Step 3

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drPLUM

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Ok new PGY-1's...

Post what your Step 3 plans are; I'm curious what everyone is doing. For you more experienced guys post what advice you have regarding Step 3, both timing and preparation wise.
 
Well, seeing as I'm posting as a study break for AP/CP boards, may as well write about my last board experience...

Step 3. Har. Of all the standardized tests in my life, I took this one least seriously. I blew it off until half-way through my third year in path residency (and I did no sort of internship year, only had done a PSF before). I borrowed a couple review books from another resident who had taken it a year before me. I leafed through the books for a couple hours at night starting about five days before the test. This is different than how I approached the other Steps (Step I: 5 weeks of 12-hours-a-day studying, did very well; Step 2: 3 weeks of 3-4 hours at night studying, did very well). I took the test, feeling like I knew some of the material from my med school experience. The rest of the questions? I felt like I could have studied for months and not known them--they were taken straight from outpatient clinical practice. There was one question I remember distinctly: asking about approving a SC trait teenager for high school sports--do you approve for high impact/low intensity, or low intensity/low impact, or...sheesh.

Got my scores a few weeks later: wound up smack-dab in the middle of the bell curve (can't remember the actual score, as I think the only time I looked at it was opening the letter).

This is not an exaggeration--I studied no more than 10-12 hours for this test. However, I did practice the computerized case questions and worked every practice question that came with that disk.

If only AP/CP boards were that easy...I certainly have worked about 100x harder for path boards...with miles to go before I sleep.
 
Very reassuring AnnaPlastic. Good to hear considering that I continue to not think about taking Step 3 anytime soon. Just keep putting it off *sigh*
 
Taking it June 7-8, week before orientation.. have been studying in a very, very indifferent manner for about 2 months now, mainly doing questions out of Kaplan Qbook. It's hard to study when it's so frakkin beautiful outside!!
 
Any one apply online recently? I am wondering how long it really takes to get your permit. Even though I have been done for a month already, I dont graduate until June 10th. I don't think I'll be able to squeeze it in before residency. I had heard 2 weeks or so for the permit though, is this true?
 
AnnaLee said:
Any one apply online recently? I am wondering how long it really takes to get your permit. Even though I have been done for a month already, I dont graduate until June 10th. I don't think I'll be able to squeeze it in before residency. I had heard 2 weeks or so for the permit though, is this true?

That is holding me up too. Can't register until my actual diploma date in June. Then it takes time for processing and residency will have started.
 
AnnaLee said:
Any one apply online recently? I am wondering how long it really takes to get your permit. Even though I have been done for a month already, I dont graduate until June 10th. I don't think I'll be able to squeeze it in before residency. I had heard 2 weeks or so for the permit though, is this true?

I read in another forum that if you have completed all your medical school requirements and are lacking only the graduation ceremony, you can have your school generate a letter saying just that. You can use this to register for Step 3 without having to wait for actual graduation. As I finished requirements only a week before graduation, I didn't bother with this, but with your big gap it's worth a shot! I registered online and submitted the extra forms the week after Mother's Day -- I am waiting to see just how long it takes for the permit to come. I'll let you know!
 
I just took the step 3 (I'm a 1st year). I read through Crush 3 times and did some practice case simulations I found on line. I did well. I've heard it rumored that people make scores close to their Step 2 scores. It was right-on for me.
When you are "allowed" to take the exam varies from state to state. If you're antsy to take it now you can take it in another state- it's actually that simple.
 
AnnaLee said:
Any one apply online recently? I am wondering how long it really takes to get your permit. Even though I have been done for a month already, I dont graduate until June 10th. I don't think I'll be able to squeeze it in before residency. I had heard 2 weeks or so for the permit though, is this true?

I applied over 2 weeks ago and it doesn't seem as though I will be getting my permit any time soon. Apparently, they have an internal process for verifying degrees and since I applied so soon after my graduation, it will take longer. 🙄
 
miko2005 said:
I applied over 2 weeks ago and it doesn't seem as though I will be getting my permit any time soon. Apparently, they have an internal process for verifying degrees and since I applied so soon after my graduation, it will take longer. 🙄

Ouch. Same here. Can you tell us anything more you learned about this "internal process"? I'm about hitting the "ten business days" from when they received everything and supposedly should approve my application, but all the website says is "'registration incomplete, verifying degree."

It makes the motivation to study hard to come by. I'm trying to figure out just how much time to spend -- I don't want to waste too much of my last month of freedom doing this, but neither do I want to make too lazy an effort now and have to deal with it again later during residency. Well, this may be academic anyway if my permit doesn't come through soon!
 
I start out the pgy-1 year on 3 months surg path, so july/aug/sept won't be very good for studying clinical stuff. So, I'll end up taking Step 3 in late october or november.
 
Tappat said:
Ouch. Same here. Can you tell us anything more you learned about this "internal process"? I'm about hitting the "ten business days" from when they received everything and supposedly should approve my application, but all the website says is "'registration incomplete, verifying degree."

It makes the motivation to study hard to come by. I'm trying to figure out just how much time to spend -- I don't want to waste too much of my last month of freedom doing this, but neither do I want to make too lazy an effort now and have to deal with it again later during residency. Well, this may be academic anyway if my permit doesn't come through soon!

I frequently talk to myself, but I think this is the first time I've done it on the internet.

So, I spoke with both the FSMB (the people who do the boards) and my registrar's office this morning. Apparently, the individual schools have until June 30 to certify a list of graduates that is kept by the AAMC. The FSMB checks with the AAMC on a weekly basis for the graduation status of their Step 3 applicants. For example, my school says they plan to have the whole list of recent graduates (unfortunately they will not do students individually) certified by June 5. Then, sometime during the week after that the FSMB will be able to see that information and finish approval of my application. Then they will supposedly send me my scheduling permit in a somewhat timely fashion. In theory, that means the permit could arrive sometime before June 20 ... if I'm lucky. I'm hoping that all that certification and checking is done by computer, so that the list doesn't just get caught on some vacationing administrator's desk!

My registrar said this is the first year they've gotten requests from people like me to get this certification done earlier. The word is out about registering through Connecticut! I suppose my recommendation for people in subsequent years who got this thread after searching "Step 3" is to check out if a letter from your school saying you really are done with your requirements would work in lieu of AAMC graduation certification. If it does work (and I had done it), I would have my permit by now! As it is, I think I'll proceed with my half-hearted studying in hopes of squeezing the test in before starting residency. I don't start until July 3, so IF things go smoothly I might be able to still do it.
 
I asked my school if they would give me such a letter since I finished my requirements over a month ago, but they said this was impossible. They could not give me an explanation for why, however. To make matters worse, even though we graduate on July 10th, our diplomas will say July 15th. Aparently has to do with the last day of the quarter, or something else stupid. Oh well! I guess I just have to wait.
 
AnnaLee said:
I asked my school if they would give me such a letter since I finished my requirements over a month ago, but they said this was impossible. They could not give me an explanation for why, however. To make matters worse, even though we graduate on July 10th, our diplomas will say July 15th. Aparently has to do with the last day of the quarter, or something else stupid. Oh well! I guess I just have to wait.

That bites! The willingness of the registrar to write that letter must vary by school. The good thing is that now you can enjoy your remaining time off free of guilt!
 
Whew!

Long story short, I'm done with Step 3. Short story long, anything by Dickens. 👍
 
Aubrey said:
Whew!

Long story short, I'm done with Step 3. Short story long, anything by Dickens. 👍

How was it? Any tips?
 
AnnaLee said:
How was it? Any tips?

Like all the steps, it was more a test of endurance than anything else. I thought the questions asked were quite fair.. 95%+ very common clinical entities, lotsa questions about med side effects, surprisingly heavy on peds and OB. I was expecting lots more cardiology, there were perhaps 2 or 3 (!) ECGs to interpret on the whole test. Overall, not too terrible.
 
Aubrey said:
Like all the steps, it was more a test of endurance than anything else. I thought the questions asked were quite fair.. 95%+ very common clinical entities, lotsa questions about med side effects, surprisingly heavy on peds and OB. I was expecting lots more cardiology, there were perhaps 2 or 3 (!) ECGs to interpret on the whole test. Overall, not too terrible.

One more question for the recent Step III takers: How much pharmacology is there? One last time to learn that crap before it goes in the trash with calculus and other such once-learned-now-useless knowledge.
 
AnnaLee said:
One more question for the recent Step III takers: How much pharmacology is there? One last time to learn that crap before it goes in the trash with calculus and other such once-learned-now-useless knowledge.


LOTS of questions on med side effects. Tons. Not too heavy on drug interactions, except for the usual suspects (lithium, diuretics). Many questions like "which of these 5 drugs would you prescribe first for this pt?"
 
For the CCS cases, you have to know some drug types - especially for urgent treatments - like what to give someone with an MI, etc.

But I agree, mostly the questions were about side effects (like a question describing abnormal symptoms and lab values where the differential included a drug toxicity, such as lithium or digoxin). As always, pay attention to teratogens, and alternative drugs for patients with penicillin allergies. Also good to know which antibiotics are appropriate for certain situations. To my recollection, I was asked about statins, digoxin, lithium, and a few antibiotics.
 
Well, that was not fun. For future reference:

May 14: graduate, apply online
May 15-17: all supporting forms in to fsmb
wait, wait, wait ...
June 2: medical school finally certifies me
June 7: email saying I've been approved (through Connecticut)
June 9: permit is mailed from Texas
June 14: permit arrives in Boston, exam scheduled
June 21&22: Step 3 (could have taken it June 17&19 but didn't want a Saturday)

So for people wondering how long it takes for the permit to come ... it might have come within a couple of weeks of application but for the hang-up waiting for my school to certify me. This should only be a problem for people who just graduated. Also, my original scheduled test was for a week later than I wanted and an hour's drive away -- but fortunately there were cancellations, so I ended up getting the exact dates and location that I wanted. Just keep calling to check on cancellations. The permit tells you to go to the website to book, but you actually can't book Step 3 that way, you have to talk to them on the phone at 1-800-MED-EXAM. Cute.

My prep: First Aid and Kaplan QBank. The knowledge database from First Aid for this step isn't worth the paper it's printed on, unfortunately -- not nearly as useful as First Aid for the first two steps. The 100 cases in the back were useful though, so at least read through those or some similar source. QBank was also not as directly applicable for this step as it was for Step 2, but it was somewhat helpful. I couldn't use USMLEWorld because I have a Mac and didn't want to risk trying to outsmart them but failing.

Content of exam:
*Very heavy on outpatient stuff
*Lots of medication side effects (the big ones - know one major side effect for the most common psych drugs, a couple for the major cardiovascular drugs)
*Lots of questions in the format of: complaint or problem, big question stem with many possible causes for the problem, then you have to choose which one was most likely to have caused the complaint
*Multiple questions asking you to say which of the patient's risk factors for a particular disease is the most significant
*Good amount of OB questions -- really helps to have been pregnant for these
*Peds also showed up, especially neonatal problems and common ailments of the small child -- same thing, if you can arrange to have had your own small children by the time you take the test, these will seem much easier!
*Rashes -- I stink at these -- I guess my kids haven't had too many rashes (though there was a yeast diaper rash question -- regular diaper rash is solid red, yeast rash has red bumps)
*As mentioned previously, not very much cardiology, compared to how much it was emphasized in med school

The cases went by in a flash. Mostly they just cut off and I still wanted to do a bit more to manage the patient. I'm pretty sure I never managed to transfer them to the next appropriate setting before it told me I had five minutes left (the program can cut you off, even though you haven't nearly used your whole twenty minutes yet), and I couldn't figure out how to get back to the "change location" tab at the last five minutes if you're supposed to be able to do that. If it ended up being a surgical case, the case would pretty much end once you'd ordered the surgical consult and they said the patient would be scheduled for surgery. Definitely go through the cases on the sample CD to become familiar with the format.

Probably the people best prepared for this test are family practice residents. I found myself thinking back to my family practice, medicine sub-I, and ob/gyn rotations the most. So, for pathology residents, sooner is better! I'm not sure my studying really helped much this time. The questions seemed to get harder throughout the test, which I attributed to mental fatigue and to a rapidly deteriorating attitude, as as far as I've heard it's not adaptive. I could be wrong. I really hope I passed, because I certainly don't want to repeat the last couple of days. I did get out pretty early both days, which was nice, but still.
 
Tappat said:
Probably the people best prepared for this test are family practice residents. So, for pathology residents, sooner is better! I'm not sure my studying really helped much this time.


A-men!

I got my result yesterday and it says I passed.....literally!
Instead of pass, it should have said "Scraped through"... 🙂

Either way I dont care. I hope step 3 scores don't influence my application for next year. Not that my step 1 and 2 scores influenced it anyway this year when i applied, before i withdrew....

any thoughts?
 
Tappat said:
Well, that was not fun. For future reference:

May 14: graduate, apply online
May 15-17: all supporting forms in to fsmb
wait, wait, wait ...
June 2: medical school finally certifies me
June 7: email saying I've been approved (through Connecticut)
June 9: permit is mailed from Texas
June 14: permit arrives in Boston, exam scheduled
June 21&22: Step 3 (could have taken it June 17&19 but didn't want a Saturday)

So for people wondering how long it takes for the permit to come ... it might have come within a couple of weeks of application but for the hang-up waiting for my school to certify me. This should only be a problem for people who just graduated. Also, my original scheduled test was for a week later than I wanted and an hour's drive away -- but fortunately there were cancellations, so I ended up getting the exact dates and location that I wanted. Just keep calling to check on cancellations. The permit tells you to go to the website to book, but you actually can't book Step 3 that way, you have to talk to them on the phone at 1-800-MED-EXAM. Cute.

My prep: First Aid and Kaplan QBank. The knowledge database from First Aid for this step isn't worth the paper it's printed on, unfortunately -- not nearly as useful as First Aid for the first two steps. The 100 cases in the back were useful though, so at least read through those or some similar source. QBank was also not as directly applicable for this step as it was for Step 2, but it was somewhat helpful. I couldn't use USMLEWorld because I have a Mac and didn't want to risk trying to outsmart them but failing.

Content of exam:
*Very heavy on outpatient stuff
*Lots of medication side effects (the big ones - know one major side effect for the most common psych drugs, a couple for the major cardiovascular drugs)
*Lots of questions in the format of: complaint or problem, big question stem with many possible causes for the problem, then you have to choose which one was most likely to have caused the complaint
*Multiple questions asking you to say which of the patient's risk factors for a particular disease is the most significant
*Good amount of OB questions -- really helps to have been pregnant for these
*Peds also showed up, especially neonatal problems and common ailments of the small child -- same thing, if you can arrange to have had your own small children by the time you take the test, these will seem much easier!
*Rashes -- I stink at these -- I guess my kids haven't had too many rashes (though there was a yeast diaper rash question -- regular diaper rash is solid red, yeast rash has red bumps)
*As mentioned previously, not very much cardiology, compared to how much it was emphasized in med school

The cases went by in a flash. Mostly they just cut off and I still wanted to do a bit more to manage the patient. I'm pretty sure I never managed to transfer them to the next appropriate setting before it told me I had five minutes left (the program can cut you off, even though you haven't nearly used your whole twenty minutes yet), and I couldn't figure out how to get back to the "change location" tab at the last five minutes if you're supposed to be able to do that. If it ended up being a surgical case, the case would pretty much end once you'd ordered the surgical consult and they said the patient would be scheduled for surgery. Definitely go through the cases on the sample CD to become familiar with the format.

Probably the people best prepared for this test are family practice residents. I found myself thinking back to my family practice, medicine sub-I, and ob/gyn rotations the most. So, for pathology residents, sooner is better! I'm not sure my studying really helped much this time. The questions seemed to get harder throughout the test, which I attributed to mental fatigue and to a rapidly deteriorating attitude, as as far as I've heard it's not adaptive. I could be wrong. I really hope I passed, because I certainly don't want to repeat the last couple of days. I did get out pretty early both days, which was nice, but still.

That is a great summary!! I am finally done too and I really, really, really hope I passed. The CCS cases went by really quickly and I am not sure I did everything I had to do.
 
quant said:
A-men!

I got my result yesterday and it says I passed.....literally!
Instead of pass, it should have said "Scraped through"... 🙂

any thoughts?

Congrats quant, that's awesome news! 👍
 
quant said:
A-men!

I got my result yesterday and it says I passed.....literally!
Instead of pass, it should have said "Scraped through"... 🙂

Either way I dont care. I hope step 3 scores don't influence my application for next year. Not that my step 1 and 2 scores influenced it anyway this year when i applied, before i withdrew....

any thoughts?

Yes, congratulations on the pass. I really can't imagine your step 3 scores will influence your application ... just guessing here, but since a good share of the people applying won't even have them, it's obviously not a critical thing! They'll just be impressed that you've gotten it out of the way.
 
quant said:
A-men!

I got my result yesterday and it says I passed.....literally!
Instead of pass, it should have said "Scraped through"... 🙂

Congrats quant!!! :clap:

How are things going for you?

I am getting oriented to death. It's just stressing me out more because they're throwing all this stuff at us with no context.
 
beary said:
I am getting oriented to death. It's just stressing me out more because they're throwing all this stuff at us with no context.
Welcome to residency 🙂 The no-context thing never ends.

I drove over to the county hospital and spent 1 1/2 hours today being oriented because I happen to be scheduled to take surg path/autopsy/hemepath call this weekend (they normally have a more senior resident take the first weekend, but this isn't happening July 1 and 2 due to vacation requests).

The weekend could totally suck, or be a complete anti-climax: it's apparently extremely unlikely that I would actually encounter anything that would require me to go in, but I am SO not looking forward to dealing with autopsy consent issues, the location of flow cytometry and lymphoma work-up supplies as well as prosecting and dissecting dead kids less than 1 year old entirely on my own.

Enough derailing.
 
beary said:
Congrats quant!!! :clap:

How are things going for you?

I am getting oriented to death. It's just stressing me out more because they're throwing all this stuff at us with no context.

Yeah, I don't really understand it either, but I am not in charge. They act as though by telling you all this stuff it is somehow going to stick. No, it isn't. I wouldn't stress about it. Whatever rotation you are on things will be explained to you. And if they don't make sense, just ask someone. I am trying to orient one of the current first years to surg path over today and tomorrow - most people just get thrown right in without any context, and I think they should be prepared more so I am showing her.
 
beary said:
Congrats quant!!! :clap:

How are things going for you?

I am getting oriented to death. It's just stressing me out more because they're throwing all this stuff at us with no context.


Thanks Tappat and Beary....It is definitely a relief to get over with step 3, trust me!

Things are fine with me Beary. Am in the process of sending in a couple of papers. But in a more relaxed manner as you know....

Im sorry to hear that your orientation sucks...But one thing I know is the Bureaucratic guidelines never go waste. They always have a nasty habit of coming back and biting one's ass in the future....argh!
 
Did I mention that I found out I passed? Saturday, identical score to Step 2 CK. Spooky.
 
yaah said:
Yeah, I don't really understand it either, but I am not in charge. They act as though by telling you all this stuff it is somehow going to stick. No, it isn't. I wouldn't stress about it. Whatever rotation you are on things will be explained to you. And if they don't make sense, just ask someone.

Thanks yaah. 😀

I know this psycho 2 week long orientation was new this year and most definitely needs to be pared down, IMHO. We had some of the exact same talks during "path orientation" that we did during "house officer orientation." And most of house officer orientation was 100% useless for paths.

But I do need the paycheck so that's cool. 😎
 
Aubrey said:
Did I mention that I found out I passed? Saturday, identical score to Step 2 CK. Spooky.

Congrats Aubrey!! :clap:

That's great. I need to start thinking about taking the darn thing.
 
beary said:
And most of house officer orientation was 100% useless for paths.
That reminds me... last year we had this dumb talk about sleep deprivation during residency. Hellloooooooooo.... why the heck do you think I went into path?
 
deschutes said:
That reminds me... last year we had this dumb talk about sleep deprivation during residency. Hellloooooooooo.... why the heck do you think I went into path?

We had that too - it's part of the crap that programs have to do to "prove" to regulators that they are humane and teaching effectively. They hold that session for us, then they can document to the ACGME that they did it.

That being said though, I am under the assumption that on many of my rotations I work longer hours than many clinical people. I, however, am not on call q4.
 
yaah said:
We had that too - it's part of the crap that programs have to do to "prove" to regulators that they are humane and teaching effectively. They hold that session for us, then they can document to the ACGME that they did it.

That being said though, I am under the assumption that on many of my rotations I work longer hours than many clinical people. I, however, am not on call q4.
Yup we got the whole schpeel too. It's nice to have call limited to beeper home call and regular hours! 👍
 
Aubrey said:
Did I mention that I found out I passed? Saturday, identical score to Step 2 CK. Spooky.

I also just found out I passed ... however, thirty percentile points lower than my Step 2. Well ... doesn't matter now! I think medical school really is officially over now.
 
Tappat said:
I also just found out I passed ... however, thirty percentile points lower than my Step 2. Well ... doesn't matter now! I think medical school really is officially over now.


Go, you! 😎
 
Yea, I passed! Took five weeks to get the scores though. Everyone who took it before me told me it would take exactly three weeks. I was convinced they were rechecking my score because I failed. I think it just takes longer if you take it in June/July. At any rate, goodbye to the USMLEs! (Now watch them add a Step 3 CS where you have to intubate cats or something...)
 
Took step 3 June 21, 22. Got my score on Saturday - very similar to my Step 1 and Step 2 score. I studied for about 2 weeks before starting intern year. Used my step 2 book (Rx for the Boards), did most of the usmle world questions and cases. My advice, just get it over with!
 
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