Step scores for those applying to top programs

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drmistga

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Ok well I figure by this point in our careers we are mature enough to post our "stats" without everyone freaking out and already remember anyone reading this that sdn is extremely skewed as far as leaving out the average to lower programs but tends to have lots of applicants at the top programs-I was just curious as the NRMP stats from last year was avj step for psych was 210. Second lowest I believe or third but anyway.

I myself have 220's on both 1 and 2 and to be honest I thought those were solid for psych but esp on this board and getting rejections from lots of places I thought I would atleast interview at, it got me wondering what you top psych applicants have as far as step scores?

Any of the upper programs or anything like that you applied to just post the score-thanks!

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Ok well I figure by this point in our careers we are mature enough to post our "stats" without everyone freaking out and already remember anyone reading this that sdn is extremely skewed as far as leaving out the average to lower programs but tends to have lots of applicants at the top programs-I was just curious as the NRMP stats from last year was avj step for psych was 210. Second lowest I believe or third but anyway.

I myself have 220's on both 1 and 2 and to be honest I thought those were solid for psych but esp on this board and getting rejections from lots of places I thought I would atleast interview at, it got me wondering what you top psych applicants have as far as step scores?

Any of the upper programs or anything like that you applied to just post the score-thanks!

Who's given you no love with double 220's? That's some bull$hit if you ask me. What are they looking for.

Just have step 1 under my belt at the moment - 236. I dream (if my scores and wife permit) of a four year stint at P&S. Have I been closed out of that program?

Judd
 
One of the programs I am interested in has a 220 minimum (MUSC), but I think that is pretty rare. I was under the impression that most psych programs did not have a "cut-off."

The PD for the Anesthesia residency at my school told us that they have a 220 cut-off. He said they have to weed out some apps somehow because there are just too many. He also said that one year they decided to make the cut-off 230. They cut way down on the number of applications to go through, but in the end they were not as happy with the residents they ended up with, so they went back to 220.

I know that doesn't have anything to do with psych, but I thought it was interesting that they weren't happy with the 230 cut-off. It just goes to show that higher scores don't equal better residents. I got the impression that the interview would be more important than board scores. If you have good scores, are not below some sort of cut-off, and still aren't getting an interview, I would wonder if your personal statement or LORs are not strong enough. Also, I heard that doing an away rotation at the program you are interested in can pretty much guarantee you an interview.
 
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Well Idid not apply to a huge number and did get some great interviews and I guess I was not surprised but did not get invites to the top schools-ucsf, ucla (did not apply to any of the other ucla associated programs) and stanford. I guess cali is tough in general but I thought I may get an interview at UCLA but I guess they get many apps! I am happy with what I got and my rank list but I was just more curious as it did surprise me since I think the avj board scores for gen surgery last year was right around 220-and that is way more compt than psych!
 
Who's given you no love with double 220's? That's some bull$hit if you ask me. What are they looking for.

Just have step 1 under my belt at the moment - 236. I dream (if my scores and wife permit) of a four year stint at P&S. Have I been closed out of that program?

Judd

236 will do just fine wherever you want to apply. For some programs, 220 ends up being the low end of the scale, not because they're looking at board scores in particular, but because of the OCPD types that tend to fare well on the boards.
 
i61164, I have scores far below 220 with 202/200 and already interviewed at MUSC. Not sure where you got the cut-off thing from...Also got interviews at Yale, Penn, Hopkins, Brown, Pitt, Mich with those mind-blowing, death-defying, super-dupper scores....:laugh: (yeah, I know they're not the best--I suck at standardized exams--but I still got some interviews at so-called top-programs...)
 
It's all about the whole package, not just your scores. Oh, FYI, I read the MUSC website, and it looked a bit vague, I don't know if its IMGs that need to have 220s on STEP 1 and 2, or AMGs as well.

Had a little problem with my step 2 scores:
Step 1: 209
Step 2CK (#1): 170
Step 2CK (#2): 203

My PhD certainly helped shore up my crappy scores, along with my extracurriculars, but got interviews at the following programs, so it's not all about the USMLE:

Columbia
Yale
UCLA-NPI
Pitt
UMich
Brown

That being said, and not a native Californian I got bounced from the following programs too:

Stanford
MGH
UCSF

Good luck on getting number 1 on your ROL everybody, once you figure out what that is!!!!
 
Oh, FYI, I read the MUSC website, and it looked a bit vague, I don't know if its IMGs that need to have 220s on STEP 1 and 2, or AMGs as well.

Not sure about the IMGs, but I can tell you that it's not meant for AMG's (not sure that makes it any better)....UNLESS they made a mistake and the second 2 in my 202 got switched with the O to make a 220...That would be too funny if they had me come down and realized too late that I didn't make the cut-off; but didn't have the heart to tell me and let me interview anyway so as not to hurt my feelings!!!! :laugh:

Hey, the trip to Charleston was worth it! What a great city!
 
I'm in the low 240s on step 1 but don't apply until next year. Assuming my grades, evals, research, and LORs are all good, what do you think my chances are at some of the most competitive programs?
 
Not sure about the IMGs, but I can tell you that it's not meant for AMG's (not sure that makes it any better)....UNLESS they made a mistake and the second 2 in my 202 got switched with the O to make a 220...That would be too funny if they had me come down and realized too late that I didn't make the cut-off; but didn't have the heart to tell me and let me interview anyway so as not to hurt my feelings!!!! :laugh:

Hey, the trip to Charleston was worth it! What a great city!

Maybe it was just for IMG's. I don't remember which website I was on, but it was a link posted here by one of the IMG's. It had a list of all the programs and showed any cut-offs. MUSC was one of the few that had a cut-off. Most required only that you pass. I think some even said as long as you pass on your third attempt they would consider you.

Anyway, I'm glad to hear they don't really have a cut-off for AMGs. How did you like the program? My wife really wants to live at the beach (in the South East) so it's really the most appealing location for us.
 
Anyway, I'm glad to hear they don't really have a cut-off for AMGs. How did you like the program? My wife really wants to live at the beach (in the South East) so it's really the most appealing location for us.

The program is very strong. One of the best parts is that I found the residents to be very energetic and friendly. They have a lot of say in how the program is run and how their rank list is put together. It seems like the call can be a little busy during the first year, but the call drops significantly after that....I will do my best to write more about the program on the Interview Feedback Thread in a week or two. If you don't see anything from me, feel free to PM and I'll try to write more. But, overall, I wouldn't very much recommend applying to the program, especially if you want to live near the beach. :D
 
I'm in the low 240s on step 1 but don't apply until next year. Assuming my grades, evals, research, and LORs are all good, what do you think my chances are at some of the most competitive programs?

You can help answer part of your own question by reading the posts on the same thread by myself and Zen...unless you don't think some of the programs we listed to be in the group you consider "some of the most competitive programs."
 
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It's all about the whole package, not just your scores. Oh, FYI, I read the MUSC website, and it looked a bit vague, I don't know if its IMGs that need to have 220s on STEP 1 and 2, or AMGs as well.

Had a little problem with my step 2 scores:
Step 1: 209
Step 2CK (#1): 170
Step 2CK (#2): 203

My PhD certainly helped shore up my crappy scores, along with my extracurriculars, but got interviews at the following programs, so it's not all about the USMLE:

Columbia
Yale
UCLA-NPI
Pitt
UMich
Brown

That being said, and not a native Californian I got bounced from the following programs too:

Stanford
MGH
UCSF

Good luck on getting number 1 on your ROL everybody, once you figure out what that is!!!!

Well you are obviously an exception-another thing I have seen on sdn for years-what is it with sdn-I remember the "I had a friend who got into harvard med with a 25 mcat so it can be done" blah blah-quite frankly you must have had a few huge things on your apps that really stood out because what kind of program in any field would take someone who flunked step 2 on their first go-most of the people I know who took it did not study an ounce and scored as well as step 1 or better-I do not think you are the typical case where a 202 and a 170 with repeat on step 2 would get interviews at top places-I am trying to figure out the NORMAL type applicants scores who has not cured cancer or bipolar disease in this case.
 
Well you are obviously an exception-another thing I have seen on sdn for years-what is it with sdn-I remember the "I had a friend who got into harvard med with a 25 mcat so it can be done" blah blah-quite frankly you must have had a few huge things on your apps that really stood out because what kind of program in any field would take someone who flunked step 2 on their first go-most of the people I know who took it did not study an ounce and scored as well as step 1 or better-I do not think you are the typical case where a 202 and a 170 with repeat on step 2 would get interviews at top places-I am trying to figure out the NORMAL type applicants scores who has not cured cancer or bipolar disease in this case.

Hahah. What do you expect people to tell you besides their own personal experience? Take it or leave it. There's no need to insult people. You yourself admit that SDN is skewed, so your angry outburst is sort of ironic.
 
Well you are obviously an exception-another thing I have seen on sdn for years-what is it with sdn-I remember the "I had a friend who got into harvard med with a 25 mcat so it can be done" blah blah-quite frankly you must have had a few huge things on your apps that really stood out because what kind of program in any field would take someone who flunked step 2 on their first go-most of the people I know who took it did not study an ounce and scored as well as step 1 or better-I do not think you are the typical case where a 202 and a 170 with repeat on step 2 would get interviews at top places-I am trying to figure out the NORMAL type applicants scores who has not cured cancer or bipolar disease in this case.

I got the same interviews with a 202 and 200....With the no PhD, no publications...I do have research experience with a somewhat "famous" researcher in anxiety, but didn't get a publication out of it. And have been president of some cool psych-related clubs...but otherwise, i'm pretty average, if not below average if you judge an applicant by their board scores. Besides, what difference does it make? As you said, some of the best programs are not at "competitive" institutions.
 
Well you are obviously an exception-another thing I have seen on sdn for years-what is it with sdn-I remember the "I had a friend who got into harvard med with a 25 mcat so it can be done" blah blah-quite frankly you must have had a few huge things on your apps that really stood out because what kind of program in any field would take someone who flunked step 2 on their first go-most of the people I know who took it did not study an ounce and scored as well as step 1 or better-I do not think you are the typical case where a 202 and a 170 with repeat on step 2 would get interviews at top places-I am trying to figure out the NORMAL type applicants scores who has not cured cancer or bipolar disease in this case.

Dude, he wasn't telling a "My friend story." He got interviews at good programs and posted his scores... just like you asked. He also noted that the PhD helped round out his application. Seemed like a helpful post to me.

Maybe it wasn't intended to be, but your reply came across as rude... dare I say, even bitter that this "exception" got interviews at "top programs" with his board scores.

Anyways, why ask a question if you don't want to accept people's answers?
 
I was not trying to be rude-instead I made this post for the 99percent of sdn that are lurkers and watching psych threads interested in psych and probably getting deterred reading posts thinking it is impossible to get into psych or maybe they are too cocky and do not realize how competitive some places are-all I was saying is that 9 out of 10 times somebody that fails step 2 their first go and then gets only a 202 or something is not going to be intervieing at that many top 10 places-so how useful is that post if it is an anomly. We have no way of knowing what else a person like that has in their app that helped them so what good is it to post a low step 1 score and then get the hopes of someone who has that same score but is lacking that "special something" that we will never quiteknow-nothing.

The point was to get the typical person interviewing at top schools to post their numbers-there is no way that the avj scores for these programs, represented by sdn members is in the low 200s-seriously guys. And no offense to the poster-I am thrilled for him-I just do not want to skew things for readers-and there are LOTs of people that read this site and depend on it for decisions-sadly as that may be.
 
I'm in the low 240s on step 1 but don't apply until next year. Assuming my grades, evals, research, and LORs are all good, what do you think my chances are at some of the most competitive programs?

I don't want to be rude, but if you've read some of the other post and some of the scores that other applicants have received, what do you think your chances are... I mean common.lol...
 
236 on Step 1 (235 on Step 2 but I got this score after getting all the invites back, so apparently it wasn't a factor in getting invites). Also in AOA, so I don't know how much that played a part in this. I got invites from all the programs I applied to, including Columbia, MGH/McLean, NYU, UCSF, UCLA-NPI, etc. So I think the score was evidently quite adequate for psychiatry.
 
Scores are definitely not going to make or break you in psychiatry the way they might in something like radiology where your people skills are less stressed. If you score above average in step 1 that will most likely put you in the running at all programs. But I don't think outstanding scores will guarantee you anything either.

Scores on step 1 are so irrelevant to how you'll be as a psychiatrist and every program director knows this. The only caveat to that is that I do think that if you fail your boards especially step 1 it will hurt you at some places. And as psychiatry continues to become more competitive it may increase the need for objectively screening applicants in some way without having to thoroughly review the application, so cutoffs may begin being implemented more.

I still think other things are more important in the application, especially clinical grades, letters or rec, deans letter, interviews. It still is a buyers market but I think the top programs are looking for strong doctors in 3 dimensions more than they are for doctors that are strong on paper (2 dimensions) or on standardized tests. They just don't want residents failing step 3 or the specialty boards which reflects poorly on them.
 
i am an IMG and think i was shut out of some progs because my step 2 was below 80. otherwise i was strong, atleast strong enuff to get 48 invites, some to top programs. i recommend taking the NBME b4 taking the usmle and not taking the usmle till u know for sure u can get atleast 80 (or even 200.) if u have multiple attempts then take step 3 to neutralize ur attempts.
 
Scores on step 1 are so irrelevant to how you'll be as a psychiatrist and every program director knows this.

I failed both step 1 and step 2ck once each (for various reasons) and repassed both on the second attempt, and I still received interviews at every place I applied except for UPenn. I had a mix of Good and Excellents in my 3rd year rotations, and scores of 75-85 on shelf exams.

I know most of the people who post here are friggin' geniuses, but it just goes to show that it isn't always about the numbers.
 
i am an IMG and think i was shut out of some progs because my step 2 was below 80. otherwise i was strong, atleast strong enuff to get 48 invites, some to top programs. i recommend taking the NBME b4 taking the usmle and not taking the usmle till u know for sure u can get atleast 80 (or even 200.) if u have multiple attempts then take step 3 to neutralize ur attempts.

did you get interviews to the programs in michigan? Thanks a ton
 
...I still think other things are more important in the application, especially clinical grades, letters or rec, deans letter, interviews. It still is a buyers market but I think the top programs are looking for strong doctors in 3 dimensions more than they are for doctors that are strong on paper (2 dimensions) or on standardized tests. They just don't want residents failing step 3 or the specialty boards which reflects poorly on them.

This really is the main point--just as an MCAT score is a predictor of med school GPA, so are your USMLE scores a predictor of how likely you are to pass Step 3, obtain your license and become board-certified. It's painful to watch residents fail step 3 2 or 3 times--especially because by this time we KNOW that they're good doctors! In my state (and several others) three failures excludes you from being licensed in the state. We would just as soon avoid that, and take residents that we know are going to be able to launch their careers successfully.
 
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