Student Stats on OCPM

[Smile786]

Hi Everyone,

I really didn't want to start a new thread and ask an annoying question, but it's bothering me and I want to know. Now does OCPM offer acceptance to any student that meets their criteria? According to their website, they require pre-req courses, two LORS, and unknown minimum MCAT score. Since its a tuition driven school, I just feel like they accept anyone that meets these requirements even if the MCAT scores are low. All I am saying is I got accepted to this school with a low MCAT score (<20) but my GPA and everything else was great, but how? I shouldn't complain, but I just want to know what's going on. Anyone has been accepted to OCPM or other Podiatry schools with impossible standards?

---

Members don't see this ad.

 

[PodunkUDPM]

Was it a conditional acceptance? Supposedly the cutoff is 21 for the MCAT.

 

[handoverfist77]

They want your money. I'm a 1st year at OCPM. It's true, they let pretty much anyone in unfortunately. We've already lost a number of people.

 

[Smile786]

No it wasn't conditional acceptance. Hmm, so does MCAT scores really tell you how well you do in Podiatry school? I hate standardized tests and never do well in them like the SATs and MCATs. Although, I made a 3.7 SCI and 3.5 Overall GPA during undergrad. Those who attend OCPM, what do you think about the tests and the curriculum?

 

[handoverfist77]

No it wasn't conditional acceptance. Hmm, so does MCAT scores really tell you how well you do in Podiatry school? I hate standardized tests and never do well in them like the SATs and MCATs. Although, I made a 3.7 SCI and 3.5 Overall GPA during undergrad. Those who attend OCPM, what do you think about the tests and the curriculum?

Just study and keep up with the material, and you will be golden. Don't sweat it!

 

[PoddyMan]

does MCAT scores really tell you how well you do in Podiatry school? I hate standardized tests and never do well in them like the SATs and MCATs. Although, I made a 3.7 SCI and 3.5 Overall GPA during undergrad.

Evidence has shown that the MCAT could be used as a predictor of performance on national board exams. Based on that, the lower your MCAT, the lesser chance you have of passing the national board exam.

Does that mean that you would not be a successful physician? Of course not! It means you're not good at taking a standardized test. However, one of the few objective measures to compare podiatric medical schools is by their national board exam pass rate. And, believe me, that is a biggie! The president of each university wants their pod med school's pass rate to be at least above the average.

And, if you don't pass the board exam, you won't get a license and you won't be able to practice. However, a school may be willing to take a chance on someone who's GPA is high (or, to balance the budget ).

 

[templepodnc]

Evidence has shown that the MCAT could be used as a predictor of performance on national board exams. Based on that, the lower your MCAT, the lesser chance you have of passing the national board exam.

Really? Where does this data come from? I'm not disagreeing but simply curious, I have never heard that before. My understanding is the boards are designed to see if you are at a minimum level and the MCAT was more of a critical analyzing test. I have heard that MCAT scores are a good predictor for how successul one will be in podiatry school but not for the boards. Quite interesting.

 

[PoddyMan]

Really? Where does this data come from? I'm not disagreeing but simply curious, I have never heard that before. My understanding is the boards are designed to see if you are at a minimum level and the MCAT was more of a critical analyzing test. I have heard that MCAT scores are a good predictor for how successul one will be in podiatry school but not for the boards. Quite interesting.

Julian ER: Validity of the Medical College Admission Test for Predicting Medical School Performance. Acad Med. 2005; 80:910&#8211;917

Conclusions
MCAT scores almost double the proportion of variance in medical school grades explained by uGPAs, and essentially replace the need for uGPAs in their impressive prediction of Step scores. The MCAT performs well as an indicator of academic preparation for medical school, independent of the school specific handicaps of uGPAs.​

Step scores = USMLE Steps 1, 2, & 3 (particularly Step 1)

 

[templepodnc]

Thanks. That is very interesting. Is the general consensus that the Podiatry Boards Part I are comparable to MD Step 1? I ask because I felt the pod boards were designed to test minimum levels while the step 1 may be a little more challenging and are not simply P/F even though the material covered is similar.

 

[dropfoot]

No it wasn't conditional acceptance. Hmm, so does MCAT scores really tell you how well you do in Podiatry school? I hate standardized tests and never do well in them like the SATs and MCATs. Although, I made a 3.7 SCI and 3.5 Overall GPA during undergrad. Those who attend OCPM, what do you think about the tests and the curriculum?

For one thing, your science GPA is ivy league; therefore, unless your science GPA came from a technical school of truck driving, your MCAT is probably not a true indicator of your ability. So, you did not exactly fly in under the wire; your a great student with tremendous potential. I think OCPM made a good bet on you, so don't sell yourself or the school short.

 

[PoddyMan]

Thanks. That is very interesting. Is the general consensus that the Podiatry Boards Part I are comparable to MD Step 1? I ask because I felt the pod boards were designed to test minimum levels while the step 1 may be a little more challenging and are not simply P/F even though the material covered is similar.

The hope is (re Vision 2015) that the two exams are equivalent. That's the short version! As for the MCAT as a predictor of NBPME success: the evidence is supportive.

 

[ThetaChiNAU]

.

 

[Smile786]

It is a kind post! My GPA is all hard work and it was from a competitive state university (can't say it because then people will start figuring out who I am). Thanks for all the info!!

 

[ThetaChiNAU]

.

 

[podpal]

Congrats Smile786! Wow! You have GREAT grades for pod school! That's fantastic! We need people like you in the field, who have the ability to make a difference.
In my opinion, the MCAT doesn't predict how well anyone will do on a professional board test. The pod boards have questions that MAKE SENSE, and they comprise material that pod students have learned very well. I guessed on much of the MCAT. There was a ? about how fast some guy would fall off a building and the answers were like, 5 seconds, 1 minute, etc. I didn't bother to try to figure it out, I guessed that it would take about 5 seconds to hit the ground from falling off a building. My MCAT score wasn't great. These kinds of questions have absolutely no bearing on professional education and many are stupid. I have yet to apply calculus or applied physics for any podiatric treatment for any patient I've seen.
People will argue that standardized tests serve a role, however, in the case of the MCAT, I can't see it. A test like that may be necessary for astrophysicists who need to know how to calculate the exact rate of speed that objects fly around in space/earth/etc. We just don't have UFO's hitting people in the feet enough for it to be a big concern in the USA.
I did VERY well on ALL of the podiatry boards, and passed every one the first time around. YOU WILL TOO!! Study hard, learn the material that's important so that you are a good practitioner, and you'll become a fine doctor and a credit to our profession!
WELCOME!!!

 

[hamlinbeach]

Anecdotal and/or seemingly statistical evidence (thanks poddyman) of the MCAT as a predictor of board scores, as well as its function in any capacity to predict how a student could handle professional education is BESIDES THE POINT!! That's not its function!

Medical schools use the MCAT to gauge applicants because it tests critical thinking and intellectual organization! If one had an incredible short term memory and was able to cram for every undergraduate exam, one could graduate with an astounding uGPA. The MCAT tests your ability to learn the right way and take the big/important ideas of the premed science curriculum and apply it to various situations presented on the exam... hence why medical schools need something standardized to compare! I personally would not want a person operating on me who could memorize the textbook, but couldn't apply the information in a suprise situation, and medical schools take that into account. Unfortunately podiatry schools don't, but to their credit, they can't. Sadly, as we all know, there just isn't enough applicants to raise the admissions standards, and people are accepted with awful scores. In the long run it probably doesn't mean anything about the type of doctor one will become though, as four years of professional school can mold a still impressionable mind!



happy fourth of july

 

[podpal]

If one had an incredible short term memory and was able to cram for every undergraduate exam, one could graduate with an astounding uGPA.
Really? From what school? What courses?

Happy 5th of July!

 

[hamlinbeach]

If one had an incredible short term memory and was able to cram for every undergraduate exam, one could graduate with an astounding uGPA.
Really? From what school? What courses?

Happy 5th of July!

Maybe you misunderstood-

I knew plenty of students in undergrad who never really learned the premed material, they just crammed for exams, scored well on the exam, and then forgot the info within a week... But, when the MCAT came around, they realized that they never really learned anything, they just used up short term memory. So, I personally know of people with 3.8's that did horrible on the MCAT, because the MCAT tests that you had properly stored information in the first place, and then could apply that information to a situation. It's not that remarkable or unbelieveable, so what is your point? You hear of >3.7 uGPA bombing the MCAT all the time... thats why medical schools use it.

 

[PoddyMan]

Anecdotal and/or seemingly statistical evidence (thanks poddyman) of the MCAT as a predictor of board scores, as well as its function in any capacity to predict how a student could handle professional education is BESIDES THE POINT!! That's not its function!

Medical schools use the MCAT to gauge applicants because it tests critical thinking and intellectual organization! If one had an incredible short term memory and was able to cram for every undergraduate exam, one could graduate with an astounding uGPA. The MCAT tests your ability to learn the right way and take the big/important ideas of the premed science curriculum and apply it to various situations presented on the exam... hence why medical schools need something standardized to compare! I personally would not want a person operating on me who could memorize the textbook, but couldn't apply the information in a suprise situation, and medical schools take that into account... In the long run it probably doesn't mean anything about the type of doctor one will become though, as four years of professional school can mold a still impressionable mind!

I agree with your post regarding the purpose of the MCAT and that it does not predict how good of a doctor one may become.

Furthermore, there are students in Pod school who do extremely well in the coursework but fail the NBPME board exam. Why? Probably because they cram & memorize the material for exams as they did for undergrad and don't "understand" the material (and/or they cheat).

In my opinion, the MCAT doesn't predict how well anyone will do on a professional board test... People will argue that standardized tests serve a role, however, in the case of the MCAT, I can't see it.

Besides the data in the article referenced in an earlier post, at least a few Pod schools have unpublished data that supports whether or not students will pass the professional board exam based upon MCAT performance. You may not think the MCAT has a role, but, aside from the reasons noted by hamlinbeach above, some schools are raising the minimum admission MCAT score as a means to (hopefully) increase their part 1 exam pass rate. Unfortunately, as hamlinbeach stated, schools should be raising the MCAT cutoff score for the following reason: to increase the number of students accepted who can think critically and problem solve, not just to increase NBPME pass rates.

As for the role of standardized tests, the role of the NBPME exams is to "protect the public" (http://www.nbpme.org/FAQ.htm). If you also believe that this set of standardized tests serves no role, then, as hamlinbeach said, I wouldn't want the person who crams and has great short term memory and a high GPA operating on me.

 

[PoddyMan]

Unfortunately podiatry schools don't, but to their credit, they can't. Sadly, as we all know, there just isn't enough applicants to raise the admissions standards, and people are accepted with awful scores.

I disagree; despite the # of students in the admission pool, schools should not be accepting academically poor students just to fill the class. This is reminiscent of what was identified in the famous "Flexner report" nearly 100 years ago that dramatically changed medical education (http://www.carnegiefoundation.org/eLibrary/docs/flexner_report.pdf). If medical schools did not comply with acceptable standards, they went out of business. Nor should schools "push" the matriculating, academically poor student through, who end up failing the board exam and are not able to get a state license to practice.

 

[hamlinbeach]

I disagree; despite the # of students in the admission pool, schools should not be accepting academically poor students just to fill the class. This is reminiscent of what was identified in the famous "Flexner report" nearly 100 years ago that dramatically changed medical education (http://www.carnegiefoundation.org/eLibrary/docs/flexner_report.pdf). If medical schools did not comply with acceptable standards, they went out of business. Nor should schools "push" the matriculating, academically poor student through, who end up failing the board exam and are not able to get a state license to practice.

Yes I agree completely. What I was alluding to was that although the schools should not, as you point out, they still do. Although I personally am happy with my education thus far at Ohio, we went from ~120 students to around 105 in just one year, and there are still students who are struggling/I sense will not pass the boards ('luckily' for them, they can drop down into the 5 year program.. $$). Why is this? Because the school needs to make money to keep its doors open (remember its a non-profit...cough...cough), and cannot do so with an incoming class of 45 qualified students like some of the integrated schools.

That brings me to what you pointed out ("If medical schools did not comply with acceptable standards, they went out of business"). I feel as though the CPME or whoever oversees the schools should have stepped in a long time ago to end this. But, I don't have the slightest idea on how they could realistically step in now, short of just hoping that the admissions pool keeps on growing (and then with increased incoming stats comes increased prestige and increased interest etc...). Mandate that OCPM and NYCPM merge with Case Western or NYU/Columbia/Hofstra etc, respectively..or close down? Mandate that the other schools thoroughly screen prospective students and increase minimum acceptable scores? To me, in the short term this would be horrible if not disasterous, but in the long term would eventually bring the schools to a place where the national pass rate for boards is like 95%. I don't know, I just rambled.... but I'd like to hear other's ideas on it(?)!