-
CycleTrack and SDN are teaming up to make medical school admissions more transparent and accessible! Read the announcement to learn how we’re supporting the future of CycleTrack’s free application-tracking tools .
Stony Brook vs. Downstate
Started by AbstractArt
Get help with your application
Use all the free resources available to you from SDN: articles, guides, expert advising, forums discussions, and school research.
I'll venture it's downstate, but I'm biased because I'm a downstate 4th year. I actually interviewed at both way back when and I chose downstate.
Brooklyn is better than long island. Lots of nice/cool stuff to do and convenient to Manhattan. Just because the school is in East Flatbush doesn't mean you have to live there, or even spend the majority of your time there during the first 2 years.
The block system for the first 2 years at downstate works well. In retrospect the pre-clinical stuff that seems really important when you're an applicant doesn't make a real lot of difference in the long run. Stonybrook might have more/better research opportunities, unless neuroscience is your game.
Our clnical education is excellent and I think the experience of working in a big City hospital builds a confidence and independance which you might not get elsewhere. Great teaching in neurology, renal, urology, general medicine, ID. Excellent EM program. Lots of trauma. Patient population at the main hospitals is mostly carribean or african american. You get some diversity at the VA and affiliates (russian, hispanic, caucasion). Match list this year was impressive and might be superior, depending on your interests.
What's your comfort level with city living? If you're a die hard suburbanite, then you are better off at Stonybrook, regardless of the rest of it.
Brooklyn is better than long island. Lots of nice/cool stuff to do and convenient to Manhattan. Just because the school is in East Flatbush doesn't mean you have to live there, or even spend the majority of your time there during the first 2 years.
The block system for the first 2 years at downstate works well. In retrospect the pre-clinical stuff that seems really important when you're an applicant doesn't make a real lot of difference in the long run. Stonybrook might have more/better research opportunities, unless neuroscience is your game.
Our clnical education is excellent and I think the experience of working in a big City hospital builds a confidence and independance which you might not get elsewhere. Great teaching in neurology, renal, urology, general medicine, ID. Excellent EM program. Lots of trauma. Patient population at the main hospitals is mostly carribean or african american. You get some diversity at the VA and affiliates (russian, hispanic, caucasion). Match list this year was impressive and might be superior, depending on your interests.
What's your comfort level with city living? If you're a die hard suburbanite, then you are better off at Stonybrook, regardless of the rest of it.
aslcom06 said:
Thanks for the reply. Very interesting perspective. I do like research and would like to eventually work in a research/academic setting. I'm from NYC so I'm definately not a die hard suburbanite but I would not mind living in the suburbs.
Advertisement - Members don't see this ad
im also a biased downstate student.
Would echo what my classmate has said. Stonybrook is probably more prestigous bc of research and academics, but downstate has a far better clinical experience. Probably second to none. Plus you dont have to live out in the middle of suffolk county.
Just my 2 cents
Would echo what my classmate has said. Stonybrook is probably more prestigous bc of research and academics, but downstate has a far better clinical experience. Probably second to none. Plus you dont have to live out in the middle of suffolk county.
Just my 2 cents
For heaven's sake, do not use a match list in choosing a school. Match lists are very dependent on the individuals within a class. For example, nobody was interested in pursuing ortho this year in my class, hence no ortho matches this year. You most likely will match wherever your heart desires if you bust your arse in med school.
I'm a fourth year at Stony Brook. I interviewed at Downstate and Stony Brook and I chose SB over Downstate. I made my choice due to liking the atmosphere (the area, the students, the presentation, etc...). They are equivalent schools.
If you have specific questions, I'll gladly answer them.
The two schools have different preclinical set-ups. How do you feel about the integrated curriculum versus a more traditional curriculum? I also have a question. Is the clinical exposure (patient contact, not pathology) in the first and second years equivalent?
I can speak to Downstate, so here goes.
About the block system. Blocks are like head and neck, renal/endocrine, neuro in the first year and Inflammation/Immunology, Heme/Onc... in the second. Each block is about 5+ weeks. First year blocks include the gross anatomy, histology, physiology, biochemistry of the organs. Second year is pathology, microbiology, pharm, pathophysiology. At the end of each block is a test, usually 2 days with a written and a practical component.
What's nice about this is that it gives some integration to the material and allows you to focus on 1 chunk of material at a time. Friends of mine at schools with more traditional curriculums sometimes complained about being bombed with tests in 4 subjects over the course of 2 weeks. We're mostly protected from that stress.
Some topics, most notably embryology and development, are not well suited to division into blocks and are not well taught. I'd also say that the pharm and pathophysiology, though reasonably comprehensive, suffer from being disjointed. Overall the block system is successful.
In the first 2 years we have a class called Essentials of Clinical Medicine (ECM). It teaches history taking, ethics, biostats, humanism, child development, physical diagnosis. Generally 1 day a week for years 1 and 2. The didactic part of this class is honestly the weakest component of our curriculum. Hard to describe but usually just cloyingly bad. But it does do the job and you learn the motions of an H and P.
In the first year you have an experience where you follow around a general practioner type doctor for half a day once a week for basically the whole year. The point is to learn the Personal/social/family history. In second year you do a similar thing with taking a medical history and doing a phyisical exam. There are labs in the different physical exam skills and an observed clinical skills exam. Like I said, it gets the job done.
Now forget everything I just said. Everyone at every medical school learns the same basic science stuff. Everyone learns to do an H and P. Everyone passes Step 1. You learn what actually goes on and start develop your own thing during 3rd year, the sub-I and your more rigorous electives. 😀
About the block system. Blocks are like head and neck, renal/endocrine, neuro in the first year and Inflammation/Immunology, Heme/Onc... in the second. Each block is about 5+ weeks. First year blocks include the gross anatomy, histology, physiology, biochemistry of the organs. Second year is pathology, microbiology, pharm, pathophysiology. At the end of each block is a test, usually 2 days with a written and a practical component.
What's nice about this is that it gives some integration to the material and allows you to focus on 1 chunk of material at a time. Friends of mine at schools with more traditional curriculums sometimes complained about being bombed with tests in 4 subjects over the course of 2 weeks. We're mostly protected from that stress.
Some topics, most notably embryology and development, are not well suited to division into blocks and are not well taught. I'd also say that the pharm and pathophysiology, though reasonably comprehensive, suffer from being disjointed. Overall the block system is successful.
In the first 2 years we have a class called Essentials of Clinical Medicine (ECM). It teaches history taking, ethics, biostats, humanism, child development, physical diagnosis. Generally 1 day a week for years 1 and 2. The didactic part of this class is honestly the weakest component of our curriculum. Hard to describe but usually just cloyingly bad. But it does do the job and you learn the motions of an H and P.
In the first year you have an experience where you follow around a general practioner type doctor for half a day once a week for basically the whole year. The point is to learn the Personal/social/family history. In second year you do a similar thing with taking a medical history and doing a phyisical exam. There are labs in the different physical exam skills and an observed clinical skills exam. Like I said, it gets the job done.
Now forget everything I just said. Everyone at every medical school learns the same basic science stuff. Everyone learns to do an H and P. Everyone passes Step 1. You learn what actually goes on and start develop your own thing during 3rd year, the sub-I and your more rigorous electives. 😀
For Downsaters: Do you take shelf exams?
For Stony Brookers: How does the shelf exams factor into the final grades for the class?
For Stony Brookers: How does the shelf exams factor into the final grades for the class?
One vote pro-SB here.
I'm a first year and actually DIDN'T choose to seek admissions at Downstate.
I like the SB environment. Not NYC - just what I was aiming for. So some folks hate how "rural" it is here, but there are trains and highways if you need to get away.
Not much into the prestige thing so that's a push. The Downstate clinical experience is thing of legend - I don't know (and no one really can unless they've rotated through both). But the rumor here at SB is that at the university hospital the nurses are VERY protective of patients and it is tough to get procedural experience. NUMC, however, is rumored to be a free-for-all, so I guess it depends. Maybe daisygirl can offer some true insight there.
I should point out that you can often seek out more experience that is offered through traditional routes. For example, in my first year class, one of the students is doing weekly neuro clinic with an attending, and I have been in the ORs for maybe 15 or so weeks, shadowing anesthesiologists (no jokes please), and I've done IVs, intubations, and LMAs as a first year.
Of course I'm biased, but our research is nuts. Brookhaven and Cold Spring? Top shelf - google 'em if ya need.
Abstract- we do shelf for the first year courses. They are of middling importance. Our physiology grade was actually 15% shelf, which is ******ed because we've had no pharm and no path, but the course was a bit of a wreck as it was. In a couple of other courses, it was for bonus credit only - there were a few open containers in those.
Good luck with which ever you choose.
dc
I'm a first year and actually DIDN'T choose to seek admissions at Downstate.
I like the SB environment. Not NYC - just what I was aiming for. So some folks hate how "rural" it is here, but there are trains and highways if you need to get away.
Not much into the prestige thing so that's a push. The Downstate clinical experience is thing of legend - I don't know (and no one really can unless they've rotated through both). But the rumor here at SB is that at the university hospital the nurses are VERY protective of patients and it is tough to get procedural experience. NUMC, however, is rumored to be a free-for-all, so I guess it depends. Maybe daisygirl can offer some true insight there.
I should point out that you can often seek out more experience that is offered through traditional routes. For example, in my first year class, one of the students is doing weekly neuro clinic with an attending, and I have been in the ORs for maybe 15 or so weeks, shadowing anesthesiologists (no jokes please), and I've done IVs, intubations, and LMAs as a first year.
Of course I'm biased, but our research is nuts. Brookhaven and Cold Spring? Top shelf - google 'em if ya need.
Abstract- we do shelf for the first year courses. They are of middling importance. Our physiology grade was actually 15% shelf, which is ******ed because we've had no pharm and no path, but the course was a bit of a wreck as it was. In a couple of other courses, it was for bonus credit only - there were a few open containers in those.
Good luck with which ever you choose.
dc
There is no lack of being able to do procedures at Stony Brook. You can do as many as your heart desires. All that is required is that you show enthusiasm and let it be known to those who you work with. Yes, the nurses are protective over their patients, however, if you treat them with respect they will not intefere with your learning experiences. However, if you treat them badly, they will return the favor. The only exception to this would be the ob-gyn service. Quite a few of those nurses are simply toxic. You just cannot win everyone over. Lastly, it's not the nurses who decide whether you'll do a procedure, it is your team (residents/attendings).
I cannot comment on the shelf situation since the curriculum has undergone huge changes since I've been there. We did have a few shelves here and there during first year- most of them were elective and those that were mandatory were not used to calculate our grade.
I am quite surprised to hear that physiology was a "wreck". That course was done very well (with exception to the pulmonary and cardiac components) due to Dr. Cameron being so phenomenal.
Stony Brook is a great school, and I've been overall very happy here. Yes, there are things that I feel need improvement, but hey it would be like that anywhere. I'm staying here for my surgical residency and I'm quite happy about that since I once again chose to be here (meaning I ranked SB in my top two).
To the OP- Downstate and Stony Brook are similar in caliber. I recommend choosing between them by determining where you'd think you will fit in better. Don't obsess about ******ed things like match lists and supposed superiority during the clinical years. Both schools will prepare you to be a doctor, and I highly doubt that one would do a better job than the other.
I cannot comment on the shelf situation since the curriculum has undergone huge changes since I've been there. We did have a few shelves here and there during first year- most of them were elective and those that were mandatory were not used to calculate our grade.
I am quite surprised to hear that physiology was a "wreck". That course was done very well (with exception to the pulmonary and cardiac components) due to Dr. Cameron being so phenomenal.
Stony Brook is a great school, and I've been overall very happy here. Yes, there are things that I feel need improvement, but hey it would be like that anywhere. I'm staying here for my surgical residency and I'm quite happy about that since I once again chose to be here (meaning I ranked SB in my top two).
To the OP- Downstate and Stony Brook are similar in caliber. I recommend choosing between them by determining where you'd think you will fit in better. Don't obsess about ******ed things like match lists and supposed superiority during the clinical years. Both schools will prepare you to be a doctor, and I highly doubt that one would do a better job than the other.
bigdan said:
I looked at the academic calendar of SB and it seems as though the exams are held back-to-back for first year classes. The finals week at SB has six exams scheduled within four days. This seems really difficult. How do you (and your classmates) feel about the timimg of exams? Is this to weed out students? Should I even be concerned about this?
Six exams during finals week?
Hmmm. I assume you mean during our last week of class for this first year; we have a Pathology Lab final, then the next day a Path Lecture final, then the next day a Foundations final. Those are the only three that I have for the end of this semester, at least as far as I know.
No weeding out that I have seen; I'd say 100 or 101 of 104 go on to be promoted to the next year; that DOES take into account the students that leave on their own volition. I have not heard of a student "failing out" as of yet (knock on wood).
We do get a few study days, as well as old exams/study guides/prep questions to help us prepare. Medical school exams suck - in fact, I'm sitting in a review of our Foundations test right now. No getting around it.
dc
Hmmm. I assume you mean during our last week of class for this first year; we have a Pathology Lab final, then the next day a Path Lecture final, then the next day a Foundations final. Those are the only three that I have for the end of this semester, at least as far as I know.
No weeding out that I have seen; I'd say 100 or 101 of 104 go on to be promoted to the next year; that DOES take into account the students that leave on their own volition. I have not heard of a student "failing out" as of yet (knock on wood).
We do get a few study days, as well as old exams/study guides/prep questions to help us prepare. Medical school exams suck - in fact, I'm sitting in a review of our Foundations test right now. No getting around it.
dc
bigdan said:
Sorry, I wasn't being clear. I meant the first semester. I don't mean to beat a dead horse but it seems like a lot to do in one week. Your imput will be greatly appreciated.
Dec. 18
Exam The Body
(NBME)
09:00 AM-12:30 PM
Dec. 19
Exam Molecules, Genes and Cells
09:00 AM-11:30 AM
Exam The Body
(LAB PORTION OF EXAM)
1:00 PM-4:00 PM
Dec. 20
Exam Molecules, Genes and Cells
(NBME)
09:00 AM-12:30 PM
Exam Foundations of Medical Practice
1:00 PM-5:00 PM
Dec. 21
Exam The Body
09:00 AM-12:00 PM
aslcom06 said:
LOL
My sentiments exactly. This is all that matters. Advertisement - Members don't see this ad
We learn in the ugliest building in the State of New York, hands down.
Futuristic-schumturistic.
Good school though...
dc
Futuristic-schumturistic.
Good school though...
dc
Since my interviews seem like it was a long time ago at each school, can someone tell me about their experience i.e. student life at their respective school. What are your classmates/faculty/administrative staff/student support etc. like? Competitive or not? etc.
AbstractArt said:
Okay please pardon my ignorance (I have not yet started med school) but could somebody please explain to me what a shelf exam is? Thank you!
SalseraDoctora said:
They are mini-boards that take 2h10m to complete published by the NBME purchased by some medical schools as an evaluation tool. They usually have 100 questions. They have different subject matter: like ob/gyn, surgery etc.
SalseraDoctora said:
In addition to what the other poster said, there are also shelf exams for some basic sciences courses like anatomy, biochemistry, pathology etc.
Good question, md.
Bet the folks at Cold Spring would wonder the same thing.
dc
Bet the folks at Cold Spring would wonder the same thing.
dc
amojan99 said:
i believe it only comes up onces per thread.
to answer the question (i've posted on this topic before).
both schools have their own strengths and weaknesses. the choice is really up to you (annoying answer, i know). i'm sure by now you've already made a choice and whatever you choose is a good one. you can't go wrong between these schools.
