Studying Overseas - Caribbean vs. Ireland?

[starstrike]

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Hi everyone,

After three unsuccessful applications with Canadian schools, I am seriously studying internationally to pursue medicine. I understand that the chances of coming back home for residency are greatly reduced (95% vs ~20% --> and even that much more difficult in a specialty other than family medicine). However, I honestly feel it is pointless to keep applying locally, especially with applications being so competitive (and there being a degree of "luck" in the process).

I have applied to the US, Caribbean, and Ireland so far this year (in addition to UBC where I am IP). I am not holding my breath for the US (have yet to year anything positive, so I doubt I will hear anything this late in the game).

I am honoured to have received offers from SGU in Grenada and Ross so far in Dominica. I am waiting on hearing back from the Atlantic Bridge about Ireland. What my question to you all here is, how do you choose between Ireland and the Caribbean? (I recognize responses may be biased seeing as I'm posting in the Caribbean subsection, but I figure I might as well ask!)

It seems SGU is basically the best of the Caribbean schools - and perhaps RCSI is one of the best in Ireland. What are the pros/cons of each? Is it better to go to SGU because the clerkship years are conducted in the US/Canada? (whereas in Ireland all 4 years are in Dublin/Limerick/Cork).

I would really appreciate any thoughts or input that any of you may have!

Thanks!

StarStrike

 

[tartesos]

Best of luck.
Try also applying to do schools in USA.

Ireland is a better choice than any Caribbean school( except Puerto Rico of course)

 

[starstrike]

Best of luck.
Try also applying to do schools in USA.

Ireland is a better choice than any Caribbean school( except Puerto Rico of course)

Thanks!

Would you be able to explain in more detail why Ireland is a better option than the Caribbean? I'm tryjng to weigh the pros and cons but I find there is way more information about the Caribbean than there is with Ireland... I am not sure what to make of the quality of the education, chances of matching to Canada (or the US), etc.

Similarly, I hear with DO you cant practice fully in Canada? Apparently they are recognized in some provinces like BC and Ontario...but I'm not sure whether you're able to practice Anywhere outside of family medicine. Similarly, I also hear that DOs are now going to be considered IMGs in Canada... Is that true? (Ie they will match in later rounds like Irish and Caribbean grads).

Any thoughts? I would love to hear your input!

Thanks for your help! I really appreciate it!

 

[Skip Intro]

Personally? I've never met a U.S.IMG doc who's trained at a European school, except for one (who trained in Poland... and is a close friend). I've met 2 who trained in Australia, and that was still pretty rare (as well as almost 10 years ago).

It's all about the numbers, my friend. No one can say definitively that "Ireland is a better choice than any Caribbean school( except Puerto Rico of course)" because it is very individual. I can tell you that if you don't do clerkships in the U.S., it's going to be a lot tougher to get a spot. Connections = (some sense of) security.

Good luck!

-Skip

 

[NotAProgDirector]

Neither is "better" than another. Each comes with unique issues/challenges.

SGU uses a US curriculum, and is specifically targeted to the USMLE exams. The clinical rotations are all in the US, but (in general) at more community oriented programs although many of these have residency programs. So you will get lots of "face time" at US programs and this can be helpful for matching, although at less competitive programs. The rotations are basically set up for you, so all you need to do is show up and perform well. You get an MD.

RCSI (or other Irish programs) is really designed to train physicians for Ireland. Although the teaching is similar, you will likely need to do some additional studying for the USMLE. I am often told that the irish schools tend to favor clinical teaching (i.e. physical exam, history, etc) over facts (which is what the USMLE tests), but I can't confirm or deny this. Your clinical rotations will be in Ireland, but you will be able to set up US/Canadian electives but only in your last year of school, and you'll need to set them up yourself. There may be a legal/practical limit to the number of rotations you can do away. Timing is also an issue -- if your final year starts in July (like the US system) you may find it difficult to arrange rotations for July-September as that's when the US student demand is at its peak. Rotations later than that won't generate LOR's in time for the application season. If your school year runs Jan-December, then you'll be able to do US rotations Jan - June when there is plenty of room, but will end up graduating and having a 6 month hole while you await internship which starts in July. You'll need to arrange this all yourself, but might be able to snag a rotation at a better site. You'll graduate with an MBBS or similar, which is equivalent to an MD but still "different".

 

[bambi]

Why not look at Australia too? A friend of mine didn't get into med school in Canada, went to Australia and is a surgical resident in Canada now. Fine it's only one person but she didn't really have any trouble getting in back home. She did a few months as an intern in Australia because the school year was different but was able to leave to go back to Canada without problems.

If you have the stats to apply to Canada why not consider UK schools? I know plenty of people that have done med school here, those from here and not, and are now doing residency, in the US though rather than Canada.

Although just my opinion I imagine at least some people would consider all of these places better than the Caribbean. Caribbean school exist only for people who couldn't get in at home whereas the others are for people who are the strongest students in these countries. With UK and Australian schools you will be able to do electives in the US, likely at more desirable places than most Caribbean students rotate at but the time in the US will obviously be less. The Caribbean is however likely the only place where you wont have to do loads of extra USMLE prep on your own so that is something to consider.

 

[starstrike]

Why not look at Australia too? A friend of mine didn't get into med school in Canada, went to Australia and is a surgical resident in Canada now. Fine it's only one person but she didn't really have any trouble getting in back home. She did a few months as an intern in Australia because the school year was different but was able to leave to go back to Canada without problems.

If you have the stats to apply to Canada why not consider UK schools? I know plenty of people that have done med school here, those from here and not, and are now doing residency, in the US though rather than Canada.

Although just my opinion I imagine at least some people would consider all of these places better than the Caribbean. Caribbean school exist only for people who couldn't get in at home whereas the others are for people who are the strongest students in these countries. With UK and Australian schools you will be able to do electives in the US, likely at more desirable places than most Caribbean students rotate at but the time in the US will obviously be less. The Caribbean is however likely the only place where you wont have to do loads of extra USMLE prep on your own so that is something to consider.

I've looked into Australia - if applications weren't already closed I definitely would've included this in addition to Ireland and the Caribbean. Though I hear, between Ireland, Caribbean, and Australia, Australia is the hardest to come back from (not sure if this is true....some people also attribute this to the difficulty of obtaining an internship in Australia should you be unable to land a residency in the US or Canada).

The UK is an entirely different beast isn't it? I would need to write the UKCAT or BMAT...and getting into a UK school would be as difficult as getting into a medical school locally I would think. What are you basing your opinion of the Caribbean on? (e.g. how do you know that you will/would rotate at more desirable places in the UK/Australia than the Caribbean schools?).

I appreciate your thoughts.

Thanks,

SS

 

[bambi]

I've looked into Australia - if applications weren't already closed I definitely would've included this in addition to Ireland and the Caribbean. Though I hear, between Ireland, Caribbean, and Australia, Australia is the hardest to come back from (not sure if this is true....some people also attribute this to the difficulty of obtaining an internship in Australia should you be unable to land a residency in the US or Canada).

The UK is an entirely different beast isn't it? I would need to write the UKCAT or BMAT...and getting into a UK school would be as difficult as getting into a medical school locally I would think. What are you basing your opinion of the Caribbean on? (e.g. how do you know that you will/would rotate at more desirable places in the UK/Australia than the Caribbean schools?).

I appreciate your thoughts.

Thanks,

SS

UKCAT and BMAT aren't a big deal, just a hoop to jump through. Yes UK schools would be similar to applying at home but if you have the stats why not? Plus cost of application is practically nothing.

If you look around the boards you can see the type of places Caribbean students rotate at, if you are just a foreign student applying for an elective you can go almost anywhere, there are only a few places that only allow elective students from specific schools they have links with.

 

[Skip Intro]

Welcome back, bambi. Are you hear to lecture us again about how much better the UK system is than every other educational system in the world? Just curious.

🙂

-Skip

 

[bambi]

Welcome back, bambi. Are you hear to lecture us again about how much better the UK system is than every other educational system in the world? Just curious.

🙂

-Skip

I'm not sure I have ever said that! In fact I have said how great I think Australian schools are in the past! Saying that, we are better clinically than certain other countries, and we should be as we are more heavily tested clinically! When I am one of the few here actually able to compare, expressing that view when relevant is more than reasonable. Sorry if your ego can't take it.

 

[Skip Intro]

Sorry if your ego can't take it.

MY ego? This has nothing to do with my ego.

A reminder...

http://forums.studentdoctor.net/thr...nity-school-of-medicine.964418/#post-13719643

-Skip

 

[bambi]

Right....
Seems I am saying we are better than the US in some things, not everywhere in the world. In the US, you are taught to think you are the best to the point where you are incapable of seeing the good in anywhere else. It's a shame really. There are great things to US medical education, but other places do certain things better, deal with it.

 

[starstrike]

UKCAT and BMAT aren't a big deal, just a hoop to jump through. Yes UK schools would be similar to applying at home but if you have the stats why not? Plus cost of application is practically nothing.

If you look around the boards you can see the type of places Caribbean students rotate at, if you are just a foreign student applying for an elective you can go almost anywhere, there are only a few places that only allow elective students from specific schools they have links with.

Hi Bambi,

Good point - though to be honest, if my stats were good enough to get in at home, I would most likely train at home (especially since I would like to practice in Canada, preferably in my own province). I am not sure whether I would have a decent chance getting into the UK - my overall GPA is ~80.5% (AMCAS is ~3.35-3.40). I believe my ECs are good - I have been close to getting an interview at UBC, but not close enough (for each rejection, they grade you metrically and give you a score - I've missed the mark by ~3-4 points out of a score /100).

With respect to the second point, would you mind giving some examples and comparisons? I've briefly glanced over where SGU grads rotate and it seems they still do rotate in fairly competitive programs associated with relatively large schools/hospitals (even Yale, Harvard, etc.). I am not sure if the point you're trying to make with respect to UK schools and the Caribbean is clear...I would appreciate your thoughts (or maybe some guidance on where specifically I should look).

Similarly, is there any information about Australia that you can point me too? Most of what I've seen and read has me worried about studying there...I've heard horror stories about people not being able to match, not being able to get an internship in Australia, etc. I am not sure how true the fear mongering is (and how bad it is compared to say the Caribbean or Ireland)...so again I'm more than happy to learn more about my different options.

Thanks,

SS

 

[bambi]

The regular rotation sites of the Caribbean schools are not places like Harvard and Yale, one person might have gone once for one elective. Actual core rotations are done at little community places, or at least smaller names. Look around on here a bit and you will see. Anyone from the UK or similar countries bothering with the fuss of doing electives in the US will only go to big names and wont struggle to get electives there. Friends of mine from "lesser" countries were told their applications to do electives at Harvard wouldn't even be looked at because they had too many, whereas UK friends had no trouble getting electives at the same time.

From what I have seen/heard, although my friend did part of an internship in Australia, I don't think you can go there thinking you will ever be able to work there. If it's just the medical degree you are after I think it's a good choice. My knowledge is limited but from what I have seen the students there are pretty good. I would have gone to Australia if I didn't get in in the UK.

If your stats are close to those needed for school in Canada, they are close to what you would need in the UK. The application process and cost are much easier/less than most places. If you could afford the tuition I would definitely recommend applying, you don't really have anything to lose.

 

[starstrike]

The regular rotation sites of the Caribbean schools are not places like Harvard and Yale, one person might have gone once for one elective. Actual core rotations are done at little community places, or at least smaller names. Look around on here a bit and you will see. Anyone from the UK or similar countries bothering with the fuss of doing electives in the US will only go to big names and wont struggle to get electives there. Friends of mine from "lesser" countries were told their applications to do electives at Harvard wouldn't even be looked at because they had too many, whereas UK friends had no trouble getting electives at the same time.

From what I have seen/heard, although my friend did part of an internship in Australia, I don't think you can go there thinking you will ever be able to work there. If it's just the medical degree you are after I think it's a good choice. My knowledge is limited but from what I have seen the students there are pretty good. I would have gone to Australia if I didn't get in in the UK.

If your stats are close to those needed for school in Canada, they are close to what you would need in the UK. The application process and cost are much easier/less than most places. If you could afford the tuition I would definitely recommend applying, you don't really have anything to lose.

Hi Bambi you're right that they're not regular sites. Some people do snag them, but you're right that many of them tend to be community places and "smaller names"...however I would think that this would be more closely tied to one's performance on the USMLE (and connection to the hospital) would it not? I know reputation plays a role (and the UK undoubtedly wins there), but my understanding of this is that it is basically tertiary to one's USMLE and LORs (which I believe the Caribbean would give students a better shot at, given that they're trained specifically to do well on the USMLEs and also because their clerkship years are all spent in North America).

I completely understand the points you are trying to make, but quite honestly I don't know or think it is fair to automatically assume or state that the Caribbean is a "lesser" country. There is no doubt that it is not a 1st world country (at least not like North America, UK, Australia, etc.) and also that the country has some pretty shady schools - however, there are also some excellent programs there from what I have gathered during my own research (e.g. SGU).

My point about Australia isn't so much about wanting to work there. At this point, my intention is not to practice in any international destination outside of the US and Canada. The point I was trying to make is that many Australia grads have been "stranded" so to speak after their training. If they weren't the cream of the crop or were unfortunate enough to not obtain a NA residency, they would be stuck. From what I understanding applying for an internship year in Australia is tricky (and even then I believe you are capped at 1-2 years). Apparently this is easier in Ireland and the UK, but again that limitation still applies. Of course many Caribbean grads also have been (and can become) "stuck" following their training, however, they have the advantage of being trained to do well on the USMLE and possibly getting a good character LOR from their clerkship sites (e.g. by virtue of spending more time in the US if not anything else - the other international options I believe have their training exclusively in their home countries aside from electives...with the exception of Queensland in Australia).

My hope isn't to just get a medical degree. I hope to put it to good use and hopefully practice somewhere in the US or Canada...because the risk of failure is much much higher outside of any local North American option, I want to make sure I go somewhere that not only gives me a good education, but also gives me the best chance to be able to practice medicine.

SS

 

[bambi]

Do you mean connections and USMLE for electives or residency? Harvard and Yale don't require the USMLE for electives for foreign students so no that's not what does it there. I had no personal ties to where I went and as far as I am aware no one from my school had ever been there before, obviously they might have but we certainly have no links to the school. LORs don't exist the way they do in the US in many countries, including the UK, the ones I sent were very brief as the guys here have no idea what to write. I got every elective I applied for with no problems. As for residency, as I said in the UK and Australia the schools are made for the best in those countries, they are first world countries and with that there is an assumption of a certain standard, which is then supported by appropriate accreditation, that is not the case for the Caribbean and it does mean something. I know a few people just from my year at medical school, both Brits and US citizens, in very competitive residencies in the US right now and they had no trouble getting them.

There is no difference between going to Australia and the Caribbean in terms of job prospects outside of the US for you. You can't argue against Australia by saying that you will be stuck if you don't get a US residency, the same is true for the Caribbean, not for the UK and I don't know much about Ireland. So, if you are considering the Caribbean you really should be considering Australia. I did not mean go to Australia purely for the degree and not do anything with it. I meant don't go expecting to do anything in Australia with it, go on the assumption that you will have to work elsewhere.

The only arguments for the Caribbean over any other foreign school are that the Caribbean schools prepare you for the USMLE and you will have more rotations in the US. Anyone can read and prepare for an exam, it's just more effort if your curriculum is very different and plenty of people get good residencies with just elective time spent in the US.

From what you have said I think you should read around the Caribbean threads a bit more.

 

[bedevilled ben]

According to the office of Clin Ed, a little over 3% of Canadian students that graduate from SGU ultimately end up practicing in Canada. Approximately 25% of the student body is Canadian. Take from these data what you will.

 

[starstrike]

According to the office of Clin Ed, a little over 3% of Canadian students that graduate from SGU ultimately end up practicing in Canada. Approximately 25% of the student body is Canadian. Take from these data what you will.

Do you have a link to this by any chance?

 

[starstrike]

Do you mean connections and USMLE for electives or residency? Harvard and Yale don't require the USMLE for electives for foreign students so no that's not what does it there. I had no personal ties to where I went and as far as I am aware no one from my school had ever been there before, obviously they might have but we certainly have no links to the school. LORs don't exist the way they do in the US in many countries, including the UK, the ones I sent were very brief as the guys here have no idea what to write. I got every elective I applied for with no problems. As for residency, as I said in the UK and Australia the schools are made for the best in those countries, they are first world countries and with that there is an assumption of a certain standard, which is then supported by appropriate accreditation, that is not the case for the Caribbean and it does mean something. I know a few people just from my year at medical school, both Brits and US citizens, in very competitive residencies in the US right now and they had no trouble getting them.

There is no difference between going to Australia and the Caribbean in terms of job prospects outside of the US for you. You can't argue against Australia by saying that you will be stuck if you don't get a US residency, the same is true for the Caribbean, not for the UK and I don't know much about Ireland. So, if you are considering the Caribbean you really should be considering Australia. I did not mean go to Australia purely for the degree and not do anything with it. I meant don't go expecting to do anything in Australia with it, go on the assumption that you will have to work elsewhere.

The only arguments for the Caribbean over any other foreign school are that the Caribbean schools prepare you for the USMLE and you will have more rotations in the US. Anyone can read and prepare for an exam, it's just more effort if your curriculum is very different and plenty of people get good residencies with just elective time spent in the US.

From what you have said I think you should read around the Caribbean threads a bit more.

To be honest, I am having a hard time trying to evaluate the different international options. I have been doing quite a bit of research and basically everybody is pushing in different directions. Those that went to SGU are pushing SGU, those in Australia pushing Australia, then there is DO, Ireland, etc. It is really confusing...and a lot of what I am learning is conjecture. The one objectionable thing I've gotten from the Caribbean option are hard stats...despite the stigma of the schools, the concerns with the quality of education (and life in this case). When I've tried to research Ireland and Australia for this same information, I haven't been able to come up with much.

I do agree with you that I need to read more about the Caribbean...I do need to read about the other international options as I've mentioned above too. I would like to learn more about the UK as well...like I've asked above, would you be able to recommend some places that I could look for some more information? This is with respect to the quality of different schools in the UK, length of the programs, the matching statistics for residency, concerns regarding licensing, etc.

CaRMS doesn't have too many specifics about the international graduates (they tend to lump them together as a whole)...I haven't looked too deeply into the NRMP yet, but I suspect the US matching data will be similar. Do you have any resources or sites that I can look at for some more objective information? I would really appreciate it.

Thanks,

SS

 

[bedevilled ben]

Do you have a link to this by any chance?

I do not. This information is almost certainly not available outside of the school. These numbers are from a Career Guidance presentation that is given to 3rd year students to help plan residency applications in 3rd and 4th year. It is a statistic that the school does not advertise.

 

[starstrike]

I do not. This information is almost certainly not available outside of the school. These numbers are from a Career Guidance presentation that is given to 3rd year students to help plan residency applications in 3rd and 4th year. It is a statistic that the school does not advertise.

I see. That's too bad 🙁

 

[bambi]

For UK schools, look at the UCAS website, that will give you all the names and then just go to their individual websites.
The standard length in the UK is 5 years, those with a degree already can apply for 4 year courses, I'm not sure how many of these take international students these days, originally none did but things have changed. Some schools are 6 years and you get an additional iBSc for the extra year.

No UK medical school can give you match statistics, they wouldn't record that information, why would they? We all get jobs in the UK with essentially no real problems. The last few years it seems quite a few don't get jobs in the initial round but I think everyone does by the time jobs are actually due to start.

You would be able to get licensed anywhere with a UK degree with no problems.

All our schools are technically considered equal but people obviously have personal preferences and there are some significant differences in course structure. For things like the USMLE you would be better off with a slightly more traditional course probably.

 

[hallowmann]

...Similarly, I hear with DO you cant practice fully in Canada? Apparently they are recognized in some provinces like BC and Ontario...but I'm not sure whether you're able to practice Anywhere outside of family medicine. Similarly, I also hear that DOs are now going to be considered IMGs in Canada... Is that true? (Ie they will match in later rounds like Irish and Caribbean grads).

Any thoughts? I would love to hear your input!

Thanks for your help! I really appreciate it!

This is not accurate. It was true a couple years ago, but I believe as of at least early 2013 all provinces in Canada universally recognize the DO degree as an unlimited medical degree. Right now some DO schools even target Canadians (e.g. MSU-COM that has its own Canadian class group). Given that this info of yours is wrong, if I were you, I'd really look to make sure your information is up to date because that could significantly affect your choice.

If you want to match into a Canadian residency, obviously getting into a Canadian school is best, but if you want to match into a US residency, going somewhere stateside is best. In my experience if you are a dual-citizen or from Ireland (or another country) it might make a difference how people see you (i.e. it'll look like you just wanted to go to school there instead of "you had to" go to school there), but generally programs take more people from the Carib (especially SGU) than from Ireland (or any other country). This may be because there are more people applying, because rotations are in the US for the big 4, or because the curriculum aims for the USMLE more closely. Going to a school that has a lot of alums in residency is a plus, because it can give you the opportunity for the all too useful connections associated with that.

 

[starstrike]

This is not accurate. It was true a couple years ago, but I believe as of at least early 2013 all provinces in Canada universally recognize the DO degree as an unlimited medical degree. Right now some DO schools even target Canadians (e.g. MSU-COM that has its own Canadian class group). Given that this info of yours is wrong, if I were you, I'd really look to make sure your information is up to date because that could significantly affect your choice.

If you want to match into a Canadian residency, obviously getting into a Canadian school is best, but if you want to match into a US residency, going somewhere stateside is best. In my experience if you are a dual-citizen or from Ireland (or another country) it might make a difference how people see you (i.e. it'll look like you just wanted to go to school there instead of "you had to" go to school there), but generally programs take more people from the Carib (especially SGU) than from Ireland (or any other country). This may be because there are more people applying, because rotations are in the US for the big 4, or because the curriculum aims for the USMLE more closely. Going to a school that has a lot of alums in residency is a plus, because it can give you the opportunity for the all too useful connections associated with that.

Hi Hallowmann,

In all honesty, my knowledge of DO isn't all too extensive. What I know is piece meal from what I've read on Premed101 and from what I've learned from an acquaintance who currently is doing his DO in the US. I believe he was the one telling me about the limited licensure in some Canadian provinces, but perhaps I am mistaken. Where is a good space to find more information?

With respect to residency, if one were to pursue the DO route, one would need to pursue a DO residency in the US right? how would one practice in Canada? (how does the licensure work? is there an "internship" year or some sort of equivalency training to do practice?).

Any thoughts you may have would be greatly appreciated!

Thanks,

SS

 

[starstrike]

For UK schools, look at the UCAS website, that will give you all the names and then just go to their individual websites.
The standard length in the UK is 5 years, those with a degree already can apply for 4 year courses, I'm not sure how many of these take international students these days, originally none did but things have changed. Some schools are 6 years and you get an additional iBSc for the extra year.

No UK medical school can give you match statistics, they wouldn't record that information, why would they? We all get jobs in the UK with essentially no real problems. The last few years it seems quite a few don't get jobs in the initial round but I think everyone does by the time jobs are actually due to start.

You would be able to get licensed anywhere with a UK degree with no problems.

All our schools are technically considered equal but people obviously have personal preferences and there are some significant differences in course structure. For things like the USMLE you would be better off with a slightly more traditional course probably.

Thanks Bambi, I'll have a look. I didn't realize some of the UK schools also had 4 year post-graduate programs. Can you name any that take on international students?

SS

 

[hallowmann]

Hi Hallowmann,

In all honesty, my knowledge of DO isn't all too extensive. What I know is piece meal from what I've read on Premed101 and from what I've learned from an acquaintance who currently is doing his DO in the US. I believe he was the one telling me about the limited licensure in some Canadian provinces, but perhaps I am mistaken. Where is a good space to find more information?

With respect to residency, if one were to pursue the DO route, one would need to pursue a DO residency in the US right? how would one practice in Canada? (how does the licensure work? is there an "internship" year or some sort of equivalency training to do practice?).

Any thoughts you may have would be greatly appreciated!

Thanks,

SS

He probably gave you info that was true when he was applying, but things have changed since then. If you are applying for the class of 2020, by then (if everything goes as planned) all AOA (DO) residencies will be ACGME accredited, so you'd follow exactly the same path as MDs do here. Even now, DOs can do "MD" residencies and boards, but they also have their own AOA residencies that are currently open to only DOs, but will be open to MDs after the merger and they get ACGME accreditation. The residencies themselves are very similar in terms of structure and education, but AOA residencies tend to be mostly in community hospitals and undeserved areas.

Given that you want to practice in Canada and ACGME is more familiar to all other countries, no matter what you'd probably want to complete an ACGME residency, but I believe I read that you could also complete a residency in Canada. That said, I know very little about what has to be done to get licensed in Canada. You should try looking at the Canadian Osteopathic Association for more info (www.osteopathic.ca). Under the History tab there is a notice for Canadians interested in applying to DO schools.

Now obviously if you can get into a US/Canadian MD school, that would be the easiest route, but given the recent changes, you should also consider the DO route if you can't.

 

[starstrike]

He probably gave you info that was true when he was applying, but things have changed since then. If you are applying for the class of 2020, by then (if everything goes as planned) all AOA (DO) residencies will be ACGME accredited, so you'd follow exactly the same path as MDs do here. Even now, DOs can do "MD" residencies and boards, but they also have their own AOA residencies that are currently open to only DOs, but will be open to MDs after the merger and they get ACGME accreditation. The residencies themselves are very similar in terms of structure and education, but AOA residencies tend to be mostly in community hospitals and undeserved areas.

Given that you want to practice in Canada and ACGME is more familiar to all other countries, no matter what you'd probably want to complete an ACGME residency, but I believe I read that you could also complete a residency in Canada. That said, I know very little about what has to be done to get licensed in Canada. You should try looking at the Canadian Osteopathic Association for more info (www.osteopathic.ca). Under the History tab there is a notice for Canadians interested in applying to DO schools.

Now obviously if you can get into a US/Canadian MD school, that would be the easiest route, but given the recent changes, you should also consider the DO route if you can't.

Thanks for the info hallowmann! I think the other thing to consider here is whether I should take another year to sort out my application for medicine. It would be too late to apply to a DO school at this point would it not?

 

[hallowmann]

Thanks for the info hallowmann! I think the other thing to consider here is whether I should take another year to sort out my application for medicine. It would be too late to apply to a DO school at this point would it not?

Its honestly hard to say, but it is late in the cycle. not sure how competitive Canadians need to be and if they have to really apply early to insure a spot. If you can, stop by pre-osteo and see if any Canadians there have some advice. There should be a Canadian thread going on with the other Canadian applicants.

Either way, I really wouldn't consider going abroad until at least 1-2 failed cycles of US/Canadian MD apps.

 

[foody]

Doesn't Canada have reciprocity with the Australian medical schools? Meaning you can get residency in Canada after med?

 

[bambi]

Thanks Bambi, I'll have a look. I didn't realize some of the UK schools also had 4 year post-graduate programs. Can you name any that take on international students?

SS

I have no idea, I think most probably now but back when I was applying there were only a few courses around and none took internationals. I don't keep up with individual school requirements!

 

[starstrike]

Doesn't Canada have reciprocity with the Australian medical schools? Meaning you can get residency in Canada after med?

That is a good question. I am not sure. I would think they would be in the same situation as other IMGs, competing against everybody else.

 

[UBC2014]

Doesn't Canada have reciprocity with the Australian medical schools? Meaning you can get residency in Canada after med?

LOL

No. That is dentistry.

 

[UBC2014]

That is a good question. I am not sure. I would think they would be in the same situation as other IMGs, competing against everybody else.

Starstrike PM me, don't go abroad for your education, when your stats are good enough to get into a US school.

Doing so would be foolish.