step 2 score required for ranking?

[lambda242]

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so, i'm having difficulty finding explicit information on this anywhere, including program websites. my questions is whether step 2 cs/ck scores must be submitted to programs in order for them to rank you this year. i feel like i've heard lots of different things and it seems to vary from specialty to specialty, as well as whether you are MD or MD/PhD. anybody have any insight into this? thanks.

 

[OldPsychDoc]

so, i'm having difficulty finding explicit information on this anywhere, including program websites. my questions is whether step 2 cs/ck scores must be submitted to programs in order for them to rank you this year. i feel like i've heard lots of different things and it seems to vary from specialty to specialty, as well as whether you are MD or MD/PhD. anybody have any insight into this? thanks.

It may be program-dependent. But from my perspective, it would be a bad risk to rank someone who hadn't passed, because they won't be able to start residency if they miss it.

 

[notdeadyet]

The program I matched at requires both Step II's proven passed before ranking. Several others I talked to didn't care and several strongly suggested it be done.

My takeaway was that even at programs that didn't require proof of passing both Step II's, not having them could affect position on the rank list. As OPD mentions, it just adds a wild card to the equation.

 

[ahhoss]

What about having Step I and II CK on your application before interviews, but getting CS results after rank? Months ago, when I scheduled both Step II exams, all 2012 dates had been booked for CS, so I'm taking it Thursday (1/10/13). I'm hoping that as an amg, and having been offered interviews from programs without CS scores, that's an indication of sufficient demonstration of performance before ranking.

Are there any particular psychiatry programs that are strict on having CS results before ranking?

 

[notdeadyet]

What about having Step I and II CK on your application before interviews, but getting CS results after rank?

The programs i was talking about that required CS and CK prior to ranking required the test results, they didn't care that you took them, they cared that you passed...

 

[quirks]

What about having Step I and II CK on your application before interviews, but getting CS results after rank? Months ago, when I scheduled both Step II exams, all 2012 dates had been booked for CS, so I'm taking it Thursday (1/10/13). I'm hoping that as an amg, and having been offered interviews from programs without CS scores, that's an indication of sufficient demonstration of performance before ranking.

Are there any particular psychiatry programs that are strict on having CS results before ranking?

I'm in the same boat essentially. None of the programs I interviewed at said they wanted me to have CS, and they said nothing about it on the interview day, so I will not have my score back before ranking. Step I and Step II Ck scores are out though, and were for my application. I'm not concerned.

As far as I'm aware, UCSF and Harvard Longwood do want CS scores.

 

[PikminOC]

It may be program-dependent. But from my perspective, it would be a bad risk to rank someone who hadn't passed, because they won't be able to start residency if they miss it.

👍

I actually had to pass Step 3 prior to getting into my PGY2 position.

 

[liquidshadow22]

when do programs typically finalize their rank lists? Would you say the latest you could take the Step 2 CK and have your scores back in time would be Mid-January?

 

[splik]

programs typically finalize their rank lists middle of february (-ish). but if they are interested in you as long as you have your score before RoL deadline you are okay just don't leave it too late. remember its not necessary for many/most programs to have completed step 2CS/CK - depends on the state often. massachusetts requires you to have completed them in order to start residency, and I think maybe california, but some states don't require the USMLEs at all to start residency so variable. also may depend on if med school requires it for graduation. essentially anything that would stop you work come July 1st/June 25th/whenever the increasingly early beginning of intern year is.

 

[liquidshadow22]

Rank list deadline is Feb 25, 2015 for applicants. This is the same for programs? So you would agree Mid-January is probably the latest date to take it without it causing an issue? Takes 4 wks to get the score back.

But I probably just need to check with all the programs I have interviewed out to see what their policy is in regard to ranking without a step 2 ck score is...

 

[OldPsychDoc]

Our ranking deadline is the same as yours, but I doubt that there are any decent programs that wait that long. Most are done interviewing by late January, and convene their final ranking process in early February.

We've dropped people off the list for lack of passed 2CK and/or CS.

Don't put it off.

 

[MacDonaldTriad]

This /\ Many training directors have risked listing applicants until they have been burned once (someone they match not graduating). Almost no training director get burned twice.

 

[HarryMTieboutMD]

I took CS in late December (originally I was scheduled to take it in october or Nov but I had to change my schedule because I ran the Chicago marathon, and I couldn't miss more than 1 day/week on my medicine sub-I), with the results not coming until the first week of February. One program emailed me mid January asking about the status of my CS result, but other than that, I am not sure it mattered that much. My results came in adequate time for at least my number one program to rank me, as that is where I matched.

HOWEVER, I would recommend taking it as early as possible because 4th year of medical school is amazing, and you don't want to be burdened/stressed with this $1200 scam, especially now that it is NOT a guaranteed pass for people who speak English fluently. As mentioned above, it's essentially a variable within your control (assuming you prepare enough and pass), so yes, earlier rather than later.

 

[TexasPhysician]

Step 2 is not a requirement at most programs to rank. If your step 1 was close to failing, step 2 becomes more important. No program wants a resident that can't pass the steps to get a state license.

I have friends who did not release step 2 and have matched in the most competitive fields.

 

[liquidshadow22]

Our ranking deadline is the same as yours, but I doubt that there are any decent programs that wait that long. Most are done interviewing by late January, and convene their final ranking process in early February.

We've dropped people off the list for lack of passed 2CK and/or CS.

Don't put it off.

I have a pretty strong step 1, would I still get dropped off the list without a step 2 ck? Or is this rule primarily for people with low step 1 scores as TexasPhysician suggests?

 

[OldPsychDoc]

I have a pretty strong step 1, would I still get dropped off the list without a step 2 ck? Or is this rule primarily for people with low step 1 scores as TexasPhysician suggests?

It depends...how strong? How's the rest of the app? How were your interviews? How sure are we about you?

Basically, if you're being ranked alongside people who have the score in hand--guess who gets ranked higher.
Why are you wanting to leave it up to our imagination?

 

[masterofmonkeys]

What OPD said. We don't require it, but it mostly helps. I do advise all medical students to get it done in advance of ranking deadlines regardless of the program's requirements for those reasons.

 

[MacDonaldTriad]

OK, let’s summarize,
Attendings say that step II CK helps regardless if it is required or not.
Others can site many examples of people who got into good programs without step II
Attendings remind us that you are being ranked against each other and step II helps.

Now you can choose to look at this from your own perspective and needs.

 

[TexasPhysician]

OK, let’s summarize,
Attendings say that step II CK helps regardless if it is required or not.
Others can site many examples of people who got into good programs without step II
Attendings remind us that you are being ranked against each other and step II helps.

Now you can choose to look at this from your own perspective and needs.

I don't think anyone is arguing that a passing step 2 is anything other than a plus.

The OP asked if it is a requirement to be on the rank list. At a vast majority of programs, it is not. Also, the higher the step 1, the less important step 2 becomes. A Midwest or south program is not very concerned about someone with an AMG with Step 1 of 225 failing step 2. They will most likely be delighted regardless of step 2. The odds that Harvard sees things differently is high. They can be more stringent without dipping to lesser candidates, and step 2 is another way to narrow the large list.

If at all possible, I would still recommend taking step 2 in time to receive a score before rank lists are due.