Stuck between MD and PhD, advice?

[InsertUsername]

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Hey everyone,

I am going into my Senior year at a big state school, I have a good GPA (3.89 cum, somewhere around 3.9 for sciences). I came into undergrad wanting to do medicine. But I got interested in research and have been researching in a Bioengineering lab since my freshman year. For a long time I have been planning to go onto a PhD program in BioE. However, recently I have been getting more and more apathetic about my research projects and worried about the state of funding for biomedical researchers. I’ve always been interested in medicine and could see myself really enjoying a career with an MD. However, I don’t really want to take more than 1 gap year so I need to decide soon before graduate school apps are do.

Has anyone else struggled with deciding between an MD and PhD? What helped you make the decision? Any advice for someone stuck in-between careers?

Even if you haven’t struggled with this decision I’d love to hear your input!

 

[SN12357]

Hey everyone,

I am going into my Senior year at a big state school, I have a good GPA (3.89 cum, somewhere around 3.9 for sciences). I came into undergrad wanting to do medicine. But I got interested in research and have been researching in a Bioengineering lab since my freshman year. For a long time I have been planning to go onto a PhD program in BioE. However, recently I have been getting more and more apathetic about my research projects and worried about the state of funding for biomedical researchers. I’ve always been interested in medicine and could see myself really enjoying a career with an MD. However, I don’t really want to take more than 1 gap year so I need to decide soon before graduate school apps are do.

Has anyone else struggled with deciding between an MD and PhD? What helped you make the decision? Any advice for someone stuck in-between careers?

Even if you haven’t struggled with this decision I’d love to hear your input!

...there's always MD/PhD....

 

[theseeker4]

Hey everyone,

I am going into my Senior year at a big state school, I have a good GPA (3.89 cum, somewhere around 3.9 for sciences). I came into undergrad wanting to do medicine. But I got interested in research and have been researching in a Bioengineering lab since my freshman year. For a long time I have been planning to go onto a PhD program in BioE. However, recently I have been getting more and more apathetic about my research projects and worried about the state of funding for biomedical researchers. I’ve always been interested in medicine and could see myself really enjoying a career with an MD. However, I don’t really want to take more than 1 gap year so I need to decide soon before graduate school apps are do.

Has anyone else struggled with deciding between an MD and PhD? What helped you make the decision? Any advice for someone stuck in-between careers?
Even if you haven’t struggled with this decision I’d love to hear your input!

Do you want to treat patients? You can always do research as an MD, even without an MD/PhD, but you can only be a physician with an MD/DO. Is your biggest concern job security? I don't know that I would pursue this path toward becoming a physician if wanting a steady job was my biggest motivation, and it certainly wouldn't be enough to change my overall career goals. You don't really say why you would want to be a physician, and why you would want to be a PhD....

 

[Mr Avante]

Hey everyone,

I am going into my Senior year at a big state school, I have a good GPA (3.89 cum, somewhere around 3.9 for sciences). I came into undergrad wanting to do medicine. But I got interested in research and have been researching in a Bioengineering lab since my freshman year. For a long time I have been planning to go onto a PhD program in BioE. However, recently I have been getting more and more apathetic about my research projects and worried about the state of funding for biomedical researchers. I’ve always been interested in medicine and could see myself really enjoying a career with an MD. However, I don’t really want to take more than 1 gap year so I need to decide soon before graduate school apps are do.

Has anyone else struggled with deciding between an MD and PhD? What helped you make the decision? Any advice for someone stuck in-between careers?

Even if you haven’t struggled with this decision I’d love to hear your input!

You want to do a Phd. After you suck-in the last drop of life the career has to offer, then move onto the MD.

 

[InsertUsername]

@TheSeeker4 I'm happy to provide a little more info. My interest in a PhD essentially draws from a desire to create better drugs/therapeutics for the treatment and prevention of diseases, particularly cancer. I've been re-evaluating my career path because I've been getting more interested in the role of the physician as the interface between the ‘state of the art' biomedical research and the patients who have the disease. I think that it is the bedside application of therapies that interests me more than the benchside creation of the drugs themselves.

Additionally, I think treating patients would be rewarding and exciting. I enjoy interpersonal interactions and one of the things I was most excited about with a PhD would be the mentoring/teaching of new students, which I think I could also find with an MD. Thoughts?

Lastly, I didn't mean to make it seem like job security was the number one reason I was thinking about switching. It's not. But it does play a part in my decision as funding for biomedical research is not that great at the moment.

 

[zeppelinpage4]

@TheSeeker4 I'm happy to provide a little more info. My interest in a PhD essentially draws from a desire to create better drugs/therapeutics for the treatment and prevention of diseases, particularly cancer. I've been re-evaluating my career path because I've been getting more interested in the role of the physician as the interface between the ‘state of the art' biomedical research and the patients who have the disease. I think that it is the bedside application of therapies that interests me more than the benchside creation of the drugs themselves.

Additionally, I think treating patients would be rewarding and exciting. I enjoy interpersonal interactions and one of the things I was most excited about with a PhD would be the mentoring/teaching of new students, which I think I could also find with an MD. Thoughts?

Lastly, I didn't mean to make it seem like job security was the number one reason I was thinking about switching. It's not. But it does play a part in my decision as funding for biomedical research is not that great at the moment.

I haven't pursued a PhD or an MD, so I could be wrong, but, from what I've heard through the grapevine, I think an MD is sufficient if you want to do translational or clinical research (which from your posts it seems like you are getting more interested in that?).

Another thing you can consider, is some med schools let you do get designations in research. A med student can do research their first summer, they can also take a year out for research, and I think there are some scholarships which help you pay off med school loans if you do research after med school.
So, I think there are options to do research, especially translational and clinical, if you just have an MD.

Of course can probably do most any kind of research with just a PhD too, but you probably won't get the patient interaction.

 

[SN12357]

@TheSeeker4 I’m happy to provide a little more info. My interest in a PhD essentially draws from a desire to create better drugs/therapeutics for the treatment and prevention of diseases, particularly cancer. I’ve been re-evaluating my career path because I’ve been getting more interested in the role of the physician as the interface between the ‘state of the art’ biomedical research and the patients who have the disease. I think that it is the bedside application of therapies that interests me more than the benchside creation of the drugs themselves.

Additionally, I think treating patients would be rewarding and exciting. I enjoy interpersonal interactions and one of the things I was most excited about with a PhD would be the mentoring/teaching of new students, which I think I could also find with an MD. Thoughts?

Lastly, I didn’t mean to make it seem like job security was the number one reason I was thinking about switching. It’s not. But it does play a part in my decision as funding for biomedical research is not that great at the moment.

With that description of your interests you most like want an MD or an MD/PhD (or an MD with an additional masters).

 

[nemo123]

Go MD or MD-PhD. Honestly, there are a ton of MDs doing only research these days and not seeing patients at all. I even met an MD who was the director of cancer drug development at a large biotech company and didn't go anywhere near the clinic. On top of that, a postdoc told me once that MDs actually get better funding than PhDs for research (I don't know how true that is, but he must have gotten that info from somewhere). Plus, if you go the PhD route and realize later that you want to see patients, then you're stuck, which won't be the case for the most part if you pursue a MD or MD-PhD.

 

[OCDOCDOCD]

You can do research with an MD. It's not the best route, but you can still get there if you want to. With a PhD all you can do is research. Also, funding for scientific research is dropping after having been stagnant for years, so the situation is becoming dire. A PhD honestly isn't a good career choice these days unless you absolutely have nothing else you want to do. I know people say the same thing about medicine, but the thing they miss is that at least with medicine if you're unhappy you still have a prestigious job with a big paycheck. With a PhD you run the risk of having none of that. Tenure track jobs are hard to find, and even harder to keep thanks to record-breaking poor funding rates.

You sound like you want to do translational research. If so, consider an MD/PhD. It's the best route for translational research and it lets you be a doctor with the strong research background of a PhD. The catch is that it takes 8 years just to get the degree and is extremely competitive. You have the GPA though. If you have at least two years of productive, independent research experience as well, or are willing to take gap years to get it, then I say give it serious consideration.

In short, here's what I recommend:
Want to do research = MD/PhD
Not sure about research or can't get into an MD/PhD program = MD

 

[Gut Shot]

Has anyone else struggled with deciding between an MD and PhD? What helped you make the decision? Any advice for someone stuck in-between careers?

Yeah, I remember that struggle. Here is all you need to know:

In the current funding environment PhD is short for Ph*ckeD.

 

[JohnQuincyAdams]

I've met several PhDs who wished they would have gone for the MD. I haven't met any MDs who wish the opposite. I'm sure there are many in each camp, but that is just my experience.

 

[SpartanWolverine]

In the current funding environment PhD is short for Ph*ckeD.

This. When NIH R01 grants in the top 15% aren't even being funded anymore... It's a hard environment. I know plenty of talented young investigators with no real grant funding and a very difficult track to tenure. Additionally, even FINDING a tenure-track position is next to impossible. And this is knowing grad students/post-docs coming from top private universities in the Boston area.

On the other hand, the demand for MDs is very likely only going to increase.

Plus, I've known few people more miserable than the grad students I've managed a lab with for the last few years

 

[fahimaz7]

I left a PHD program to go to medical school. After 3 years of doing that kind of research, it became clear to me that it's either your calling in life or it's not. If it's not, you should get out while you still can. I'm so much happier being a doctor than I ever was in the lab.

That goes for medical school vs graduate school too.

 

[serendipity007]

I haven't pursued a PhD or an MD, so I could be wrong, but, from what I've heard through the grapevine, I think an MD is sufficient if you want to do translational or clinical research (which from your posts it seems like you are getting more interested in that?).

Another thing you can consider, is some med schools let you do get designations in research. A med student can do research their first summer, they can also take a year out for research, and I think there are some scholarships which help you pay off med school loans if you do research after med school.
So, I think there are options to do research, especially translational and clinical, if you just have an MD.

Of course can probably do most any kind of research with just a PhD too, but you probably won't get the patient interaction.

Can you mention which scholarships are like that? I am very interested in hearing about this.

 

[SN12357]

Can you mention which scholarships are like that? I am very interested in hearing about this.

Look up the NIH loan repayment programs (LRPs). Keep in mind, though, that they are VERY competitive.

 

[serendipity007]

Look up the NIH loan repayment programs (LRPs). Keep in mind, though, that they are VERY competitive.

Thanks! And yeahh I would expect so.

 

[zeppelinpage4]

Can you mention which scholarships are like that? I am very interested in hearing about this.

I haven't researched it too much, but I think the HHMI offers something of that nature, I could be wrong though.

http://www.hhmi.org/programs/med-into-grad-initiative

I do know that there are a lot of summer and year out opportunities also.
http://www.hhmi.org/programs/medical-research-fellows-program/year-long-program

http://www.mskcc.org/education/students/summer-fellowship

http://www.stjude.org/poe

 

[Ebola4Breakfast]

Yeah, I remember that struggle. Here is all you need to know:

In the current funding environment PhD is short for Ph*ckeD.

The above is all you really need to know. I once had someone describe research as a pyramid scheme, and it's probably the most accurate description I've ever heard. Getting into grad school isn't that difficult. Postdoc positions are a dime a dozen. Finding a position beyond that level is where the bottleneck occurs. Vying for tenure track positions becomes a blood bath of competition. This is NOT the environment you want to enter, and I say this as an ex-academic who is now in med school.

 

[serendipity007]

I haven't researched it too much, but I think the HHMI offers something of that nature, I could be wrong though.

http://www.hhmi.org/programs/med-into-grad-initiative

I do know that there are a lot of summer and year out opportunities also.
http://www.hhmi.org/programs/medical-research-fellows-program/year-long-program

http://www.mskcc.org/education/students/summer-fellowship

http://www.stjude.org/poe

Thank you!

 

[CarlosDanger]

yeah, what everyone else said. You should get an MD or MD/Ph.D. You don't need the Ph.D., but I think its pretty helpful for bench scientists, those who do more molecular types of research rather than just clinical research (not that theres anything wrong with clinical research).

If you do decide to get a Ph.D., just plan on working day and night for about 8 years straight and a few Science/Nature/Cell papers if you want to be competitive for a tenure track position. If you want an industry job, you need to make sure you get industry experience early on. I can't tell you how many qualified, Ivy league post-docs say they want an industry job but have a really hard time getting one because they have no industry experience, and don't really understand how the business world works.

Its my understanding that most fellowship programs have big research components built in, and during those research years its fairly simple to get loan repayment. But, the doctors telling me that are Ivy league trained so they could be understating the difficulty.

You can also just apply MD and transfer into your school's MD/Ph.D. program after a year if your still motivated, a lot of people do that. Might as well test the waters first, you won't be too far in debt yet.