step 2

[IRISH22]

Im new around here, so let me start by saying congrats to all who just matched. I just figured out that I want to do rad onc and now Im scrambling to get my ducks in a row. Thanks for all the advice so far, esp this guide which is really helpful...

1) although Ive never seen it officially on this board, I gather that many people who did well on step 1 purposefully took step 2 late with the thought that it would only hurt them. Is this correct? Do most of you recommend that strategy?

2) i see that most people did research and got publications. I was thinking surgery up until last month and have NO research at all to date. were any of you in my shoes, or did you all somehow know how awesome this field was before your 4th year? what do you recommend for someone with precious little time (<1yr now) to throw something together?

Thanks for you help and advice!

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[Impressions]

Step II: There are a handful of programs that require a Step II score to consider you for an interview, but most do not. Many applicants post-poned Step II as a result. I, however, had to take Step II early due to a policy my medical school has, and it helped a lot. I had a very good Step I score but I raised by Step II by 19 points.

Research: You have got to have some research even if it is an incomplete chart review. It is the main topic of a lot of interviews. If you are motivated and work hard, you have enough time to get a small project finished and start writting the abstract/manuscript. I would go to your home program and let them know you want a project or two that you could finish by Sept. It also doesn't hurt to continue to work on projects during interview season.

 

[The_Fly]

Step II: There are a handful of programs that require a Step II score to consider you for an interview, but most do not. Many applicants post-poned Step II as a result. I, however, had to take Step II early due to a policy my medical school has, and it helped a lot. I had a very good Step I score but I raised by Step II by 19 points.

Research: You have got to have some research even if it is an incomplete chart review. It is the main topic of a lot of interviews. If you are motivated and work hard, you have enough time to get a small project finished and start writting the abstract/manuscript. I would go to your home program and let them know you want a project or two that you could finish by Sept. It also doesn't hurt to continue to work on projects during interview season.

What programs require a step II score? All I can say is that I did well on Step 1 and postponed II as long as possible, which is why I am preparing for the test now. . . ugh.

 

[IRISH22]

so with strong (ie 240+) board scores do you recommend taking step 2, or waiting it out until after the applications. It seems like many of you did this and I'm wondering how it worked out.

 

[Gfunk6]

Regardless of your Step I score, there is absolutely no reason to take Step II until after application season with two exceptions:

1. Your school mandates that you do.
2. You are CONFIDENT that you can score higher (I recommend using the NBME exams for the best approximation of your Step 2 score).

 

[stephew]

you dont havfe to score higher. just reasonably. Dont bomb it.
Also among the MUST take its: if youre an img.

 

[napoleondynamite]

I sucked it up on step 1 & was counciled to take step 2 early to show that I'm a good test-taker. My thought was, "well, what if I bomb step 2??" So I just rolled the dice and sent in my apps without step 2. I was asked a couple of times (almost in passing) when I planned on taking step 2...however, as has been said on these boards elsewhere, it's possible to get into radonc with average or even low scores..you just have to strenghthen your app in other ways. If you smoked step 1, or even did above average on it..I don't see a lot of reason to stress yourself out over taking step 2 early. There is way too much other stuff you could be doing to improve your odds of getting in during those precious few months of the first half of 4th year. I tend to think your time is MUCH better spent doing research (as long as you're going to get your name on something..otherwise it's pretty pointless), away rotations at places for letters or audition rotations, etc.

 

[RLMD]

Dont worry about Step 2. If your step 1 is good and you arent positive you can do better, put it off until around Dec. or Jan. I dont think test scores matter nearly as much in this field as other competitive fields. My scores were only mentioned by a handful of interviewers on the trail. And only one program I applied to explicitly asked for Step 2 to be considered for an interview. Only one interviewer at one interview asked if I had taken Step 2 yet.

Research is a different matter. DO THE RESEARCH. You have to do something. You may get screened out by many programs otherwise.

Goodluck

 

[chuwoods]

My school requires that we take Step 2 before some dealine in November. I was thinking about taking it at the end of July (after 3rd year). Did any of you think that having more 4th year rotations under your belt helped you prepare for the test or was it down-hill after 3rd year?

thanks

 

[libaobao8]

Just want to add one more voice to convince you that you don't need to worry about step 2. Research is far more important and you can definitely pull it off within the next few months. Work your tail off and try to get at least one abstract. Tell the PI upfront that you NEED publication. Be VERY aggressive about putting whatever results you have together for an abstract/manucript, ie, don't wait for your PI to say "let's write an abstract", or wait until you feel that you have enough data. Start abstract/manuscript writing as early as possible, and tell your PI when you are doing it. And try to find a PI who is well-known and well-respected in the field (ie big name)

Don't worry too much about the time frame. I didn't start my research project until July of my 4th year, and had to spend the first 2 weeks reading about the statistical methods that I was using. But I continued to work on this project all the way through my interviews. It worked out well. I think you've got plenty of time, but have to work hard.

You don't need to have your abstract/manuscript accepted to look good. "submitted" or "In preparation" is enough. But it's absolutely important to make your research highly visible on ERAS -- best way - under the "publication" of you CV. Even if you haven't started writing abstract/manuscript, give whatever results you have a title and put it as "in preparation". I didn't submit my first abstract until Jan and first manuscript until march. But I had two manuscripts "in preparation" on my ERAS applciation. Make sure you run it through your PI though.

Another quick way to generate publication: write review articles. Ask your PI if s/he is asked to write a review article and offer to participate, especially if it's related to your research and you have to read about it anyway.

Now coming back to step 2. Although it is not as important, I would recommend that you take it BEFORE the match. I took it after the match -- it was painful.....totally ruined the high of my 4th year....

 

[stephew]

dont try so hard to come with a forumla for these t hings; people insticutally do that and its inappropraite. get more zen in your thinking. PDs will want to be assured that outside of your general excellence as a radiation oncologist, that there is nothing that concerns them with regard to your overal clinical abiliities (and interest, etc). Thus if you aced everything and bombed the step two it rasies a question potentially about your ward and patient care skills. but if nothing stands out to ring bells, the step two isnt a make or break situation generally.

 

[radonc]

i would take step 2 early for several reasons, mainly because you shouldnt want to take it late.

first, if you take step 2 early, you dont have to release it to programs. second, who wants to study for step 2 after the match? most people want to relax at that point...travel, spend time with family, complete mandatory rotations, etc. also, if by chance you do fail, you will want ample time to take it again and graduate on time.

there is no optimal time to take it...here is the usual timeline:

june start looking into apps
july-sept - do aways, radiation electives, start applying to programs (eras, statement, getting letters, etc)
oct - maybe good month to take the test?
nov-jan interviews!
feb - worry about the match, submit rank list
march - match
april-may/june finish up requirements, travel, prepare to move, etc.

 

[IRISH22]

first, if you take step 2 early, you dont have to release it to programs. second, who wants to study for step 2 after the match? most people want to relax at that point...travel, spend time with family, complete mandatory rotations, etc. also, if by chance you do fail, you will want ample time to take it again and graduate on time.

quote]


so let me get this straight: unlike step 1, your step 2 scores can be "held" from schools until a certain time? It seems that if you took the step in Oct, the reports would be back in a month or 2, and thus fair game at interviews.

I'm not worried about failing it (and I doubt anyone thinking rad onc is), Im concerned that if I dont do as well on step 2 (due to lack of motivation, time crunch, etc), it would reflect poorly and make me look like I "slacked off."

But if its true that you dont have to release your score, I agree with you: it makes much more sense to take it early and be done!

 

[napoleondynamite]

Hey Irish,

It is true that you can withold your scores and choose not to release them. However, what will you say when programs ask when you plan to take step 2? "Uh..I already took it and witheld my scores?" Also, I'm not sure about this, but it may show on your ERAS that you have witheld your scores (check on that..b/c it's a guess). Good luck! Larry.

 

[RadOncRudy]

Maybe someone who's been through the process can comment, but I think that if you take Step 2 before September you have to release your scores. Probably most don't have time to even take it before then, but I took them this year while I'm doing research and I'm pretty sure I'm required to release my scores this fall (thank god they're better than step 1!)

Anyone else heard this?

 

[stephew]

you cant withold scores.

 

[napoleondynamite]

you cant withold scores.

On the ERAS application there is a box you check if you would like to release your scores. You can choose to release the scores of the test(s) you have already taken (so if you have taken both step 1 and step 2 by the time you certify your ERAS, then BOTH would be released). If you have only taken step 1 and have not yet taken step 2, ERAS DOES give you the option of only releasing your step 1 score without automatically releasing your step 2 score to programs (if you want to release them at a later date, you just go into ERAS and check the box to release your scores..I know b/c I just did that yesterday so the program I matched at would be able to download my step 2 score).

 

[stephew]

things have changed since my day. also as an img i had no choice so i defer to you.