Still confused about Post-Bacc options...

[UCSD1984]

Hi everyone. Before I start, I just want anyone reading to know that I have gone through an extensive search regarding these questions and I apologize if I'm repeating a lot of what is already asked on here.

About me; I'm a recent UCSD graduate (June 2010) with a Bachelors in Human Biology with a Minor in Psychology. My UC-GPA is a 2.76 and my overall GPA is a 2.9 (horrific, I know). I'm extremely capable of obtaining a 3.5+ (you've heard it all before), I just made some poor decisions during my undergrad years. It wasn't until last month that I realized how much I believe I would enjoy Dentistry, and I'm now ready to begin my reconstruction process in order to make this happen.

However, I'm still confused about Post-Baccs/Masters programs. The general consensus seems to lean towards a Post-Bacc versus a Masters, but almost all (if not all) Post-Bacc programs I've found are geared towards URMs/Economically disadvantaged individuals, neither of which I can be categorized as.

The option that has most piqued my interest is a Post-Bacc program where I pick and choose my own classes. The biggest benefit to me at the moment involves schedule flexibility along with staying in San Diego (taking the classes at UCSD). Here are my questions in regards to this option...

1.) What are the cons in comparison to an actual Post-Bacc program or an MS?

2.) How many classes should I take?

3.) Should I take classes that I've already taken and gotten a "C-" in? I have 3 of those =/

4.) Which part of my GPA will these new courses I take be calculated into? Certainly not my undergraduate GPA, I would assume. Into my science GPA?

5.) Do I literally just go back to school and start signing up for courses again? Should I speak to a counselor prior?

6.) With my current GPA, is there any chance at all of getting accepted to Dental School if I scored 20+ on all sections across the board on the DAT? I'm pretty sure the answer is no, but I'd rather hear a professional response rather than my own instinctive response.

7.) What are your opinions on a Masters of Arts in Biology (non-thesis) at USD (University of San Diego) vs. the aforementioned?

8.) Any other advice/tips/opinions?

I greatly appreciate your time and aid.

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[4thMolar]

1.) You don't have to enroll into a formal post-bacc program or a Masters program in order to raise your GPA. You can simply enroll as a Non-Degree seeking student and continue taking upper division courses.

2.) I'd take at least 3 to 4 science courses to raise your science and overall GPAs.

3.) If you made a C- in any pre-req, I would definitely re-take those courses as the majority of schools do not accept a C- in a pre-req course.

4.) If you take post-bacc courses or enroll into a formal post-bacc, these courses will be calculated into your undergraduate degree, thus your GPAs aren't going to change much since you have already accumulated so many credit hours. In contrast, if you enroll into a Master's program, a whole new graduate GPA will be calculated for you by AADSAS, and schools will see this new graduate GPA.

5.) Yes you can. You can talk to your advisor or the Registrar to get more information on how to register for courses.

6.) I wouldn't say your chance of getting into dental school with your current GPA is 0%, but it comes pretty close. Even with a stellar DAT, your GPA is simply too low and you will automatically get rejected during the initial screening processes. You may have a chance to get an interview at your state school, but even then it will be difficult.

7.) A non-thesis Masters in a science program is definitely the way you want to go. Contact the program director and see how many students are in a situation as yourself and are enrolled in this program.

8.) Some people will tell you to go for post-bacc and others will tell you to go with a Masters. Either way, your GPA will rise if you do well in courses, but I personally would go with a Masters program that is geared towards improving your application for dental school (aka Special Masters Program). You'll be around students who are in a similar situation to yourself and you will be presented with coursework that is similar to dental school. You can check out post-bacc and graduate programs in the post-bacc forum:

http://forums.studentdoctor.net/forumdisplay.php?f=71

 

[UCSD1984]

4thMolar, I can't thank you enough for your extensive response. Very informative and helpful my friend.

I'd like to touch on a couple points you mentioned. Why did you say a "non-thesis Masters" was the way to go? I was actually afraid of posting that since I thought a MA (non-thesis) in Biology would be lacking in superiority in comparison to a MS (thesis) in Biology.

Also, I'd love to stay in San Diego near my family during this time, regardless of it being a Post-Bacc option or a Masters. I'm afraid I can't find any SMPs for Pre-Dental in the San Diego area. If you know of any, please toss them my way and I'll read into it.

With my GPA and how insanely low it is, I'm now actually a hard-time believing I can boost it significantly in a 12-18 month time-frame, regardless of how well I do. Perhaps a Masters would be my best bet?

 

[UBERlowGPA]

With my GPA and how insanely low it is, I'm now actually a hard-time believing I can boost it significantly in a 12-18 month time-frame, regardless of how well I do. Perhaps a Masters would be my best bet?

My undergrad GPA was pretty close to yours... right around 2.7ish. I took me 2 years of 18-19 unit quarters with a 4.0 GPA to raise it BARELY above 3.0. I took the informal postbac route and took ALL upperdivision science classes: some new, and some repeated due to bad grades.

In the end, your overall GPA might not be very high. I know mine wasn't. But I think it speaks volumes when your previous GPA was 2.7 and your current GPA from the last 80-100 units you've taken are close to 4.0. I'm fairly certain admissions boards will see that you're not the traditional applicant and judge your grades accordingly.

 

[mooredge]

I also graduated from UCSD and ended up in a similar situation as you UCSD 1984. My gpa was just a hair above 3.0 at graduation. I still ended up taking some courses at Miramar community college to raise it a bit more. I think when i got accepted to dental school it ended up at 3.2 overall on my app, can't remember sience gpa. Did a bunch of volunteer work, pre-dent stuff and worked full time in a biotech lab. There is a great pre-dental program at UCSD i would look into in addition to the course work. Hang in there.

 

[4thMolar]

A non-thesis program is no less superior than a thesis-based program, especially considering dental school is your objective. Many non-thesis based programs know students are trying to improve their credentials for professional school, therefore the program itself is constructed in such a way that mimics professional school and gives you an opportunity to showcase your skills and aptitude to admission committees. If you do well in these programs, dental schools will know you are capable of handling the rigors of their curriculum.

 

[UCSD1984]

My undergrad GPA was pretty close to yours... right around 2.7ish. I took me 2 years of 18-19 unit quarters with a 4.0 GPA to raise it BARELY above 3.0. I took the informal postbac route and took ALL upperdivision science classes: some new, and some repeated due to bad grades.

In the end, your overall GPA might not be very high. I know mine wasn't. But I think it speaks volumes when your previous GPA was 2.7 and your current GPA from the last 80-100 units you've taken are close to 4.0. I'm fairly certain admissions boards will see that you're not the traditional applicant and judge your grades accordingly.

UBER, thanks so much for the response my friend. I noticed you now attend UoP. Congratulations, first of all. Your story is quite inspiring since it's such a similar situation to mine. If I may ask; how well did you score on the DAT? How much volunteer work in a dental setting did you have? Do you recall how many total units you took post-graduation? I'm assuming around 100 since you mentioned that "80-100" range. Thanks again for your time.

I also graduated from UCSD and ended up in a similar situation as you UCSD 1984. My gpa was just a hair above 3.0 at graduation. I still ended up taking some courses at Miramar community college to raise it a bit more. I think when i got accepted to dental school it ended up at 3.2 overall on my app, can't remember sience gpa. Did a bunch of volunteer work, pre-dent stuff and worked full time in a biotech lab. There is a great pre-dental program at UCSD i would look into in addition to the course work. Hang in there.

Mooredge, I really appreciate your response. Glad to meet a fellow UCSD Alumni on these boards! If I may ask; Which Dental school did you get accepted to? (Congratulations by the way!) What did you score on your DAT? Did you take any courses at UCSD post-graduation or did you do it all at Miramar? Also, how many courses did you take post-graduation? Thank you again for your time.

A non-thesis program is no less superior than a thesis-based program, especially considering dental school is your objective. Many non-thesis based programs know students are trying to improve their credentials for professional school, therefore the program itself is constructed in such a way that mimics professional school and gives you an opportunity to showcase your skills and aptitude to admission committees. If you do well in these programs, dental schools will know you are capable of handling the rigors of their curriculum.

Thank you again 4thMolar, that cleared it up for me. I have an appointment with a Grad Career Counselor at UCSD tomorrow and I'll ask her if she knows of any MA programs in San Diego. I need to decide between an MA or an Informal Post-Bacc. approach.

 

[UBERlowGPA]

UBER, thanks so much for the response my friend. I noticed you now attend UoP. Congratulations, first of all. Your story is quite inspiring since it's such a similar situation to mine. If I may ask; how well did you score on the DAT? How much volunteer work in a dental setting did you have? Do you recall how many total units you took post-graduation? I'm assuming around 100 since you mentioned that "80-100" range. Thanks again for your time.

Thanks! School starts in July, and I'm not gonna lie, I'm nervous.

As for the DAT, my scores were:

Bio: 21
Gen Chem: 21
OChem: 22
Total Sci: 21
QR: 21
Reading Comp: 20
PAT: 24
Acad Aver: 21

Undergrad and Postbac combined...
800 hours shadowing
4 years research
1800 community service hours

Post graduation, I took a little over 100 units (quarter system)

I've said this in a couple other posts as well, but I think an important thing to do in your situation is to communicate with people in the admissions offices of the schools you want to attend. Meet with them now, and continually update them on how you're doing with school and how your grades, scores, etc. are improving. They also helped me choose what classes to take and which part of my application to focus my efforts towards. Even with a well written personal statement, it was hard to express EVERYTHING I have been through within my AADSAS application, so I found that speaking with admissions officers and telling them my story directly helped them "understand" that my overall GPA did not reflect my present academic efforts.

 

[vwantihero]

.....
Undergrad and Postbac combined...
800 hours shadowing
4 years research
1800 community service hours
......

just wondering, what was your employment situation during all of this?

 

[dentalWorks]

my responses = in blue

1.) What are the cons in comparison to an actual Post-Bacc program or an MS?
No cons whatsoever. Doing an informal post-bacc is the way to go IMO. You get to tailor your own schedule and take only classes you need. Its also cheaper than and more hassle free (don't require relocation)

2.) How many classes should I take?
Take as many upper level bios that you can get your hands on. Things are Biochemistry, Physiology, Immunology, Pharmacology, Gross anatomy, Microbiology, cell biology / molecular biology, Histology, etc etc.

3.) Should I take classes that I've already taken and gotten a "C-" in? I have 3 of those =/
Only retake a pre-dent with a C- (or lower)... pre-dent courses are your typical General chems, Orgos, Physcis, and basic 100-level biologies. Its more impressive and more meaningful to take new higher end classes (like #2 above) and acing them rather than retaking an old class where you had the material covered already.

4.) Which part of my GPA will these new courses I take be calculated into? Certainly not my undergraduate GPA, I would assume. Into my science GPA?
Post-bacc is just like undergrad, it will get lumped into your undergrad GPA. This is why post-bacc is such an attractive option, it can bring the overall, science, and BCP GPAs

5.) Do I literally just go back to school and start signing up for courses again? Should I speak to a counselor prior?
First part = Yes
Second part = I don't like counselors, I never met one who gave good straight up advice. You want good advice? you come here and post your questions.

6.) With my current GPA, is there any chance at all of getting accepted to Dental School if I scored 20+ on all sections across the board on the DAT? I'm pretty sure the answer is no, but I'd rather hear a professional response rather than my own instinctive response.
2.9 GPA + 20 DAT = odds are against you.

7.) What are your opinions on a Masters of Arts in Biology (non-thesis) at USD (University of San Diego) vs. the aforementioned?
Can't answer this.

8.) Any other advice/tips/opinions?
Get some shadowing before you start any post-bacc.

Just for the record, before I did 58 credits in post-bacc (informal). My overall was 3.0 and science was 3.15. After the post-bacc, overall went to 3.3, and science went to 3.6

 

[UBERlowGPA]

just wondering, what was your employment situation during all of this?

A majority of that shadowing was PAID shadowing. I lucked out and found a dentist who hired me as a "supportive assistant" which paid me something like $9/hr. I worked around 15 hours a week for close to 2 years.

My research job was also paid. There was a program on campus that helped fund student research. I applied my freshman year and they matched me up with a lab. I liked it so much that I worked there until I graduated.

The hours of volunteer work were made possible by my fraternity.

I also worked as a bartender during the weekends. This job was AWESOME because work hours didn't clash with school. I was able to be "out" and instead of spending money, I was making it.

I currently STILL bartend and would love to keep my job while in school, but I don't know how possible that is.

 

[UCSD1984]

I can't thank you all enough for the magnificent information. I'm going to begin researching my course options for this upcoming quarter and begin this journey. Whatever questions I have, I will post them on this forum. Thank you all so much, I'm so excited to finally prove what I'm capable of.