Stupid questions about pathology...

[wildcatj]

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I'm poking my nose in here from the pre-vet forum to ask some questions about career options for my sister. She's in undergrad, still exploring as to what exactly she wants to do, but is definitely interested in the biological sciences with a particular interested in anatomy/physiology/histology. It seems like she could possibly be interested pathology, but I know that's going to involve an MD/DO for her. However, she's not super interested in the treatment side of thing, just the diagnostics (hence why she's thinking maybe path).

So here's where the stupid questions come in seeing as I know very little about human med school and even less about pathology. (Any assumptions I'm making are going to come from the veterinary side of things)
For someone who is just interested in this aspect of medicine, is it possible to survive med school? I wouldn't be worried about her surviving the class time aspect of things, just the clinical years.
I don't know what clinic rotations are like for med students, how much responsibility are you given? Are you primary physician on certain cases? I assume you're going through regular clinical years in med school and then you go into internship and residency for pathology?
In vet med, some specialties require a year of rotating internship (specialties + ER/CC) through a major hospital and then only residency is specific to your end specialty. Is that the case here?
My sister isn't someone who deals well with fast paced and stressful situations (one or the other is fine, just not great with both at the same time). How much can you see that being a problem?
I'd really appreciate any advice, just figured I'd try asking on here. If you think I'd be better off asking in a different forum or you can point me to some good resources I'd appreciate it.

 

[deleted314957]

Maybe she should consider the PhD direction with anatomy, physio and histo being interests and no interest in clinical medicine and being intolerant of fast paced/high stress situations.

 

[mlw03]

I'll reply below. I think Mike's suggestion is worth considering, but no reason she has to exclude the possibility of pathology at this point.

I'm poking my nose in here from the pre-vet forum to ask some questions about career options for my sister. She's in undergrad, still exploring as to what exactly she wants to do, but is definitely interested in the biological sciences with a particular interested in anatomy/physiology/histology. It seems like she could possibly be interested pathology, but I know that's going to involve an MD/DO for her. However, she's not super interested in the treatment side of thing, just the diagnostics (hence why she's thinking maybe path).

So here's where the stupid questions come in seeing as I know very little about human med school and even less about pathology. (Any assumptions I'm making are going to come from the veterinary side of things)
For someone who is just interested in this aspect of medicine, is it possible to survive med school? I wouldn't be worried about her surviving the class time aspect of things, just the clinical years. Yeah. You just suck it up if you really hate something, but mostly it's interesting enough to keep your attention. Plus, if you have integrity you'll care enough to do good work for your patient.
I don't know what clinic rotations are like for med students, how much responsibility are you given? Are you primary physician on certain cases? I assume you're going through regular clinical years in med school and then you go into internship and residency for pathology? In med school, you really don't have much power or true responsibility, despite what people complain. Residents run the show. You don't have enough autonomy to really hurt a patient unless you really tried. Pathology does not require an internship at present.
In vet med, some specialties require a year of rotating internship (specialties + ER/CC) through a major hospital and then only residency is specific to your end specialty. Is that the case here?No - one goes straight to pathology from med school. 4 years for AP/CP in the US.
My sister isn't someone who deals well with fast paced and stressful situations (one or the other is fine, just not great with both at the same time). How much can you see that being a problem? She may not like trauma surgery or emergency medicine rotations, but she'll survive. Pathology is mostly high stakes, but not too fast paced most of the time.
I'd really appreciate any advice, just figured I'd try asking on here. If you think I'd be better off asking in a different forum or you can point me to some good resources I'd appreciate it.

 

[wildcatj]

Thank you both, very helpful advice. I think both are options worth exploring for her. I can't imagine she'd be the only one out there interested in pathology but not clinical medicine. The thought of human medicine is barf for me, even as a means to an end, but my sister seems to think she could plug through the less pleasant no problem for a career she would (hopefully) like in the end. Thanks again for the advice.

 

[KLPM]

Ultimately you have to go through medical school to really know whether you will enjoy the "treatment side of things". I am not saying she hasn't thought it through but just saying that people may change their minds about things. Maybe she will find that something else catches her eyes more when she goes through rotations. For instance maybe diagnostic radiology. Or maybe she might find that she does not enjoy pathology as much as she anticipated. Or maybe she might discover she enjoys certain aspects of patient interactions that don't involve continuity of care (e.g. anaesthesia).

Even people who thoroughly enjoy patient contact sometimes find it hard to "survive medical school". People quit for all sorts of reasons whether it is financially related or personal reasons. I never really enjoyed interacting with patients that much but I still survived the majority of my rotations (except a couple where I felt the desire to whack my head with a heavy bat). People cope with difficulties in different ways as well. Whether it's having supportive family/friends or keeping their eyes on the goal.

Perhaps the best advice I can think of is one I received from a general physician in 3rd year: "You've got to play the game. We all go through medical school. There are things we don't enjoy. Some of us enjoy less things than others. I didn't really like doing procedures for instance but I just played the the game and got through. Now I can do whatever I want".

 

[icpshootyz]

I'm poking my nose in here from the pre-vet forum to ask some questions about career options for my sister. She's in undergrad, still exploring as to what exactly she wants to do, but is definitely interested in the biological sciences with a particular interested in anatomy/physiology/histology. It seems like she could possibly be interested pathology, but I know that's going to involve an MD/DO for her. However, she's not super interested in the treatment side of thing, just the diagnostics (hence why she's thinking maybe path).

So here's where the stupid questions come in seeing as I know very little about human med school and even less about pathology. (Any assumptions I'm making are going to come from the veterinary side of things)
For someone who is just interested in this aspect of medicine, is it possible to survive med school? I wouldn't be worried about her surviving the class time aspect of things, just the clinical years.
I don't know what clinic rotations are like for med students, how much responsibility are you given? Are you primary physician on certain cases? I assume you're going through regular clinical years in med school and then you go into internship and residency for pathology?
In vet med, some specialties require a year of rotating internship (specialties + ER/CC) through a major hospital and then only residency is specific to your end specialty. Is that the case here?
My sister isn't someone who deals well with fast paced and stressful situations (one or the other is fine, just not great with both at the same time). How much can you see that being a problem?
I'd really appreciate any advice, just figured I'd try asking on here. If you think I'd be better off asking in a different forum or you can point me to some good resources I'd appreciate it.

The only reason I went to med school was because I wanted to become a forensic pathologist. I literally had zero interest in any clinical medicine, and that didn't change in med school. I was fine in most of my rotations and could tolerate patient care, etc but it was never for me. I also did a post-sophomore pathology year to make sure I liked pathology, and I found out I liked surg path far better than forensics. I certainly never found any clinical field that changed my mind. The great thing is that pathology does not have an intern year so she would never have to directly care for patients (med school doesn't count, you're not really in charge of patient care). But she should definitely get exposed to pathology before deciding she wants to deal with med school, as it's a long road to do something you don't love. Personally I couldn't be happier in path. It's definitely the right fit for me.

 

[wildcatj]

The only reason I went to med school was because I wanted to become a forensic pathologist. I literally had zero interest in any clinical medicine, and that didn't change in med school. I was fine in most of my rotations and could tolerate patient care, etc but it was never for me. I also did a post-sophomore pathology year to make sure I liked pathology, and I found out I liked surg path far better than forensics. I certainly never found any clinical field that changed my mind. The great thing is that pathology does not have an intern year so she would never have to directly care for patients (med school doesn't count, you're not really in charge of patient care). But she should definitely get exposed to pathology before deciding she wants to deal with med school, as it's a long road to do something you don't love. Personally I couldn't be happier in path. It's definitely the right fit for me.

I assume it's reasonable for her to contact pathologists at local hospitals and see if she can shadow? Is that an acceptable thing to do? I figure it's the best way for her to figure out if this is something she'd be in to.

 

[mlw03]

I assume it's reasonable for her to contact pathologists at local hospitals and see if she can shadow? Is that an acceptable thing to do? I figure it's the best way for her to figure out if this is something she'd be in to.

Yes - acceptable and not uncommon. Prudent, actually.

 

[yaah]

I think it's far too early in her studies to exclude or choose a specific specialty based on a perceived like/dislike of patient care and contact. Med school is hard and there is definitely a lot of clinical experience, but it is only a finite amount of time. Med school is not a decision that should be made lightly, you have to be sure about it. It's expensive and you spend some of the most productive years of your life getting through it.

It's also premature to say she can't handle certain situations. People don't know what they are capable of until they actually try. And if it's something you want, you can put up with even more.

 

[lipomas]

One thing I can say for sure is the pathology job market should pretty much be last on her list of things to impact her decision right now. She is still an undergrad. Any potential job in pathology is at least 8 years away, probably more like 10+. Medicine is going to be different then. Even if it is exactly the same, the unemployment rate among pathologists is essentially 0%, which is far far lower than that of PhDs who are being churned out like crazy.

When an undergrad is thinking about what career to pursue, yes, future likelihood of a "good job" is an important consideration, but you have to be very careful to avoid coloring that with your current impressions, valid or not, of the current job market and current factors which impact it.

The best way to pick a career as an undergrad is to find what you enjoy doing or are good at (preferably both) so that you can distinguish yourself and create more opportunities for yourself.

 

[KCShaw]

Before I started medical school I wouldn't have considered myself at all gregarious, and generally very cautious/quiet around people I didn't know. Public speaking was horrifying to even think about. I was therefore somewhat concerned about how I would fare in patient contact, but I figured I'd learn. In retrospect I'm not sure whether it would have gone as well as it did were I at some other medical school &/or with some other group of medical students -- I'll never know. But, for me it went very well, and at the end of it I was very comfortable in patient contact, etc., and those I met subsequently claim they still have a difficult time imagining the prior me.

On the other hand, a friend of mine got a forensic science undergrad degree, went to med school with the express purpose of becoming a forensic pathologist, did some FP stuff during med school, and ended up doing like critical care med.

Point being, med school can change one in a myriad of ways, from how you interact with folks to what you ultimately find interesting. Things you didn't think you'd like you might love, and vice versa. It's part of the curse of medicine, which includes devoting a tremendous amount of time and money to something that is going to change at least your perspective, and quite possibly a lot of things. But anyone can survive pretty much anything for a few months, and most clinical rotations switch after a month or three. I think what she really needs to decide is whether this is all just a neat idea, or whether, after really understanding the time & money investment, medicine holds enough interest to become a dominant and essentially permanent feature in her life.

 

[wildcatj]

Thank you all again. I think she's going to try to shadow a pathologist and start doing some volunteer work at a hospital.
I made the mistake of looking at pathologist salaries just out of curiosity and then cried a little. I'm going to end up going through the same about of schooling/residency and am going to make diddle. If only I had any interest in human medicine. Oh well...
But thank you all again for the fantastic advice, it's been really helpful in getting her search started.

 

[thebouque]

Thank you all again. I think she's going to try to shadow a pathologist and start doing some volunteer work at a hospital.
I made the mistake of looking at pathologist salaries just out of curiosity and then cried a little. I'm going to end up going through the same about of schooling/residency and am going to make diddle. If only I had any interest in human medicine. Oh well...
But thank you all again for the fantastic advice, it's been really helpful in getting her search started.

What, you're surprised that human docs make more than vets???

 

[wildcatj]

What, you're surprised that human docs make more than vets???

I knew you guys made a lot more than I ever will, but I had never looked at the specifics. So not really surprised, just sad for my future bank account hah.

 

[icpshootyz]

Don't worry about the money, do what you love. There's always people earning more and living fancier than you, no matter what you make. I always said if I wanted to treat patients face to face I would have been a vet. But I could never euthanize a dog, so that ruled it out for me. Enjoy your career 🙂

 

[yaah]

This is a good blog post: http://theincidentaleconomist.com/wordpress/being-a-doctor-is-still-a-great-gig/

As he says, don't pick a career because you think it's going to pay more, pick it because you want to do it. There are other ways to make money, and there are better ways to make money than to spend 8 years training hard while paying for the privilege.

 

[pathstudent]

This is a good blog post: http://theincidentaleconomist.com/wordpress/being-a-doctor-is-still-a-great-gig/

As he says, don't pick a career because you think it's going to pay more, pick it because you want to do it. There are other ways to make money, and there are better ways to make money than to spend 8 years training hard while paying for the privilege.

Mixed feeling about that. While following your dream is probably correlated with economic success (I.e your passion is baking so you are willing to do the extra hours to make your corner cupcake cafe successful).

But if something historically pays a lot more than something you love and you can tolerate/enjoy it, then consider it especially if you have others to care for.

 

[wildcatj]

Mixed feeling about that. While following your dream is probably correlated with economic success (I.e your passion is baking so you are willing to do the extra hours to make your corner cupcake cafe successful).

But if something historically pays a lot more than something you love and you can tolerate/enjoy it, then consider it especially if you have others to care for.

I have said something very similar to other people considering vet school, but say they are on the fence between that and med school. I really think if you could be just as happy (or just slightly less happy) going to med school over vet school to take the med school path. At least in terms of payoff for your investment, you have way better earning potential as a doctor. I know that vet med is the way to go for me, but if I seriously thought I could go into human med, I would. As much as it's not always about the money, the stress of not having enough is going to put a real negative spin on the rest of life.

 

[thebouque]

I have said something very similar to other people considering vet school, but say they are on the fence between that and med school. I really think if you could be just as happy (or just slightly less happy) going to med school over vet school to take the med school path. At least in terms of payoff for your investment, you have way better earning potential as a doctor. I know that vet med is the way to go for me, but if I seriously thought I could go into human med, I would. As much as it's not always about the money, the stress of not having enough is going to put a real negative spin on the rest of life.

You could do peds with a fellowship in neonatal medicine

 

[KCShaw]

Looks like I've been ignorant but my impression was that one can do very well as a vet without the same kind of debt load. As with most businesses it can be hard to get going, but the ceiling I thought was reasonably high. In checking a couple of articles though it looks like vets are already at a mean debt of around $134,000 upon finishing, which I trust a bit more than average salary articles. Debt loads for pretty much everyone keep going up, along with interest rates, effectively ballooning the problem. Anyway. I digress. Just pointing out what I didn't really know, which is how much debt vets evidently can end up with.