Student Professor Relationships

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lilmissflirt

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Hey guys,
I have been a lurker on this site for a long time and finally decided to register. I am currently a veterinary student in North america and I am loving every second of it! I have had a bit of issue for awhile and thought I would see if you guys had any thoughts. Based on the nature of my issue it is not something I feel comfortable giving exact details about or even talking about it with fellow classmates. I was wondering what your views of student professor relationships were? Would you treat one of your classmates differently if you found out she was in a relationship with a male professor? (even if he no longer was directly teaching your class?)
Any one have any personal experience with this issue or seen it happen at your school?

Thanks guys!
 
Vet school or no, professor student romantic relationships are inappropriate. Period.

Don't poop where you eat.
 
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lilmissflirt said:
Hey guys,
I have been a lurker on this site for a long time and finally decided to register. I am currently a veterinary student in North america and I am loving every second of it! I have had a bit of issue for awhile and thought I would see if you guys had any thoughts. Based on the nature of my issue it is not something I feel comfortable giving exact details about or even talking about it with fellow classmates. I was wondering what your views of student professor relationships were? Would you treat one of your classmates differently if you found out she was in a relationship with a male professor? (even if he no longer was directly teaching your class?)
Any one have any personal experience with this issue or seen it happen at your school?

Thanks guys!
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I'm sure a lot of people will have a problem with it.

Having said that, as a non-traditional student (I'm 28 now and have been working full-time for the last 5-6 years or so); it's not uncommon to see relationships (hooking up/dating/or even marriage) between co-workers, even when it's a boss/subordinate relationship.

Most companies will have some official policy about it. I'm not sure if your University has a code-of-conduct that address it. I know, the last company I worked at switched an employee to another 'team' so that she'd have a different manager to avoid a conflict of interest or whatever.

Of course, it's incredibly common to see bosses hire their kids....my last job; the CEO's 22 year old daughter was on the 'Senior Staff'....so it's not like that type of favoritism doesn't exist.

If I were you, I wouldn't tell anyone. Not because I think what you are doing is wrong; but because other people might and if enough people make a big enough stink out of it you or your significant other could potentially face a lot of problems.
 
Honest girls opinion:
Q: "I was wondering what your views of student professor relationships were?"

A: sketchy and everything bad you'd think I was thinking... I am!

Q: "Would you treat one of your classmates differently if you found out she was in a relationship with a male professor(even if he no longer was directly teaching your class?)"

A: Yes. Its hard not to let the thought cross your mind of "Well she got 85% and I got 80%... hmm I wonder why?". Even if she was my friend before, I'd still likely unintentionally treat or think about situations differently that involved her. Its psychology! And even if he wasn't directly teaching- he's still associated with the class.

Q: Any one have any personal experience with this issue or seen it happen at your school?

A: I can't think of a situation where I dated a boss or someone 'above' me, but I was in a situation where I dated "against the rules". I was working on a remote research project where we basically ate PB&J every day for lunch and pasta for dinner. It rained every day for 3 weeks, the equipment wasn't working and we were in pretty poor spirits... anyways I met a local guy and after that it was to hell with the PB&J! I was living the high life with real food, hot water showers, TV! and a nice warm cozy bed. On our weekly afternoons off, he took me to the beach, the towns, etc. Basically I revealed as little as possible to my co workers because I knew they'd be hating me.

My advice is, well if you really feel strongly about this person, then follow your heart... but be aware of what that might come with. Realize that its a touchy situation, so be careful.
 
A vet I worked for did marry one of the professors... but they weren't in a relationship until after graduation. I dunno if anything went on before that, but it wasn't anything that people found out about.

Tread very carefully...
 
I agree that you definitely need to be careful if you're in a relationship. I have a couple of examples from my school.

The first is how it is done wrong: Girl is heavily involved in the life of a professor that is married and is constantly in his office with the door open. The girl claims that there is no relationship, but people in her class don't necessarily believe her. She is often open to scrutiny from her classmates and others who see her there all the time. At the time this started, she was in class with him and he was directly responsible for her grade. That's definitely shady.

The 2nd is done much better: Guy in my class fell for someone at a bar, turned out to be a resident. Residents here typically teach at least one class and can be responsible for grades on rotation. They figured out that they were in school together and made sure that when he is on the rotation she is a resident for, she is off to make sure that there aren't even any perceived conflicts of interest. He also doesn't interrupt rotation or class time to see her. I think this is done well and even though everyone knows about it, nobody has a problem with it because they have thought out all possibilities and consequences.

3rd situation: Professor and student dating from before vet school. Student gets in to vet school and although some people know about it, it is obvious that the relationship was pre-vet school and therefore not really that inappropriate. However, when the student and the professor break it off, there is a lot of tension around school. Especially because it was not a good break up and the student is dating somebody else fairly quickly afterward. I think those 2 had handled it well and pretty much nobody cared about them being in a relationship until the break-up. So you really have to be careful about that, as well.
 
I say do your thing but, like everyone else stated, keep it on the down low. For those that think it's taboo, I got news for you. You will see relationships between students-professors, clinician-clinician, clinicians-staff your entire career. As long as it does not break any policies, everyone should mind their own business.

I dated a resident while working at a small animal referral clinic. We kept it quiet at first, more so because I was an assistant and she a surgical resident and it's just not something you see everyday. People whispered but, after awhile we were old news/gossip. Before long, we hung out with everyone with nothing held back... The break up was awkward as with any other break-up with someone you work with.

Do your thing, have fun, be careful, and keep everything in perspective (school is more important)
 
I know of one situation. Female professor, male vet student. Her contract with the University was not renewed.

Not saying that's why, just saying that's what happened.

Nothing averse occurred to the male student that I know of.
 
In terms of grades, does your school have exam numbers that you use instead of putting down your name? We use numbers. The professors grade them (sometimes multiple professors will grade the written ones, for the most part the rest are all scantron) then the exams are given to the administrative assistants to be recorded.
By this system it would be extremely hard to boost the students grade. It would have to be more devious like finding her number, going through the exams to get to that number, and make sure that the prof is the only one grading it (like i said, we usually have lots of professors grade the exams and they each do 1 page)

Considering the age difference there is in every class, I wouldn't be surprised about a relationship sprouting. Especially if the student was near the same age as the prof. I'm not saying that it is right, but I can understand it happening. I would hope that they would hold off as long as they can, but since vet school is 4 years I can also see that being a longggg time to wait.
 
Often times school have policies against it. Have you looked into the policies at our school?
 
Savethewhales said:
Often times school have policies against it. Have you looked into the policies at our school?
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That's exactly what I was thinking. You should really look into that before going forward and cementing anything. Even if you tried your hardest to keep it a secret, there's always a chance it could get out and affect you or him negatively, not just with your classmates but the administration faculty have grounds to do whatever they feel is necessary in certain situations. I'm not even sure how you would go about checking into such a policy.

I wouldn't "judge" a person based on this situation, but I definitely think its a conflict of interest. And how could it not be? Even though this man isn't directly teaching your class, he still is in close contact and on different relationship terms with other professors who might be teaching you at the time. Whether or not this changes your academics or gives you any advantages is neither here nor there. Obviously your relationship is more than that, and that's not what this is about, but you know that others would assume so... because you're not going to convince anyone who finds out about it (if they did) that it's not a big deal.

Not saying you can pick and choose who you love, but I don't see other students taking too kindly to that situation (judging from the kinds of people I go to school with and how they would feel if I was in that situation).... proceed with caution I suppose.
 
IMO it wouldn't be that profs would fudge grades, I don't think that would be a problem, but the perceived advantages of the student perhaps being more in the loop and getting put on the best cases (thinking of 4th years here) and other advantages involved with most likely socializing more with other veterinarians/teachers and therefore having an advantage over more worthy students who don't have the same "in" in getting themselves known.

In my personal opinion, I believe that the vast majority of veterinarians/students conduct themselves just fine in these situations when they arise.
 
Angelus9 said:
IMO it wouldn't be that profs would fudge grades, I don't think that would be a problem, but the perceived advantages of the student perhaps being more in the loop and getting put on the best cases (thinking of 4th years here) and other advantages involved with most likely socializing more with other veterinarians/teachers and therefore having an advantage over more worthy students who don't have the same "in" in getting themselves known.

In my personal opinion, I believe that the vast majority of veterinarians/students conduct themselves just fine in these situations when they arise.
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This is a good point. However, 4th year there are so many diff rotations in diff departments I don't think it would make a difference. And there are plenty of opportunities to get to know professors other than being in a relationship with them. With this mindset, the President, VP, academic liaison etc would all have an unfair advantage because they are more social with professors. But there are plenty of chances to get involved with professors, by working in labs, leadership in clubs, representatives for Hill, Merial/Merk and other companies, VBMA, or simply just showing up to all the events that take place in the school. I think that anyone can have the same "access" to many professors if they wanted to, you don't need to be in a romantic relationship to get that.

And I want to make it clear I'm not defending the students actions. I'm just thinking that there are many ways people can have an "advantage" without being in a relationship with a prof.
 
BlacKAT33 said:
With this mindset, the President, VP, academic liaison etc would all have an unfair advantage because they are more social with professors.
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Um, lol, nope. World of difference between the professional relationship to profs of Class officers like President, VP, etc. and the extremely PERSONAL interest a female professor boinking a student has in seeing that that student has the best of opportunities. Totally different.
 
BlacKAT33 said:
This is a good point. However, 4th year there are so many diff rotations in diff departments I don't think it would make a difference. And there are plenty of opportunities to get to know professors other than being in a relationship with them. With this mindset, the President, VP, academic liaison etc would all have an unfair advantage because they are more social with professors. But there are plenty of chances to get involved with professors, by working in labs, leadership in clubs, representatives for Hill, Merial/Merk and other companies, VBMA, or simply just showing up to all the events that take place in the school. I think that anyone can have the same "access" to many professors if they wanted to, you don't need to be in a romantic relationship to get that.

And I want to make it clear I'm not defending the students actions. I'm just thinking that there are many ways people can have an "advantage" without being in a relationship with a prof.
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A professional relationship between a professor and a student is just that- professional. Students are here to gain from professors. Having "access" to professors is something that all students are entitled to, and something a majority don't take advantage of. But by developing and networking with professors you aren't getting an advantage. However, having an intimate relationship with a professor is on a whole other playing field. You, in fact, ARE getting attention from and "access" to a professor that not other students have. Also, in forming this intimate relationship one might have "access" to knowledge about other professors through this student-teacher relationship that, again, is not available to other students. So, no it's not at all the same thing. There is a huge difference in developing a good relationship with your professors to build your contact networks and further your education and experience versus dating a professor.



Angelus9 said:
Um, lol, nope. World of difference between the professional relationship to profs of Class officers like President, VP, etc. and the extremely PERSONAL interest a female professor boinking a student has in seeing that that student has the best of opportunities. Totally different.
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👍
 
libster06 said:
A professional relationship between a professor and a student is just that- professional. Students are here to gain from professors. Having "access" to professors is something that all students are entitled to, and something a majority don't take advantage of. But by developing and networking with professors you aren't getting an advantage. However, having an intimate relationship with a professor is on a whole other playing field. You, in fact, ARE getting attention from and "access" to a professor that not other students have. Also, in forming this intimate relationship one might have "access" to knowledge about other professors through this student-teacher relationship that, again, is not available to other students. So, no it's not at all the same thing. There is a huge difference in developing a good relationship with your professors to build your contact networks and further your education and experience versus dating a professor.





👍
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Yes, I do agree that having access to professors is something that all students have so this would not be a real advantage. I was just using it as an example that all people have the ability to get similar contacts to help them on w/e path they wish.

Your example about having access to knowledge about other professors is good. I guess I'm just failing to see how it could make such a HUGE impact that it would matter that much. If this knowledge about other professors was about job openings, "types of students they prefer to employ", or maybe their favorite hobbies, I'm sure I could get the same information by chatting with a professor. If this knowledge was gossip/drama or a personal fact about their private life, not all students would have access to this information, but I don't see how this would benefit them any more by knowing it. It doesn't have anything to do with their grades or jobs. I guess they could blackmail a professor with the dirty info lol So, sure they would know more information, but I don't think they'd be better off than someone like me who just networks a lot.

Either way, it all comes down to the university's own policies
 
Hey all, I'm really a lurker, but this thread is pretty interesting, so I thought I'd jump in.

This happened at my undergraduate school. A quite good friend of mine became romantically involved with one of her professors a couple of years after she had been his student (she was still an undergrad, however). I knew about the situation beforehand, and they were very much in love. It eventually got leaked, and it was a DISASTER. We had a popular forum, and the forum EXPLODED. People said shocking, hurtful, judgmental things. Since she had been one of the top students in his class (that's how they originally got to know each other ... office hours etc) people said that she had -- forgive the euphemism -- "earned" her A in other ways. It was an absolute buzz on campus... EVERYONE knew about it, talked about it, judged it. The rumors spiraled out of control - totally untrue things were said. It was an incredible study for me (who knew the whole story) to see how rumors can warp a story beyond recognition.

The professor went under review and kept his job. My friend graduated and they broke up. I would never wish this experience on anyone.
 
BlacKAT33 said:
Your example about having access to knowledge about other professors is good. I guess I'm just failing to see how it could make such a HUGE impact that it would matter that much. If this knowledge about other professors was about job openings, "types of students they prefer to employ", or maybe their favorite hobbies, I'm sure I could get the same information by chatting with a professor.
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Well, that's not quite what I meant.😎 Not wanting to get specific, but in the one I knew about, the bf was just always there, always knew what cases were coming in before any of the other 4th years and made sure he was on hand. (It's not unusual for profs to call certain students when they know a case is coming in, in which that student would be particularly interested, but they generally try to share the wealth). When you have someone who ALWAYS knows what's going to happen and can make sure they ask to be in on it before anyone else can make the request, or makes sure they're right there on hand, and this before anybody else even knows what's up, well......not cool. Especially if case load isn't all that high to begin with and the SO is in the position to make sure bf gets the cream of the cases and does so. Have to say again, though, that I know that this does happen, I think it's RARE.

IME when this happens you're right, people (professors, too; most of them see right through this BS) just deal with it and end up thinking both halves of that couple are jerks. However, there are very successful prof/student romances, I'm sure, wherein both parties are class acts. So overall, I'd be surprised that this situation is a problem in a lot of places. It's just so TACKY. 😀
 
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Angelus9 said:
Well, that's not quite what I meant.😎 Not wanting to get specific, but in the one I knew about, the bf was just always there, always knew what cases were coming in before any of the other 4th years and made sure he was on hand. (It's not unusual for profs to call certain students when they know a case is coming in, in which that student would be particularly interested, but they generally try to share the wealth). When you have someone who ALWAYS knows what's going to happen and can make sure they ask to be in on it before anyone else can make the request, or makes sure they're right there on hand, and this before anybody else even knows what's up, well......not cool. Especially if case load isn't all that high to begin with and the SO is in the position to make sure bf gets the cream of the cases and does so. Have to say again, though, that I know that this does happen, I think it's RARE.

IME when this happens you're right, people (professors, too; most of them see right through this BS) just deal with it and end up thinking both halves of that couple are jerks. However, there are very successful prof/student romances, I'm sure, wherein both parties are class acts. So overall, I'd be surprised that this situation is a problem in a lot of places. It's just so TACKY. 😀
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lol yes very tacky
 
I can't think of any situation where the upside outweighs the downside of this issue.

In the best case scenario, it's unprofessional and gives the illusion of favoritism.

In the worst case scenario, it's unprofessional and there's actual favoritism.

Lose - Lose.

Be a grown-up, and don't bang your professors.
 
libster06 said:
A professional relationship between a professor and a student is just that- professional. Students are here to gain from professors. Having "access" to professors is something that all students are entitled to, and something a majority don't take advantage of. But by developing and networking with professors you aren't getting an advantage. However, having an intimate relationship with a professor is on a whole other playing field. You, in fact, ARE getting attention from and "access" to a professor that not other students have. Also, in forming this intimate relationship one might have "access" to knowledge about other professors through this student-teacher relationship that, again, is not available to other students. So, no it's not at all the same thing. There is a huge difference in developing a good relationship with your professors to build your contact networks and further your education and experience versus dating a professor.
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yeah there is a difference, but so what?
There are lot's of differences and not all of them are entirely fair.
That is the reality of life.

Is if fair that some students are children of vet's and have better access to job opportunites etc?

Is it fair if students have a family relationship to the school and get special treatment?

Is it fair that some students have or come from money and get opportunities other's can't?

Is it fair that some students are more agreeable and get more attention from faculty?

There is a whole spectrum of things that differentiate the opportunities of different people. That is the world we live in. It is reality.

People are in an adult, consensual relationship. It is legal and there is nothing "wrong" about it (barring University policy). As long as there is no blatant conflict of interest then I don't see what the problem is.

Current student in their class? Problem
Making direct decisions about the student (scholarships, etc)? Problem.

Otherwise, those of us who can't (or don't want to) sleep with our professors should just deal with it.
 
StartingoverVet said:
As long as there is no blatant conflict of interest then I don't see what the problem is.
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There's an inherent conflict of interest in the basic premise.

The professor has a professional responsibility to the student and a personal/romantic responsibility to the same student.
 
Dsmoody23 said:
I can't think of any situation where the upside outweighs the downside of this issue.
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Seriously? How bout some getting busy?? I can definitely see an advantage to having a relationship with a professional after sitting in class with almost all women, all year, all day long who are half your age! :laugh:
 
flyhi said:
Seriously? How bout some getting busy?? I can definitely see an advantage to having a relationship with a professional after sitting in class with almost all women, all year, all day long who are half your age! :laugh:
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Guess what? There are about a billion other men where that came from. Thanks to the magic of procreation. No need to dip your pen in the company ink.
 
StartingoverVet said:
yeah there is a difference, but so what?
There are lot's of differences and not all of them are entirely fair.
That is the reality of life.

Is if fair that some students are children of vet's and have better access to job opportunites etc?

Is it fair if students have a family relationship to the school and get special treatment?

Is it fair that some students have or come from money and get opportunities other's can't?

Is it fair that some students are more agreeable and get more attention from faculty?

There is a whole spectrum of things that differentiate the opportunities of different people. That is the world we live in. It is reality.

People are in an adult, consensual relationship. It is legal and there is nothing "wrong" about it (barring University policy). As long as there is no blatant conflict of interest then I don't see what the problem is.

Current student in their class? Problem
Making direct decisions about the student (scholarships, etc)? Problem.

Otherwise, those of us who can't (or don't want to) sleep with our professors should just deal with it.
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Wow. I wasn't judging anyone for sleeping with/kissing/canoodling a professor at the university. I never said anything about fairness. I merely am stating, because the OP asked, that I feel like it is a conflict of interest and I was stating reasons why, albeit I was trying to do it in a way to demonstrate how someone in the class might take it. I don't think that the relationship in question has ulterior motives. It's a sticky situation... you can't help who you love, but you are taking a big risk with a relationship like this. "Barring company policy" is a big caveat here... kind of like "all other things held equal" (which consistently NEVER are), I was just trying to reinforce the suggestion that the OP should really scrutinize the university policy on student-professor dating relationships.

I feel like this is a bit more serious of a subject than you have made it out to be... I'm sorry, it's not just 2 coworkers consensually dating. It's a professor and a student. To add to the "fairness" debate... this is also one of those "unfair" situations in which the stigma behind a professor-student couple will never go away, no matter how unfair it is, consensual, close in age or furthest away from academic interference the two might be.

I was just letting the OP know to proceed with caution because somehow I don't feel like the vet students in the class would be so forgiving. No one wants to feel like they are at a disadvantage for reasons beyond their control... this would be one of those situations.
 
Me personally... I dated the manager at the animal hospital I worked. I was also best friends with the other people that managed other aspects. When I was cheated on by my boyfriend with another employee things were awkward. I just did my job kept my head down. People are going to feel how they feel. People also find things out. I guess watch your butt and remind yourself that you might need to save it. Everything is always a "WHAT IF" and a different situation for every person. The girls that manage and my best friends still are and I recently stood up in a wedding for one. I guess only time can tell and unless you can read the future nobody knows what the best choice would have been or will be. Obviously some things are meant to be and others not so much...
 
Dsmoody23 said:
There's an inherent conflict of interest in the basic premise.

The professor has a professional responsibility to the student and a personal/romantic responsibility to the same student.
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Exactly. Its just something that is not accepted easily. I have never come in contact with this type of situation, honestly. Yes, its 2011, but its just not something that you can throw at a group of people and expect them to jump on board. Some people are going to be more okay with it than others, but I know a lot of students here that would see it as a threat (however wrong that may be) rather than just shrug it off as none of their biznass. Everyone's entitled to be either person.
 
This may be a little off topic, but I was wondering how many professors everyone has at their own school. Say, total number of professors for first year only, or if it is easier for one semester, or one quarter.

For this quarter, we are taking 6 classes. We have approximately 50+ professors combined. Sometimes they give one lecture, sometimes they give a handful of lectures. So imagine how many professors we have teaching us for our whole first year. I guess this is why I see it having little influence at Penn. One professor is like nothing lol I bet many of these professors don't even know each other haha

But if I were at a school where there were 6 professors for 6 classes that would be a big difference.
 
Here's a different perspective: if I were a professor, no matter how infatuated I might be with a student, I wouldn't risk my job security or my personal and/or professional reputation by dating that student. If it's "meant to be", maybe pick up after the student has graduated. If not, I've saved myself a crapload of stress, drama and possible professional ruin. If I were a student with mutual romantic feelings for a professor, I would abstain from acting on those feelings at least while in vet school to help the professor keep his or her reputation intact. It would be tough, I know, but it's really the "right" thing to do, in my opinion.
 
Totally not contributing to this thread, but I just want to say I love it.

It is like finding an issue of STAR magazine in my pile of National Geographics.




Please continue.... 😛
 
that redhead said:
Here's a different perspective: if I were a professor, no matter how infatuated I might be with a student, I wouldn't risk my job security or my personal and/or professional reputation by dating that student. If it's "meant to be", maybe pick up after the student has graduated. If not, I've saved myself a crapload of stress, drama and possible professional ruin. If I were a student with mutual romantic feelings for a professor, I would abstain from acting on those feelings at least while in vet school to help the professor keep his or her reputation intact. It would be tough, I know, but it's really the "right" thing to do, in my opinion.
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Having seen from a distance how these kind of relationships can destroy people's careers, I agree whole-heartedly. 👍

Plus it's tacky. 😀
 
To quote the great Ron Burgundy:

Veronica: "We really should be going. I swore that I would never get involved with a coworker."
Ron: "Wait. What if, just for tonight, we weren't coworkers? We were co-people?"
Veronica: "I don't--"
Ron: "Shh. You be a woman. I'll be a man. That's all."
 
1. Check the official policies of the school. According to the policy you *may* be required to disclose it.
2. Wait. If it's true love and you just *have* to be with eachother - that attraction will still be there in a couple of years when it isn't a "professional" relationship. Real life (ie when you aren't a student and actually have a job) is actually less messy in this situation than in school - in real life there can be a transfer etc. Student/Professor is way different than an employee/supervisor relationship IMO.
3. If I found out that my classmate was having a relationship with a professor - I would look negatively on their self control and judegement. Not necessarily avoid them or anything like that, but something that would probably come to mind when I had interactions with that person.
 
Wow, go away for a couple of days and the place explodes! Awaring - LOVE the Star reference!! :laugh: Anyway, simply HAD to check out the thread due to the topic and the OP's 'name'. Makes me wonder about the whole thing just a touch. Anyway...

that redhead said:
Here's a different perspective: if I were a professor, no matter how infatuated I might be with a student, I wouldn't risk my job security or my personal and/or professional reputation by dating that student. If it's "meant to be", maybe pick up after the student has graduated. If not, I've saved myself a crapload of stress, drama and possible professional ruin. If I were a student with mutual romantic feelings for a professor, I would abstain from acting on those feelings at least while in vet school to help the professor keep his or her reputation intact. It would be tough, I know, but it's really the "right" thing to do, in my opinion.
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👍👍 Well said, red!! Seriously, as others have said, you can't pick who you fall for. But, for sake of everyone's well being, hold off until there's zero possibility of having a professional prof/student relationship. If not, I can only say that there's nothing but trouble ahead... Like WEN, I've seen this and the pain that was endured is something that cannot even be imagined.

Whyevernot55 said:
Having seen from a distance how these kind of relationships can destroy people's careers, I agree whole-heartedly. 👍

Plus it's tacky. 😀
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👍 Ditto on the tacky!
 
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But what if he teaches equine anatomy like this?

chadhorseb.jpg





I would be fully willing to accept the consequences of my actions. 😉
 
Thanks for all the posts guys, gave me some things to think about. I am in a position of limbo. Lines have been crossed beyond the normal student professor relationship but not a full blown relationship yet. The thought of how this could affect me or him has been a major concern of mine. There is obviously major chemistry between us but I am not sure if the benefits would outweigh the possible consequences. It's a hard spot to be in. I know what logic says but when you are actually in the position it doesn't feel so black and white. The major concern I have beyond the ethics surrounding it is that I have heard that older male profs will sometime use younger female students as an ego boost. He is not ancient by any means but there is a little bit of a age gap between us. While I do not think I am just a ego boost, it is something that has crossed my mind. He is unattached so nothing shady in regards to cheating going on.

This situation is not one I willingly entered. It started out with shared enthusiasm for a specific branch of vet med and then turned into a friendship and has now resulted in romantic feelings. I think a lot of it stemmed from being the busy vet student I am not all people understand my schedule, which has made it difficult to date non vet med people. Plus a lot of people don't understand why we love what we do. With the prof he just seems to get it and we have so much in common.
 
lilmissflirt said:
Thanks for all the posts guys, gave me some things to think about. I am in a position of limbo. Lines have been crossed beyond the normal student professor relationship but not a full blown relationship yet. The thought of how this could affect me or him has been a major concern of mine. There is obviously major chemistry between us but I am not sure if the benefits would outweigh the possible consequences. It’s a hard spot to be in.
Click to expand...

I agree. However, if there's major chemistry, I would argue that it will still be there in 2-3 years. By all means, stay friends if you can ( meaning if you can without crossing the boundary of a professional relationship), but if lines have been crossed, that's going to be very difficult.

I find the older i get the less black and white there is in the world, and the more shades of grey. In addition to just plain 'ole hormones/chemistry/attraction going on....you also have the factors you talked about in your second paragraph that play a major psychologicol role - you are in an extremely stressful situation (vet school) and feel isolated from much of the general population. this naturally results in very tight bonds with your fellow human beings that are part of it with you. It's the same psychology that underlies military boot camp and going to war. It doesn't provide much comfort to understand the biology/psychology of it while you are going through it......but I just wanted to mention it.

I admit that I thought you were a possible troll after your first post, however, your update post seems geniunely heartfelt and I truly feel for your situation. IMO, you are probably going to do what you are going to do, regardless of what may be the "best choice" - examine yourself and make sure you can live with whatever choice you decide to make. I'm currently making some "grey area" choices in my own relatioinship and deciding to do things that a year ago I would have said NO WAY to - so I understand how these things creep up on you. Nothing that has at stake what your decision has, but still - decisions that a year ago I thought would be very easy.

Good luck!
 
This sort of thing happens a lot more than most people want to think. I'm with SOV on this. I also think that someone who judges you on this should walk a mile in your shoes first. This goes for most things in life.

I'm not entirely certain that a university can fire a tenured faculty member for having a relationship with a student. If that were true, I think many a university would have far fewer faculty. Many schools do have policies against this sort of thing, but I think the university can issue a reprimand and that's about it. And if a policy is in place, it would be very difficult to enforce. It would likely come into play if the student lodged a complaint.

I know of people who have had this type of thing work out wonderfully. I also know of people who ended up getting burned. Think carefully and be mindful, but whatever you decide, I highly suggest that you keep it to yourself and keep it away from the academic environment. First and foremost, it is nobody's business but your own. You also don't want to provide fodder for the gossip mill. People seem to have a lot of time to spend minding the affairs of others.

Just my 2 cents. Good luck, whatever you decide.
 
I have a different kind of experience with a similar kind of situation that I think speaks to some of the "unfairness" (percieved or otherwise) that others have been talking about.

When I started graduate school there was a woman in my class who was already married to one of the professors at the same graduate school. Obviously, everyone knew about their relationship and that was fine...nothing sordid or tacky about that 😉. I don't quite remember the logistics of it all, but when he taught us as a class, she was not in the class at the time (maybe she had to take another class to compensate for missing part of the core class...I don't know) to avoid grading conflicts, having access to the professor outside of class etc.

However, she began her PhD work in her husbands laboratory and I know that graduate students in that lab were very displeased about the hours they were putting in vs the hours/work she was putting in. Obviously she and the PI arrived and left together each day, so as a PhD student she generally worked from 9-6pm (not a typical grad student day) and many students began to complain (not to the PI of course) that she was put on the 'easy projects'. Moreover they felt that they couldn't say things they wanted to say for fear of repercussion from the PI. The woman graduated with her PhD at the end of 3 years....this is basically insane. Her husband had put all this friends on her committee, and of course was interested in her graduating ASAP so she could obtain a position and make more money. So she and I were in the same year, by the time I graduated with my PhD (5.5 years total) she was an assistant dean at the school...only a year and a half after getting her PhD.

Obviously that raised a lot of eyebrows and certainly I wasn't very happy about it...I would sure as heck like to be making a deans salary! But that's how it worked. Is it fair? no. does it happen? of course.

I have nothing really to say to the OP except to be careful and figure out if this is something YOU really want (you mentioned something about professors dating students as an ego boost...I'm not so sure I'd be willing to step into a relationship if I thought that was my potential significant other's motives). I just wanted to throw it out there to further demonstrate how having an "inside advantage" can really be a huge advantage when it comes to certain things.
 
Marsala said:
I also think that someone who judges you on this should walk a mile in your shoes first.
Click to expand...

I'm with Marsala on that, but at the same time, I think it's foolish to think you wouldn't be judged. So think really carefully about whether it's worth it. One way to consider it might be: If you can be open about the relationship, that's a good sign. If you feel you have to hide it, that probably out to be a warning sign, if only because of this: consider the emotional effort it's going to take to carry on a serious, hidden relationship. You already have a lot of stress in school (at least, judging by what current students tell me). Why add more?

whatever you decide, I highly suggest that you keep it to yourself and keep it away from the academic environment. First and foremost, it is nobody's business but your own.
Click to expand...

I agree with that, but I think that you'd better start off with the assumption that people will find out, and know how you'll handle it when they do. Odds are it will come out.
 
lilmissflirt said:
Thanks for all the posts guys, gave me some things to think about. I am in a position of limbo. Lines have been crossed beyond the normal student professor relationship but not a full blown relationship yet. The thought of how this could affect me or him has been a major concern of mine. There is obviously major chemistry between us but I am not sure if the benefits would outweigh the possible consequences. It’s a hard spot to be in. I know what logic says but when you are actually in the position it doesn't feel so black and white. The major concern I have beyond the ethics surrounding it is that I have heard that older male profs will sometime use younger female students as an ego boost. He is not ancient by any means but there is a little bit of a age gap between us. While I do not think I am just a ego boost, it is something that has crossed my mind. He is unattached so nothing shady in regards to cheating going on.

This situation is not one I willingly entered. It started out with shared enthusiasm for a specific branch of vet med and then turned into a friendship and has now resulted in romantic feelings. I think a lot of it stemmed from being the busy vet student I am not all people understand my schedule, which has made it difficult to date non vet med people. Plus a lot of people don't understand why we love what we do. With the prof he just seems to get it and we have so much in common.
Click to expand...

Just wanted to apologize for coming across as possibly critical in my post earlier. Much like AHorseOffCourse I thought you might have been trolling just to see what you would get out of us. However, reading this, I can see that you're obviously in a bit of a predicament. No, nothing like this ever black and white; and if one hasn't been in the situation, they simply cannot know what's going through your head...

My reference earlier is actually regarding a close family friend. She began a relationship and then ultimately married her major professor from her graduate work. When the school got wind of the situation, it got ugly... While the university didn't fire him, he was dealt his fair share of 'punishment' (no chance for advancement within the department; black scar on his record, etc...). For her part, she was scrutinized terribly and was asked to finish at a terminal masters. Their relationship worked out, and they've been married for 30+ years; but they both paid a high price. Thus, I will simply hope that you take the best path for you. To be honest, if it wasn't a student/prof thing I wouldn't worry. But, sadly, being in an academic setting really does change things. So, please, for both your sakes, tread lightly along the way... Good luck!!
 
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