Stereotype about small labs.....??

[Zumab]

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I am thinking of looking for labs at my university.
I've heard a few of my friends say this... If an old professor/PI who has been at the university for a long time is running a small lab, that it's a bad sign (like they are not getting funding etc) Is that true?
Sure it would be nice if the lab was big is the group size always indicative of the success of the research there?

 

[SN12357]

I am thinking of looking for labs at my university.
I've heard a few of my friends say this... If an old professor/PI who has been at the university for a long time is running a small lab, that it's a bad sign (like they are not getting funding etc) Is that true?
Sure it would be nice if the lab was big is the group size always indicative of the success of the research there?

The size of a lab is often a sign of the success of a PI, but it is not necessarily indicative of the success an undergrad will have there. Easy to get lost in the bustle of a busy lab.

It's true that an old (tenured, possibly chaired) PI running a small group when he/she once had a much bigger one is probably in the twilight of their career and winding things down. That doesn't mean that their lab is necessarily a bad place to be.

It's really hard to tell how good a lab will be from the outside. Try and figure out if the lab publishes regularly/recently, and if there are undergrads on their papers. That's as good an external sign as you can find.

 

[BurberryDoc]

Big lab with multiple post-docs means less competition for names on a paper, but as mentioned above, it can be easy to get lost amidst the chaos of a large (N.B. busy) lab.

 

[Dandine]

The size of a lab is often a sign of the success of a PI, but it is not necessarily indicative of the success an undergrad will have there. Easy to get lost in the bustle of a busy lab.

It's true that an old (tenured, possibly chaired) PI running a small group when he/she once had a much bigger one is probably in the twilight of their career and winding things down. That doesn't mean that their lab is necessarily a bad place to be.

It's really hard to tell how good a lab will be from the outside. Try and figure out if the lab publishes regularly/recently, and if there are undergrads on their papers. That's as good an external sign as you can find.

This is going to sound like a silly question, but what exactly defines a "small lab" versus "big lab"? Does this refer to the number of facilities or how many people are working there? I'm kind of curious because I suppose technically I would be in a "small lab" in terms of the number of people in the lab and smaller location, but there are tons of projects going on.

On second thought, it could just be that I haven't actually met everyone there yet...

 

[SN12357]

This is going to sound like a silly question, but what exactly defines a "small lab" versus "big lab"? Does this refer to the number of facilities or how many people are working there? I'm kind of curious because I suppose technically I would be in a "small lab" in terms of the number of people in the lab and smaller location, but there are tons of projects going on.

On second thought, it could just be that I haven't actually met everyone there yet...

It generally means people, because people are almost always your rate-limiting factor in research and grant money is what pays people's salaries. More grants = more people = bigger lab. Bigger facilities too, in all likelihood, but the number of people are what is referred to as 'big lab' vs. 'small lab'. Labs are hierarchies with the PI at the top, often dependent on the PI for their funding.

The size of the lab or research group varies from discipline to discipline so I don't know if there is an absolute measure of what constitutes small vs. big. It's relative.

 

[Aerus]

Big lab with multiple post-docs means less competition for names on a paper,

Why is this so? I'm not questioning your statement's validity but it sounds counter-intuitive to me.

 

[BurberryDoc]

Why is this so? I'm not questioning your statement's validity but it sounds counter-intuitive to me.

Post-docs usually are working in their own projects under the PI - unless the postdocs are collaborating on the same question, it gives you more opportunities to get linked up to a project for co-authorship (PI/post-doc/student versus PI/post-doc/post-doc)

 

[Mr Avante]

I am thinking of looking for labs at my university.
I've heard a few of my friends say this... If an old professor/PI who has been at the university for a long time is running a small lab, that it's a bad sign (like they are not getting funding etc) Is that true?
Sure it would be nice if the lab was big is the group size always indicative of the success of the research there?

One of the local universities' lab just got funded this block for $1M; straight from NIH 🙄
The 3 people running the lab are the most active cadre I have reviewed.

 

[13132]

I am thinking of looking for labs at my university.
I've heard a few of my friends say this... If an old professor/PI who has been at the university for a long time is running a small lab, that it's a bad sign (like they are not getting funding etc) Is that true?
Sure it would be nice if the lab was big is the group size always indicative of the success of the research there?

I am in a big lab (1 post doc, 3 undergrads, and 8 grad students) and it is awesome because we have tons of resources and varied work occurring. We also publish... a lot.

However, I had a friend in a small lab (one grad student and one undergrad) who worked one on one with the PI every day to put out a paper.

Depends on what type of experience you think will be most valuable or the situation you think you will thrive in.

 

[mcloaf]

Some successful PIs prefer running a smaller lab so they know what's going on and can have their hands in all the projects. It doesn't necessarily mean that they aren't productive.

 

[CarlosDanger]

Size of the lab doesn't necessarily mean anything. As an undergrad, the most important thing you want in a lab is good mentoring. Most undergrads are not going to do anything significant in terms of publishing a paper, although some will get their name somewhere in the author list. I have seen people on this site who claim to have one or more first author papers as an undergrad. This is NOT normal, this is superhuman.

You really just want to make sure you learn some stuff and have a good experience and form good relationships with your PI and the grad student or post-doc you're working with. At the end of the day, your need recommendation letters from these people. The fact that a lab has many grad students or post-docs is usually a good sign in terms of the productivity of their research, but you many not get to know the PI very well, which would be a bad thing from my perspective. You could also have a small lab that is just getting started with a new faculty, and they could be doing awesome stuff, you never know. As an undergrad, I would go for a small lab with quality mentoring.

I would define a small lab as a few grad students (maybe 3), and maybe one post-doc, and a few undergrads.

 

[premed3445]

I am thinking of looking for labs at my university.
I've heard a few of my friends say this... If an old professor/PI who has been at the university for a long time is running a small lab, that it's a bad sign (like they are not getting funding etc) Is that true?
Sure it would be nice if the lab was big is the group size always indicative of the success of the research there?

It would make sense to me if some professors prefer to teach more and place less emphasis on research. It is possible to have a small, well funded (for its size) lab

 

[Bear Grylls]

I've been published twice and am a senior. 2 additional pubs pending currently. Small lab as you say, one PI, one post-doc, 1 grad student, used to be 2, soon to be 2.

A small lab has given me more hands on opportunities and one-on-one mentorship with my PI. Wouldn't trade it for the world.

 

[Goro]

The real question is: how many publications is the lab producing, and in what journals?

A small lab can be a very good thing...more attention from the PI, for starters. In a big lab, you might be simply thrown to the sharks...and your PI is not YOUR PI, but is a post-doc or student.

So yes, a big lab will be both productive and rich, but might not be the best place to be. They will probably be less vested in your success.

I've seen this happen a lot in my >30 years of research.

I am thinking of looking for labs at my university.
I've heard a few of my friends say this... If an old professor/PI who has been at the university for a long time is running a small lab, that it's a bad sign (like they are not getting funding etc) Is that true?
Sure it would be nice if the lab was big is the group size always indicative of the success of the research there?

 

[TriagePreMed]

You're not going to get into med school by your PI's name. You'll get in for the experience and what you get out of it. I would honestly prefer a smaller lab with more attention as an undergrad than a huge one where post-doc or senior grad student will run the show.

 

[Mr Avante]

I've seen this happen a lot in my >30 years of research.

You're not going to get into med school by your PI's name.

True, unless your mentor is Shinya Yamanaka, or Robert G. Edwards.

you go shinya!

 

[Zumab]

True, unless your mentor is Shinya Yamanaka, or Robert G. Edwards.

you go shinya!

Yamanaka.... imagine that!!! lol

 

[Zumab]

The real question is: how many publications is the lab producing, and in what journals?

A small lab can be a very good thing...more attention from the PI, for starters. In a big lab, you might be simply thrown to the sharks...and your PI is not YOUR PI, but is a post-doc or student.

So yes, a big lab will be both productive and rich, but might not be the best place to be. They will probably be less vested in your success.

I've seen this happen a lot in my >30 years of research.

What if you work in a small lab(4 ppl), have no mentor(no mentorship at all), see PI once a week during lab meeting, but get to do your own project. Is that worth it?

 

[Mr Avante]

Yamanaka.... imagine that!!! lol

Yep. I attended his lecture on december 2012. 🙂

What if you work in a small lab(4 ppl), have no mentor(no mentorship at all), see PI once a week during lab meeting, but get to do your own project. Is that worth it?

Everything is worth it if taken seriously. If you have the ability to conduct the project on your own, go do it. Own lab projects often prepare the person for real-life jobs.

 

[Zumab]

Yep. I attended his lecture on december 2012. 🙂

Everything is worth it if taken seriously. If you have the ability to conduct the project on your own, go do it. Own lab projects often prepare the person for real-life jobs.

nahhh lol
i just feel used and abused there. gonna find someplace that can train me for real. 🙂