Substance Abuse - Dental Licensing

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AlmostDDS1

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I'm a 4th year dental student.

After some family intervention, missing AM clinic sessions that threatened postponing of graduation (school is unaware of alcohol problem), patients noticing my hands shaking (withdrawal), problems with my husband and health concerns, along with loss of control when I drink (having much more than anticipated)... I had to stop drinking. I had used alcohol daily for 5 years and in excess daily, alone, late into the night for 2 years. This was NOT to have fun... It was to slow down my brain (self medicating anxiety I suppose) It ended May 24 of this year in 6 days of acute withdrawal followed by anxiety, depression and insomnia that are still persisting.

I went to the doctor who put me on Naltrexone for the alcohol cravings/alcohol dependence. After some horrible mood swing months, my husband said if I cared about our relationship, I'd get into therapy to learn how to deal with life without alcohol. I have been seeing a therapist who along with my MD referred me to a university psychiatrist. I was diagnosed with anxiety/OCD, insomnia and put on medication for both. In addition, my MDs and therapist suggested AA.

Since it wasn't formal rehab but instead documented withdrawals, treatment with anti craving and psych meds and therapy, I don't know if I have to consider this "substance abuse treatment" in the question for licensure. I'm terrified of what I may have to go through by admitting such a thing (such as random testing) or how that may impact employment etc. This was ALL VOLUNTARY.

Should I get my medical records to see what is documented? Do I have to put alcohol abuse treatment down? Thank you!

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I'm a 4th year dental student.

After some family intervention, missing AM clinic sessions that threatened postponing of graduation (school is unaware of alcohol problem), patients noticing my hands shaking (withdrawal), problems with my husband and health concerns, along with loss of control when I drink (having much more than anticipated)... I had to stop drinking. I had used alcohol daily for 5 years and in excess daily, alone, late into the night for 2 years. This was NOT to have fun... It was to slow down my brain (self medicating anxiety I suppose) It ended May 24 of this year in 6 days of acute withdrawal followed by anxiety, depression and insomnia that are still persisting.

I went to the doctor who put me on Naltrexone for the alcohol cravings/alcohol dependence. After some horrible mood swing months, my husband said if I cared about our relationship, I'd get into therapy to learn how to deal with life without alcohol. I have been seeing a therapist who along with my MD referred me to a university psychiatrist. I was diagnosed with anxiety/OCD, insomnia and put on medication for both. In addition, my MDs and therapist suggested AA.

Since it wasn't formal rehab but instead documented withdrawals, treatment with anti craving and psych meds and therapy, I don't know if I have to consider this "substance abuse treatment" in the question for licensure. I'm terrified of what I may have to go through by admitting such a thing (such as random testing) or how that may impact employment etc. This was ALL VOLUNTARY.

Should I get my medical records to see what is documented? Do I have to put alcohol abuse treatment down? Thank you!

I would suggest to get your medical records so you know what they have on you. Don't put alcohol abuse treatment down or they may make you do some pointless rehab. You seem to have things under control. The less they know the better and less stressful for you. As long as you aren't hurting a patient there is no reason to stress out on bringing this stuff up.
 
I would suggest to get your medical records so you know what they have on you. Don't put alcohol abuse treatment down or they may make you do some pointless rehab. You seem to have things under control. The less they know the better and less stressful for you. As long as you aren't hurting a patient there is no reason to stress out on bringing this stuff up.

My concern is about licensure because they ask the substance abuse question as well as psychiatric diagnosis. It says on the bottom if you lie and they find out, they can revoke your license to practice. In addition, in some states you have to sign a release on your medical records.
 
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OK first off PM me and I can give you some real world advice about this but it is stuff that I will not discuss on an open forum.

It is illegal for any state licensing board to reject you based on a medical diagnosis. Unless you have done something that has had legal ramifications (like a DUI, an arrest while intoxicated or a complaint from a patient) then they have no authority to penalize you for your problem anymore than they could with a license from someone who has diabetes.

Some states have awesome impaired dentist components of their dental societies whereas some states have absolutely draconian rules about substance abuse amongst the professionals which kept people in the closet with their problems and make the profession worse as a whole.
 
This board will not give you the answer you are looking for. Consult a lawyer who deals with professional licensure. He/she will give you a bonafide answer and guide you through the process if necessary. Hearsay on this board is just that.
 
OK first off PM me and I can give you some real world advice about this but it is stuff that I will not discuss on an open forum.

It is illegal for any state licensing board to reject you based on a medical diagnosis. Unless you have done something that has had legal ramifications (like a DUI, an arrest while intoxicated or a complaint from a patient) then they have no authority to penalize you for your problem anymore than they could with a license from someone who has diabetes.

Some states have awesome impaired dentist components of their dental societies whereas some states have absolutely draconian rules about substance abuse amongst the professionals which kept people in the closet with their problems and make the profession worse as a whole.
Substance abuse and diabetes are two vastly different things, if you don't know that, let me be the first one to tell you.
 
Substance abuse and diabetes are two vastly different things, if you don't know that, let me be the first one to tell you.

If you are still viewing addiction as anything but a disease welcome to 1950:rolleyes:
 
If you are still viewing addiction as anything but a disease welcome to 1950:rolleyes:

lol i was just gonna make post about it being 2010 and not 1950 and that addictions is nothing to be ashamed about but you sort of beat me to it.
 
Face it though, addictions are still viewed as shameful. People think that alcoholics and addicts are unpredictable and a danger to others and themselves even in recovery, especially early on.

I drank because it was the only way I could shut my brain off and get a break the night before a big, new procedure. Problem was that it took more and more to shut my brain off until I was getting drunk every time I drank and isolating like crazy. Finally, I became physically dependent on it. Kind of scary when your mother who lives 600 miles away confronts you on an issue that you had no idea she was aware of.

So what is the consenus? Is medication from my PCP and psychiatrist (anticraving and psychiatric), therapy and AA considered 'substance abuse treatment' when filling out my licensure paperwork?
 
If you are still viewing addiction as anything but a disease welcome to 1950:rolleyes:

No one went into a store (liquor, pharmacy) and asked for type 1 diabetes. No one can prevent it. No one can cure it. Although I agree that addiction is a disease, it is definitely not the same. A pill and some therapy will not subside it, diabetes is a lifetime disease, you cannot bet rid of it and hope not to fall off the wagon, you are always on this track.
 
No one went into a store (liquor, pharmacy) and asked for type 1 diabetes. No one can prevent it. No one can cure it. Although I agree that addiction is a disease, it is definitely not the same. A pill and some therapy will not subside it, diabetes is a lifetime disease, you cannot bet rid of it and hope not to fall off the wagon, you are always on this track.
Ironically, however, type 2 diabetes blows up this argument line by line.
 
This is as pointless as discussing being vegeterian or meateater. Addiction to drugs and alcohol is a desease, in my opinion.Not sure about addiction to sex:D
 
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Whether you see addiction as a disease or not, licensure is not a medical issue, it's a legal issue. You need to consult a lawyer.
 
Ironically, however, type 2 diabetes blows up this argument line by line.

Did not say type 2 now did I? Let's face it, if drugs or alcohol were simply not available, the addiction could not be sustained. But you could go on living. If insulin were simply not available for a type 1 diabetic, you would simply die. There in lies the difference.
 
Let's face it, if drugs or alcohol were simply not available, the addiction could not be sustained. But you could go on living.

This is an assumption that you are making. You do NOT know what an addict would do if magically his drug disappeared.
 
Someone just not that well educated in narcology
 
Did not say type 2 now did I? Let's face it, if drugs or alcohol were simply not available, the addiction could not be sustained. But you could go on living. If insulin were simply not available for a type 1 diabetic, you would simply die. There in lies the difference.
I think you missed his point. No one would argue that type II DM wasn't a disease, and yet most people with it have only themselves to blame.
 
No one went into a store (liquor, pharmacy) and asked for type 1 diabetes. No one can prevent it. No one can cure it. Although I agree that addiction is a disease, it is definitely not the same. A pill and some therapy will not subside it, diabetes is a lifetime disease, you cannot bet rid of it and hope not to fall off the wagon, you are always on this track.

You really don't know anything about addiction medicine do you? I hope that your GPR students learn it from someone else before they get out into practice.
 
Please... there has to be SOMEBODY out there who knows the answer to my question.

The state I'm applying for licensure in asks about substance abuse or chemical dependence in the past 2 years.

I qualify. Please don't let me think I'm the first person to go through this :(

I'm being treated by my PCP for my cravings, treated by my psychiatrist for depression, anxiety and OCD, going through therapy and going to AA. I'm making efforts here and I have no legal problems. PLEASE help.
 
Should I ask the school or would that be a stupid move? My psychiatrist said not to, but I'm really concerned about licensing and when I contacted the board of the state I'm interested in practicing in... they said they couldn't disclose the information to me until they had a completed application in hand. They said it is on a case by case basis.
 
nobody here is going to know, this is a case by case decision. i would strongly urge you to speak to a lawyer who handles these things. good luck
 
Please... there has to be SOMEBODY out there who knows the answer to my question.

The state I'm applying for licensure in asks about substance abuse or chemical dependence in the past 2 years.

I qualify. Please don't let me think I'm the first person to go through this :(

I'm being treated by my PCP for my cravings, treated by my psychiatrist for depression, anxiety and OCD, going through therapy and going to AA. I'm making efforts here and I have no legal problems. PLEASE help.

There is SOMEBODY who can help. They are called an attorney. I don't understand why you would put something as important as this in the hands of an anonymous message board. Suck it up and go pay for some legal advice as others have suggested.
 
Bullseye. :thumbup:

Once again, was not talking about type 2, but type 1, which I am sure we can all agree is an autoimmune disease which no one I have ever met would chose. Once again, the entire concept of rehab is to alleviate the patient from using the addictive substance, which proves that it is possible to live without this substance. No one with type 1 diabetes is living without insulin, this disease cannot be cured. If you do not see a difference here............oh well. I agree both are disabilities, but the diseases are vastly different, and in my opinion not comparable.
 
Once again, was not talking about type 2, but type 1, which I am sure we can all agree is an autoimmune disease which no one I have ever met would chose. Once again, the entire concept of rehab is to alleviate the patient from using the addictive substance, which proves that it is possible to live without this substance. No one with type 1 diabetes is living without insulin, this disease cannot be cured. If you do not see a difference here............oh well. I agree both are disabilities, but the diseases are vastly different, and in my opinion not comparable.
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What is your background in this area? Don't throw stones unless you live in a brick house.

I've had extensive education in addictionology and I work with my state's impaired dentist component of the ADA.

And if you read my original post I didn't say that diabetes and addiction were the same. I said that the state couldn't deny you a license over addiction any more than they could over having diabetes as both are covered by the American's with Disabilities Act.
 
I've had extensive education in addictionology and I work with my state's impaired dentist component of the ADA.

And if you read my original post I didn't say that diabetes and addiction were the same. I said that the state couldn't deny you a license over addiction any more than they could over having diabetes as both are covered by the American's with Disabilities Act.

I know that the application for licensure in Texas specifically asks if you have ever been "addicted" to alcohol or any other substance, not if you have been "treated".
 
I know that the application for licensure in Texas specifically asks if you have ever been "addicted" to alcohol or any other substance, not if you have been "treated".
Still leaves lots of wiggle room. Since addiction is a diagnosis, the OP is perfectly justified in saying s/he has never been diagnosed with an addiction.
 
Still leaves lots of wiggle room. Since addiction is a diagnosis, the OP is perfectly justified in saying s/he has never been diagnosed with an addiction.

No aphistis... unfortunately, I have been diagnosed with alcohol dependence... by both my psychiatrist and my MD... remember the withdrawal treatment and craving treatment with naltrexone... they cant prescribe without a diagnosis... unfortunately.

I emailed a bunch of states... they said I may have to do aftercare rehab, alcohol and drug screenings, monthly sobriety reports and participation in AA and maintain a sponsor... guess I'm f'ed for 3-5 yrs....

I just hope the dental board minutes about this dont get posted online w my name. Im prepping for the worst
 
No aphistis... unfortunately, I have been diagnosed with alcohol dependence... by both my psychiatrist and my MD... remember the withdrawal treatment and craving treatment with naltrexone... they cant prescribe without a diagnosis... unfortunately.

I emailed a bunch of states... they said I may have to do aftercare rehab, alcohol and drug screenings, monthly sobriety reports and participation in AA and maintain a sponsor... guess I'm f'ed for 3-5 yrs....

I just hope the dental board minutes about this dont get posted online w my name. Im prepping for the worst

Hang in there. You are not the first to go through this so know that you are not alone.:thumbup:
 
Thanks Hammer. I was starting to get concerned because one state board I called said they hadn't had my situation in recent years. Others congratulated me on my sobriety.

Good to know I'm not alone. Heading to another AA meeting this afternoon. They help a LOT.
 
I emailed a bunch of states... they said I may have to do aftercare rehab, alcohol and drug screenings, monthly sobriety reports and participation in AA and maintain a sponsor... guess I'm f'ed for 3-5 yrs....

As long as your drinking still isn't a problem, you shouldn't have anything to worry about.
 
I've had extensive education in addictionology and I work with my state's impaired dentist component of the ADA.

And if you read my original post I didn't say that diabetes and addiction were the same. I said that the state couldn't deny you a license over addiction any more than they could over having diabetes as both are covered by the American's with Disabilities Act.
So it appears that the state boards also feel that although these are both disabilities, alcohol dependence and diabetes are treated quite differently. And it appears that the state boards can deny you a license if certain conditions are not met. The board is not monitoring anyone's glycemic management.
 
more that if you lie and they decide to look through your medical records release you are required to sign... they can revoke your license to practice.

I was talking to my psychiatrist today and she said that I should avoid releasing her records if at all possible and I should just stick with my PCPs records -- because less is better in this case.

Also, I went to an AA meeting and talked with a nurse who had a licensing renewal problem... she said "we don't want the dental board to find out about this, do we?" I said it's in my medical records... She said "uh oh, better get a lawyer"... then I asked her to sign my attendence sheet that I made just in case I have to go in front of the board. She asked me if I'm just "doing this for the signatures or if I really care about my recovery."

I don't relate to the all womens group as well as I do to the mixed group. Men get me better. How odd!

WTF?

I guess I'm just afraid of what could happen if I don't disclose all that I have and it is found out.
 
So it appears that the state boards also feel that although these are both disabilities, alcohol dependence and diabetes are treated quite differently. And it appears that the state boards can deny you a license if certain conditions are not met. The board is not monitoring anyone's glycemic management.
We get it, setdoc; you think anyone with an addiction is an utter moral failure to themselves and society. Patients must rave about your practice's supportive tobacco cessation program. May we safely presume the key components are holy water and exorcism?
 
So it appears that the state boards also feel that although these are both disabilities, alcohol dependence and diabetes are treated quite differently. And it appears that the state boards can deny you a license if certain conditions are not met. The board is not monitoring anyone's glycemic management.

You just can't let it go, can you? We all have demons to face at some point in our lives. I hope you find some compassionate people to help you through when you face yours. If you can't offer some helpful advice to the OP, just don't say anything.
 
more that if you lie and they decide to look through your medical records release you are required to sign... they can revoke your license to practice.

I was talking to my psychiatrist today and she said that I should avoid releasing her records if at all possible and I should just stick with my PCPs records -- because less is better in this case.

Also, I went to an AA meeting and talked with a nurse who had a licensing renewal problem... she said "we don't want the dental board to find out about this, do we?" I said it's in my medical records... She said "uh oh, better get a lawyer"... then I asked her to sign my attendence sheet that I made just in case I have to go in front of the board. She asked me if I'm just "doing this for the signatures or if I really care about my recovery."

I don't relate to the all womens group as well as I do to the mixed group. Men get me better. How odd!

WTF?

I guess I'm just afraid of what could happen if I don't disclose all that I have and it is found out.

That really sucks. I've had similar experiences at womens' groups (maybe since our jobs put us in authority at work and our professions have been male-dominated historically?), but, fortunately, working hard on your recovery will show when you need to discuss your situation for licensing/applications...
 
We get it, setdoc; you think anyone with an addiction is an utter moral failure to themselves and society. Patients must rave about your practice's supportive tobacco cessation program. May we safely presume the key components are holy water and exorcism?

If you read my original posts, you would see that my point was that susbstance abuse and diabetes are vastly different, though both disabilities. No judgement was made on any individual, and you know nothing about my practice. I will leave the holy water and exorcism to you, since you brought it up and seem to know more about it than me.
And to the OP, I said way up there in my original post, get a lawyer, and I stand by that, with no judgement involved.
 
you know, i kinda of agree with setdoc on this. i have many friends in dental school who were smoking weed all day, taking adderall, etc. do they have a "disease"? no, they're just being stupid. yes, some people truly have an addiction problem, possibly like the OP. however, not everybody who has a DUI on their record or has a drug charge on their record has a disease. and no, diabetes and drug addiction are not the same category. one you have absolutely no control over, while the other you do.
 
Kind of like gay people right? I mean there has to be choice involved with being gay. Why would anyone want to choose to do something that has such serious societal repercussions?:rolleyes:

Are u serious? Who said anything about gay people?? I'm talking about the many, many kids in college who choose to do drugs (smoke pot, get drunk, etc). Are u telling me they all have diseases?? One of my college friends was pulled over with weed in his car. As part of his plea he has to go to outpatient drug rehab. If he were going to dental school he would be in the same position as the OP. Are u telling me he has a disease? There was a guy in my dental school class who was selling adderal pills to 30% of my class.. I guess they all have diseases as well?

I do believe that there are true druggies out there who have a disease and cant help their addiction. However those are a small number compared to the casual drug users who use it socially and just for fun.
 
Are u serious? Who said anything about gay people?? I'm talking about the many, many kids in college who choose to do drugs (smoke pot, get drunk, etc). Are u telling me they all have diseases?? One of my college friends was pulled over with weed in his car. As part of his plea he has to go to outpatient drug rehab. If he were going to dental school he would be in the same position as the OP. Are u telling me he has a disease? There was a guy in my dental school class who was selling adderal pills to 30% of my class.. I guess they all have diseases as well?

I do believe that there are true druggies out there who have a disease and cant help their addiction. However those are a small number compared to the casual drug users who use it socially and just for fun.

Sorry I misunderstood the point that you were trying to make, you are correct there are a lot of "recreational" users who can choose to stop. I apologize and will delete my post.
 
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