLY don’t want to sacrifice having a life and family for a degree.
Any thoughts/insights/experience would be very appreciated!

"Where there's a will, there's a way" the saying goes. You CAN make this happen, and with solid family support and a solid non-trad family-friendly school it can be made a lighter burden.

Med school is brutal. I took 16 credit loads of difficult science courses in undergrad. Med school to me is like taking double that, sometimes triple. People ask how much I study, and I basically told them that's the wrong question. How much time to I take OFF? 2-3 hours a day, and one day a week (which was chopped to a half day when exams came). Others don't have to work quite so hard because they are quicker at grasping the material (I had a 4.0 in my undergrad sciences, however). The board exams (I just took Step 1) are beasts... I can't even describe the experience to study for this exam! There's going to be a lot of unknowns, where will you go for school? Where will you go for residency? I have no idea where I'm going to live in 2 years for residency, and had to move a way from my family for med school.

Search your heart and try to understand why you want this. If there's even a quiver of "I'm not sure about this..." don't do it. There's many paths to patient care, and leadership in the medical field. Explore NP, which give you nearly the same autonomy as MD in some specialties!

If in the end, this is your heart, it is all you can see for your future... there is a community that will support you. If you seek them, there will be other mothers, other medical students, and other physicians who have walked the same path and will be there to help you. You won't be alone.

I wish you the very best!!!

 

[petomed]

What is your annual total cost of attendance? How much are you anticipating being in the hole for after completing residency? How many years do you plan on taking to repay? I will be 31 upon matriculating, these are the most nagging questions I have. Thanks for offering yourself up!

 

[Eccesignum]

I’m a 27yo RN currently working in a medical ICU. I’m also a single mom with a 5yo daughter. I started out in pre med my freshman year of college but it was a hard year and I “settled” with nursing.... it was easier, less time, less loans, etc. I thought I was making the right choice then but I’ve never been able to overcome the feeling that I settled for nursing instead of pursuing what I always wanted to do- be a doctor.
I’ve been accepted into 3 major schools in my area to take my core sciences I need for med school that I didn’t do in nursing school. I figure, taking 16+ credit hours a semester including summer, I’ll be done in 18 months. By the time I’m done with med school and residency I’ll be ~38yo. I’m not married, I may want more kids, and I feel like I’ll be spending the remaining “good years” I have left of my youth in school.
The biggest problem I have is being so conflicted. My heart wants to be a doctor and I’m not sure I’ll ecee be fully satisfied with myself until I accomplish that. On the other hand, the odds seem stacked against me and I REALLY don’t want to sacrifice having a life and family for a degree.
Any thoughts/insights/experience would be very appreciated!

I'm a former ER RN, so I feel you on that. While I don't regret a minute of it, I became an RN (transitioning from a prior career before that) because I knew healthcare was the right thing but at the time I felt I had no chance at medical school. After I had been working a while and had heard many stories from non-traditional doctors that I got to know, I went back to undergrad at 32.

I was 36 when I started medical school and I'll be 40 when I start residency. I have zero problem with that; I spent my twenties working in multiple countries overseas and had awesome experiences. I look forward to more once I'm solid in this profession, as I don't consider my 40s and 50s to be anywhere near the "end" of my youth. But I also have next to no desire for the marriage-kids-settle down thing, so the choice was probably a bit easier for me than for many. A friend of mine a few weeks ago asked me how I could live so long by myself and I said, quite truthfully, that if it's a choice between personal fulfillment and having a "normal" life then it's not even a contest.

There's been more than one student (males and females) in my class and surrounding classes who've had babies during medical school. I can't comment on how difficult it is, I have no way of knowing.

The road towards even applying for medical school is a path that takes time, and you have quite a while left to think about it. I would talk to all the physicians you can find, especially females with families since that's your sticking point, and get to know what their lives were like during school and residency, and their opinions on timing for more family, etc. I think you'll find many physicians are very open to talking if they know you're honestly considering medical school and want to talk about the "life costs" seriously.

 

[Eccesignum]

What is your annual total cost of attendance? How much are you anticipating being in the hole for after completing residency? How many years do you plan on taking to repay? I will be 31 upon matriculating, these are the most nagging questions I have. Thanks for offering yourself up!

Combining what I couldn't pay out of pocket during Undergrand Round Two plus tuition in med school plus living expenses, I'll be about 220k in the hole the day I graduate, at age 40. That's pretty terrifying, can't lie.

Repayment...well. We'll see what happens to PSLF in the next few years, as that is an option I would consider but we'll see if it still exists in 2020. I would prefer to pay it off as fast as possible to be honest; if that means living on a 40k a year budget for a few years as an attending and shoveling every spare penny into debt then that's fine by me. I don't have and don't intend to have a family or much else to need to spend the money on, and freedom from debt means a lot to me.

I encourage you to reach out to financial aid at your school early, like the day you arrive. Many schools have very good debt management programs or contracts with debt management professionals and can hook you up early with someone to talk to about best strategies for the future.

 

[petomed]

Combining what I couldn't pay out of pocket during Undergrand Round Two plus tuition in med school plus living expenses, I'll be about 220k in the hole the day I graduate, at age 40. That's pretty terrifying, can't lie.

Repayment...well. We'll see what happens to PSLF in the next few years, as that is an option I would consider but we'll see if it still exists in 2020. I would prefer to pay it off as fast as possible to be honest; if that means living on a 40k a year budget for a few years as an attending and shoveling every spare penny into debt then that's fine by me. I don't have and don't intend to have a family or much else to need to spend the money on, and freedom from debt means a lot to me.

I encourage you to reach out to financial aid at your school early, like the day you arrive. Many schools have very good debt management programs or contracts with debt management professionals and can hook you up early with someone to talk to about best strategies for the future.

Graduation day is one thing, after residency is where you will finally have real ability to repay the 220k. Assuming an interest rate of 7%, that's a flat 15.4k interest per year of residency. Tack 4 years of that on to the initial 220k, and it's a bit north of 280k without including marginal repayments during residency or compound interest. This still seems low to me if your taking out loans for everything, but maybe your tuition is much better than my state schools. I'm sure you've been through all this before but man is it a big bump in my road!

 

[Eccesignum]

Graduation day is one thing, after residency is where you will finally have real ability to repay the 220k. Assuming an interest rate of 7%, that's a flat 15.4k interest per year of residency. Tack 4 years of that on to the initial 220k, and it's a bit north of 280k without including marginal repayments during residency or compound interest. This still seems low to me if your taking out loans for everything, but maybe your tuition is much better than my state schools. I'm sure you've been through all this before but man is it a big bump in my road!

My school's tuition is lower than average, yes, and I have a partial scholarship. I misread your question and didn't see the part about after residency, would've highballed a bit more. But basically, yes.

 

[libahli]

As @Eccesignum is probably the reason I had such a successful admissions cycle (am an incoming M2), I highly recommend listening to her advice about everything in life. J/k (sort of)!

Anyhow, quick question. Now that you’ve taken Step I, what would you recommend to an incoming M2 in terms of board prep (both throughout the year and during dedicated)? Hoping to hit the ground running. My school has a traditional curriculum if it makes any difference (and average Step scores). I tend to hate anki/flashcards. Any advice appreciated!

And I hear you on the budgeting/finances. It can super suck. I actually got a decent scholarship too and thought I had a budget that worked perfectly but then had some unexpected and unavoidable costs (still ongoing) that made me grateful to have savings to dip into. Very glad I hadn’t used those savings to pay for tuition (took out fed loans) because it was just easier to access that money and also made it mentally easier to pay for those costs without freaking out about increasing my debt even more.


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[Eccesignum]

As @Eccesignum is probably the reason I had such a successful admissions cycle (am an incoming M2), I highly recommend listening to her advice about everything in life. J/k (sort of)!

Anyhow, quick question. Now that you’ve taken Step I, what would you recommend to an incoming M2 in terms of board prep (both throughout the year and during dedicated)? Hoping to hit the ground running. My school has a traditional curriculum if it makes any difference (and average Step scores). I tend to hate anki/flashcards. Any advice appreciated!

And I hear you on the budgeting/finances. It can super suck. I actually got a decent scholarship too and thought I had a budget that worked perfectly but then had some unexpected and unavoidable costs (still ongoing) that made me grateful to have savings to dip into. Very glad I hadn’t used those savings to pay for tuition (took out fed loans) because it was just easier to access that money and also made it mentally easier to pay for those costs without freaking out about increasing my debt even more.


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Glad to have been of service 😉 Good to see you, you survived M1! M2 was definitely harder on an intellectual level, but also easier in that I'd figured out my stride in M1 and knew exactly how to get focused. I actually found I had more time in M2 for non-school things because I'd become much better at time budgeting.

Step 1 is...phew. First of all I wouldn't start freaking out about it right now. You haven't even learned half of what's on Step 1 at this point. I started studying over spring break of M2, and I think if I'd tried to do anything more I would have burned out.

First of all Cramfighter (http://cramfighter.com/) is an excellent resource for planning your studying. You can plug in all your resources and how much time you have and it will come up with a study schedule for you that is easily adjustable as you move forward. Give yourself enough time to get through everything but be aware burnout is real. As I said I started full on over spring break, dropped to about half speed during our final module, then balls to the wall during dedicated and seriously...by Step 1 time I was seriously over it...just mentally exhausted.

Second, UWorld. I got UWorld for a year and that was a bit of a waste of money since the only thing I did with it during first semester was do some respiratory questions during that module (as our prof likes to make his exams USMLE-like so doing some was rather useful). Then it gathered dust til spring. Looking back I would've gotten it for six months only tbh, but your mileage may vary. You want to get through UWorld twice, do not pass Go, do not collect two hundred dollars. If you do nothing else, do that. There's two thousand something questions in UWorld so that's 4k+ questions by game time. By the start of our dedicated study time I was most of the way through a first pass already.

Third, manage your resources. There are a LOT of resources out there and you don't want to get overwhelmed. I used First Aid as a reference, Boards and Beyond for my main video review guide, UWorld, Costanzo Physiology, and some videos from USMLE-Rx (but not many). Netter's for reference on the anatomy questions. I can't recommend Boards and Beyond enough; his videos are so concise and wonderfully explained. I wish I'd known about them earlier and had watched them during my actual classes, he's better than some of our profs lol.

Fourth, practice tests. UWorld comes with two, and NBME sells practice tests here: https://nsas.nbme.org/. Your school likely will give you an NBME exam a few weeks before dedicated starts so you can see where your start point is. After that take a practice exam once every week or so (I did mine on Friday mornings then usually took the rest of the day off for a brain break). UWorld 2 is rumored to be the most accurate with respect to score -- I can't vouch as I don't have my Step score back yet -- so consider leaving that for the last one you take. Your score will likely be crap on the first exam, that's fine. Just make sure it goes up with every test, and be aware at some point you'll start to level off. It happens to everyone, we all have our peak.

Fifth, make sure you do the drive to the test center at least once, at the hour when you'd need to on test day (and on the same day of the week as test day). My test center was about 40 minutes from my apartment and I actually decided to stay in a hotel five minutes from the site the night before as I was too paranoid about the traffic here. Most test centers have a "practice exam" you can pay for that lets you go do some blocks under simulated test conditions. I did not do this but I know some people did just to get comfortable with everything. Getting past security takes forever so get there early AF on test day. Bring food (I brought way too much lol). I was worried about drinking coffee and having to pee in the middle of a block (you can't pause blocks unless it's an emergency) so I stopped drinking coffee a week before to make sure my body wouldn't miss it.

There's more I could tell you, but I'll stop here for now lol. Send me a PM and I can hook you up with some choice stuff that I've collected over the past year.

 

[libahli]

Glad to have been of service 😉 Good to see you, you survived M1! M2 was definitely harder on an intellectual level, but also easier in that I'd figured out my stride in M1 and knew exactly how to get focused. I actually found I had more time in M2 for non-school things because I'd become much better at time budgeting.

Step 1 is...phew. First of all I wouldn't start freaking out about it right now. You haven't even learned half of what's on Step 1 at this point. I started studying over spring break of M2, and I think if I'd tried to do anything more I would have burned out.

First of all Cramfighter (http://cramfighter.com/) is an excellent resource for planning your studying. You can plug in all your resources and how much time you have and it will come up with a study schedule for you that is easily adjustable as you move forward. Give yourself enough time to get through everything but be aware burnout is real. As I said I started full on over spring break, dropped to about half speed during our final module, then balls to the wall during dedicated and seriously...by Step 1 time I was seriously over it...just mentally exhausted.

Second, UWorld. I got UWorld for a year and that was a bit of a waste of money since the only thing I did with it during first semester was do some respiratory questions during that module (as our prof likes to make his exams USMLE-like so doing some was rather useful). Then it gathered dust til spring. Looking back I would've gotten it for six months only tbh, but your mileage may vary. You want to get through UWorld twice, do not pass Go, do not collect two hundred dollars. If you do nothing else, do that. There's two thousand something questions in UWorld so that's 4k+ questions by game time. By the start of our dedicated study time I was most of the way through a first pass already.

Third, manage your resources. There are a LOT of resources out there and you don't want to get overwhelmed. I used First Aid as a reference, Boards and Beyond for my main video review guide, UWorld, Costanzo Physiology, and some videos from USMLE-Rx (but not many). Netter's for reference on the anatomy questions. I can't recommend Boards and Beyond enough; his videos are so concise and wonderfully explained. I wish I'd known about them earlier and had watched them during my actual classes, he's better than some of our profs lol.

Fourth, practice tests. UWorld comes with two, and NBME sells practice tests here: https://nsas.nbme.org/. Your school likely will give you an NBME exam a few weeks before dedicated starts so you can see where your start point is. After that take a practice exam once every week or so (I did mine on Friday mornings then usually took the rest of the day off for a brain break). UWorld 2 is rumored to be the most accurate with respect to score -- I can't vouch as I don't have my Step score back yet -- so consider leaving that for the last one you take. Your score will likely be crap on the first exam, that's fine. Just make sure it goes up with every test, and be aware at some point you'll start to level off. It happens to everyone, we all have our peak.

Fifth, make sure you do the drive to the test center at least once, at the hour when you'd need to on test day (and on the same day of the week as test day). My test center was about 40 minutes from my apartment and I actually decided to stay in a hotel five minutes from the site the night before as I was too paranoid about the traffic here. Most test centers have a "practice exam" you can pay for that lets you go do some blocks under simulated test conditions. I did not do this but I know some people did just to get comfortable with everything. Getting past security takes forever so get there early AF on test day. Bring food (I brought way too much lol). I was worried about drinking coffee and having to pee in the middle of a block (you can't pause blocks unless it's an emergency) so I stopped drinking coffee a week before to make sure my body wouldn't miss it.

There's more I could tell you, but I'll stop here for now lol. Send me a PM and I can hook you up with some choice stuff that I've collected over the past year.

As usual, incredible advice from you and way more than I could have ever expected when I asked!

I haaaaate prometric testing centers. Their computers are old and wobbly and their stupid fingerprint readers can never read my fingers because I’m always cold. Ugh.

Will send you a PM 🙂


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[Eccesignum]

I've started surgery rotation so I won't be answering anything further on here for now (but others can feel free to keep going if there are more questions that land here). Good luck everyone, wherever in life you are.