Stop telling people to not go into medicine for the money

[LebronManning]

"Don't go into medicine for the money, you will end up depressed"

How many times will that BS have to be said until we realize that it is utterly false?

The argument is that the reason to go into medicine should be for the oh so cardinal desire to help people. Come on. Of course that is a factor, who doesn't enjoy helping people? People go into medicine so they can do that and make a nice living. Now people say that well you'll never make more than about 200-300k in most specialties and with the training required its not really worth it compared to other fields. Well first I ask, name one career that all but guarantees 200-300k with job security once you put in the due amount of training? You can't because that doesn't exist. Finally, plenty of doctors make FAR more. I know IM physicians working hospitalist and PP combo pulling in 500k/yr, Neurologists in PP with other ancillary service pulling up to 1MM. Both in large metros, one in NYC. These are just two anecdotes of several I personally know, there are thousands out there. What's to stop an EM physician or Hospitalist working 10-14 shifts/month, making 250-300k, and having A WHOLE BUSINESS on the side that they can grow.Making money in medicine is similar to making money in any other career and requires BUSINESS ACUMEN. If you don't have that, you will never make serious cash. If you do, well then medicine can be as good a career as any to make serious cash. You literally make all this money and still can sleep at night knowing you are ultimately doing good for society.

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[OrthoTraumaMD]

I think what should be said is don't go into medicine JUST for the money.


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[anbuitachi]

Everyone says do not go for the money... first you dont know where you will land up. If you are competent enough to make it in medicine, you will probably be competent enough to make it in another field. You put a lot of work in to get into medicine in the first place too, a lot of which is not guaranteed. Doctors is one of the few jobs that make 200k and has job stability because the selection processed happened mostly prior to getting hired, which is reversed compared to other jobs. You need to first get good grades, make it to med school, make it to residency (hopefully in w/e you want to do), then possible fellowship, then job. A lot of people end up not getting what they want especially for those premed/meds who looked to get into competitive fields or fellowships.

I say this over and over again. Literally all my friends have good jobs right now not in medicine. I dont know a single unemployed person who graduated with me. If you are good enough to get into med school, chances are your peers who are at your level will be successful too. They will make a ton of money in other fields. CS / Law are the big ones and i think are much better for $$ than medicine. (you will also put in a lot more work in medicine)

And do the math, it's not that great of an investment these days unless you get scholarship for med school to reduce debt.

And yea there are rich doctors. I know surgeons making 5m+ a year. probably not likely to be you though. There are also RNs making 400k+ like i posted in the other thread.

 

[VincentAdultman]

I wouldn't go into medicine just for the money.

I mean, the money's nice and all, it just takes a while to get it.

 

[LucidSplash]

Agreed, the mantra is “don’t do it if your primary motivation is money.” If you don’t actually like the work, this is a miserable field to be in just for the money. The hours are generally long and hard and there are innumerable issues with patient noncompliance/recitivism, government oversight, CYA practices, insurance companies, etc. and your outcomes are partially tied to the willingness of your patients to follow your recommendations. There are better ways to make money in jobs you don’t have to like.

 

[Matthew9Thirtyfive]

CS / Law are the big ones and i think are much better for $$ than medicine. (you will also put in a lot more work in medicine)

If you think you’re putting in more work for less money than in law, you don’t know a representative sample of lawyers.

 

[el_duderino]

The money is not good enough to make up for how soul-sucking the process is.

You're a premed. Don't try to give advice on the merits of medicine as a career path.

 

[Osteoth]

Everyone says do not go for the money... first you dont know where you will land up. If you are competent enough to make it in medicine, you will probably be competent enough to make it in another field. You put a lot of work in to get into medicine in the first place too, a lot of which is not guaranteed. Doctors is one of the few jobs that make 200k and has job stability because the selection processed happened mostly prior to getting hired, which is reversed compared to other jobs. You need to first get good grades, make it to med school, make it to residency (hopefully in w/e you want to do), then possible fellowship, then job. A lot of people end up not getting what they want especially for those premed/meds who looked to get into competitive fields or fellowships.

I say this over and over again. Literally all my friends have good jobs right now not in medicine. I dont know a single unemployed person who graduated with me. If you are good enough to get into med school, chances are your peers who are at your level will be successful too. They will make a ton of money in other fields. CS / Law are the big ones and i think are much better for $$ than medicine. (you will also put in a lot more work in medicine)

And do the math, it's not that great of an investment these days unless you get scholarship for med school to reduce debt.

And yea there are rich doctors. I know surgeons making 5m+ a year. probably not likely to be you though. There are also RNs making 400k+ like i posted in the other thread.

I disagree with the concept of "if you can make it in medicine" fairly significantly. Medicine for the most part just requires brute force memorization whereas many other fields require very different/varied skillsets. Who says that working hard will translate into being able to negotiate a multi-million dollar deal or write a fluent and flexible code? I wouldn't always bet on it.

I wouldn't go into medicine just for the money.

I mean, the money's nice and all, it just takes a while to get it.

This. It's not just about the money, it's the time-value of money. I'm in my late 20's and most of my friends are making ~100k with no debt and no kids. They're enjoying their lives, going on vacations and having fun while I'm wondering whether I should buy a new pair of boots for the winter or safe some money.

Though we are often considered the more "successful" ones, it often does not feel like it.

If you think you’re putting in more work for less money than in law, you don’t know a representative sample of lawyers.

Yeah lawyers work as much for way less money, though they don't have residency which is nice.

The money is not good enough to make up for how soul-sucking the process is.

You're a premed. Don't try to give advice on the merits of medicine as a career path.

Whats with people on this board and ad hominems? Obviously its more nuanced of a question than that or else there wouldn't be so many opinions on it.

 

[HumbledHuman]

Some do; but I hope most pursue medicine with other priorities in mind. Either way if ppl are competent and able to provide adequate care, the end justifies the means.

 

[VA Hopeful Dr]

Whats with people on this board and ad hominems? Obviously its more nuanced of a question than that or else there wouldn't be so many opinions on it.

What's with pre-meds telling residents and attending physicians, you know actual doctors, that our approach to the field is incorrect?

No one is saying that the money doesn't factor into things, I would wager very few of us would still be doctors if the pay was equivalent to a high-school teacher. But we've all seen people who very obviously went into it just for the money and are now miserable. It is a very demanding, very often thankless job, and if you're doing it just for the money the odds are but you will be miserable. The money should be a nice perk of a job you already enjoy for its own sake.

 

[VincentAdultman]

I disagree with the concept of "if you can make it in medicine" fairly significantly. Medicine for the most part just requires brute force memorization whereas many other fields require very different/varied skillsets. Who says that working hard will translate into being able to negotiate a multi-million dollar deal or write a fluent and flexible code? I wouldn't always bet on it.



This. It's not just about the money, it's the time-value of money. I'm in my late 20's and most of my friends are making ~100k with no debt and no kids. They're enjoying their lives, going on vacations and having fun while I'm wondering whether I should buy a new pair of boots for the winter or safe some money.

Though we are often considered the more "successful" ones, it often does not feel like it.



Yeah lawyers work as much for way less money, though they don't have residency which is nice.



Whats with people on this board and ad hominems? Obviously its more nuanced of a question than that or else there wouldn't be so many opinions on it.

First medicine requires quite a bit more than "brute force memorization." I mean come on.

Second that's not an ad hom. What possible insight does a premed have concerning job satisfaction in medicine?

 

[imtheman25]

Given how much encroachment there is in medicine, you can kiss a solid salary/job stability good bye. I would not be surprised if physicians got paid >200k+ and were actually unemployed in the near future.

Everyone (Naturopaths, RNs, PA, PharmD, etc) wants to be a doctor but no one wants to go to medical school

 

[NontradCA]

Only people with money say things like “money is the root of all evil.” And it “doesn’t buy happiness.”

Most physicians and med students come from upper middle class to upper class families. When they say don’t go to medical school for the money, they’re operating from a point where there are a ton of options.

Medicine is the easiest way to have guaranteed top 10% income. Don’t let anyone fool you. There are a lot worse things you can do with your life, and there are a lot of people struggling with jobs that they hate.

But what it all comes down to is a narcissistic “my job is so holy” defense of the fact that you have to take care of poor, sick people for a living.

 

[NontradCA]

Given how much encroachment there is in medicine, you can kiss a solid salary/job stability good bye. I would not be surprised if physicians got paid >200k+ and were actually unemployed in the near future.

Everyone (Naturopaths, RNs, PA, PharmD, etc) wants to be a doctor but no one wants to go to medical school

You not banned yet?

 

[Neopolymath]

As a non-trad, I get a chuckle when I hear old, disgruntled docs irl and posters on here say, "I would just do business/IB/CS" like their ability to be a competent but not great physician means that they could just brute force their way into 300k "in business." First of all, wtf does that vague phrase even mean? Secondly, as someone with that background, these people don't understand that merit/memorizing things isn't what gets you into upper management. They would be in for a rude awaking after getting passed up for a promotion they might actually deserve. The main difference between medicine and business is that in both you know you have to wait for your hard work to pay off later, but in only one can Edward from inside sales screw you and ruin your career trajectory. People who know nothing of business are the ones saying medicine is not good for money because they don't know it's not a meritocracy like medicine. I pass some tests and no one can deny me 200k at the least.

 

[FrkyBgStok]

I don’t disagree with your guys’ arguments but I think it is incomplete. I agree that nothing will make you at least $200k per year and in business that is incredibly rare and for the executives who put in the time. The problem is when people say “omg ortho is $500k per year, now it is my dream job.” Then The eventually realize they hate what the job actually entails and are miserable. My wife is much smarter than I am, but she doesn’t have the medicine brain, she has the business brain. If she chose medicine for money, she would hate her life right now. If I chose a surgical specialty for money I would hate my life right now.

You can make money in medicine, but if it is your only reason to go into medicine, you may be disappointed.

 

[Matthew9Thirtyfive]

Yeah lawyers work as much for way less money, though they don't have residency which is nice.

True. Partnership track at BigLaw sucks though. 100 hour weeks e’ry week. The pay is better than residency, but it can last 6-7 years.

 

[VincentAdultman]

Only people with money say things like “money is the root of all evil.” And it “doesn’t buy happiness.”

Most physicians and med students come from upper middle class to upper class families. When they say don’t go to medical school for the money, they’re operating from a point where there are a ton of options.

Medicine is the easiest way to have guaranteed top 10% income. Don’t let anyone fool you. There are a lot worse things you can do with your life, and there are a lot of people struggling with jobs that they hate.

But what it all comes down to is a narcissistic “my job is so holy” defense of the fact that you have to take care of poor, sick people for a living.

It's not that it's "holy" it's just that the time requirements and aggravations make it pretty miserable if you don't enjoy medicine.

 

[NontradCA]

@Pompacil

Enjoy medicine? Back to the narcissist theme, it’s a job. Literally everyone knows the time requirements going in. Very little know what they’re in for when they’re actually in practice. It’s hilarious in itself that the vast majority of medical students think they’re going to be doing what they “love” and it’s a “dream”.

 

[VincentAdultman]

@Pompacil

Back to the narcissist theme, it’s a job. It’s hilarious in itself that the vast majority of medical students think they’re going to be doing what they “love” and it’s a “dream”

I mean, it was, literally, my dream to do what it is that I'm currently doing. It has its pain s in the asses at times but I'm doing what I "love" and it was my "dream." I can't imagine doing anything else and if that makes me a narcissist I guess I'll own that.

If you're smart, talented and driven enough to make it into medical school (which is not easy, so I guess "easiest path" is relative) then chances are you're smart, talented, and driven enough to be successful and make a lot of money in another field. But the ridiculous time and money commitment it takes to get to that point isn't worth it if you don't enjoy it. It's just not.

 

[NontradCA]

First medicine requires quite a bit more than "brute force memorization." I mean come on.

Second that's not an ad hom. What possible insight does a premed have concerning job satisfaction in medicine?

While I do agree that being a good physician requires more than brute force memorization, medical school does not. So your point is moot considering most everyone graduating medical school somehow become successful physicians.

 

[NontradCA]

I mean, it was, literally, my dream to do what it is that I'm currently doing. It has its pain s in the asses at times but I'm doing what I "love" and it was my "dream." I can't imagine doing anything else and if that makes me a narcissist I guess I'll own that.

If you're smart, talented and driven enough to make it into medical school (which is not easy, so I guess "easiest path" is relative) then chances are you're smart, talented, and driven enough to be successful and make a lot of money in another field. But the ridiculous time and money commitment it takes to get to that point isn't worth it if you don't enjoy it. It's just not.

That doesn’t make you a narcissist. Expecting that everyone have the same “dream” mentality as you most certainly does.

To your second point, I completely disagree.

 

[VincentAdultman]

While I do agree that being a good physician requires more than brute force memorization, medical school does not. So your point is moot considering most everyone graduating medical school somehow become successful physicians.

Med school past second year is more than just memorization.

 

[evilbooyaa]

While I do agree that being a good physician requires more than brute force memorization, medical school does not. So your point is moot considering most everyone graduating medical school somehow become successful physicians.

Are you even in clinical rotations yet? There is much more to medical school (especially the last 2 years) than brute force memorization.

Even in the preclinical years, if you truly understand certain processes you won't have to brute force memorize them the way you have to, in say anatomy lab.

 

[VincentAdultman]

That doesn’t make you a narcissist. Expecting that everyone have the same “dream” mentality as you most certainly does.

To your second point, I completely disagree.

If you think four years of med school plus 3-5 years of residency plus at least one year of fellowship plus the debt that accrues during that time makes doing medicine worth it if your miserable then cool. I don't have much else to offer.

 

[NontradCA]

Are you even in clinical rotations yet? There is much more to medical school (especially the last 2 years) than brute force memorization.

Even in the preclinical years, if you truly understand certain processes you won't have to brute force memorize them the way you have to, in say anatomy lab.

Sure, you have to be able to apply what you’ve learned. But I’d argue most anyone can do this. What most can’t do is pass or more importantly, do well on Step 1 and 2. This largely, for better or worse, is the measure of success for medical school.

 

[NontradCA]

If you think four years of med school plus 3-5 years of residency plus at least one year of fellowship plus the debt that accrues during that time makes doing medicine worth it if your miserable then cool. I don't have much else to offer.

There seems to be a leap you’re making. You’re working under the assumption that if you go into medicine for the money you’ll be miserable. I’m saying being a doctor is not a miserable job.

 

[Goro]

There seems to be a leap you’re making. You’re working under the assumption that if you go into medicine for the money you’ll be miserable. I’m saying being a doctor is not a miserable job.

The point the actual doctors are making is that you're not a doctor yet, and they've been under fire while you haven't. AND if you go into medicine for the money ONLY you'll be miserable.

Wanting to make bank is simply the baseline for all entering this field, and there has to be more to it than that.

 

[Neopolymath]

I'm pretty certain that NontradCA is a resident at this point. I remember him posting years ago as a medical student.

 

[NontradCA]

The point the actual doctors are making is that you're not a doctor yet, and they've been under fire while you haven't. AND if you go into medicine for the money ONLY you'll be miserable.

Wanting to make bank is simply the baseline for all entering this field, and there has to be more to it than that.

No, there doesn’t have to be more than that. You just have to look at the competitiveness of the fields to income generated ratio to bolster my argument.

It doesn’t matter if I’m not a doctor yet. I’m not speaking on matters I don’t have first hand information of. You on the other hand.....

I’m a fourth year. Not that it matters much. If were using this logic then the residents above can’t really have their input because they’re not attendings and haven’t seen the process all the way through. And Goro should certainly not be posting.

 

[VincentAdultman]

No, there doesn’t have to be more than that. You just have to look at the competitiveness of the fields to income generated ratio to bolster my argument.
.

I would strongly suggest that there should be more to going into a competitive field than money. You're going to have a bad time if you really think that.

As an attending in a competitive surgical subspecialty I think I have some insight into this.

 

[Goro]

No, there doesn’t have to be more than that. You just have to look at the competitiveness of the fields to income generated ratio to bolster my argument.

It doesn’t matter if I’m not a doctor yet. I’m not speaking on matters I don’t have first hand information of. You on the other hand.....

I’m a fourth year. Not that it matters much. If were using this logic then the residents above can’t really have their input because they’re not attendings and haven’t seen the process all the way through. And Goro should certainly not be posting.

I'm pointing out what your senior colleagues (which include residents) have already done...you're not a doctor yet and you don't know what it's like in the field. My status as a non-clinician is irrelevant, what I'm trying to do is get you to listen to them.

 

[NontradCA]

I would strongly suggest that there should be more to going into a competitive field than money. You're going to have a bad time if you really think that.

As an attending in a competitive surgical subspecialty I think I have some insight into this.

Really? So you’re able to gauge the people having a bad time’s motivation for getting into medicine? They tell you “I came into ortho for the money and I made a mistake.”?

 

[VincentAdultman]

Really? So you’re able to gauge the people having a bad time’s motivation for getting into medicine? They tell you “I came into ortho for the money and I made a mistake.”?

It doesn't take a rocket surgeon to know how people would feel about working 60-80 hours a week, taking call, dealing with insurance companies, difficult patients, and surgical complications whether your own, your partners, or they guy accords town....if they don't actually LIKE to operate.

 

[mcloaf]

Man where would I be without Australian premeds to keep me informed about my financial situation

 

[LebronManning]

Man where would I be without Australian premeds to keep me informed about my financial situation

Feel free to PM me if you want to here various ways physicians are making big money through small business in the US. Sure, I’m just a pre med for another year, but that doesn’t mean I can’t have insight into ways to make money when I’ve seen it all my life. It’s not like I’m here trying to argue actual medicine.

 

[NontradCA]

It doesn't take a rocket surgeon to know how people would feel about working 60-80 hours a week, taking call, dealing with insurance companies, difficult patients, and surgical complications whether your own, your partners, or they guy accords town....if they don't actually LIKE to operate.

I’m not too sure about that. I’d say there are a lot of medical students who could do ortho and not be miserable. Much more than there are residency slots. If money was my only motivator, that’d certainly be the field I’d choose.

If were talking about “regular” people, if you asked how’d they’d feel about doing that if it means they make 500k I think a very big proportion would want to sign up.

 

[LucidSplash]

Really? So you’re able to gauge the people having a bad time’s motivation for getting into medicine? They tell you “I came into ortho for the money and I made a mistake.”?

No, he’s saying that money eventually won’t be enough motivation. Medicine is a field with high burnout rate for a reason. If you go into ortho for the money but don’t like Surgery/orthopedic pathology, then it will really start to wear on you when you have patients with complications (infected hardware, nonunion, non-compliance with weight bearing and PT instructions to name a few). Remember you’re not getting paid extra to take care of those complications during the global period. So if you are only in it for the money, the resentment starts to build quickly if you have to deal with that stuff. Again, you seem to be deliberately missing the point most of us are making:

If you choose medicine/a specialty you don’t even like because of the income potential, at some point the money won’t be enough to overcome the downsides of the job.

Tons of doctors burnout from the “job” part of medicine. It really isn’t “just a job.” That’s why there’s a difference between a “job” and a “profession.” It takes more from you than a 9-5 office job, more time, more emotion, more everything. You can’t leave the stuff we deal with on your desk at the end of every day and forget about it once you go home. There will be complications that stick with you, treatments that will have adverse reactions and you’ll question your decision to give them, deaths. You’ll miss family dinners, weekend events, and other significant events in the lives of your loved ones. It certainly isn’t the ONLY profession with high personal costs, but it certainly isn’t “just a job” and the money isn’t enough for most people to make them keep doing it if they burnout.

 

[NontradCA]

No, he’s saying that money eventually won’t be enough motivation. Medicine is a field with high burnout rate for a reason. If you go into ortho for the money but don’t like Surgery/orthopedic pathology, then it will really start to wear on you when you have patients with complications (infected hardware, nonunion, non-compliance with weight bearing and PT instructions to name a few). Remember you’re not getting paid extra to take care of those complications during the global period. So if you are only in it for the money, the resentment starts to build quickly if you have to deal with that stuff. Again, you seem to be deliberately missing the point most of us are making:

If you choose medicine/a specialty you don’t even like because of the income potential, at some point the money won’t be enough to overcome the downsides of the job.

Tons of doctors burnout from the “job” part of medicine. It really isn’t “just a job.” That’s why there’s a difference between a “job” and a “profession.” It takes more from you than a 9-5 office job, more time, more emotion, more everything. You can’t leave the stuff we deal with on your desk at the end of every day and forget about it once you go home. There will be complications that stick with you, treatments that will have adverse reactions and you’ll question your decision to give them, deaths. You’ll miss family dinners, weekend events, and other significant events in the lives of your loved ones. It certainly isn’t the ONLY profession with high personal costs, but it certainly isn’t “just a job” and the money isn’t enough for most people to make them keep doing it if they burnout.

I kind of see what you’re saying. But, my point is there are a lot of harder jobs than medicine (measured as burnout rates)that pay significantly less.

 

[LebronManning]

If you think four years of med school plus 3-5 years of residency plus at least one year of fellowship plus the debt that accrues during that time makes doing medicine worth it if your miserable then cool. I don't have much else to offer.

It doesn't have to be 6-7 years post med school. See, you're a surgeon, I think this is why we disagree. You are not one of the people that went into medicine for the money, but you cannot denigrate those that do just because you didn't. Surgeons can't be in it for the money in this day and age where hospitalists and anesthesiologists are making as much as a lot of surgeons. In addition, the increased time in residency leads to a far lesser opportunity cost. I respect the hell out of surgeons for this reason, I think it would be very hard to go into surgery if money was your primary factor. Primary care/OP specialties are much different. IM/FM physicians can make 300k as hospitalist after 3 years residency, and more if they open up a PP combo. Same with many others such as Neuro, Anesthesia Pain, etc.

 

[NontradCA]

You are not one of the people that went into medicine for the money, but you cannot denigrate those that do just because you didn't. .

Money plays an important factor in everyone’s decision to pursue medicine and subsequent specialties. Even this guy.

 

[LebronManning]

Money plays an important factor in everyone’s decision to pursue medicine and subsequent specialties. Even this guy.

Of course, but there's a scale. For example, many docs including most of those in my family went in 60-80% for the money, and maybe 20-40% to help people. This guy maybe one of the few noble people who did have more of a desire to help people than make money. The money simply did not discourage him, but of course he would not become a surgeon for 50k/yr. Sorry to put words in your mouth Pompacil but I think its a fair assumption.

 

[neoevolution]

I don’t disagree with your guys’ arguments but I think it is incomplete. I agree that nothing will make you at least $200k per year and in business that is incredibly rare and for the executives who put in the time. The problem is when people say “omg ortho is $500k per year, now it is my dream job.” Then The eventually realize they hate what the job actually entails and are miserable. My wife is much smarter than I am, but she doesn’t have the medicine brain, she has the business brain. If she chose medicine for money, she would hate her life right now. If I chose a surgical specialty for money I would hate my life right now.

You can make money in medicine, but if it is your only reason to go into medicine, you may be disappointed.

Yeah, on SDN the general opinion is that the average US MD could land a one of those business jobs because of their abilities, but it's definitely an overestimation. The income ceiling might be a lot higher in business and law, but the floor is also really low. The top salaries also usually come with crazy hours, and most MDs can make well over their field's median if they are willing to keep cranking out 80hr weeks after residency. The average US MD grad would probably take a pay hit going into business/law.

New Harvard MBA grads, who typically have several years of professional work experience after college and got into the top business school in the country, typically start off at median salaries in the $150-200k range. You could do med school and EM residency in a similar number of years, be behind considerably in net worth, but start off making double that salary your first year. Spend a few more year and do radiology, and you can make triple that.

Those high paying law firm jobs are also tough to land even for people coming from top law schools, and you can't guarantee you'll do that well in your class. Even if you do, plenty of people don't make it to partner.

 

[NontradCA]

Of course, but there's a scale. For example, many docs including most of those in my family went in 60-80% for the money, and maybe 20-40% to help people. This guy maybe one of the few noble people who did have more of a desire to help people than make money. The money simply did not discourage him, but of course he would not become a surgeon for 50k/yr. Sorry to put words in your mouth Pompacil but I think its a fair assumption.

I’d say that the vast majority of doctors care more about helping people than their bottom line. I do think that income potential will become increasingly more important to incoming medical students given the continual loss of status of physicians.

 

[VincentAdultman]

Of course, but there's a scale. For example, many docs including most of those in my family went in 60-80% for the money, and maybe 20-40% to help people. This guy maybe one of the few noble people who did have more of a desire to help people than make money. The money simply did not discourage him, but of course he would not become a surgeon for 50k/yr. Sorry to put words in your mouth Pompacil but I think its a fair assumption.

I don't think anyone is saying that money isn't a factor. But it shouldn't be the only one.

 

[Brahnold Bloodaxe]

Agreed, the mantra is “don’t do it if your primary motivation is money.” If you don’t actually like the work, this is a miserable field to be in just for the money. The hours are generally long and hard and there are innumerable issues with patient noncompliance/recitivism, government oversight, CYA practices, insurance companies, etc. and your outcomes are partially tied to the willingness of your patients to follow your recommendations. There are better ways to make money in jobs you don’t have to like.

Bruh, it's a job. By definition a job is something you do primarily for the money. If you did it primarily for non-monetary reasons it'd be called something else.

How's this for maximum cynicism: if you're doing medicine primarily for the money, you won't really care about patient noncompliance, outcomes and CYA practices because at the end of the day all you're really looking at is that paycheck. Even in the new MACRA-world where compensation is tied to outcomes, there is just about nothing doctors can do to affect outcomes which require patient-compliance, so the ticket punching doc who doesn't give a f will make just as much as the bleeding heart who runs himself to an early grave trying to convince the lifelong smoker with a fried chicken habit to change his ways.

There are 3 things to worry about in medicine: supply, demand, and reimbursement. Everything else is noise.

 

[GypsyHummus]

I mean, what else are u gonna do with a useless Biology degree? Pharmacy?

 

[LucidSplash]

Bruh, it's a job. By definition a job is something you do primarily for the money. If you did it primarily for non-monetary reasons it'd be called something else.

How's this for maximum cynicism: if you're doing medicine primarily for the money, you won't really care about patient noncompliance, outcomes and CYA practices because at the end of the day all you're really looking at is that paycheck. Even in the new MACRA-world where compensation is tied to outcomes, there is just about nothing doctors can do to affect outcomes which require patient-compliance, so the ticket punching doc who doesn't give a f will make just as much as the bleeding heart who runs himself to an early grave trying to convince the lifelong smoker with a fried chicken habit to change his ways.

There are 3 things to worry about in medicine: supply, demand, and reimbursement. Everything else is noise.

I know a lot of people who had that perspective (just a job) as Med students before going on to residency/attending-hood. Perhaps there are a few who keep the same perspective but no one I know has. I can’t explain it any better than I have above. The fact that the only people arguing the “just a job” theory here are students and premeds but not residents/attendings is significant. I don’t really have anything invested in what you think of the experience of those of us in the “not just a job” camp so it doesn’t bother me if you disagree.

 

[takeurmeds02]

This. It's not just about the money, it's the time-value of money. I'm in my late 20's and most of my friends are making ~100k with no debt and no kids. They're enjoying their lives, going on vacations and having fun while I'm wondering whether I should buy a new pair of boots for the winter or safe some money.

Though we are often considered the more "successful" ones, it often does not feel like it.

No but seriously. I'm chronically broke....like approaching end-stage Insufficient Funds. Especially hard when you had a job before medschool...

Other friends are making plans to go out of the country and fly here and there for the weekend...it's hard.

I can't see how someone would go into medicine (at least physician track) with the primary focus of money.

 

[LucidSplash]

I mean, what else are u gonna do with a useless Biology degree? Pharmacy?

Well, mine was in biochemistry/molecular bio. I had a job in preclinical toxicology for 3 years before going back to Med school. There are plenty of entry level jobs in biotech looking for people with a science degree background.