Still no financial aid package. How to choose schools?

[Pose]

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I still have not received a financial aid package from a single school that's accepted me. A few of them have said they don't release the financial aid packages until early June. How are we supposed to choose a school if we don't know how much we'll be paying? Just assume that we'll pay the full price? What if one school is a bit cheaper, but much lower on your list of where you'd like to attend?

The deadline to choose a school is rapidly approaching, and since I have not heard from my state school yet financial aid is giving me nightmares. $75k- 80k in loans each year...is this the reality that most of us are facing?

 

[darkjedi]

There's still at least a month before you have to make decisions. Many schools haven't even held their second looks yet. Just be patient.

 

[sazerac]

I still have not received a financial aid package from a single school that's accepted me. A few of them have said they don't release the financial aid packages until early June. How are we supposed to choose a school if we don't know how much we'll be paying? Just assume that we'll pay the full price? What if one school is a bit cheaper, but much lower on your list of where you'd like to attend?

The deadline to choose a school is rapidly approaching, and since I have not heard from my state school yet financial aid is giving me nightmares. $75k- 80k in loans each year...is this the reality that most of us are facing?

I find it incredibly ironic that a future physician is bemoaning the fact that they have to make a large financial decision, yet the institutions won't say how much the transaction will actually cost until after the decision has been made.

Now you know what your customers feel like.

 

[compstomper]

I still have not received a financial aid package from a single school that's accepted me. A few of them have said they don't release the financial aid packages until early June. How are we supposed to choose a school if we don't know how much we'll be paying? Just assume that we'll pay the full price? What if one school is a bit cheaper, but much lower on your list of where you'd like to attend?

The deadline to choose a school is rapidly approaching, and since I have not heard from my state school yet financial aid is giving me nightmares. $75k- 80k in loans each year...is this the reality that most of us are facing?

I'm in the same boat as you are. We're both very fortunate to have plenty of choices, and I would suggest that you assume that you would not receive any financial aid info before the May 15th deadline. In my case, I'd have to simply choose the school that I best see myself in. I intend to go to a few second look days, and I suggest you do so as well if you have the time and means to do so.

 

[DokterMom]

I find it incredibly ironic that a future physician is bemoaning the fact that they have to make a large financial decision, yet the institutions won't say how much the transaction will actually cost until after the decision has been made.

Now you know what your customers feel like.

Quoted for emphasis. This is a HUGE problem in our healthcare system.

 

[Pose]

I find it incredibly ironic that a future physician is bemoaning the fact that they have to make a large financial decision, yet the institutions won't say how much the transaction will actually cost until after the decision has been made.

Now you know what your customers feel like.

I already know what my customers feel like because I've been sick and uninsured. I grant you the irony.

 

[sazerac]

And to answer the actual question, yes $80K per year in loans is how a lot of us go to medical school, and yes it is really annoying that many schools don't release financial offers until after the May 15 deadline. I suspect some folks get late offers because the original recipients declined an offer, and the scholarship money had to go somewhere.

Just assume you will pay full price, any scholarship is an unexpected bonus, and if the additional cost is small to go to the school with a better feel / fit, then yeah go for it. A fun thought experiment is to calculate how many more months of attending salary would it take to attend the more attractive school.

 

[Espadaleader]

And to answer the actual question, yes $80K per year in loans is how a lot of us go to medical school, and yes it is really annoying that many schools don't release financial offers until after the May 15 deadline. I suspect some folks get late offers because the original recipients declined an offer, and the scholarship money had to go somewhere.

Just assume you will pay full price, any scholarship is an unexpected bonus, and if the additional cost is small to go to the school with a better feel / fit, then yeah go for it. A fun thought experiment is to calculate how many more months of attending salary would it take to attend the more attractive school.

You're not for real though right? No!!! I already have my financial aid packages from schools... I pray to God that isn't true because medical school is sooooo expensive. How they hell can they do that. So you're just gonna go into the minimum 100k in debt without seeing the package?

 

[Espadaleader]

That messed up my morning. Wow. That's so unfair. You have to do something. I thought all schools would release by the end of April. What kind of hell is this?

I still have not received a financial aid package from a single school that's accepted me. A few of them have said they don't release the financial aid packages until early June. How are we supposed to choose a school if we don't know how much we'll be paying? Just assume that we'll pay the full price? What if one school is a bit cheaper, but much lower on your list of where you'd like to attend?

The deadline to choose a school is rapidly approaching, and since I have not heard from my state school yet financial aid is giving me nightmares. $75k- 80k in loans each year...is this the reality that most of us are facing?

 

[ace12345]

MOST schools with give you your fin aid package prior May 15. All of mine have said they would. If the school you're looking at will not, call them and say you won't be attending without fin. knowledge as this is one of the biggest decisions of your life. They will, I almost guarantee, be receptive to this. Absolutely do not decide without knowing the finances.

 

[ace12345]

I find it incredibly ironic that a future physician is bemoaning the fact that they have to make a large financial decision, yet the institutions won't say how much the transaction will actually cost until after the decision has been made.

Now you know what your customers feel like.

Aside from emergencies, you can absolutely know how much the cost of a given procedure or appointment is before attending. There is nothing wrong with this, just as there is nothing wrong with choosing, yourself, to go in or outside of network for healthcare.

Of course for emergencies, that is not the case, but in few other customer relationships does such a thing even exist. It's not like you show up to a hardware store saying, "I am bleeding out, I need a lawnmower now!" If that were the case, the price dynamics on lawnmowers would change drastically.

I'd like to add though that I like of a lot of your posts on medical school finances in the past. As far as choosing schools without knowing the price, however, that cannot happen.

 

[CarlosDanger]

The way I understand it, many schools have only given out larger recruiting scholarships (like a couple full rides) to their top applicants at this point. The schools I'm looking at just had the deadline to apply for financial aid a couple weeks ago, so I assume I won't hear about those scholarships for a least a couple weeks, maybe longer. One of my deadlines is actually May 1. I'm guessing Espadaleader is one of those people with a bunch of early offers, but most people will probably find out shortly before May 15, or even after.

 

[sazerac]

I can only speak from personal experience, but got a scholarship offer some time in June, long after I had decided on which school I was going to attend, declined my other offers, and already moved to my new city. Why would a school give out free money to a committed student? I can think of a few possibilities:

The school is disorganized. It happens.

The school gave my offer to another student in April, but they got off their #1 wait list school in June, and that student declined the aid. Endowments are legally required to pay out a certain percentage every year, so the endowment had to give the declined scholarship to somebody and they chose me.

The school is conducting some kind of social experiment, and saves some of their scholarships for students who "really want to go there", i.e. they love the school so much they would have gone there even at full price. Okay I really don't believe this one, but it has occurred to me sometimes.


As for the OP, I still say you have to analyze the situation you have right now, it isn't an unwise decision to spend a little extra to go to a school you really really want to attend, and sometimes money really does fall into your lap unexpectedly. But you can't make decisions depending on that kind of lagniappe.

 

[Donald Juan]

There is not a May 15th deadline; the schools have the option of giving you ultimatums if you hold multiple acceptances and keeping your $100 deposit after May 15th. They will not just rescind your acceptance if you hold multiples on this date. You can sit on your acceptances after May 15th and tell schools you are waiting to hear from financial aid from other schools--they may or may not extend the time you have to decide, and they may just send you a bigger scholarship to incentivize you.

 

[Amba]

So you're just gonna go into the minimum 100k in debt without seeing the package?

Most of us (especially if middle class) are looking at much, much more than 100K in debt. ~3x as much, actually.

 

[midnight0il]

At least one of my schools claims to not release financial aid decisions until June. I'm pretty much going to give them an ultimatum as mentioned by another poster. The financial aid process feels even slimier than the admissions process. There's no sense of what criteria they are using to award these scholarships/grants.

 

[nemo123]

You can email the financial aid offices at the schools you're considering and ask for a FA estimate. One of my friends did that and got a rough estimate of her FA package for one of her schools (though some of the others said she had to wait).

 

[Amygdarya]

The financial aid process feels even slimier than the admissions process. There's no sense of what criteria they are using to award these scholarships/grants.

Actually, there is some sense, at least as far as need-based scholarships are concerned (merit-based scholarships, I agree, are a totally different matter). Some of the schools I interviewed at provided pretty specific information in their interview packages: unit loan size and how much of the (need minus unit loan) amount is offered in grants and loans. Basically, that's how I knew I should withdraw from one (otherwise really good) school and hold on to some of the others. It's true that not all schools provide specific information on how they calculate their need-based aid grants/scholarships, but I guess there is no harm in asking their fin aid office.

So in the absence of fin aid packages, my algorithm would go as following:
1. Assume you're not getting any merit scholarships. If you're awarded one at a later date, let this be a nice surprise to you, but I wouldn't base my decision on an expectation to get one.
2. Once you file FAFSA, you know your estimated family contribution. Use this number and any school-specific information you have (size of unit loan, how much need-based aid they give in grants and in loans) to calculate an approximate amount that you'll have to borrow.
Basically, assume the worst case scenario (no merit aid + minimal need-based grants) and go from there.

And, while it may not be clear from my post, I do sympathize with people who have to make their decisions without actual fin aid information.

 

[DokterMom]

Aside from emergencies, you can absolutely know how much the cost of a given procedure or appointment is before attending.

I hate to derail the thread, but this is absolutely incorrect. I always, always ask what the cost to me will be for any medical procedure and never agree to the procedure until I get the number. However, on more occasions than not, I have then received bills over and above the quoted amount -- sometimes as high as 200% more than originally quoted. (They quote $2,000, then bill for $6,000) Really. How can any patient make an informed healthcare decision when they are unable to determine cost with any accuracy, and have no basis to gauge the competence of the treating physician or hospital?

 

[ace12345]

I hate to derail the thread, but this is absolutely incorrect. I always, always ask what the cost to me will be for any medical procedure and never agree to the procedure until I get the number. However, on more occasions than not, I have then received bills over and above the quoted amount -- sometimes as high as 200% more than originally quoted. (They quote $2,000, then bill for $6,000) Really. How can any patient make an informed healthcare decision when they are unable to determine cost with any accuracy, and have no basis to gauge the competence of the treating physician or hospital?

Thank you for sharing. I defer to your judgement as someone that has not encountered such a circumstance. Clearly that presents an impediment to consumer decision making

 

[UImom]

I hate to derail the thread, but this is absolutely incorrect. I always, always ask what the cost to me will be for any medical procedure and never agree to the procedure until I get the number. However, on more occasions than not, I have then received bills over and above the quoted amount -- sometimes as high as 200% more than originally quoted. (They quote $2,000, then bill for $6,000) Really. How can any patient make an informed healthcare decision when they are unable to determine cost with any accuracy, and have no basis to gauge the competence of the treating physician or hospital?

The two issues - what the cost to you will be and what the billed amount is, are completely separate unless you have no coverage at all and are self-pay for all services. Anytime we seek medical care, I know what my obligation will be. If there was an unforeseen accident on my way into town tomorrow for example, I would have a $50 ER co-pay (waived if admitted) and my personal financial responsibility would be limited to my $1700 out of pocket maximum. The amount of care needed can't always be planned prior to the situation. The billed amount would vary depending on services and then reduced by any network discounts before the individual's benefits would apply. Most people can anticipate their personal responsibility by being familiar with their coverage. Between employer plans (private and government), medicare, expanded medicaid, VA benefits, military coverage through Tricare and personal plans there are fewer self-pay these days - although even 1 is too many.

 

[DokterMom]

The two issues - what the cost to you will be and what the billed amount is, are completely separate unless you have no coverage at all and are self-pay for all services.

This was the case -- or for services not covered by insurance.

But even if it's someone else paying, and not me personally, isn't the concept equally valid? We are spending vast sums of someone's money. Shouldn't someone care about making financially sound decisions?

 

[UImom]

This was the case -- or for services not covered by insurance.

But even if it's someone else paying, and not me personally, isn't the concept equally valid? We are spending vast sums of someone's money. Shouldn't someone care about making financially sound decisions?

Absolutely. The issues inherent in having no skin in the game are no one's friend. This directly relates to the OP's issue - the problems with having financial data disclosed timely enabling it to play a role in decisions. The ability to borrow up to the full COA takes the pressure off schools to price competitively. In the race for a seat the student isn't always the discriminating consumer and the people who try to be are swimming against the current. Admissions accountability with respect to giving financial packages shortly after an acceptance should be as dependable as the ability to see how well a class matches into residencies.

 

[EngineerPreMD]

I still have not received a financial aid package from a single school that's accepted me. A few of them have said they don't release the financial aid packages until early June. How are we supposed to choose a school if we don't know how much we'll be paying? Just assume that we'll pay the full price? What if one school is a bit cheaper, but much lower on your list of where you'd like to attend?

The deadline to choose a school is rapidly approaching, and since I have not heard from my state school yet financial aid is giving me nightmares. $75k- 80k in loans each year...is this the reality that most of us are facing?

The loans are scary, right? It really stinks that you're stuck with a decision, but you have acceptances in the bag. You can definitely call schools, but I would wait a bit since you have a month. Draw out the possibilities. Maybe make a spreadsheet and rank schools with and without aid so when you get the info you can make a decision quickly.

On a related note, suppose, hypothetically, that someone has rich parents (income > 200K) who aren't offering help for various, understandable reasons. Let's assume he/she gets no merit aid, loan repayment programs don't exist, and he/she only got into expensive private schools (tuition of 45K+). Would this affect this person's ability to choose certain specialties? For instance, would lower paying specialties such as primary care/peds become difficult to pursue (considering loans can become 400-500K w/ interest in residency)? On the other hand, would a long residency/fellowship be incompatible with loan repayment? Maybe some of you paying full boat can help me out with this question.

 

[sazerac]

The loans are scary, right? It really stinks that you're stuck with a decision, but you have acceptances in the bag. You can definitely call schools, but I would wait a bit since you have a month. Draw out the possibilities. Maybe make a spreadsheet and rank schools with and without aid so when you get the info you can make a decision quickly.

On a related note, suppose, hypothetically, that someone has rich parents (income > 200K) who aren't offering help for various, understandable reasons. Let's assume he/she gets no merit aid, loan repayment programs don't exist, and he/she only got into expensive private schools (tuition of 45K+). Would this affect this person's ability to choose certain specialties? For instance, would lower paying specialties such as primary care/peds become difficult to pursue (considering loans can become 400-500K w/ interest in residency)? On the other hand, would a long residency/fellowship be incompatible with loan repayment? Maybe some of you paying full boat can help me out with this question.

There are various safety valves in federal student loans so that neither the monthly loan payments nor the total length of the loan become onerous. While student loans are a pain, nobody gets sent to the poor house from student loans, no matter how high the principal or interest rate. These are not normal loans from a normal bank like for a house or a car.

 

[Pose]

Good discussion. Thanks everyone. I'm going to wait until a bit closer to May before I start calling schools, and in the meantime try to figure out where I'd be happiest if cost wasn't a factor.

 

[3rdarmageddon]

Does anyone know how likely schools are to give out need-based scholarships/grants to those who demonstrate need? It seems like there's a fair amount of variability between the aid packages of applicants with similar demonstration of need.

 

[midnight0il]

Does anyone know how likely schools are to give out need-based scholarships/grants to those who demonstrate need? It seems like there's a fair amount of variability between the aid packages of applicants with similar demonstration of need.

So far, I've gotten zip from 3 schools. And I got through college with almost full tuition paid by need-based grants. I feel like us normal folk who aren't school's top picks being offered full rides are being screwed. Oh well. I guess massive debt is inescapable.

 

[sazerac]

Does anyone know how likely schools are to give out need-based scholarships/grants to those who demonstrate need? It seems like there's a fair amount of variability between the aid packages of applicants with similar demonstration of need.

The thing about need is, how can you demonstrate any need at all? If you hold an acceptance to medical school, you hold a golden ticket to catapult you to the top 5% of income earners in one of the richest countries on earth.

If anything, the medical schools are demonstrating financial need, and taking a slice of your future income.

You are playing in the big leagues now, and everybody from the medical school to the patients to the hospital administration to Uncle Sam is going to have their hand in your pocket while expressing their financial need. Get used to it.

 

[Gifted Hands]

The loans are scary, right? It really stinks that you're stuck with a decision, but you have acceptances in the bag. You can definitely call schools, but I would wait a bit since you have a month. Draw out the possibilities. Maybe make a spreadsheet and rank schools with and without aid so when you get the info you can make a decision quickly.

On a related note, suppose, hypothetically, that someone has rich parents (income > 200K) who aren't offering help for various, understandable reasons. Let's assume he/she gets no merit aid, loan repayment programs don't exist, and he/she only got into expensive private schools (tuition of 45K+). Would this affect this person's ability to choose certain specialties? For instance, would lower paying specialties such as primary care/peds become difficult to pursue (considering loans can become 400-500K w/ interest in residency)? On the other hand, would a long residency/fellowship be incompatible with loan repayment? Maybe some of you paying full boat can help me out with this question.

For the record, I went to an expensive private school, I come from a middle class family, got no merit scholarship, and had significant undergrad loans (>150k). I still chose to go into pediatrics. There's plenty of ways to pay off your loans no matter what specialty you go into what you love. You make it happen.