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Studying in the Netherlands

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Senne12

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Hello All,

I am interested in applying to medical school in the Netherlands. I am an American undergraduate. I will graduate either Fall 2010 or Spring 2009 with a Biology B.S with a focus in genetics.
I know that there is a lottery system for entering medical school in Holland about you have I believe three chances to apply. I would like to know:

1. the best way to increase my chances
2. what the top medical schools are
3. Is the American medical degree favored (should i just study in US and then go to holland)
4. Should I do a masters program in science in a dutch university (will this increase my chances to get in)
5. As an American student what kind of qualifications are the medical schools looking for? GPA? Exams? Experiences? Research?

I am to make sure I get in to a top medical school.

Thank you all for any help you can give me!!!
 

shreypete

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Check out University of Groningen. They have some sort of an english basic sciences program (which is still medicine) and it's in ENGLISH!!! It's really surprising because this is the only university that apparently offers such a program. During the course of 3 years, you can also take Dutch language courses to become fluent (unless you're already fluent to start with) and then can apply to other medical schools in the Netherlands for the clinical segment of study (years 4-6). And once you're done with that, you can register with the Dutch medical board.

Doesn't that sound PERFECT!!! now the draw-back - it costs 32K EUR!!! for non-EU/EEA citizens :( :( But if you can afford it, I'd definitely recommend it.

http://www.rug.nl/umcg/informatieVoor/internationalisering/International/index
 

TDX

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To start, you'll need to know a little bit about the system here.

In The Netherlands, we use the European model instead of the US model. That means you start as an undergrad and don't need a bachelor's degree to get in.

Getting your MD takes 6 years, with 3 years of mainly theoretical coursework (which earns you a bachelor's in medicine) and 3 years with a focus on internships. While the two are fairly distinct, students are more or less expected to do both at the same university.

If you finish the undergrad phase, you won't need to pass selection again to get into the grad phase. But since the undergrad phase is integrated with the grad phase, you pretty much need to do the undergrad phase at a Dutch university in order to be able to do the grad phase.

There are 2 ways to get selected. There's the "lottery", and there's decentralized selection.

Your chances in the lottery are typically determined by your VWO (Dutch secondary education) scores, but since you don't have those, your BSc would probably get you into the "C" class. Without going into details, that would give you around 20-25% chance of getting in.

So, you'd want to go for the decentralized selection instead. To get through the decentralized selection, you'll have to apply to specific universities. There is no single determinant of whether you get in or not. Rather, your entire CV is looked at. A degree helps, research helps, ec activities help, relevant work experience helps, etc. Your GPA and MCAT scores are mostly useless, though.

The differences between the medical programs in The Netherlands aren't all that big, and none of the standard ones are considered more prestigious than the others. Individual merit is what counts more than anything.

The American medical degree is not favored. If you choose to get an MD in the US and want to practice medicine in The Netherlands, you'll have to pass additional assessment. This might take a year or more. Other foreign degrees regularly require starting from square one.

Personally, I'd advise against the program at the University of Groningen that Shreypete mentioned. Last I heard, over 60% of the students in that program failed their midterms, compared to 10-20% in the Dutch program.
 

shreypete

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Hey TDX,
That's good info. I never knew that about the University of Groningen. Besides, it's too expensive too (around 32K EUR)

I have a specific question. What if you did your medical degree in Europe but are a non-EU citizen. What are the job prospects for those category of students? In case I don't get in to the US, Netherlands is one of my options (apart from France and Sweden) but all I heard is that students take a Clinical assessment test (including 2 parts --the first part dealing with the Dutch language and healthcare and the 2nd part, dealing with specific medical knowledge from the Clinical years) and apparently upon passing this one has to go through the practical part (Where they rotate around 12-14 stations and have to make the right diagnosis with patients (who are mostly actors).

So would I have to go through all of this procedure? What are the prospects or the training scenario currently for non-EU citizen, EU medical students? I heard that a lot of doctors are flocking to the US. Is that true?
 

TDX

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You'd have to go through assessment if you studied elsewhere. Your citizenship doesn't matter, but your qualifications do. If those are from a non-EU country, you'll have to pass assessment to prove that you are qualified to practice medicine here.

As for doctors flocking to the US... not at all. In fact, I can't come up with even a single example. There are many Dutch doctors who do (temporary) fellowships abroad, though.
 

shreypete

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I see. That is strange as one of the doctors gave me a different impression. I guess the working conditions are good in the Netherlands then (including the salaries). But isn't it getting too crowded now?

So I guess I have to now learn the language in order to apply. I will be graduating from an EU country so I don't think that's a problem really.

Thanks for all your help. I appreciate it.
 

drstarter

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I checked their website and it seems quite nice, plus the university is ranked highly in the world, especially in medicine and the EU fees is only just over a grand euros.. but the only downside is that the 'masters' program or the 3 year clinicals REQUIRE dutch. meh will stick with Charles and hope I land a training spot in netherlands in the future

All the best!
 

Rooseleer

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If you don't get allotted a place in the Netherlands, you could also consider Flanders (part of Belgium), which is just south of the Netherlands (also Dutch spoken). In Flanders there isn't a lottery system, but you will have to perform an exam in order to be accepted in med school.

The best university in Flanders is the Catholic University of Leuven.

Website (in english) http://www.kuleuven.be/english/
 

v1ss1

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Interesting thread! I 've heard that Netherlands have a very good medical system, though I don't know any details. Does anyone happen to know a bit more on how to enter into a residency programme there?
 

shreypete

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Well apparently as an EU grad, you won't have to undergo any probationary period or extra exams. But as a non-EU grad, you would have to take an exam called the "Clinical Skills Assessment test" comprised of 2 parts: Part 1 focuses on the language, medical knowledge and the medical system/structure in the Netherlands while Part 2 is more practical oriented (slightly similar to the USMLE Step 2 CS but a lot easier.)

Either way, language is a requirement for all graduates (one must take the NT2 exam - Nederlands als Tweede Taal) and upon completion of this course, you can do an additional medical language course (offered by Groningen Medical University I think) and then you have to register yourself in the register. Once registered, you're eligible to apply for a residency. This is all I've gotten so far. I would still like to find out more about the statistics of non-EU citizens getting into competitive fields.
 
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116408

If you are an EU grad or have gone through the process of registering as a non-EU, you can apply individually to a residency program. These are hospital or regional based, so not like the CARMS in Canada or matching in the US.

The competitive between the fields varies hugely. Generally it's easier to get into community medicine, geriatrics, internal medicine and social medicine. As for the more competitive fields, it's definitely possible if you have a strong profile. Most applicants work first for a year in a non-residency position (ANIOS) before applying, or do paid phd program. As there is not centralized agency doing the matching (see how big the country is .. ) the program directors or regional program board make the decision of acceptance or denial. To be honest, if you don't speak the language sufficiently you can forget getting into a competitive field. Dutch grad's also find it tough to get in.

As for people flocking to the U.S. This is not true. And it's very hard to transition back to the US. Basically you would have to redo your residency. For Canada and Australia it's a bit easier as they are in need of trained physicians. As for the EU, as long as you speak the language you can go wherever.

If you have any questions, just drop me a message - i know how tough it is getting good info
 
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116408

Just found this by chance:

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Everyone who wants to work as a medical doctor or as a medical specialist in the Netherlands first has to be licensed to practise medicine in the Netherlands. This is also the case if you want to follow a training to become a medical specialist in the Netherlands. This is controlled by the Dutch Ministery of Public Health (VWS) and the organisation that has to be contacted is the B.I.G.-REGISTER . http://www.bigregister.nl

Licencing is obligatory for Dutch doctors as well as foreign doctors. For subjects of a country belonging to the European Union this is usually a formality. Due to European legislation, membershipstates have to recognise each other=s diploma=s and certificates. Otherwise a special procedure is followed.


FOR MEDICAL SPECIALIST
Training as a medical specialist usually takes place in a clinic of a hospital. These clinics as well as the supervisors who work there, have to be officially approved by the MSRC
Lists of approved training facilities are available on the office of the MSRC. The MSRC does not mediate between candidates and training facilities.

Persons NOT belonging to the European Union:
If you are not a subject of a country belonging to the European Union (EU) or your doctorsdiploma is not obtained in membershipstate of the EU, the decree no. 1-1983 chapter A and C of the Central College for Registration of Medical Specialists applies.

•the foreign doctor has to send a formal request to the Medical Specialist Registration Committee (MSRC) together with information concerning training and education as a doctor and possible additional training, as well as a certified copy of your diploma as a doctor.
•the foreign doctor has to pass a special test in the Dutch language. These tests are organized by the MSRC about 4 times a year;
•then a place has to be found for the training as a medical specialist by a Dutch approved medical specialist (supervisor) in an MSRC-approved training facility for the concerning specialism . As soon as you have found such a facility for the training, you have to inform the MSRC about this. You cannot start with the training yet;
•all the infomation so far obtained, will be presented to the Executive Committee of the MSRC. The Executive Committee will evaluate the presented information. The ministery of Public Health will also be informed about the findings of this committee;
•if the Executive Committee of the MSRC decides that everything is correct, you have to be licensed to practise medicine by the Dutch Minister of Public Health. So the start of the training is only possible after approval by the Executive Committee of the MSRC and with permission of the Minister of Public Health.
•If the training is judged positively the request for registration will be evaluated by the Executive Committee of the MSRC. If everthing is correct, registration as a medical specialist in The Netherlands can only take place after you have obtained a full licence to practise medicine by the Dutch Minister of Public Health .

Regarding item ì of this letter the following documents have to be presented:

•a copy of your primary qualification (doctor's diploma). This copy has to be certified by the authority which has issued the diploma. A translation in Dutch of this diploma by a certified translator is required.
•a full curriculum vitae;
•if applicable, statement(s) of your trainer(s), in which the duration and contents of the training period(s) must be mentioned;
•if applicable to the training for which you want to be registered, a full survey of operations and performances;
•a survey of possible theoretical courses attended by you;
•a survey of possible scientific lectures held and/or scientific papers written by you;
 
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Atilda123

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Iam a non EU graduate hoping to register in the BIG register as my partner is Dutch . I find almost no info regarding the assessment online so thank you guys !
Right now iam taking Dutch language classes here and would like to know more about the test pattern/syllabus for the big register as I want to prepare for that as well . All the doctors I meet here are native Dutch who cant help me with that as they obviously dont have to go through the assessment though they are friendly as hell :)
.Anyone with info/ experience?
Thanks
 
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Torsade6

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Iam a non EU graduate hoping to register in the BIG register as my partner is Dutch . I find almost no info regarding the assessment online so thank you guys !
Right now iam taking Dutch language classes here and would like to know more about the test pattern/syllabus for the big register as I want to prepare for that as well . All the doctors I meet here are native Dutch who cant help me with that as they obviously dont have to go through the assessment though they are friendly as hell :)
.Anyone with info/ experience?
Thanks

Hey! I got the same problem here and have been searching the forums since a week now. Please let me know about this too.
Am also taking Dutch lessons rt now.
I also have another question for the forum people. What are the books that we need to go through for Big registration exams? Any idea?

Thanks
 

sustentaculum

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Anyone know what the lifestyle of Netherlands specialist is like compared to U.S. specialist? According to a NY Times study in 2004, it seems like pay of specialist is same or better than U.S. equivalents, though GPs make less than U.S. counterparts. But what about with higher taxes? And what does the future look like compared to U.S.?

Also, how much do internal medicine residents make in Holland?
 

StephenA

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I am a non-EU citizen graduated from a non-EU University. I'd love to get a training to be a specialist in the Netherlands. To do this, I understand I'd have to get a validation for my diploma. Do I have to get employed in the Clinic/Hospital approved by the MSRC before registering?
 

john182

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Anyone know what the lifestyle of Netherlands specialist is like compared to U.S. specialist? According to a NY Times study in 2004, it seems like pay of specialist is same or better than U.S. equivalents, though GPs make less than U.S. counterparts. But what about with higher taxes? And what does the future look like compared to U.S.?

Also, how much do internal medicine residents make in Holland?

Salaries can vary depending on type of practice but they are largely standardised for regular hospital salaries jobs. Working weeks are 36hr or 45hr; e.g., gross €8-10k per month at the top of the scale (usualy 4-5 years after finishing residency). Taxes vary according to circumstances but there are lots of things the government allows as deductible. If you do lots of extra private work in a field like ortho or something, then of course you make much more. From what I've seen, it's usually €100-200k range for specialists, depending obv. on which field and workign pattern.
 
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Rida

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Hello there, I was researching about some course in The Netherlands, so I came across a message you had written.
I live in Ireland and in my final year of school.
If you don't mind, can you help me out a little bit?

I was wondering which universities are better for studying Undergraduate Medicine - University of Maastricht or University of Groningen?Also which university would be harder to get an admission in to?
Thank you!
 

Kemelle

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Hello everyone, I'm a prospective student of Groningen University and next month I'll be flying there for my test. I have no idea what the test will be like and I am hoping someone could give me an idea of what to expect. Oh, also I would like to know how many days I'll have spend there. Thanks a lot!
 

shane2

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hello there .
I was searching about how you can make your training as a psychiatrist in the Netherlands . What i would like to know is how important is to work as an ANIOS in a
psychiatry related position in NL before applying for training , or work experience - research - articles -master studies in a EU country ( I am from EU with an EU M.D. Diploma )would also be an option for improving my CV for getting accepted in a Psychiatry training in NL . Any info appreciated . I know that i have to be BIG registered and also speak fluid Dutch (also because of the nature of the job ) before i even consider to apply .
I am wondering about just applying in the training after going on for a master in Psychiatry in EU or do a year on a ANIOS psychiatry position first in Nl.
Thank you very much at advance .
Please point me in to another spot of the forum if this is not the right spot
 

croatiangirl

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hello there!!
I'm student from Croatia, 5th year of medical school, and lately I was introduced with Erasmus internship programme. My colleague friend and I like Netherlands very much, and are VERY interested in doing internship in Netherlands in summer months at any of your hospitals if that is possible. Any information is appreciated! thank you! :)
 

Elizabeth1

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You should also start learning Dutch. it will not only help you when you get there, but will also improve your application.
 

Dannielachg

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Hi! I am a premed currently studying my bachelors in the US. However, I would like to study medicine in the Netherlands. What are the steps to apply and if, anyone knows, where are the best places to study dutch in the US
 
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