Still hope?

[amikhchi]

Believe me, I know that it is still WAY early in the cycle, but I am personally scarred from 2 cycles of roughly 30 schools each (about 20 2ndaries) of 0 interviews

i have a 3.31 AO, 3.47 BCPM, 3.41 cGPA
aug 2007: 31P (11, 8, 12) PS, VR, BS
Apr 2009: 36Q (13, 9, 14)

I have about 200 hrs of community service work at a rehabilitation center
about 150 hrs over 2 summers at a family doctor's office
i've set up and been *managing* a neighborhood football league for a few years now (hours are up there probably near 1000)
I tutor students and mentor pre-meds (yeah what do i know, i'm just a pre-med, but i mean PRE-meds)
I've been playing the piano for over 10 years now
all throughout college except for senior year I had a full time or near fulltime job
I have 3 semesters worth of research with my genetics professor (no pub) totalling roughly 110 hrs
and I have been shadowing an ophthalmologist for a while now (since early 2009)

1st application: not nearly as many ECs (chose not to add a lot because i didn't know i needed to) and applied late while still in school with the 31p: 0 interviews

2nd: same ECs didn't think I should add piano, football, hobbies, work, etc just put down the clinical and volunteer stuff and research, but i applied 1st day, and got 2ndaries out soon as well: 0 interviews

3rd (present): ECs you've seen listed, a new mcat score, not nearly as much confidence and hope as before, but i again applied the 1st day, i applied broadly and i've sent out several 2ndaries... believe me i understand it's too early to panic, but i can't help it considering past experiences... am i just screwed for some ungodly reason?

Cal-State Northridge (if that matters)
Rec Letters: community service volunteer head, ochem prof, genetics prof, anatomy prof, and 2 MDs, and I wasn't a gunner (as you can see from my gpa), but i made sure the teachers liked me

I did apply to a few *reach* schools, but also a lot of schools within my numbers, i was told an 8 in verbal isn't the WORST thing, so i assume a 9 can't be horrible either, i know the GPA isn't stellar (as far as med-students go), but i would assume the overall MCAT makes up for it...
CA-resident applying to all CA schools (got 2ndary from ucsf, uci, uc davis, but not from ucla and ucsd... odd?)

if you want my school list i'll post it up

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[dragonfly99]

I think the better MCAT score should help you. It's actually quite good, except for the verbal score which is just average. You need to be honest with yourself...the GPA is definitely below average for a medical school applicant, especially in California, which is apparently notoriously competitive.

I would worry a little that perhaps your LOR's are not great, and/or the people writing them don't know a lot about writing LOR's for a medical school applicant. I also think you attended a not super well known undergrad school, so that's not going to help you get into the ubercompetitive places and I think UCSF and probably UCLA fall into that category.

At this point you may need to invest in professional editing services for your application essay and the application as a whole, if you haven't already. It wouldn't hurt to try to boost up your academics, either. If I were in your situation I'd have cut back on the football hours and taken a science class (master's level or 400 level biology) this semester to show you are serious about your academics.

 

[dragonfly99]

I'm not sure how much getting the secondaries mean...schools may knee-jerk send these out to everyone, or to all people above some cutoff that isn't really that high.

It seems like you can be a doc...I don't want to discourage you but you've got to think hard about whether you WANT it bad enough to do what you need to do. You say you are not a gunner. Med school is full of gunners and they will eat you for breakfast if you aren't ready to suck it up and sit in lectures 6 hours a day and then go home and memorize all the crap they just taught you for several more hours that day. Med school is what it is and it isn't going to change. It's not just about being smart enough but about being willing to take the punishment. The adcoms know that and perhaps they weren't seeing that absolute commitment in your application...I don't know you but that's just a thought, but it's based on what you said. I'm not saying you have the commitment or you don't, but you've got to realize what the applicant pool is and who it is you are competing with. You are competing with the gunners from Stanford, UCSF, UC Davis who have 3.8 GPA and the same MCAT score that you have, the same extracurriculars. You have to tell the adcom what it is you have that these others don't.

You should consider out of state private schools...try Rosalind Franklin, St. Louis University, Tulane, etc. Try DO schools. What about Western U? I just worked with an intern from there and he was excellent.

 

[amikhchi]

I get what you mean... I know i'm not *competitive* at those schools, I only listed it because I would assume UCSF is higher ranked and therefore screens applicants more thoroughly than does UCLA or UCSD, but I have yet to receive 2ndaries from those two. And as for applying broadly, I have applied to Rosalind franklin, slu, and tulane, and probably any others you would've listed in ur *etc*... why not DO? it has nothing to do with the whole DO vs MD thing, only becuase i've heard (again probably my fault for assuming) that adcoms at DO schools would look at my app as someone who is only applying DO as a backup (not saying that's true, just saying that's what i've heard)... as for commitment, the MCAT was a beast of a test, i never thought i'd retake it, but i did, i did not expect to (but i was willing to) apply 3 cycles, this process has cost me over 10k$ (if you factor in prep courses, and materials along with applications) and I have literally NOTHING to show for it, I am definitely committed to this, and am willing to take a few classes if that will show i'm committed, but taking classes will not change my gpa the least bit because i have over 160 units (majority of them are science too)...

I know the pool is competitive, but i thought by this time i would've gotten at least 1 interview at one of these schools within the 3 cycles...

maybe i'm just bitter

 

[cabinbuilder]

Wow, I cannot believe you didn't even get an interview? I would think there is some kind of red flag in your application. Did you have a good essay and did you have someone go through it before submission? I personally think the essay is very important because it's how you portray yourself and show your language skills. It's what makes you interesting and how they judge whether it's worth their time to meet you. Your numbers are way higher than mine ever were (I went to DO school). Perhaps you need to call one of the schools and find out where they think the deficits in your application lie?? That's what I did. I would definitely apply DO as well. I think October is late. I applied in Oct for DO school the first time and wasn't interviewed until late March then was waitlisted. I applied the second time in June, interviewed in Nov. and was accepted by Christmas. Maybe your timing is too late?

 

[dragonfly99]

The GPA is pretty low for allopathic schools.
He might need to do one of those special master's programs with linkage to a particular med school to have a chance of getting in.
I would think he'd have a shot at some DO schools.
If he lives in CA then getting an interview at state schools might be very hard...they have a lot of people with good GPA's, good extracurriculars, research and high MCAT scores.

I 100% agree with calling up schools where you applied last year and seeing what they say about why you didn't get interviewed. It will give you the best insight. Go straight to the horse's mouth...don't believe what we tell you.

I agree w/above comments about the personal statement, and I'd add that I'm worried also about the letters of recommendation. You need them to be strong, and hopefully from someone who knows you well.

 

[cabinbuilder]

There should be no problem getting into DO school. The OP has a great overall package to talk about. However, looking at the avatar maybe they come across as not being serious or ready. Hard to know. I"m still surprised they haven't been accepted by now.

 

[amikhchi]

well i would hope (and highly doubt) that something as stupid as my avatar isn't what has been keeping me out this long... I mean it's a drawing of a picture from nearly 5 years ago... and as for coming across as not serious or ready, wouldn't i need to interview before they could make that assumption, and yes i have had my PS and all secondary essays proofread by others

 

[Food]

Your GPA is not ridiculously low. With a 3.47 and a 36, you should probably get interviews - with that said...you are a 3rd time re-app so I'm not sure. I have interview with a 38/3.3 this year, and had an interview from a different school with the same stats last year. I've vastly improved my app in terms of activities. I think the point I am trying to make is that with a 3.47 and 36 MCAT...your problem should not be entirely academic (if you end up having a problem). Best of luck.

 

[dragonfly99]

OP, you say that they would have to interview you to judge your level of maturity. Not necessarily. Your LOR writers may have commented on this, or not. Also, sometimes they will judge this by reading your personal statement. Also, maybe it isn't maturity they feel is lacking. Maybe there was just nothing unique to make your application stand out. California is a very very competitive state in which to try to get med school admission. If not willing to leave the West, then I'd try DO schools as well as MD. I'd be hitting a lot of private med schools with lower average GPA's with my application as well, if I were in your shoes.

I'd be curious to know who wrote your LOR's. Were any of them faculty at a medical school? Were any of them science faculty members who have a lot of experience teaching premeds, and could thus vouch for you being on par/competitive with other students who have entered med school?

 

[amikhchi]

My relationship with my letter writers is/was very professional, I had them written by my O-chem, genetics, and anatomy professors. I had the highest grade in each of those 3 classes. I also have 2 letters from non-academic ECs (physician i was shadowing, and my volunteer contact at one of the places I volunteered at). I had my PS and my 2ndary essays read over by others time and time again, i'm certain that i didn't come off as immature. One issue i've been told is a problem by some and not so much by others is that Cal-States are not held in high regard to the medical school world (at least those outside of CA, and probably to the *better* CA schools as well)

I know california is extremely competitive (moreso than most other places) but I did apply VERY broadly... 31 schools, 8 of which in CA and 23 outside of CA. I am applying to DO schools as well this cycle, however i applied to the DOs a bit later (waiting on aacomas verification).

 

[Food]

It's not his PS or Rec letters - if he's smart enough to get a 36, he's smart enough to do a decent job on those non-academic aspects. I think, OP, that you're having an issue with packaging and presenting yourself in the best way possible. How well did you represent yourself in the AMCAS - did you do your entire application justice? It's as much about showing off as it is about actually doing the activities to begin with. I'd consider hiring an admissions consultant to look over your previous apps - I think this newest MCAT should make a major difference, but if there are any over-looked red flags, a consultant should be able to tell you. I know they are expensive, but I ended up biting the bullet and paying one to help me with my re-app. As a 3rd time re-app, you're already being screened out by certain schools (if you didn't get a secondary from a school, that is probably why). The mistake you made was re-applying the 2nd time without an improved MCAT. This time around though, I honestly think you have a fair application.

 

[dragonfly99]

I agree that the improved MCAT should help. Would not throw in the towel yet.

It may be a problem if your undergrad is not well respected, especially as your GPA is already low for a med school applicant. It's not that B's are bad, but they are kind of bad if you are premed. If your academics are/were a concern for some of the schools, then maybe taking a class or two at a school that's considered "hard" might sway some of the UC's, particularly if it's a class at THEIR school. That's just an idea, though, and I don't know where you live or if that's even possible for you.

Agree with maybe pulling out all the stops in terms of how you are presenting the application, although it may be too late if you already sent in your application. Even if you have, perhaps an admissions consultant could help you strategize about how to present yourself in interviews. It's not that you are necessarily bad, but with med school admissions there isn't much margin for error anywhere in the process.

 

[Food]

How's the cycle going, OP? I'm curious. Mine's pretty disappointing so far, but I guess we still have a month left before real depression will kick in..

 

[ezsanche]

why do you say you have a month left? What is happening in a month?

 

[Food]

Well once you get into November and Dec....if you were an early applicant I think your chances for an interview diminish quite a bit...

 

[amikhchi]

i'm dissappointed so far... no interviews, rejected from 5 schools (one of which was my top choice)... still have 18 schools left but i'm already going down the "lost hope" pathway...

 

[womp]

I have similar stats as you (low GPA, varied but committed ECs) with slightly higher MCAT and have gotten 5 interviews so far, 4 of them OOS. I think there might be something wrong with your recommendation letters at this point. Or perhaps your personal statement has something you really should not have written.

Based on stats alone, you should have a few interviews, even with the low GPA (which isn't as low as mine). And you might still want to be patient for a few more weeks, I just got 2 interviews in the last two days.

 

[calimed214]

i'm dissappointed so far... no interviews, rejected from 5 schools (one of which was my top choice)... still have 18 schools left but i'm already going down the "lost hope" pathway...

My GPA is a tiny bit higher than yours, but not by much (in the 3.5-ish range), my MCAT and EC's are pretty equal with yours, I'm also a CA resident, and I applied late (primary submitted mid-July, but took almost 8 weeks to verify). But I applied really broadly.. to 35 MD and 2 DO.. and I've gotten interviews at 2 MD and 2 DO schools so far.

Maybe you're not applying broadly enough? Your MCAT score is good, which might get your application a bit of a longer look, but it wont fully compensate for a low GPA or put you on par with people who have both a good GPA & MCAT. I honestly think 18 schools is way too few for CA residents like us with "meh" stats. I applied last year to about 21 schools and have to reapply this year because I was waitlisted at a couple places and didn't make the cut. I figure unless you're really strapped for cash, taking the time to apply to a good number of schools is worth the effort if it means not having to reapply again... because even the "safety" schools are crazy competitive.

Can you post your list on here? I hope you're at least widening your range with each application and applying to new schools rather than submitting your app to the same ones over and over?