Stethoscope and Diagnostic Set

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JamesBond15

JamesBond15

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Hey everyone!
Help a first year out.

We need to get an Stethoscope and a diagonstic set.
This is what the student's store is selling:

Littmann Cardiology III Stethoscope - ~$150
http://www.amazon.com/Littmann-3128...ef=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=hpc&qid=1263001968&sr=8-1

and
Welch Allyn 97200-MC Diagnostic Set - $500
http://www.medisave.net/welch-allyn-97200mc-diagnostic-p-188.html

What do you think about these? Good / Bad? Since I am clueless any tips would be nice.

Thanks!

 
JamesBond15 said:
Hey everyone!
Help a first year out.

We need to get an Stethoscope and a diagonstic set.
This is what the student's store is selling:

Littmann Cardiology III Stethoscope - ~$150
http://www.amazon.com/Littmann-3128...ef=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=hpc&qid=1263001968&sr=8-1

and
Welch Allyn 97200-MC Diagnostic Set - $500
http://www.medisave.net/welch-allyn-97200mc-diagnostic-p-188.html

What do you think about these? Good / Bad? Since I am clueless any tips would be nice.

Thanks!
Click to expand...

You might be able to find the stethoscope for cheaper, check out allheart.com the Diag Kit is pretty standardly priced
 
You'll never use the diagnostic kit outside of the few days in 2nd year when they show you how. When you get to clinicals theres a diagnostic set on the wall in every exam room. Model-wise, its good.

I never bought one. If you really want one, get it used on ebay.



The Littmann Cardio 3 normally runs for about $135. Try Allheart.com.
Model.... Littmann is a poor choice, thought its the most highly marketed. I highly recommend this one http://www.welchallyn.com/products/en-us/x-11-ac-100-0000000001171.htm
 
I think as a first and second year we don't have the necessary skill to hear the differences between a cardio 3 and harvey elite. They would both be adequate for your uses. I've seen multiple cardiologists use a cardio 3, so I'm pretty sure it is good enough for our purposes.
 
If you have an interest in Cardiology, go for a more expensive Steth. Otherwise, Cardio III is a good choice.

I echo what howelljolly said about the diagnostic set. I know it's exciting to get all this new 'doctor' equipment, but in general, it's probably not necessary. Resist the urge to buy the set and use your money elsewhere. I got through without one. Steth, cheap reflex hammer, penlight, and possibly pocket medicine should be the basics you need in your junior whitecoat pockets when you hit the wards 3rd year.

I may pick one up (a diagnostic set) eventually because I like to do free clinic work, but there should be a set in most if not all rooms or floors you work on during 3rd and 4th year. So unless you see yourself doing certain independent work outside of your required medical school curriculum, you're probably safe not getting the set.
 
Well, I don't really want to spend money on the diagnostic set but it is required. It would be quite a pain to borrow it from someone since we will all be using it at the same time.
 
>.>

<.<

*whispers* "They tell everyone they're 'required'".


Some schools actually 'require' them I suppose. I was told it was required, but again, I did fine without it. C'mon, we're going upwards of $150k in debt. Most people understand that saving a few hundred dollars is pretty important for a med student.
 
JamesBond15 said:
Well, I don't really want to spend money on the diagnostic set but it is required. It would be quite a pain to borrow it from someone since we will all be using it at the same time.
Click to expand...

Many upperclassmen, especially those going into ortho or rads are very willing to sell their diagnoistic sets on ebay or outright. At this time, you could look around your school or put up a "wanted" ad. If not, they abound on ebay. As others have said, you don't have to shell out $500 for something that you really won't use much and may not need at all if you go into a specialty surgery/surgical subspecialties, ortho, rads, pathology and psych etc. These "required" sets were sold and resold at my school commonly.
 
MossPoh said:
I think as a first and second year we don't have the necessary skill to hear the differences between a cardio 3 and harvey elite. They would both be adequate for your uses. I've seen multiple cardiologists use a cardio 3, so I'm pretty sure it is good enough for our purposes.
Click to expand...


It's somewhere between overkill and lipstick on a pig. The Cardio3 has a tunable diaphragm. "Tuning in" adds and extra step/skill to learning cardiac auscultation. And, you won't really know you've tuned in to the right frequency until you already happen to know what you are listening for. Besides that, the tunable diaphragm adds a "mushy" quality which a traditional diaphragm doesn't have.

The Harvey is "pre-set" to the two frequencies you need - high and low. It's easier to learn on. The text books are written with the traditional bell/diaphragm in mind. It's also better to have once you do know what you're doing. The frequency range is wider, and the resolution is better.
 
You can take that peds diaphragm off and use it like a standard diaphragm/bell combo. That is what I did for the sake of osces. Very few people I know actually keep the peds diaphragm on. In the rare situations (dependent on speciality) that they needed it, they had one sitting around to use.
 
MossPoh said:
You can take that peds diaphragm off and use it like a standard diaphragm/bell combo. That is what I did for the sake of osces. Very few people I know actually keep the peds diaphragm on. In the rare situations (dependent on speciality) that they needed it, they had one sitting around to use.
Click to expand...


Well, you can... and get a good traditional bell. But your diaphragm is still tunable and pressure-sensitive. If you're going to do that make sure you consistently press hard enough with the diaphragm to blanch the skin.
 
The Littmann Classic II SE is another fine choice if you're wanting to spend less. You can always buy a more expensive model when you have enough skill to take advantage of the equipment.
 
Just my 2 cents. I got busted on Friday because I didn't have my stupid ophthalmoscope with me and had a chick with Optic Neuritis come in. Now do you think that my 400 bed hospital has a portable scope somewhere, anywhere? Negative. If I wanted to push my pt down to the ED I could use the ones that are on the walls, otherwise, no dice. My residents were probably similar to the people posting above and said "don't need it". I then looked like an all-star when I brought mine in on Saturday and saved face for the team in front of our ball-buster attending. Point: don't be so sure that you'll always have access to one. You probably will, but it doesn't hurt to shell out a few and get a used one to have and practice with. Also, quick tip, if you have pets and it's not some crappy little angry Pomeranian, they might let you practice on them for treats.
 
I was in the hospital last week and there were no diagnostic sets on the walls. Not to mention I've gotten pretty good at doing fundus exams because I've practiced so many times on my family members :laugh:

The Classic II stethoscope is absolute crap. You'll be happy you got the Cardio III (which you could sell on eBay at the end of med school if you didn't need it anymore)
 
xanthomondo said:
I was in the hospital last week and there were no diagnostic sets on the walls. Not to mention I've gotten pretty good at doing fundus exams because I've practiced so many times on my family members :laugh:

The Classic II stethoscope is absolute crap. You'll be happy you got the Cardio III (which you could sell on eBay at the end of med school if you didn't need it anymore)
Click to expand...

Yeah, Ill examine your fundus. :meanie:

I was waiting for someone else to say this before I did, so thanks. The Classic II has NONE of the features of a real stethoscope. Its a clever ploy to make people blow $70 on a "Littmann". Its only good for nurses, or blood pressures.

You need a dual lumen tube, and the ClassicII doesn't have one - sound travels in waves, and you're supposed to keep it that way.

The bell is just as shallow as the diaphragm, and on actual acoustic testing has been shown to pick up the same frequencies as the diaphragm itself. Obviously its there because its supposed to pick up something different - namely the low frequencies only. You need a bell that is deep... like the CardioII or the Harvey Elite.

The tunable diaphragm is still crap.

If you want to save money, try an ADC steth - they have a Litt. Cardio II copy which works better than the real Cardio III.
 
Thanks for the feedback.

A couple of new things I learn that hopefully you guys can help me sort out.

What do you think of this otoscope:
http://www.amazon.com/Diagnostic-Co...ef=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&s=hpc&qid=1260325866&sr=1-3

Worth getting? Are there any good ones that are not $500?

Also, the store sales person was telling me that the Cardiology III has some rubber attachment that you add to the peds side making it a diaphragm (I think or maybe a bell, either way it converts it to one). So again, you begin with a both sides tunable (press hard to diaphragm, press light for bell). One sides peds and one side adults. But what he said is that you can add something to the peds side making it a diaphragm so you don't have to worry about pressing hard/light anymore? Is that true?
(I don't fully trust that salesperson and I can't seem to figure out it out looking at the description on allheart)

Thanks!!! I greatly appreciate it!
 
are the cardio iii's on allheart 27"? It doesnt say.
 
JamesBond15 said:
Thanks for the feedback.

A couple of new things I learn that hopefully you guys can help me sort out.

What do you think of this otoscope:
http://www.amazon.com/Diagnostic-Co...ef=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&s=hpc&qid=1260325866&sr=1-3

Worth getting? Are there any good ones that are not $500?

Also, the store sales person was telling me that the Cardiology III has some rubber attachment that you add to the peds side making it a diaphragm (I think or maybe a bell, either way it converts it to one). So again, you begin with a both sides tunable (press hard to diaphragm, press light for bell). One sides peds and one side adults. But what he said is that you can add something to the peds side making it a diaphragm so you don't have to worry about pressing hard/light anymore? Is that true?
(I don't fully trust that salesperson and I can't seem to figure out it out looking at the description on allheart)

Thanks!!! I greatly appreciate it!
Click to expand...

Cardio III - you yank off the Peds-Tunable-Diaphragm and convert it to an Adult-Bell.

Let me draw you a diagram
(peds diaphragm |>] adult diaphragm) becomes (bell >] diaphragm)

You are left with a regular adult bell so you dont have to worry about pressing hard or lightly. 👍 Just press lightly - the dead weight of the scope is about the right pressure.

However, you are still left with the Adult-Tunable-Diaphragm on the other side. You'll still have to press hard in order to actually make it work like a diaphragm. 👎 Otherwise it might be working like a bell too.
 
howelljolly said:
Cardio III - you yank off the Peds-Tunable-Diaphragm and convert it to an Adult-Bell.

Let me draw you a diagram
(peds diaphragm |>] adult diaphragm) becomes (bell >] diaphragm)

You are left with a regular adult bell so you dont have to worry about pressing hard or lightly. 👍 Just press lightly - the dead weight of the scope is about the right pressure.

However, you are still left with the Adult-Tunable-Diaphragm on the other side. You'll still have to press hard in order to actually make it work like a diaphragm. 👎 Otherwise it might be working like a bell too.
Click to expand...

Thanks! That makes sense. I appreciate it. Are there any attachments to make the tunable-diaphgram non-tunable. Any suggestions for cheaper diagnostic set?

Sorry.. I am pretty sure these are dumb questions. But the class and I are pretty clueless on this matter.
 
Last edited:
JamesBond15 said:
Thanks! That makes sense. I appreciate it. Are there any attachments to make the tunable-diaphgram non-tunable. Any suggestions for cheaper diagnostic set?

Sorry.. I am pretty sure these are dumb questions. But the class and I are pretty clueless on this matter.
Click to expand...

No, theres nothing you can do to make it non-tunable. Thats why I suggest the Welch Allyn. The WA also comes with a corrugated diaphragm that you can use to detect midrange sounds, for when you get lazy and just want to listen once instead of twice. Its very easy to switch out the regular diaphragm with the corrugated one if you want to use it.

ADC makes/made a cheaper diagnostic set. Its also a bit lighter, if youre going to truck it around in your pocket.
 
Last edited:
JamesBond15 said:
Thanks! That makes sense. I appreciate it. Are there any attachments to make the tunable-diaphgram non-tunable. Any suggestions for cheaper diagnostic set?

Sorry.. I am pretty sure these are dumb questions. But the class and I are pretty clueless on this matter.
Click to expand...
So there is a way to actually make a tunable diaphragm (like the new cardio III stethoscopes) into a non tunable. All you have to do is go online and buy a single bodied littmann diaphragm for $5.00 and put the bell sleeve on the opposite side and you have essentially turned your cardio III into a cardio II

http://www.reddingmedical.com/386_Littmann_Diaphragms__2152.cfm?id=386&step=4&lastcatid=21

^^^$3.50
 
Last edited:
xanthomondo said:
I was in the hospital last week and there were no diagnostic sets on the walls. Not to mention I've gotten pretty good at doing fundus exams because I've practiced so many times on my family members :laugh:

The Classic II stethoscope is absolute crap. You'll be happy you got the Cardio III (which you could sell on eBay at the end of med school if you didn't need it anymore)
Click to expand...

I have the Classic II SE only because we needed something for the "tools check" in 1st year. I don't use it and it was less than $50 new on Amazon. I'll buy a better one when I graduate if someone else doesn't get me one as a gift, lol.
 
JamesBond15 said:
Hey everyone!
Help a first year out.

We need to get an Stethoscope and a diagonstic set.
This is what the student's store is selling:

Littmann Cardiology III Stethoscope - ~$150
http://www.amazon.com/Littmann-3128...ef=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=hpc&qid=1263001968&sr=8-1

and
Welch Allyn 97200-MC Diagnostic Set - $500
http://www.medisave.net/welch-allyn-97200mc-diagnostic-p-188.html

What do you think about these? Good / Bad? Since I am clueless any tips would be nice.

Thanks!
Click to expand...
I have both of these and like em. I kind of regret shelling out for the welch allyn diagnostic kit, but it is nice. 😛 A lot of my classmates have a cheap ADC scope, which seems to be lacking in features and quality. Other scopes probably have this feature but the welch has an adapter that lets you use C batts instead of the rechargeable battery which is good if you plan on doing mission trips. I like the cardio III, but again what do I know, I'm just a lowly m1.
 
49ers said:
I have the Classic II SE only because we needed something for the "tools check" in 1st year. I don't use it and it was less than $50 new on Amazon. I'll buy a better one when I graduate if someone else doesn't get me one as a gift, lol.
Click to expand...

I have that particular model. It works great skin to stethoscope. I've had one for years and don't plan to replace it barring breakage, loss, etc. If someone wants to buy a more expensive stethoscope they are clearly welcome to do so but this particular model does a very decent job.
 
You can definitely find cheaper kits, using conventional batteries. I think my friend found one for around $150.

We were forced to buy kits since our SP rooms have the powersources for the oto/opthalmo but no heads...:laugh:

I have the Cardio III, it was gifted by the Osteo society in PA, and like it. Obviously I can't use it to it's full "glory" but I don't find the bell/diaphragm pressure thing distracting or hard to do. We've only used the adult head differently on our cardio exam, but I'm sure there are other reasons to use it. Laugh... I'm a first year 😉.
 
We were told we had to buy a diagnostic kit as well when I was a first and second year for our learning the physical exam class. We were also told we would definitely need to have it during third year. Both were basically lies.

Almost no one in my class used the set the bought. The things are too heavy to carry on the wards and when you do bring it, you leave it in your bag in the team room on the other side of the hospital because it is so heavy.

Almost every floor of most hospitals will have a mobile set that you can borrow.

If you really feel the need to buy a set, I'd recommend you get the pocket sets from welch allyn online. It will save you a few hundred bucks.
 
So I ended up getting the ADC scope for $150 and the Cardiology III. We will see how things go. Thanks for the replies.
 
I like my cardio III. Mainly because everyone else has harvey elites through the school, so I know which one is mine.
 
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