I was wondering what a competetive score for GS is? also can someone tell me how many programs is appropriate to apply to if you are in the 215-220 range?
Thanks...
The Ectopic One!
Thanks...
The Ectopic One!
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Step I and applying...
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EctopicFetus said:
That should be more than adequate for GS. Besides most surgeons at my school have said there is nothing better than glowing LOR's. Despite the current rash of fear spreading across these boards about GS becoming as difficult to get into as Ortho, ENT, etc it isnt and porbably never will be. What will be next FP becoming the 285 AOA as requirements to get in specialty. I meen all specialties cant become competitive since the number of med school applicants continues to decline. A lot of people attracted by the 80 hr work week are going to be in for a rude awakening. Sorry to rant on so.
EctopicFetus said:
I scored a 226 and plan to apply to 29 programs. They run the entire spectrum from some of the more competitive to other less competitive programs. Just go for what you know! Hope you do well
Can someone tell me what the average Step I was for those who applied? or how about people who are applying to gen Surg post their Step I and/or II score? Please??
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Blade28
The average Step 1 score from last year? Or for all G Surg applicants?
I agree with jmattwilson...i think the attrition rate will rise over the next few years as more people hop into GS b/c o' the 80hr/wk rule....then reality check
it will be interesting to see how things shake out over the next 2-3yrs.
it will be interesting to see how things shake out over the next 2-3yrs.
...i think avg number of applications/gs applicant was 20 in the last few years.
ophtho matriculated step 1 avg was around 224-226 a year or two ago....the word on the street is that ophtho is more competitive than gs so i'm sure gs step 1 avg is less...prob >5pts less
ophtho matriculated step 1 avg was around 224-226 a year or two ago....the word on the street is that ophtho is more competitive than gs so i'm sure gs step 1 avg is less...prob >5pts less
friendly, So are you saying that the average of G Surg is 5 pts below the mean? So it is a 212? or you meant 5 pts below the 224-226? which would make it 220..
If anyone knows can you tell me the Step I average for G Surg and Ortho if anyone knows? I am more curious about G Surg.
Please advise..
Ectopic
If anyone knows can you tell me the Step I average for G Surg and Ortho if anyone knows? I am more curious about G Surg.
Please advise..
Ectopic
Although general surgery and orthopedics don't publish average Step I score, the surgical specialties in the San Francisco Match do. For 2004 the averages have been:
2004 ENT Match
Avg. Step 1 matched : 237
Avg. Step 1 unmatched : 222
AOA matched: 35%
2004 Ophthalmology Match
Avg. Step 1 matched 228
Avg. Step 1 unmatched 218
2004 Neurosurgery Match
Avg. Step 1 Matched 235
Avg. Step 1 Unmatched 213
AOA 19%
PhD 10%
I would guess that the average for general surgery would be less than these 3. There is info for the plastics match floating around too, but I don't have that one handy.
2004 ENT Match
Avg. Step 1 matched : 237
Avg. Step 1 unmatched : 222
AOA matched: 35%
2004 Ophthalmology Match
Avg. Step 1 matched 228
Avg. Step 1 unmatched 218
2004 Neurosurgery Match
Avg. Step 1 Matched 235
Avg. Step 1 Unmatched 213
AOA 19%
PhD 10%
I would guess that the average for general surgery would be less than these 3. There is info for the plastics match floating around too, but I don't have that one handy.
B
Blade28
I think friendlyfriend meant the average score was 5 points below 224-226.
mpp said:
wondering if those numbers had a link? Thanks..
B
Blade28
EctopicFetus said:
Just to check, you're not currently an MSIV applying for residency, right?
No I am an MSIII.. Why?
B
Blade28
Ah, just making sure, since it sounded like you hadn't even chosen which programs to apply to, or anything, yet. Wanted to make sure you weren't an MSIV that was WAY behind in the game. 😉
Blade thanks for looking out for me..Much appreciation..
B
Blade28
No prob, anytime.
I was in your exact position last year, as a third-year wanting to go into G Surg...less than a 99 on Step 1 ( 🙂 ), not-all-honors-in-all-clinical-rotations, etc. Took Step 2 early this year, applied to a ton of programs two weeks ago.
I was in your exact position last year, as a third-year wanting to go into G Surg...less than a 99 on Step 1 ( 🙂 ), not-all-honors-in-all-clinical-rotations, etc. Took Step 2 early this year, applied to a ton of programs two weeks ago.
EctopicFetus said:
No link, but ask any of the fourth years at your school that are applying for these programs...they likely have this information or will get it after the San Francisco Match in January. These programs provide this information to all that match.
Count me in as another who is applying for this year's match with sub-standard board scores. Sucks, this goddamn nervousness/anticipation/ confusion. I am just applying to a sh*tload of programs and hoping for the best.
Anyone know any solid community programs on the northeast and southern regions? Thanks!
Anyone know any solid community programs on the northeast and southern regions? Thanks!
mpp said:
A neurosurgery residency after a MD/PhD........and I've heard many of the academics do a fellowship afterwards....
That, my friends, is a dedication to education.
😀
BUMP, also since we are in the middle of the process can people state their Step I's # applied # accepted, # Rejects and # waiting to hear from.
zealous said:
I wouldn't worry too much... 221 is above the mean! MOST people did worse than you! If you REALLY feel like surgery is right for you, go for it! My Step 1 score is lower than that, and I have no research publications. I have 5 interviews already, and the Dean's letter isn't even out yet. Just be realistic about where you apply, and you should be fine. 🙂
Gen Surg is definitely not nearly as competitive as neurosurg, ophtho, ENT. If you are a US grad with a step 1 of 221, you should do fine. If you want to go to a top 10 program, you'll see the competition. If you're a foreign grad, it's a different game.
my stats:
step 1: 205
step 2: 235
applied to 20 solid programs (sent my app 2 weeks ago)
7 interviews
no rejections
my stats:
step 1: 205
step 2: 235
applied to 20 solid programs (sent my app 2 weeks ago)
7 interviews
no rejections
zealous said:
First, don't post a score of 221 and call it cruddy. There may be people that read this group that did worse than you and you might be insulting them by doing that. Sorry, i usually don't complain or try to "parent", but just be careful about how you phrase things (especially in public forums)
Second, take a deep breath and relax. Step back and realize that you did well on step 1, you have a score that you can be proud of. Sure, it isn't the best score possible, but you took an exam that takes about 8 hours to complete and then did well on it. Both of those are significant accomplishments.
Third, by all means you can do surgery. No matter what your step 1 score was (even if just one point above passing), if surgery is your passion, you will get into a residency. Now, i can't speak for other residencies (i.e. medicine or the like) but as a surgical resident, i can say that we tend to care more about who you are than how well you can take a test. We understand that not everyone wants to do research and more importantly, unless you are really committed to a research project, just how much do you think you could accomplish in a lab while in medical school? Sure, some do a tremendous amount and research can look good on an application, but it isn't a make or break you type thing. As far as extracurriculars go, after going through the interview process, most wanted to see you get involved in something. This doesn't have to be necessarily school related. Furthermore, it isn't too late to do something, so don't fret just yet!
When i was a third year student, i too was worried about the possibility of matching. I thought that my scores weren't good enough. I knew that my first two years were pretty good and i was proud of how well i did. I worked hard my third year and did even better. I wanted to make up for what i too considered to be a bad board score. When it came time to apply, i got my fair share of interviews - sure, there were some rejections, but who doesn't get rejected? Furthermore, i even cancelled several interviews because there comes a point when you get sick and tired of travelling and interviewing. After constant worrying for two years about whether or not i would match, turns out i had nothing to worry about. Nor will you. I guess what i am trying to say is please, don't worry that much about it. Just be confident and have fun. Don't despair this early - i mean, you still have to get through third year and you should be trying to enjoy it. trust me. Some of the interviewers don't even care about what is on your resume. case in point, one of my favorite interviews lasted nearly an hour - all we really discussed was beer and hip-hop music. Sure, we got the formalities out of the way, but after that, we just simply talked. You will hear this again, but in surgery, we have to spend 5 years with our fellow residents. Often times, i spend more time with them than with my own wife. You can be certain that how well we (being the residency program) get along with you is an important factor when deciding who to take for a residency spot.
For all the rest that will be interviewing soon (or, perhaps already) - have fun. this is a great time. keep in mind that no one else will speak up on your behalf (besides your LORs) so blow your own horn at times. Be confident and be proud. Hell, you made it through med school!
221 crudy?
Completely agree this is out of line. A 221 isnt bad, especially not for surgery. I cant understand why so many people think if they dont score > 230 their only option is FP. You do realize that you probably did better than 60% of all applicants on that test. Thus 60% of the entire US class of 05 will be entering FP along with you. Sorry man but I just dont see that happening from here. I have a friend who is applying to ortho with that same score and already has 12 interviews scheduled. I am sorry to have raved about this I just cant understand all the fuss over step 1 scores.
Completely agree this is out of line. A 221 isnt bad, especially not for surgery. I cant understand why so many people think if they dont score > 230 their only option is FP. You do realize that you probably did better than 60% of all applicants on that test. Thus 60% of the entire US class of 05 will be entering FP along with you. Sorry man but I just dont see that happening from here. I have a friend who is applying to ortho with that same score and already has 12 interviews scheduled. I am sorry to have raved about this I just cant understand all the fuss over step 1 scores.
Dr Reed,
I am curious with such a strong score why apply to 74 programs?
Also what do you guys think are the most important factors for getting interviews and matching successfully. Please assist.
Ectopic
I am curious with such a strong score why apply to 74 programs?
Also what do you guys think are the most important factors for getting interviews and matching successfully. Please assist.
Ectopic
EctopicFetus said:
Well, Im IMG and I had heard so many different opinions on how hard it would be to match so I just wanted to be as safe as possible..
I guess that for non US grads, board scores are crucial since there are no other ways to objectively value the applicant. However, for a US grad, LOR's should be at least as important...just my speculations..
are you in boston for an away rotation?
Blade28 said:
B
Blade28
passlineandodds said:
I was...got back from Boston about a week ago. Was there for a month.
how was it? who did you work with attending wise?
Blade28 said:
YOU KNOW SOME PEOPLE KNOW HOW TO INSULT OTHERS WITH THEIR SCORES AND GRADES.passlineandodds said:
WHAT THY HECK IS SOMEONE COMPLAINING WITH A SCORE OF 221 FOR. SHOULD BE IN MY SHOES WITH 190'S AND F GRADE IN MEDICINE BUT STILL APPLYING FOR G- SURG. STILL I AM NOT CRYING!!
Whoa!! I had no idea that people would be offended by me writing that my score of 221 was cruddy. I didn't write that to offend anyone. I was just looking for some response as to whether 221 was good enough or not for surgery!! The reason why I say it's cruddy is because it sure feels cruddy when fp, medicine interns ask me what my score was on Step I, I tell them, and they look at me like "oops" or "you're dumb" and then say..."Well, you can always take your Step II before you apply and if you do well on Step II then you can probably still do surgery".. I mean come on, if you've ever had this experience several times then you'd begin thinking your score is cruddy too. Also, I had a fellow MSIII tell an ENT resident that she got a 135, she got told it "wasn't a great score", and then later tell me "man, it sucks that I did so bad on Step I." So, why he discrepancy between what I'm hearing and what everyone on this thread is saying??
Someone is invariably going to always be offended by what is said. Don't sweat it. Just continue to work hard and you'll be fine. And by the way...did anyone else cringe when that guy said he Flunked IM????
zealous said:
zealous,
One lesson that you will learn in time (as you get more involved in patient care) is the importance of choosing the appropriate word to convey meaning. Perhaps you were personally disappointed in what would otherwise be considered a good score, but those reasons are your own.
First, you should have no difficulty obtaining general surgery interviews with that score. I don't know the average score for your year, but i would imagine that 221 is above the mean or at least very close (traditionally). What you do with that interview is entirely in your hands.
Second, don't worry about people saying that your score was bad. Simply put, it wasn't. It sure isn't the greatest, but why would you want a 260 or so anyways? Your score is just fine and you should be happy with it - so congratulations!
hope this helps some.
One lesson that you will learn in time (as you get more involved in patient care) is the importance of choosing the appropriate word to convey meaning. Perhaps you were personally disappointed in what would otherwise be considered a good score, but those reasons are your own.
First, you should have no difficulty obtaining general surgery interviews with that score. I don't know the average score for your year, but i would imagine that 221 is above the mean or at least very close (traditionally). What you do with that interview is entirely in your hands.
Second, don't worry about people saying that your score was bad. Simply put, it wasn't. It sure isn't the greatest, but why would you want a 260 or so anyways? Your score is just fine and you should be happy with it - so congratulations!
hope this helps some.
zealous said:
Ok forgiven. First off never listen to that bunch of dorks. they are just angry they are sitting there waiting on a sodium value, or ruminating on that creatanine, etc. A 221 is good to go. I am very close to that neighborhood and I have had invites from 19/25 programs thus far and several of them are at the better academic progrmas.
