DoctaJay

bone breaker
Moderator Emeritus
10+ Year Member
Jan 23, 2005
3,014
45
USA
doctajay.com
Status
Attending Physician
I know that most of us have already seen this chart, I just thought it would be nice to have it on here for a quick reference.



More comprehensive chart made by Pinkertinkle:

 

Blesbok

10+ Year Member
7+ Year Member
Sep 27, 2007
1,369
5
Status
Medical Student
I am quite suprised that diagnostic radiology has surpassed ortho this year. I guess I knew it was coming since it is a lifestyle residency and all.
 

soeagerun2or

Membership Revoked
Removed
10+ Year Member
Sep 27, 2006
566
3
Status
I read charting outcomes and didn't really understand what is being reported in this figure. Is that the mean or median score. Also, what are the lines above and below the number? I'm tempted to think they would be standard deviation, however if you look at the independents it appears more like a range or perhaps 75 %ile (since no specialty appears to dip below 195).
 
About the Ads

-Goose-

10+ Year Member
Jul 7, 2005
1,728
10
Status
Resident [Any Field]
I am quite suprised that diagnostic radiology has surpassed ortho this year. I guess I knew it was coming since it is a lifestyle residency and all.
Only by one point. Keep it in perspective.

I am surprised how low Gas is on that list. I was under the impression that it was more competitive in terms of Step 1 scores.
 

Blesbok

10+ Year Member
7+ Year Member
Sep 27, 2007
1,369
5
Status
Medical Student
I am also suprised PM&R isn't more competitive. It isn't very high paying, but it is a cush lifestyle.
 
OP
DoctaJay

DoctaJay

bone breaker
Moderator Emeritus
10+ Year Member
Jan 23, 2005
3,014
45
USA
doctajay.com
Status
Attending Physician
I read charting outcomes and didn't really understand what is being reported in this figure. Is that the mean or median score. Also, what are the lines above and below the number? I'm tempted to think they would be standard deviation, however if you look at the independents it appears more like a range or perhaps 75 %ile (since no specialty appears to dip below 195).
Yeah, that is the way I saw it. The number is the mean Step 1 score, and the lines above and below are the actual range (upper limit and lower limit).
 
OP
DoctaJay

DoctaJay

bone breaker
Moderator Emeritus
10+ Year Member
Jan 23, 2005
3,014
45
USA
doctajay.com
Status
Attending Physician
I am very happy that General Surgery smack dab in the middle. I mean, I want to do well on Step 1, but I usually end up doing average on these standardized exams, so hopefully I can either hit that score or a little higher.
 

mules05

Member
10+ Year Member
5+ Year Member
Jul 17, 2005
237
1
Status
Yeah, that is the way I saw it. The number is the mean Step 1 score, and the lines above and below are the actual range (upper limit and lower limit).
The number is the mean and the lines above and below are 25th to 75th percentile- if you go through the rest of Charting Outcomes, every specialty has much higher upper limits (just about every specialty includes at least a few applicants in the 260 range).
 

mikedc813

10+ Year Member
15+ Year Member
Mar 15, 2004
1,113
3
Baltimore
www.studentdoctor.net
Status
Attending Physician
So is ophthalmology included under transitional year? As well as urology?
No, transitional year is a separate entity. Ophthalmology and urology go through their own match so they are not included here.

Also, keep in mind this data from the 2007 match. This year's match data has not yet been published.
 

dienekes88

10+ Year Member
Jan 21, 2008
1,750
170
Status
Resident [Any Field]
The number is the mean and the lines above and below are 25th to 75th percentile- if you go through the rest of Charting Outcomes, every specialty has much higher upper limits (just about every specialty includes at least a few applicants in the 260 range).
Interquartile range uses the median.

If it were mean, they'd use standard deviation.

As you said, interquartile range is a better statistic than range for figuring out if you're competitive, because those pesky outliers, e.g. the 260 Step 1er who wants to pursue PM&R, can throw things off.
 

Colbert

10+ Year Member
Mar 23, 2007
508
10
Status
Resident [Any Field]
Can someone give me a brief description of what Transitional Year even really is? I haven't a clue.
 
About the Ads

bodonid

Dr. Spaceman
10+ Year Member
5+ Year Member
Jul 18, 2007
1,885
2
Status
Medical Student
Transitional and Preliminary are two different one year PGY1s that are required for certain specialties.

Prelim is general ed for a more specialized field. i.e. dermatology may require a preliminary year in internal medicine. Urology may require a preliminary year in general surgery.

Transitional is like M3, except you get paid. Some do transitional if they still aren't sure, some do it because they can get away with doing this instead of prelim. Considered easier than preliminary, I think.

(But I'm a long way away, so if anyone wants to correct, feel free!)

Also, why is the 25th percentile for plastics from IMGs so friggin low?
 

Blesbok

10+ Year Member
7+ Year Member
Sep 27, 2007
1,369
5
Status
Medical Student
Transitional and Preliminary are two different one year PGY1s that are required for certain specialties.

Prelim is general ed for a more specialized field. i.e. dermatology may require a preliminary year in internal medicine. Urology may require a preliminary year in general surgery.

Transitional is like M3, except you get paid. Some do transitional if they still aren't sure, some do it because they can get away with doing this instead of prelim. Considered easier than preliminary, I think.

(But I'm a long way away, so if anyone wants to correct, feel free!)

Also, why is the 25th percentile for plastics from IMGs so friggin low?
Probably because there were like 4 of them that got in and they were all renowned plastic surgeons in their home country and not fresh foreign graduates. :laugh:
 

AlberttheGator

Member
10+ Year Member
Jul 4, 2006
179
0
Gatorcountry
Status
Pre-Medical
Radiology is not a lifestyle residency.
 

Long Dong

My middle name is Duc.
10+ Year Member
Aug 8, 2004
1,894
11
The Best Coast
Status
Attending Physician
Can someone give me a brief description of what Transitional Year even really is? I haven't a clue.
I'm currently doing my transitional year and I'll tell you what my intern year intalls:

2 months of Internal Medicine Q4 overnight call (14 overnight call total)
1 month ICU no call
2 months surgery no call (2 weeks night float)
2 months peds no call (2 weeks night float)
1 month emergency medicine (16 12 hour shifts)
4 months of electives, I'm doing path, ID, plactics, and maybe rhuem.
 

kpod

10+ Year Member
Mar 11, 2007
28
0
Status
Medical Student
Just out of curiosity, is the max 270? I've never heard of anything higher than the 260's. (which is stupidly high anyway...given what the mean is for any of the programs).
 

Blesbok

10+ Year Member
7+ Year Member
Sep 27, 2007
1,369
5
Status
Medical Student
Just out of curiosity, is the max 270? I've never heard of anything higher than the 260's. (which is stupidly high anyway...given what the mean is for any of the programs).
I actually thought it was 280, but according to wikipedia, which sites the tulane website, the theoretical maximum is a 300. The highest I know of someone personally getting was a 268 from our school last year.
 

MSKalltheway

I got the magic stick
10+ Year Member
7+ Year Member
Jan 16, 2007
832
3
Status
Resident [Any Field]
I am also suprised PM&R isn't more competitive. It isn't very high paying, but it is a cush lifestyle.
And it can stay right where it is until I match :hardy:

The earnings can be quite good if you play your cards right.
 

Team Zissou

10+ Year Member
Sep 19, 2006
539
0
Status
I looked at the SF match stats and I think ophtho falls at around a 229 average...so I'd say highly competitive.
 
About the Ads

Pontifex Maximus

Rads-a-palooza
10+ Year Member
15+ Year Member
Mar 18, 2003
2,757
6
Pittsburgh, PA
Status
Resident [Any Field]
He's right to some extent - Rads can be a very cush lifestyle AFTER residency if you work it that way, but the rads residents work their asses off.
 

-Goose-

10+ Year Member
Jul 7, 2005
1,728
10
Status
Resident [Any Field]
He's right to some extent - Rads can be a very cush lifestyle AFTER residency if you work it that way, but the rads residents work their asses off.
Meh. Its kind of apples vs. oranges. The work done in rads in really a different kind of work than surgery or IM or EM. Less physical work, more chained to a desk in a dark room kind of mentally exhausting work.

Another thing you must consider is that rads residents have to read A LOT when they go home. This adds to the hours of work that you see listed.

From what I have heard, I also think that rads is becoming less of a "lifestyle" specialty after residency. Theres just soo many films to be read. I'm sure one of the rads forum regulars will talk about this (Hans, etc).
 
About the Ads

Team Zissou

10+ Year Member
Sep 19, 2006
539
0
Status
thanks pinker..but what about urology. Is it typically a tougher field to get into? Do you know the average step 1? Thanks, TZ.
 

yaah

Boring
Staff member
Administrator
15+ Year Member
Aug 15, 2003
28,008
382
Fixing in 10% neutral buffered formalin
Status
Attending Physician
I didn't expect pathology to be higher than OB-GYN, neurology, and anesthesiology.
Pathologists are often smart and/or good test takers (lots of high scores, raises the average). They didn't choose path because they couldn't get something else they wanted more. That's all it means. It's kind of a weird field, not a lot of overlap with anything else. Obviously there are people in every field who are in it because it's their first choice field, but there are very few people who "slide down" into path from other fields (i.e. picking it as a fallback), whereas there are in almost everything else.

And by the way, if anyone tries to take what I said as a slam on some specialty or another, go back and read it again.
 

Pinkertinkle

2003 Member
10+ Year Member
15+ Year Member
Oct 16, 2003
5,004
80
Status
Attending Physician
thanks pinker..but what about urology. Is it typically a tougher field to get into? Do you know the average step 1? Thanks, TZ.
Urology match information is very hard to find. I have not found it, I would guess its near ortho/rads level. If anyone has it, plz post.
 

njbmd

Guest
Moderator Emeritus
5+ Year Member
15+ Year Member
May 30, 2001
9,050
146
Gone Walkabout!
Visit site
Status
Attending Physician
Transitional and Preliminary are two different one year PGY1s that are required for certain specialties.

Prelim is general ed for a more specialized field. i.e. dermatology may require a preliminary year in internal medicine. Urology may require a preliminary year in general surgery.

Transitional is like M3, except you get paid. Some do transitional if they still aren't sure, some do it because they can get away with doing this instead of prelim. Considered easier than preliminary, I think.

(But I'm a long way away, so if anyone wants to correct, feel free!)

Also, why is the 25th percentile for plastics from IMGs so friggin low?
Transitional years are like the old "rotating" internship. Many derm, optho, rads, rad onc, path, psych and anesthesia residents will opt to do a transitional PGY-1 because they can get more electives and because they can get more experience in ped and adult medicine. The transitional year is an great option for these specialties as opposed to doing a straight prelim year in surgery or internal medicine especially if they want more variety. Transitional years are generally more competitive than either prelim medicine or prelim surgery.
 

Slide

Finally, no more "training"
10+ Year Member
Oct 12, 2005
1,024
147
34
Status
Attending Physician
Nice chart. :thumbup:

I didn't expect Ophtho to be 231, just by hearing about its competitiveness and browsing through that sub-forum, I expected averages to be in the upper 230s.
 

Blesbok

10+ Year Member
7+ Year Member
Sep 27, 2007
1,369
5
Status
Medical Student
Pathologists are often smart and/or good test takers (lots of high scores, raises the average). They didn't choose path because they couldn't get something else they wanted more. That's all it means. It's kind of a weird field, not a lot of overlap with anything else. Obviously there are people in every field who are in it because it's their first choice field, but there are very few people who "slide down" into path from other fields (i.e. picking it as a fallback), whereas there are in almost everything else.

And by the way, if anyone tries to take what I said as a slam on some specialty or another, go back and read it again.
It is also sick, the amount of knowledge that a seasoned pathologist has.
 
OP
DoctaJay

DoctaJay

bone breaker
Moderator Emeritus
10+ Year Member
Jan 23, 2005
3,014
45
USA
doctajay.com
Status
Attending Physician
Pathologists are often smart and/or good test takers (lots of high scores, raises the average). They didn't choose path because they couldn't get something else they wanted more. That's all it means. It's kind of a weird field, not a lot of overlap with anything else. Obviously there are people in every field who are in it because it's their first choice field, but there are very few people who "slide down" into path from other fields (i.e. picking it as a fallback), whereas there are in almost everything else.

And by the way, if anyone tries to take what I said as a slam on some specialty or another, go back and read it again.
What you said makes a ton of sense. To me it seems like pathology and psychiatry are the 2 fields that one has to absolutely love to go into. I guess path just has some better test takers.

To be honest, I'm getting kind of scared. I've been reading Rubin's textbook of Pathology and I'm loving it. Hopefully it rubs off soon :D.
 

Blesbok

10+ Year Member
7+ Year Member
Sep 27, 2007
1,369
5
Status
Medical Student
What you said makes a ton of sense. To me it seems like pathology and psychiatry are the 2 fields that one has to absolutely love to go into. I guess path just has some better test takers.

To be honest, I'm getting kind of scared. I've been reading Rubin's textbook of Pathology and I'm loving it. Hopefully it rubs off soon :D.
You don't want to be a pathologist. The amount of time they spend in the basement will turn even the blackest black man a nice shade of pasty white. :laugh:
 
OP
DoctaJay

DoctaJay

bone breaker
Moderator Emeritus
10+ Year Member
Jan 23, 2005
3,014
45
USA
doctajay.com
Status
Attending Physician
Ha, we'll see.

It seems like General Surgery is pretty much average in terms of Step 1. I wonder how hard it is to bust a 222?
 

Blesbok

10+ Year Member
7+ Year Member
Sep 27, 2007
1,369
5
Status
Medical Student
I have a window! It's the radiologists who are in the basement.
Ya, but all the xrays and gamma rays and manta rays leave them a nice shade of burnt orange.
 

MossPoh

Textures intrigue me
10+ Year Member
7+ Year Member
Apr 24, 2006
7,990
45
Tally/Willkillya County
psu.facebook.com
Status
Medical Student
I have a window! It's the radiologists who are in the basement.
Naw, they aren't in the basement......they are in the spare closets scattered sparingly throughout the hospital.

The basement is too spacious and well lit.
 
About the Ads