Student Loans CA 2013

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Sun8

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I have a younger sibling in a university, so asking for assistance from my parents is not a personal option. That said, the average cost of attendance for the UCSD/UCSF pharmacy program is roughly $53,000.

I personally did not want to add any financial burden on my parents, so I asked for the full amount of loans for P1 ($53,000) w/o cosigning with anyone.

Here's why:

UCSD/UCSF TUITION: ~$36,000/year
LIVING EXPENSES: ~$12,000/year (assuming $1000/month rent)
EXTRA COSTS (phone bills/lab fees/gas/etc): $5000/year

Graduating with >$220,000 is weighing on my mind. Any budgeting suggestions?!?!?! Should I find a part-time job? 😕:scared:
 
Are you really going to get by on only $5000 per year after rent? What do you actually spend now? Did you take into account that you are going to be forced to buy health insurance?

You should certainly intern, if possible, not only or even primarily for the money, but for job experience and leads. If you do this at all, which, frankly, doesn't seem like a great idea.
 
I have a younger sibling in a university, so asking for assistance from my parents is not a personal option. That said, the average cost of attendance for the UCSD/UCSF pharmacy program is roughly $53,000.

I personally did not want to add any financial burden on my parents, so I asked for the full amount of loans for P1 ($53,000) w/o cosigning with anyone.

Here's why:

UCSD/UCSF TUITION: ~$36,000/year
LIVING EXPENSES: ~$12,000/year (assuming $1000/month rent)
EXTRA COSTS (phone bills/lab fees/gas/etc): $5000/year

Graduating with >$220,000 is weighing on my mind. Any budgeting suggestions?!?!?! Should I find a part-time job? 😕:scared:

If saving money is a primary motivation, then honestly, you're better off going out-of-state (as far as Ca schools are concerned).
 
Make it a priority to find an intern job which pays $17-18/hr in CA, if you work enough hours a week (like 12-20) and FT during summers it could ease the burden.

If you go to a rigorous school like UCSD or UCSF I am not sure how much time u would have to work though. I heard UCSF kids work like 4 hours a month or something lol.
 
If saving money is a primary motivation, then honestly, you're better off going out-of-state (as far as Ca schools are concerned).

Out of state fees. Plus, I'm already enrolled into a CA university

Make it a priority to find an intern job which pays $17-18/hr in CA, if you work enough hours a week (like 12-20) and FT during summers it could ease the burden.

If you go to a rigorous school like UCSD or UCSF I am not sure how much time u would have to work though. I heard UCSF kids work like 4 hours a month or something lol.

Thanks for the suggestion, I'll def. look into it!


Are you really going to get by on only $5000 per year after rent? What do you actually spend now? Did you take into account that you are going to be forced to buy health insurance?

You should certainly intern, if possible, not only or even primarily for the money, but for job experience and leads. If you do this at all, which, frankly, doesn't seem like a great idea.

I've already considered the cost of health insurance into my tuition!
 
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I have a younger sibling in a university, so asking for assistance from my parents is not a personal option. That said, the average cost of attendance for the UCSD/UCSF pharmacy program is roughly $53,000.

I personally did not want to add any financial burden on my parents, so I asked for the full amount of loans for P1 ($53,000) w/o cosigning with anyone.

Here's why:

UCSD/UCSF TUITION: ~$36,000/year
LIVING EXPENSES: ~$12,000/year (assuming $1000/month rent)
EXTRA COSTS (phone bills/lab fees/gas/etc): $5000/year

Graduating with >$220,000 is weighing on my mind. Any budgeting suggestions?!?!?! Should I find a part-time job? 😕:scared:

I'd say lean a lot more towards UCSD if your budgeting $5000/year for other costs. SF is not a cheap city to live in, and even worse if you have a car (which I assume you do since you listed gas under that list). Hell, $1000/month for rent is on the low end of the spectrum, and that's considering room mates.

Get a job ASAP, or put it off a year and save right now. I know that internships around any campus usually are in high demand.

The only other advice I can offer is to prepare yourself to be in a huge debt hole upon graduating. It sucks seeing a third of your paycheck going to taxes, another third going to loans, and the final third going to living expenses. Seeing all my friends buying houses/cars and I'm sitting here trying to pay off my loans makes me a sad panda 🙁
 
I calculated the take home pay for a pharmacist who makes $125000 a year ($60 an hour) in California. After all the taxes including state income tax, the take home pay is $76752 a year (61% of $125,000). That is right. Almost 40% of your salary will go to taxes.

http://www.paycheckcity.com/calculator/salary/

I have not even included the cost of healthcare and dental insurance.

You will graduate with at least 225 k in student loan debt. In addition to the interest that is being compounded while you are still in school, you also need to include origination fee (4%+ for grad plus loan).

If you are on the 10 year repayment plan, you will be paying $2580 a month so that is $30960 a year (25 year repayment plan allows you to pay less per month but you will be paying a lot more interest). Since your annual take home pay is $76752, you will have $45792 a year or $3816 a month for living cost. So you are not financially better off than someone who has a BS in computer science. But unlike them, you will burden with a high student loan debt and a dismal job market.
 
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Out of state fees. Plus, I'm already enrolled into a CA university

Some of the out of states will allow you instate tuition after 1 yr. Eg, Ohio state, $40k first yr out of state, then $20k (including student insurance and fees) onward. Rent is $500/mo within walking distance to class. If you intern, you can easily graduate with just $100k in debt from a top 10 school.
 
I calculated the take home pay for a pharmacist who makes $125000 a year ($60 an hour) in California. After all the taxes including state income tax, the take home pay is $76752 a year (61% of $125,000). That is right. Almost 40% of your salary will go to taxes.

http://www.paycheckcity.com/calculator/salary/

I have not even included the cost of healthcare and dental insurance.

You will graduate with at least 225 k in student loan debt. In addition to the interest that is being compounded while you are still in school, you also need to include origination fee (4%+ for grad plus loan).

If you are on the 10 year repayment plan, you will be paying $2580 a month so that is $30960 a year (25 year repayment plan allows you to pay less per month but you will be paying a lot more interest). Since your annual take home pay is $76752, you will have $45792 a year or $3816 a month for living cost. So you are not financially better off than someone who has a BS in computer science. But unlike them, you will burden with a high student loan debt and a dismal job market.

that's running under the assumption that he even gets a job as a pharmacist 6 years from now(possibly 7?) in a state with 10 pharmacy schools
 
Some of the out of states will allow you instate tuition after 1 yr. Eg, Ohio state, $40k first yr out of state, then $20k (including student insurance and fees) onward. Rent is $500/mo within walking distance to class. If you intern, you can easily graduate with just $100k in debt from a top 10 school.


I should probably just state that I'll be attending UCSD as a P1. I was actually going to accept Purdue's acceptance offer a couple months ago, however I was told that I wouldn't be able to claim residency after a year (Tuition is only ~11k a semester!!!!).
 
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I'd say lean a lot more towards UCSD if your budgeting $5000/year for other costs. SF is not a cheap city to live in, and even worse if you have a car (which I assume you do since you listed gas under that list). Hell, $1000/month for rent is on the low end of the spectrum, and that's considering room mates.

Get a job ASAP, or put it off a year and save right now. I know that internships around any campus usually are in high demand.

The only other advice I can offer is to prepare yourself to be in a huge debt hole upon graduating. It sucks seeing a third of your paycheck going to taxes, another third going to loans, and the final third going to living expenses. Seeing all my friends buying houses/cars and I'm sitting here trying to pay off my loans makes me a sad panda 🙁

Thanks for the input. I'm mentally preparing for being in debt, It would just be nice knowing that there are other pharmacy students, out here in CA, who are in the same boat as I am!
 
I calculated the take home pay for a pharmacist who makes $125000 a year ($60 an hour) in California. After all the taxes including state income tax, the take home pay is $76752 a year (61% of $125,000). That is right. Almost 40% of your salary will go to taxes.

http://www.paycheckcity.com/calculator/salary/

I have not even included the cost of healthcare and dental insurance.

You will graduate with at least 225 k in student loan debt. In addition to the interest that is being compounded while you are still in school, you also need to include origination fee (4%+ for grad plus loan).

If you are on the 10 year repayment plan, you will be paying $2580 a month so that is $30960 a year (25 year repayment plan allows you to pay less per month but you will be paying a lot more interest). Since your annual take home pay is $76752, you will have $45792 a year or $3816 a month for living cost. So you are not financially better off than someone who has a BS in computer science. But unlike them, you will burden with a high student loan debt and a dismal job market.

Thank you for the info. However, as of now, assuming what my income will be in the next 4 years isn't what I am most worried about. In fact, whether or not I am "financially better off" than someone with a BS in computer science is the very least of my worries. (If I aimed for financial practicality, then I would've aimed at becoming an engineer!)

I guess what I'm really wondering is, whether or not, graduating with $225k is a "norm" for Pharm students here in CA. Sorry for the confusion. BTW, that link is great, I think I'll "bookmark it"!
 
I guess what I'm really wondering is, whether or not, graduating with $225k is a "norm" for Pharm students here in CA. Sorry for the confusion. BTW, that link is great, I think I'll "bookmark it"!

$225 k for a California school is actually on the low side. The other California schools are all private schools and they are expensive. For example, USC charges 50 k a year so many of their graduates would probably owe 275-300 k. Almost unmanageable on a pharmacist salary.
 
150k-200k loan is normal in CA. I see a lot of new rphs here will have that much, either they give up paying it and just be in debt forever or really live like a pauper trying to pay it off in 3-4 years. I like the later method better. I personally wouldn't commit to a gf if she has 200k loan and try to slack off and just in general be lazy about trying to pay it off LOL.
 
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Get out of state. It's cheaper tuition. Some cases you can get in state tuition after one year. Way cheaper cost of living compared to Cali in most cases.
 
I guess what I'm really wondering is, whether or not, graduating with $225k is a "norm" for Pharm students here in CA. Sorry for the confusion. BTW, that link is great, I think I'll "bookmark it"!

This is pretty normal BUT it is really foolish of you to think that if others are doing it, then it's ok for you too....
 
I have a younger sibling in a university, so asking for assistance from my parents is not a personal option. That said, the average cost of attendance for the UCSD/UCSF pharmacy program is roughly $53,000.

I personally did not want to add any financial burden on my parents, so I asked for the full amount of loans for P1 ($53,000) w/o cosigning with anyone.

Here's why:

UCSD/UCSF TUITION: ~$36,000/year
LIVING EXPENSES: ~$12,000/year (assuming $1000/month rent)
EXTRA COSTS (phone bills/lab fees/gas/etc): $5000/year

Graduating with >$220,000 is weighing on my mind. Any budgeting suggestions?!?!?! Should I find a part-time job? 😕:scared:

Think hard about if you really want to do pharmacy. If so , try to minimize loans but do not worry too hard about them. If you want , get a job to help pay the interest. I am significantly into the $300k range but according to my accountants, student debt is one of the easiest debt forms to deal with. There are so many loopholes at this point in the game it is like a smorgasbord of reduced repayment options and forgiveness etc. We are in a student loan bubble crisis but it hasn't started really tipping against borrowers yet and lenders all still have theit magical golden lenses/blindfolds on.

If you actually desire to pay it off like a normal person, keep it under 200k and be prepared to make some cuts to your spending for a while.

If you know you won't ever pay it off, (ie 250-350k range there are plenty of options for still affording things in life like a house, cars, businesses, etc. Taking 18 month grace period with ibr can allow you to save up a big nest egg too to help toward an exit strategy.

In summary. . If <100-150k no worries. If 200k .. have a plan to make a higher salary or reduced spending following graduation. If 250k+ ... if you want to control your own destiny you are going to have to play creatively on the repayment front.. get an accountant now or in p4 year to help advise you.
 
I calculated the take home pay for a pharmacist who makes $125000 a year ($60 an hour) in California. After all the taxes including state income tax, the take home pay is $76752 a year (61% of $125,000). That is right. Almost 40% of your salary will go to taxes.

http://www.paycheckcity.com/calculator/salary/

I have not even included the cost of healthcare and dental insurance.

You will graduate with at least 225 k in student loan debt. In addition to the interest that is being compounded while you are still in school, you also need to include origination fee (4%+ for grad plus loan).

If you are on the 10 year repayment plan, you will be paying $2580 a month so that is $30960 a year (25 year repayment plan allows you to pay less per month but you will be paying a lot more interest). Since your annual take home pay is $76752, you will have $45792 a year or $3816 a month for living cost. So you are not financially better off than someone who has a BS in computer science. But unlike them, you will burden with a high student loan debt and a dismal job market.

Since I have recently been getting some offers right around that pay level I have been running my own calculations. (Irs.gov)

In a non california state, maximizing your deductions via small business, marriage, interest deductions, I came to a take home of $86,000 or $7200/month net .. loan payments would be ~$30/month for first 18 months and then $1200/month until you jump ship or receive forgiveness. .. so you end up living a lot better than a computer engineer. . Because of ibr delay in tracking income... you can quickly savr enough to buy a house or small business before your current monthly DTI catches up to you.. and still if you just flew holding pattern. . ~$6000/month after taxes and loans is nothing to sneeze at .. if you are smart enough to become a pharmacist you are smart enough to play the loan repayment game. Believe me.. if you don't then go talk to an accountant or 3 and I don't mean h&r block .. after that you can breathe a little easier
 
The problem with your thinking is that you only look at one side of the coin. Yeah you can reduce your tax liability by putting money in your 401 k but guess what? You need to spend money. Money that you don't really have. Yes, getting married helps too but guess what? Your IRB payment is going to go up if she also works. Yes, you can buy a house in the mid west a couple of years after graduation but is it smart for a 26 year old? Your career may not be stable yet. What if you have to move? You can sell the house but most likely you will have to take a hit because most of your payment will be going toward the interest.

I have said this before. Most of what you are saying is just hopeful thinking. Trying to hide your money from the IRS is tax evasion. Graduate first and do it and then get back to us.
 
By the way, you are still using the same accountant who got you in this financial hole in the first place?
 
The problem with your thinking is that you only look at one side of the coin. Yeah you can reduce your tax liability by putting money in your 401 k but guess what? You need to spend money. Money that you don't really have. Yes, getting married helps too but guess what? Your IRB payment is going to go up if she also works. Yes, you can buy a house in the mid west a couple of years after graduation but is it smart for a 26 year old? Your career may not be stable yet. What if you have to move? You can sell the house but most likely you will have to take a hit because most of your payment will be going toward the interest.

I have said this before. Most of what you are saying is just hopeful thinking. Trying to hide your money from the IRS is tax evasion. Graduate first and do it and then get back to us.

1. You already know I am not using or going to use 401k .

2. I am much closer to 30 than 26 and plan to buy a house within the next year at the latest . Hopefully with 30% down, avoiding pmi. If I had to move, I would likely rent it to one of my friends or family or extend the mortgage term from 10 years to 30. Why not keep it as an investment property?

3. Tax evasion is illegal and has nothing to do whatsoever with the topics I just outlined. I am talking about ibr income tracking delay, student interest deductions, and small business ownership.. completely standard stuff.
 
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By the way, you are still using the same accountant who got you in this financial hole in the first place?

I actually could not be more grateful to my accountant. I don't think I would have the options or stability that I have today without the opportunity pharmacy school and student loans gave me to start my company.
 
I actually could not be more grateful to my accountant. I don't think I would have the options or stability that I have today without the opportunity pharmacy school and student loans gave me to start my company.

How DARE you be in debt and happy!
 
He told me that they had good food and free Wifi in Debtor's Prison.

Here come the senior member of the debtor crew! I am still waiting for confettiflyer to jump in and tell us how he is planning to work for a non profit for 10 years so his student loan will be forgiven.
 
Here come the senior member of the debtor crew! I am still waiting for confettiflyer to jump in and tell us how he is planning to work for a non profit for 10 years so his student loan will be forgiven.

You are off your game. You haven't mentioned "you'll never be able to buy a house" even ONCE in this thread. And you haven't been bragging about living with your parents much either. What have you done with the real BM?
 
You are off your game. You haven't mentioned "you'll never be able to buy a house" even ONCE in this thread. And you haven't been bragging about living with your parents much either. What have you done with the real BM?

You are so 3 years ago. Yes, I made some sacrifice and it was the best financial decision I have ever made. My student loans have been fully paid off. I max out my 401 k and Roth every year. I also invest and let my money work for me, not the other way around. I purchased a house last year in a city, not some rural town in Kentucky. Pretty good for someone who is 10 years younger than you huh?

I got here by making some smart financial decisions and of course some sacrifice. I don't need to depend on some gimmick or loopholes or some wishful thinking to be financially secured.
 
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You are so 3 years ago. Yes, I made some sacrifice and it was the best financial decision I have ever made. My student loans have been fully paid off. I max out my 401 k and Roth every year. I also invest and let my money work for me, not the other way around. I purchased a house last year in a city, not some rural town in Kentucky. Pretty good for someone who is 10 years younger than you huh?

I got here by making some smart financial decisions and of course some sacrifice. I don't need to depend on some gimmick or loopholes or some wishful thinking to be financially secured.

Does it warm your heart having donated so much of your hard fought earnings to good old uncle sam? Do you also check the box on your tax return to pay extra out of the goodness of your heart? Well if you don't.. you basically already are anyway by letting the system use you instead of vice versa.

I'd rather have an extra $150,000 in my pocket at the end of the day than have been screwed by the lenders and be "debt free"

Have you ever heard of a corporation or government/nation being debt free? No. http://bit.ly/xlpHEL
 
Looking at it another way. . If an unfortunate circumstance takes place and you become permanently disabled or die, say due to an accident or rare medical condition ... would you rather have paid off all those debts ? Or would you rather have kept your money in your pocket since you won't owe anyway.

There are so many advantages to making minimal student loan payments, it is hard to remember and list them all in one post!

Letting student loan balance carry onward also serves as a form of free disability and life insurance.
 
Does it warm your heart having donated so much of your hard fought earnings to good old uncle sam?

The ones who are paying interest over a 25 year period are "donating" their hard earned money to Uncle Sam. He didn't get much interest from me.

I think you are just a dreamer. First you want to work part-time so your monthly IBR payment will be low but now you want to be PIC?

I'm taking the more conservative track and ultimately pursuing retail PIC as my early to mid career goal
 
The ones who are paying interest over a 25 year period are "donating" their hard earned money to Uncle Sam. He didn't get much interest from me.

I think you are just a dreamer. First you want to work part-time so your monthly IBR payment will be low but now you want to be PIC?

I am planning on alternating my work hours for the first few years to minimize my IBR payments. My first year IBR will be based on a $0 AGI, my second year will be based on my first year's tax return, which I will be working part time a lot of that year , intentionally pick up fewer shifts, paid as a graduate intern, etc. After that all bets are off, I dont even know if I will bring my business income into the US necessarily, or reinvest, ... maybe my business will happen to take losses during my years with highest pharmacist income!

If I became PIC , sure I would pay more for IBR but the AGI increase would more than be offset by earlier retirement, each year of which would net $20,000-$30,000 in loan payment savings.

And as far as paying interest vs principle .. Yes of course I will be paying a lot more interest (probably $100,000 more in interest than you lol) .. but if I followed IBR from start to finish, principle would never be touched. Money is money. I'm sure you get a nice warm feeling when you consider you paid up but it was principle only. But that doesnt make up for cash in your pocket.

The facts are a person who makes a typical pharmacist salary and has 300k of loans or higher will save 100-300k by using IBR and netting a $600-700k forgiveness than if they paid straight up.. .. even if they paid straight out of the gate with a $300k check, would still end up paying more than IBR.. the net difference cant be ignored. All you need is a calculator to find out it is in the hundreds of thousands. It can't be quibbled away by changing AGI, employment hours, marginal income increases, or % paid as interest.

Years during which I was PIC would more than be offset by years of early retirement with 0 or minimal AGI.

I am actually contemplating putting my loans into repayment right now to start the IBR clock.. on a $0 AGI , that is a $0-50 monthly payment, plus interest would capitalize sooner, and capitalized interest can be deducted even if you didn't pay it.

To answer directly to your attempted jibe ... yes I am contemplating vying for PIC .. also I am contemplating only working part time ... either way, I would come out ahead under IBR compared to standard repayment.

If I had 100k in loans, I would be singing a different tune. But when faced with the choice of paying back $200,000 in interest under IBR or $500,000 in interest and principle under standard repayment, this is not even an argument.. Who can argue with the prospect of putting an extra $150,000-200,000 in their pocket?

I also am interested in owning my own pharmacy, depending on how things go in the US in the next 15 years. But you can bet your butt that I wouldnt pay myself a significant salary until after IBR ends. Nor would I hold the pharmacy assets under my name.

Edit: and I will admit this to anyone, I am a risk taker and nonconventional thinker, and I admit I play devil's advocate on the internet frequently .. I also am probably vastly different from most people on this forum in the sense of my life and career and retirement goals. Remember I also am not planning on participating in 401k or US stocks (directly) for my investments. So when you consider that my ultimate career goals include moving to a less developed country and living on basically nothing for retirement ... my IBR scheme is probably among the most sound decisions that I am making with my life. Of course, there is the off chance that all my other goals will work out and I'll become rich and stay in the US for some bizarre reason .. in which case yes I will pay my student loans in full and you can laugh at me as much as you want while you are still working as an employee into your 50s.

I would also like to know ... since we are in the business of personal inquiries .. do you have kids or are you planning to have kids? If you are , I would say your perceived financial high horse is a lot lower than you make it out to be. Same goes for your "early" retirement plans ... age 55? What if you could have had an additional $100,000 invested 20 years prior? Maybe it will hit you around that time since it seems like there is no way to get it through to you presently.
 
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You are so 3 years ago. Yes, I made some sacrifice and it was the best financial decision I have ever made. My student loans have been fully paid off. I max out my 401 k and Roth every year. I also invest and let my money work for me, not the other way around. I purchased a house last year in a city, not some rural town in Kentucky. Pretty good for someone who is 10 years younger than you huh?

I got here by making some smart financial decisions and of course some sacrifice. I don't need to depend on some gimmick or loopholes or some wishful thinking to be financially secured.

Yawn. Calling me old. Rural Kentucky. Don't you have any other jokes? Some that are actually relevant would be a nice change. Your posts all read the same: "Everyone else is doing it wrong! Look at me! I sacrificed! My way is best!" What you don't seem to realize is that there are many way to be happy, successful and secure in life.

I'm not sure how old you are, but if you are actually 10 years younger than I am, it seems like you are a little late to the home-buying game. I bought my first at age 22, my second at 26, and just sold the second today for a nice profit. Closing on our new home Monday. All in a nice, affordable, family-friendly city! 🙂
 
Holy hell. Taking on that kind of debt is insane. Counting on loan forgiveness and IBR? The only thing you can count on is an increased supply of pharmacists and increasing student loan interest rates. I could further doom and gloom this thread but get real. Unless CA pharmacists make 2-2.5x more, and I don't think they do, there is no reason to pay 2-2.5x more for that degree.

*shudder*
 
Yawn. Calling me old. Rural Kentucky. Don't you have any other jokes? Some that are actually relevant would be a nice change. Your posts all read the same: "Everyone else is doing it wrong! Look at me! I sacrificed! My way is best!" What you don't seem to realize is that there are many way to be happy, successful and secure in life.

I'm not sure how old you are, but if you are actually 10 years younger than I am, it seems like you are a little late to the home-buying game. I bought my first at age 22, my second at 26, and just sold the second today for a nice profit. Closing on our new home Monday. All in a nice, affordable, family-friendly city! 🙂

IBR is a good hedge plan for someone with lower certainty about their future earnings, assets, and general financial track. It is also a tool to obtain financial flexibility in general. However just because that is true doesnt mean that the converse holds as well. Not using IBR doesnt mean that you are a financial all-star and locked in to a perfect life, which is what BMB seems to be insinuating.

He likes to insult people's intelligence, decision making abilities, and life success based on them using a hedge against loss. I would be the first to admit I am very unsure about the future and my future financially ... which only strengthens my case.

It's like someone paying off their mortgage immediately at 3% instead of using the low interest rate as a tool and tax reduction and continuing to pay mortgage payments. Betting on being in a perfect place financially by spending all of the money you have to end a long term obligation in the present is basically gambling on your future. If BMBiology lost his job and couldnt afford rent or food, his warm fuzzies from paying his loans back immediately would surely make up for that. If he is going to have some kind of perfect life, then that is great and he would benefit from paying his loans off immediately... but that is gambling at best. I *know* i am not going to have a perfect life or even a rational one ... therefore paying the minimum becomes even more sane.

A4MD is a great example of someone who uses/used IBR to hedge against problems, and then used the savings and advantage to overcome and prevent potential problems. Either way she would have won. Someone who pays all up front, then encounters problems (lets face it basically everyone does encounter financial or work issues sometime in life) has basically removed their safety net. Having an extra 50-100k in the bank in your early your career is not to be overlooked -- she has obviously leveraged that into more financial success. Meanwhile the student loan 'bears' ie paranoid individuals, have put every penny to USgov , without knowledge of how that decision could affect their future. It is hubris imho. There is a reason the smartest and richest individuals and corporations only pay the minimum on their debt until they succeed ... Like facebook founder taking a revolving ARM home loan... he has billions of dollars yet he is not paying off his mortgage in full? Wonder why that is? He knows he can make more with his money by investing. For us peons (relatively speaking) ... we can maybe not make more than student loan % with our money via direct investment .. but we can improve the quality of life of ourselves and family when it counts... which is worth way more than being able to brag to people that you are 'debt free'... Nobody is debt free. Suckers are debt free, especially in this country with the future of inflation and anarchy looking more likely every day. Savers will universally lose.
 
Holy hell. Taking on that kind of debt is insane. Counting on loan forgiveness and IBR? The only thing you can count on is an increased supply of pharmacists and increasing student loan interest rates. I could further doom and gloom this thread but get real. Unless CA pharmacists make 2-2.5x more, and I don't think they do, there is no reason to pay 2-2.5x more for that degree.

*shudder*

pretty much, and I thought my $90K total was a lot. Why pay more? Get it for 1/2 or less in the midwest. You can always go back to cali after graduation.
 
I am planning on alternating my work hours for the first few years to minimize my IBR payments. My first year IBR will be based on a $0 AGI, my second year will be based on my first year's tax return, which I will be working part time a lot of that year , intentionally pick up fewer shifts, paid as a graduate intern, etc.

Wait a minute so you didn't work at all in your 4th year? You have not been hired as a pharmacist? All of this talk about retiring at 45. You are almost 30. You better get started soon.

A4MD is a great example of someone who uses/used IBR to hedge against problems.

A4MD's situation is different from most new graduates. First, she's already married with a child which allows her to pay less per month especially since her husband doesn't make that much money. Second, she did a residency and therefore, she didnt earn much during that year. This also allows her to pay less per month. Now that she's earning a full pharmacist salary and her business starts to grow, her monthly payment is going to jump. That's why she's trying to get off IBR. She knows the amount of interest she would need to pay if she stays on IBR so she's putting as much as she can toward her student loan. I think she put 50 k recently. Her strategy is similar to my strategy which is to pay as much as possible so you can avoid the high interest. No one is stupid enough to think 6.8% and 7.9% interest rate is a good rate.
 
The facts are a person who makes a typical pharmacist salary and has 300k of loans or higher will save 100-300k by using IBR and netting a $600-700k forgiveness than if they paid straight up.

You are not exactly "saving". You will be paying 6.8% and 7.9% interest rate for the next 25 years. In addition, you have to pay tax (expect about 25% based on a pharmacist's salary) on any amount that is "forgiven". Yes, you can talk about hiding your asset from the IRS (aka tax evasion) to avoid this tax.

Check out this NY Times article. A lot of new grads are going thru a similar situation with high student loan debt and low employment.

NY TIMES said:
Today, her debt exceeds her salary by a factor of five &#8212; much higher than the recommended twice-starting-salary ratio. She signed up for income-based repayment, a government program available to federal student loan recipients. (A newer program with slightly more generous terms, called Pay As You Earn, or PAYE, is available to more recent graduates.) Both income-based repayment and PAYE allow graduates to lead relatively normal lives by paying back a modest percentage of their income based on a formula. After a fixed amount of time, from 10 to 25 years, the balance of the debt is discharged.

That's the good news. The bad news is that the interest on the debt keeps growing and taxes must be paid on the amount discharged, as if it is income. Dr. Schafer sends $400 a month to Sallie Mae, a sum that will rise. But what kind of tax bill awaits her? Asked to run the numbers, GL Advisor, a financial services company that specializes in student loans, calculated that Dr. Schafer's debt is likely to exceed $650,000 when her tax bill lands 25 years after the start of the loan, which means she will owe the Internal Revenue Service roughly $200,000. That will happen while she is still deep in her career, perhaps around the time she wants to send some children to college.

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/02/24/b...nd-trap-new-veterinarians.html?pagewanted=all
 
1. You already know I am not using or going to use 401k .
Then you are missing out on quite a lot of employer match money. Around $1.5 million.

http://www.bankrate.com/calculators/retirement/401-k-retirement-calculator.aspx

Assumptions:
Contribute 5%, employer matches $1 for $1 up to 5%
$120k salary, with 2% raises every year
Contribute from 26 to 65 y/o
7% investment returns

Balance at 65 y/o:
Employer match: $1,472,879
Employee money: $1,472,879
=======================
Total balance $2,945,758
 
Then you are missing out on quite a lot of employer match money. Around $1.5 million.

http://www.bankrate.com/calculators/retirement/401-k-retirement-calculator.aspx

Assumptions:
Contribute 5%, employer matches $1 for $1 up to 5%
$120k salary, with 2% raises every year
Contribute from 26 to 65 y/o
7% investment returns

Balance at 65 y/o:
Employer match: $1,472,879
Employee money: $1,472,879
=======================
Total balance $2,945,758

A lot less if you only work 15 years instead of 40.

Also anyone who thinks deferring taxes at an unknown rate in this macroeconomic climate is a great idea is smoking something.. I will give you the employer match. It is a decent win if you are going to be working for a long time.
 
You are not exactly "saving". You will be paying 6.8% and 7.9% interest rate for the next 25 years. In addition, you have to pay tax (expect about 25% based on a pharmacist's salary) on any amount that is "forgiven". Yes, you can talk about hiding your asset from the IRS (aka tax evasion) to avoid this tax.

Check out this NY Times article. A lot of new grads are going thru a similar situation with high student loan debt and low employment.



http://www.nytimes.com/2013/02/24/b...nd-trap-new-veterinarians.html?pagewanted=all

Lol its funny nyt published that article without doing their research. . Also we already went through the tax situation bmb. Both you and nyt are grossly uninformed.
 
This is pretty normal BUT it is really foolish of you to think that if others are doing it, then it's ok for you too....

When have I ever stated that I was "okay" with this? If you have any knowledge on dealing with independent financial situations, in regards to student debt, then please let me know. If not, then try to spare the rest of the healthcare community with your obvious remarks.

That being said, reading what other people have posted on this thread is giving me a good insight on how to deal with student debt in general. Thanks!!!
 
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http://cluborlov.blogspot.com/2013/09/wombs-work-and-well-meaning-wealthy.html

Excerpt:

"I often have to remind my colleagues that teen moms and welfare moms are far wealthier than they are by virtue of the fact that zero is a larger number than the large negative balance of student debt most of us carry. Women who refuse to take on educational debt and have children instead are often better off than hard-working achievers in terms of sanity as well. "
 
A lot less if you only work 15 years instead of 40.
Well I actually want to work as long as I can because pharmacy still has a pretty good 'buck for your bang' ratio.

Assuming $120k starting salary and 2% raises, 15 years from now we could be getting paid around $162k, 40 years from now about $260k, and the total earnings from years 16-40 would be $5.2 million. That's quite a lot of money to give up by not working.
 
Well I actually want to work as long as I can because pharmacy still has a pretty good 'buck for your bang' ratio.

Assuming $120k starting salary and 2% raises, 15 years from now we could be getting paid around $162k, 40 years from now about $260k, and the total earnings from years 16-40 would be $5.2 million. That's quite a lot of money to give up by not working.

2 percent raises .. Which company gives that high of raise
 
2 percent raises .. Which company gives that high of raise
Ok, I can reduce it to 1% raises, and years 16-40 will total $3.9 million.

0% raise would be just a straight multiplication of $120k x 25 = $3 mil.
 
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