Students' evaluations of programs

[compassionate1]

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Hi.

I am looking for a web site where students' experiences at / evaluations of various PhD clinical programs in Psychology can be found. Any idea?

Thanks,

Compassionate1

 

[compassionate1]

http://www.ratemyprofessors.com/SearchProfs.jsp

Here's one, at least for looking up individual professors. Unfortunately I think there needs to be more of this, especially given the horrid rep than many clinical psych programs and profs have for being abusive, but this is a start at least. I think it will probably only bring up profs who teach undergrad courses though. Good luck.

Thanks. I looked up Rate your professor, but as you guessed correctly, had a hard time figuring out if the classes were undergrad or grad.

Since attending a clinical program entails spending several years of your life there, with many more ramifications for the future, I would think that there would be more reviews out there. ( Unless current students are concerned that their identity may be somehow revealed from their responses and do not wish to risk exposure and its dire consequences, in the event they they have something sensitive to say).

Thanks anyway!

Compassionate1

 

[Doctor Eliza]

There are so few students in each program and there is tremendous pressure to make the program look good. Students are not going to stick their necks out even if they are/were extremely unhappy. I also wouldn't think rate my professor would be very useful. Evil profs can be great course instructors but horrible mentors. I think you are going to just have to go to interviews and listen carefully and read between the lines.


Dr. E

 

[LivingOffLoans]

there are so few students in each program and there is tremendous pressure to make the program look good. Students are not going to stick their necks out even if they are/were extremely unhappy. I also wouldn't think rate my professor would be very useful. Evil profs can be great course instructors but horrible mentors. I think you are going to just have to go to interviews and listen carefully and read between the lines.


Dr. E

+1

 

[compassionate1]

There are so few students in each program and there is tremendous pressure to make the program look good. Students are not going to stick their necks out even if they are/were extremely unhappy. I also wouldn't think rate my professor would be very useful. Evil profs can be great course instructors but horrible mentors. I think you are going to just have to go to interviews and listen carefully and read between the lines.


Dr. E

Hmm... As I suspected. I think that the application process is so daunting, that students often forget that it is not a one-sided deal and that interviews are an opportunity for them as well to assess suitability... Happiness is important!

 

[compassionate1]

Actually, it is not only undergrad professors that are rated as I had initially thought, but it still is far from comprehensive. Keep me posted if you find other resources, and I plan to do the same (vice-versa).

Will do.

Compassionate1

 

[Ollie123]

Agree with interviews being the best place to sort this out. There's just way too much variability across individuals for such a system to make sense. One person might LOVE one lab because they publish like crazy...another might hate it because they have high expectations for research and would rather do clinical work. Grad students seem to vary wildly in their sensitivity to feedback...some people are terrified of faculty others aren't bothered by in the slightest. For PhD programs, the mentor usually matters infinitely more than the rest of the program so that's usually going to be the most critical aspect of one's overall experience...but reviewing mentors is obviously VERY personal and entirely inappropriate to do publicly.

 

[Doctor Eliza]

Not sure this is always true. Hopefully some have the backbone to stand up for themselves and share honest feedback, although I agree it is probably in practice the exception and that there currently isn't a lot of data along this line out there.

The thing is, it isn't going to benefit the current student in any way. It isn't a matter of standing up for themselves or backbone. It is taking risk without any personal benefit. Very few people are so altruistic as to put information out there that has the potential to harm them and may or may not help some anonymous reader. One student lied to my face during interviews about the reality of working with the prof I was interviewing with. If she couldn't find it in her heart to be honest with me face to face behind closed doors, I have little hope for anonymous boards.

I understand where you are coming from. I wish there was a good warning system. When students post on this board about wanting to attend my alma mater, I contact them privately and share my experiences. But I would never be willing to post publicly where I went even though it was a miserable experience and I have no positive feelings about my program.

My best advice is to apply to a number of programs that sound good on paper and sort it out on interviews.

Best,
Dr. E

 

[compassionate1]

The thing is, it isn't going to benefit the current student in any way. It isn't a matter of standing up for themselves or backbone. It is taking risk without any personal benefit. Very few people are so altruistic as to put information out there that has the potential to harm them and may or may not help some anonymous reader. One student lied to my face during interviews about the reality of working with the prof I was interviewing with. If she couldn't find it in her heart to be honest with me face to face behind closed doors, I have little hope for anonymous boards.

I understand where you are coming from. I wish there was a good warning system. When students post on this board about wanting to attend my alma mater, I contact them privately and share my experiences. But I would never be willing to post publicly where I went even though it was a miserable experience and I have no positive feelings about my program.

My best advice is to apply to a number of programs that sound good on paper and sort it out on interviews.

Best,
Dr. E

Dr.E.

Thank you for sharing that!

Compassionate1

 

[JustNoticing]

The thing is, it isn't going to benefit the current student in any way. It isn't a matter of standing up for themselves or backbone. It is taking risk without any personal benefit. Very few people are so altruistic as to put information out there that has the potential to harm them and may or may not help some anonymous reader. One student lied to my face during interviews about the reality of working with the prof I was interviewing with. If she couldn't find it in her heart to be honest with me face to face behind closed doors, I have little hope for anonymous boards.

I understand where you are coming from. I wish there was a good warning system. When students post on this board about wanting to attend my alma mater, I contact them privately and share my experiences. But I would never be willing to post publicly where I went even though it was a miserable experience and I have no positive feelings about my program.

My best advice is to apply to a number of programs that sound good on paper and sort it out on interviews.

Best,
Dr. E

Yea, you can really quickly tell the differences between programs and mentors on interview day from my experience.

 

[compassionate1]

Yea, you can really quickly tell the differences between programs and mentors on interview day from my experience.

However, it is not easy to focus on making the right kind of impression and putting your best self forth while simultaneously being in an observer mode. Many students are too nervous during an interview to be able to achieve this dual task. Negative vibes about a place may be easily confused with the normal anxiety experienced in such circumstances.

 

[ResearchGirlie]

Handling interview anxiety can be really difficult but one thing you should remember is that grad students hold a lot of valuable information. Everyone should take the chance to talk to current students, especially those in the lab you are applying to. Too often applicants are so worried about getting in that they either completely disregard info graduate students give or don't even ask. Try and make yourself sit down with students and ask how they like the program. It's a good way to get info and a good way to spend a few minutes not talking about yourself (I was so tired talking about myself that any time listening to others was much appreciated).

 

[Doctor Eliza]

However, it is not easy to focus on making the right kind of impression and putting your best self forth while simultaneously being in an observer mode. Many students are too nervous during an interview to be able to achieve this dual task. Negative vibes about a place may be easily confused with the normal anxiety experienced in such circumstances.

True. However, after offers are made, you will be able to recontact students and ask more questions with a clearer head. I also think being a little more removed from interview weekend you will be able to think about things more objectively.

And hey, you have a few more months before you have to worry about this. Right now you just have to worry about getting those apps in! 🙂

Best,
Dr. E

 

[Psychadelic2012]

I'm not sure anyone can discern the full experience of a program from an interview, or even at any depth before entering the program, for that matter. Applicants are really in a one-down position all around--who, really, gets so many offers that they can choose to decide based on actual honesty from other graduate students? That is, after you make a priority list based on match, location, funding, opportunities, etc.? It's a really crappy situation for applicants, which is why so many current students are so miserable, I think--most are not in a place where they can make the absolute best choice and be truly happy.

Not sure there will ever be any kind of resource for the OP and others, but perhaps a solution is to post anonymously (for your own protection) which program(s) you're interested in and solicit private feedback.

 

[compassionate1]

I'm not sure anyone can discern the full experience of a program from an interview, or even at any depth before entering the program, for that matter. Applicants are really in a one-down position all around--who, really, gets so many offers that they can choose to decide based on actual honesty from other graduate students? That is, after you make a priority list based on match, location, funding, opportunities, etc.? It's a really crappy situation for applicants, which is why so many current students are so miserable, I think--most are not in a place where they can make the absolute best choice and be truly happy.

Not sure there will ever be any kind of resource for the OP and others, but perhaps a solution is to post anonymously (for your own protection) which program(s) you're interested in and solicit private feedback.

Dr. E. and Psychadelic: I thank you both!

 

[bmedclinic]

I'd like to interject, regarding Dr Eliza's point.

I love my major professor. We have a good relationship.....now.
He's won more than a few awards for being a great professor at the undergrad level- students all find him very relatable, awesome, etc.

But, it's academics. When #$%^ hit the fan and I got thrown under the bus, my life was miserable. He didnt help (and he totally could have but he bought what he was told). All this to say having a highly rated professor means nothing. Having grad students who rate QOL might actually mean something.

 

[paramour]

As an example of how open we are with feedback, I just deleted my carefully worded post regarding my experiences (and this was after removing all potential identifying words, pronouns, etc.).

Otherwise, I'm going to leave my post to read:

I agree 1000% with bmed. :thumbsup:

 

[wigflip]

I'm not sure anyone can discern the full experience of a program from an interview, or even at any depth before entering the program, for that matter.

Yeah. One of the folks who sold me on my program dropped out several months later. My insider experience has been very different from what I heard from current students when I was a prospective. Now I run from providing any kind of candid feedback to prospectives. It's too risky to be honest and too sleazy to lie.

 

[wigflip]

As an example of how open we are with feedback, I just deleted my carefully worded post regarding my experiences (and this was after removing all potential identifying words, pronouns, etc.).

I did too! I provided a little anecdote which bit the dust when my common sense kicked in.

 

[futureapppsy2]

I think that maybe a better way to look at choosing a PhD (esp. a funded one) is to look at it like taking a job offer. You want a company and boss that will put you in the career path you want and will generally be supportive of your development, of course, and you pick the company you do based on the impression you get from the interview and how it aligns with your career goals, to the extent you have options. Sometimes, there are jobs or bosses that are such a poor fit you leave. Sometimes, there are jobs and bosses that are wonderful. Most of the time, it's in-between those--a mix of positives and negatives. I think some people (speaking in general) expect graduate school to be five years of "life of the mind" and "helping people," and fail to realize that in some regards, it's more like an entry level position with the aim of training you to be competitive for higher level jobs latter (but with no guarantee of getting them). And, like any job, not everything is going to go swimmingly every day.

 

[paramour]

Yeah. One of the folks who sold me on my program dropped out several months later. My insider experience has been very different from what I heard from current students when I was a prospective. Now I run from providing any kind of candid feedback to prospectives. It's too risky to be honest and too sleazy to lie.

Same here. I often redirect the question to another person nearby, indicating they may be better suited to answer. Or that I'm not the most appropriate individual to answer due to x, y, or z. I've become a master of evasion. 😀

I did too! I provided a little anecdote which bit the dust when my common sense kicked in.

Yeeah, I find myself doing more of this as of late. When I start staring at my screen intensely, I realize that there's probably something there that shouldn't be.

 

[deleted190534]

I agree with a number of the things I've read in this thread. Many grad students won't stick their necks out to tell applicants (whom they've just met…& have no reason to trust) the truths about the program in question. This can be a combination of fear of backlash & a staunch programmatic culture of keeping your mouth shut & making a program look good. I'm at the end of my grad student tenure & have been treated very badly (i.e., abusive), yet I have never let on to applicants. I know better. We're "trained" about what to say & how to say it (e.g., flakey advisor who doesn’t meet deadlines &/or can make it difficult for a student to complete milestones on schedule can be described as an advisor that "won't hold your hand & expects you to work independently"). As the years have gone on, I've dealt with my conscience by saying less & less to applicants...by being more passive during the interview process. I refuse to directly lie about anything, so I just sweat bullets as I hope that the applicants don't ask anything directly that I can't comfortably tell a "somewhat truth" about. Yet I’m a nice person who is easy to be comfortable around, so I think it’s easy for applicants to miss the general “tone” of the program or lab. One year, an applicant (whom I will always remember as particularly savvy) came close to blowing us grad students' cover. The applicant asked, "Do you like Dr. _______"? The silence was deafening...until one of the grad students fumbled to say something palatable & kind of true. I was impressed with the clarity of that applicant's question. With the knowledge I now have, I would ask an entirely different set of questions if applying again. Namely, I would ask things like, “How does Dr. __________ treat you”? or “Have you been able to complete your milestones in a timely manner”? or “Where have Dr. _________’s prior students ended up”? or “How well does Dr. ________ maintain collaborative relationships with his/her prior grad students”? (etc.) Even if the grad student opts for a PC response, you should be able to tell a lot by HOW the grad student responds & what the grad student does NOT say. And P.S., don’t assume you can tell how an advisor would be based on niceties at interviews. I can tell you from personal experience that some people are highly skilled at first impressions or impressions made in distant, low-contact relationships, but unable to keep their cover once you’re in the folds of the program & have heavy/frequent contact with them. Like me, you can successfully complete a program with a horrible, flakey, abusive advisor, but your advisor is pretty much the determining factor in what type of grad school experience you’ll have & whether or not you’ll have the opportunities necessary to pursue your desired career path. Bottom line: be alert, pay attention, & don’t allow your desperation to get into grad school make you blind to all the clues being doled out on interview day.

 

[wigflip]

I agree with a number of the things I've read in this thread. Many grad students won't stick their necks out to tell applicants (whom they've just met…& have no reason to trust) the truths about the program in question. This can be a combination of fear of backlash & a staunch programmatic culture of keeping your mouth shut & making a program look good. I'm at the end of my grad student tenure & have been treated very badly (i.e., abusive), yet I have never let on to applicants. I know better. We're "trained" about what to say & how to say it (e.g., flakey advisor who doesn’t meet deadlines &/or can make it difficult for a student to complete milestones on schedule can be described as an advisor that "won't hold your hand & expects you to work independently"). As the years have gone on, I've dealt with my conscience by saying less & less to applicants...by being more passive during the interview process. I refuse to directly lie about anything, so I just sweat bullets as I hope that the applicants don't ask anything directly that I can't comfortably tell a "somewhat truth" about. Yet I’m a nice person who is easy to be comfortable around, so I think it’s easy for applicants to miss the general “tone” of the program or lab. One year, an applicant (whom I will always remember as particularly savvy) came close to blowing us grad students' cover. The applicant asked, "Do you like Dr. _______"? The silence was deafening...until one of the grad students fumbled to say something palatable & kind of true. I was impressed with the clarity of that applicant's question. With the knowledge I now have, I would ask an entirely different set of questions if applying again. Namely, I would ask things like, “How does Dr. __________ treat you”? or “Have you been able to complete your milestones in a timely manner”? or “Where have Dr. _________’s prior students ended up”? or “How well does Dr. ________ maintain collaborative relationships with his/her prior grad students”? (etc.) Even if the grad student opts for a PC response, you should be able to tell a lot by HOW the grad student responds & what the grad student does NOT say. And P.S., don’t assume you can tell how an advisor would be based on niceties at interviews. I can tell you from personal experience that some people are highly skilled at first impressions or impressions made in distant, low-contact relationships, but unable to keep their cover once you’re in the folds of the program & have heavy/frequent contact with them. Like me, you can successfully complete a program with a horrible, flakey, abusive advisor, but your advisor is pretty much the determining factor in what type of grad school experience you’ll have & whether or not you’ll have the opportunities necessary to pursue your desired career path. Bottom line: be alert, pay attention, & don’t allow your desperation to get into grad school make you blind to all the clues being doled out on interview day.

That is one of the most candid, most helpful posts I've ever read on this forum.