Success Stories: No Research Experience

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BosNonTrad

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I currently work in the investment consulting world and don't have any formal research experience. I work full time and am taking classes, so I'm trying to decide if my time outside of school/work is better served continuing to volunteer or trying to make time for research. I know there are plenty of applicants without research experience that have matriculated, but I would love to hear some success stories. Are there any of you out there without research experience that had well rounded applications, but weren't exactly 'stars' and were successful in the application process? I know this is kind of a strange question, and probably dependent upon whether or not you applied to research-centric schools, but if this sounds like you, please share 🙂
 
I had absolutely no research and got several acceptances. I believe the rest of my application (aside from my GPA) was pretty well rounded and no one ever asked me why I hadn't done any research. I didn't have an excessive amount of shadowing (less than 20 hours) but I had a lot of volunteering (several hundred hours over three years) in a variety of capacities. I had military service and a 33S MCAT but a 3.38 GPA. So I think I was a good applicant but not by any means a star. The one research heavy school I applied to didn't even interview me but since I know I don't want to do research that didn't really bother me at all. Hope that helps!
 
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I decided not to try and add "research" to my resume because, as a non-trad, in the short time period I had, it would look just like that--something I was doing for my resume. I focused on showing that I want to take care of people, and did things that built on things I had already done. I volunteered and then this year became a scribe. Also, if you have a service-oriented background (like a lot of volunteering) be sure to apply to the Jesuit schools like Creighton, Saint Louis University, and Loyola. Creighton didn't care at all about my lack of research, and Case Western Reserve seems to like non-trads and although they are research heavy they totally understood why I hadn't done research. Iowa seems to like nontrads too. Those three were all schools I got in to.
 
I never did a lick of research and I turned out all right. I wouldn't call myself well rounded though. Every category on the application I seemed to put down something extremely large or extremely small. I guess my application showed "passion".

In any event, when I was trying to whittle down the list of schools to apply to, I did pay attention to the "% with research experience" value in the MSAR. I figured any school with 90% or more would not be a good fit for me.
 
I never did any research. To me the worst thing in the world is being trapped in some lab somewhere. Didn't do it, didn't have to, didn't need to. Never came up in interviews.
 
I have minimal clinical research experience as part of my regular volunteering. I actually did a week of bench research, but slicing brains was so mind-numbingly boring that I didn't continue with it. I didn't mention my week of bench research on my application.

Of course, top-tier med schools happen to be research-heavy med schools, so realize that not doing any research might close the door on those schools.

Of the nine interviews I attended, I got seven acceptances and two waitlists. Those two happen to be top-tier schools.
 
I never did research. I focused on volunteering and amassing clinical experience by being an EMT. It never really came up during interviews.
 
I never did any research. To me the worst thing in the world is being trapped in some lab somewhere. Didn't do it, didn't have to, didn't need to. Never came up in interviews.

Most research doesn't involve a lab. Lots of people do research projects with clinicians involving chart review, surveys, clinical evaluations. You won't come up with the next cure for cancer without doing benchwork, but doing clinical research you can come up with useful data you can publish or present.
 
This is really encouraging - thanks for all of your feedback! As I hope to apply in 2013, I feel like ADCOMs may view squeezing in research now as fluffing my application, so at this point I'm leaning towards moving forward without research. I volunteer weekly on a peds floor (where I have direct contact with patients) as well as through Big Sister and will have amassed several hundred volunteer hours by the time I apply. Hopefully that will help to offset the lack of research experience.
 
Research experience is not necessary unless you're planning to apply for research-intensive programs (MD/PhD or MD/MS). It won't hurt to do some research if you want to try it, but if you're planning to apply straight MD/DO, you're much better off directing your efforts toward doing well in your prereqs/MCAT and amassing a solid amount of clinical experience. It sounds like you're already doing all the right things, so stay the course. :luck: to you. 🙂
 
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Most research doesn't involve a lab. Lots of people do research projects with clinicians involving chart review, surveys, clinical evaluations. You won't come up with the next cure for cancer without doing benchwork, but doing clinical research you can come up with useful data you can publish or present.

Dude, I did my undergrad in the middle of Alaska at a time when the only opportunity was in a lab on campus (yes I am old) and to find someone available to do clinical data? Wasn't gonna happen. The mid 90's is when UAF got their first female science faculty member. A time when the director of the WAMI (no Wyoming yet) program told me that "women don't belong in medicine" and that 3 times taking the MCAT meant a closed door to the dream. Needless to say I never even thought twice about UofW.
 
I never did research, had no interest in it. I had multiple acceptances to medschool. Research came up again when I applied to residency, the all important publication section. Here, however, it might have hurt me--despite very high grades and board scores, I ended up scrambling.
 
I never did research, had no interest in it. I had multiple acceptances to medschool. Research came up again when I applied to residency, the all important publication section. Here, however, it might have hurt me--despite very high grades and board scores, I ended up scrambling.
Didn't you apply in EM? That has to be the least research-oriented specialty there is, except maybe family med!
 
No research whatsoever
 
This question came up again this week for me when meeting with my advisor. For those without research experience, what is a reasonable amount of clinical experience? Is 200+ hrs at the time of application (in addition to other non-medical volunteer experiences) enough as long as you have strong grades/MCAT? My advisor feels it's a drop in the bucket...
 
This question came up again this week for me when meeting with my advisor. For those without research experience, what is a reasonable amount of clinical experience? Is 200+ hrs at the time of application (in addition to other non-medical volunteer experiences) enough as long as you have strong grades/MCAT? My advisor feels it's a drop in the bucket...


The trouble with these questions and their answers is that the orientation is wrong. It's like asking what quantity of love improves life span.

Research could mean cleaning test tubes or it could mean designing, organizing, and carrying through on the execution of worthwhile projects. Clinical experience could mean taking tours of the hospital and gawking at patients or it could mean paying your dues there.

Neither is as important as solid gpa and MCAT. It's nice to put something in the various categories of an application.

But whether you can make it mean something to someone such that it will move you ahead of your other deficiencies and past other applicants into the interview pool is a different question.

Assume that most people are average in all the categories. And measure the effort to excel in one and whether you need a spark somewhere.

Some by the nature of their experience and natural proclivity will have serious research chops that med schools fawn over. But that takes years. For the rest of us it doesn't matter much.

I've always wanted a clinical career. I want nothing to do with academics. And will only participate/help in research if it involves helping my future department establish it's reputation. I did not and will not have any of it to become a clinician.

It remains a hoop event in the hoop olympics because it remains a tool for institutions to acquire funds and prestige. Many will fake it and tokenize it to get want they want. Few will really go after clinical/scientific inquiry with any real passion.

Why medical schools turn a blind eye to certain types of patent fakery and not others is as I said a factor of the reputation game they play.

Work hard at if you dig it. And the world could be your oyster. Or fake it and check the box and keep it moving as most. But certainly don't worry about it too much one way or the other.
 
Work hard at if you dig it. And the world could be your oyster. Or fake it and check the box and keep it moving as most. But certainly don't worry about it too much one way or the other.

This is how I feel about it, too...although, he basically told me that I won't get in unless I quit my job and get into something that is more medically relevant. Without doing so, he said I am showing that I'm not willing to risk everything for med school. But is 9 mos cleaning test tubes or submitting IRB requests really going to show commitment?
 
This is how I feel about it, too...although, he basically told me that I won't get in unless I quit my job and get into something that is more medically relevant. Without doing so, he said I am showing that I'm not willing to risk everything for med school. But is 9 mos cleaning test tubes or submitting IRB requests really going to show commitment?

I too struggled with this "Gentlemen's" notion of showing commitment. Flaunted by the wealthy in self-congratulatory flatulence. Of course you should go to Africa to serve the poor, of course you should work for free for the greater prestige of Dr. Whathiznutz's career.

F@ck all that.

I worked 2 jobs as a premed.

Just be real with it. If they're unimpressed it will mark just a few more of the thousands of unimpressed people you will leave in your wake as your career progresses. The best clinicians I've seen have had a thorny distaste for politics. It's them I respect. The rest of these f'ers are the fluffers of the medical porn industry. Full of opinions about how you should lay the pipe. Without the inclination to do any of the dirty work themselves.
 
Addendum:

It's difficult in the initial stages to see to Fluffing for what it is. Because you don't have the luxury. And if you put yourself on certain tracks in med school you REALLY don't have the luxury. You think everyone has fake tits and frog lips as a premed wait to you get to the next level of the sieve where many realistic notions didn't make the grade.

But once you get in there is also the possibility of saying screw it to more of what you want to. To more that you know is particularly worthless. If your put yourself on the right clinical track.

When you do this you have increasingly less use for them. For some reason it becomes incumbent to many of the people around and in this career to put their stamp on you. Probably the public interest in it's physicians.

But what I can tell you is that the customer service model has little to do with my Attending's laying into a drug-addicted mother of three. She did it like the stern Jamaican grandmother she was. And point for point it counteracted everything you get taught in professional sensitivity settings. And it was effective.

So eventually, there's just your colleagues doing the job and the people you work with. You'll have your own style of communication and plenty of room for self-expression.

By that time the pattering advice of premed counselors and the many capricious things you had to do will be a distant comical memory.

And watch the most worthless among you slink and shrink into the back office administrative roles.

No more illusions of selective grandeur to protect them.

And lab work will be something those other guys do.
 
oh the politics 🙂

I guess I am most concerned that my advisor doesn't think I should apply until I switch jobs and amass more clinical/research experience because he is the head of a reputable post-bac program. His opinion certainly carries some weight and he would also be deciding when to provide sponsorship. His thoughts on my clinical experience kind of blindsided me - I expected him to say I should wait a year to apply so that I wouldn't have to study for the MCAT while taking two classes, etc...not that I didn't have enough patient exposure at 200hrs.
 
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oh the politics 🙂

I guess I am most concerned that my advisor doesn't think I should apply until I switch jobs and amass more clinical/research experience because he is the head of a reputable post-bac program. His opinion certainly carries some weight and he would also be deciding when to provide sponsorship. His thoughts on my clinical experience kind of blindsided me - I expected him to say I should wait a year to apply so that I wouldn't have to study for the MCAT while taking two classes, etc...not that I didn't have enough patient exposure at 200hrs.

I have to chime in and say this really irks me. I was told something similar last month when I went to my first advising appointment. My advisor strongly encouraged me to go to school to be a medical assistant. I told her I wasn't interested in spending money on schooling I didn't need to make even less money than I make now. Her response? Well, you want to be in medicine right? It's not about money. I told her I have to eat!
 
oh the politics 🙂

I guess I am most concerned that my advisor doesn't think I should apply until I switch jobs and amass more clinical/research experience because he is the head of a reputable post-bac program. His opinion certainly carries some weight and he would also be deciding when to provide sponsorship. His thoughts on my clinical experience kind of blindsided me - I expected him to say I should wait a year to apply so that I wouldn't have to study for the MCAT while taking two classes, etc...not that I didn't have enough patient exposure at 200hrs.

I have to chime in and say this really irks me. I was told something similar last month when I went to my first advising appointment. My advisor strongly encouraged me to go to school to be a medical assistant. I told her I wasn't interested in spending money on schooling I didn't need to make even less money than I make now. Her response? Well, you want to be in medicine right? It's not about money. I told her I have to eat!
As I have often said, if premed advisors knew what it takes to get into medical school, they'd be doctors and not premed advisors. It is *not* necessary to do research in order to get into medical school--the one exception to this is if you are applying to a research program such as MD/PhD or MD/MS like Case Western's CCLCM program. No MD-only program requires research as a prereq. Concerning clinical exposure, it is *not* necessary to quit your current job to work as a low-level allied health professional like MA or research assistant to prove that you're committed to going to medical school.

So much for what you don't have to do. What do you have to do? First, get a good GPA--ideally 3.8+, but the 3.5 range is acceptable. If you have less than a 3.3, and especially if you have less than a 3.0, you should seriously consider a post bac (either formal or DIY) or an SMP.

Second, get a good MCAT score. 35+ means you are in the elite range and competitive for pretty much any US school. 30+ puts you in a reasonable range for most allo schools. High 20s is a gray zone; you can apply, but you're applying at a disadvantage. You should seriously consider retaking if your score is less than 27 or so.

Third, get some clinical experience. This can involve shadowing, volunteering, paid employment, research, or some combination of the above. If you are applying to osteo schools, shadowing a DO is a must at some schools, so take that into account. If you are going to volunteer, a small commitment over a long period of time (ex. 2 hours per week for a year or more) is better than a two week full time stint. Non-clinical volunteering is also looked upon favorably. Paid non-medical service-oriented jobs like teaching are also looked upon favorably.

Concerning how to deal with the advisors who are insisting that you do need to do things that you don't really need to do, what I would suggest is that if you can reasonably meet their requests, go ahead and meet them. It won't kill you to do things like fit in a little extra shadowing here or there, or take an extra class in biochem. Those things probably won't be dealbreakers at most med schools if you don't do them, but they aren't unreasonable things to do.

You two obviously don't need me to tell you that asking nontrads to change jobs is extreme and unrealistic for many people. I suggest that you handle this situation by telling your advisors what you're going to do to "make up" for the lack of on-the-job clinical experience in other ways. So for example, if you're not going to quit your job to be an MA, maybe you'll take a first aid course and volunteer to teach first aid once a month. If you're not going to volunteer as a research assistant, maybe you'll take a class that requires a mini-research project next semester. In other words, substitute something analogous but realistic for their unrealistic suggestions, which will let them know you're not just ignoring their input. Because you're right: you will need these people's support to apply if they're compiling your committee LOR.

Hope this helps, and best of luck. 🙂
 
Q, thank you so much for your insight.

The only thing I want to point out is the University of Utah does have a small research requirement. I am currently a Utah resident, and that's why I opened this thread to have a look. I don't have that experience yet, and I was curious what the consensus is.

Actually, I have some experience from undergrad, but it was horribly boring fly lab research and I quit the job because the post-doc was an inappropriate jerk to me. I actually filed a documented HR complaint against him in an effort to keep my job. Looking back, it's unfortunate. The HR person told me that my claim was valid, but since the pay was so low and it would take so long to fight, it would be better for me to resign. (I had another job where I could pick up more hours. Let's not get into why I felt I needed two jobs in college.)

Sorry for the long response. I guess I feel chatty. 🙂
 
Q, thank you so much for your insight.

The only thing I want to point out is the University of Utah does have a small research requirement. I am currently a Utah resident, and that's why I opened this thread to have a look. I don't have that experience yet, and I was curious what the consensus is.

Actually, I have some experience from undergrad, but it was horribly boring fly lab research and I quit the job because the post-doc was an inappropriate jerk to me. I actually filed a documented HR complaint against him in an effort to keep my job. Looking back, it's unfortunate. The HR person told me that my claim was valid, but since the pay was so low and it would take so long to fight, it would be better for me to resign. (I had another job where I could pick up more hours. Let's not get into why I felt I needed two jobs in college.)

Sorry for the long response. I guess I feel chatty. 🙂
Well, now, if a school explicitly states research is a requirement, that's a different story. If you want to apply there, then yes, you need to do whatever they require. The only good alternative is to contact their admissions office to ask for an exception to be made if you think you have a good reason not to fulfill their requirement. Speaking of which, it is probably worth checking into whether your UG experience would suffice.
 
The only thing I want to point out is the University of Utah does have a small research requirement.

Lol, Utah has so many requirements and so many rankings and this spread sheet where you rank yourself in a zillion categories and then see if your combined rank meets (and must in a certain percentage exceed) the requirements in these categories that I was hopelessly confused. I came to the conclusion that any school that made its application process that complicated was not worth my time. I shudder to think what it would be like to be an actual student there.

"You need at least an 80% in cell biology, but must exceed 92% in all cell related test questions, however questions directly related to biology but not related to cells will count 50% towards the 92% requirement ... " ugh
 
Lol, Utah has so many requirements and so many rankings and this spread sheet where you rank yourself in a zillion categories and then see if your combined rank meets (and must in a certain percentage exceed) the requirements in these categories that I was hopelessly confused. I came to the conclusion that any school that made its application process that complicated was not worth my time. I shudder to think what it would be like to be an actual student there.

"You need at least an 80% in cell biology, but must exceed 92% in all cell related test questions, however questions directly related to biology but not related to cells will count 50% towards the 92% requirement ... " ugh

haha! I moved here two years ago from California, and I love it here. I didn't think I would, and I'm so glad that I took the risk. However, it looks like I will need to move to California later this year, so I might not even get to apply to the University of Utah.
 
Second, get a good MCAT score. 35+ means you are in the elite range and competitive for pretty much any US school. 30+ puts you in a reasonable range for most allo schools. High 20s is a gray zone; you can apply, but you're applying at a disadvantage. You should seriously consider retaking if your score is less than 27 or so.


So, for an applicant with major clinical EC (volunteering/shadowing), but with a cGPA ~3.3 with closely following sGPA, 35 is still a score that will confer being competitive? This is uGPA, but will also have a strong grad GPA in life sciences (although from a traditional masters, not an SMP)

Thanks!
 
Concerning how to deal with the advisors who are insisting that you do need to do things that you don't really need to do, what I would suggest is that if you can reasonably meet their requests, go ahead and meet them. It won't kill you to do things like fit in a little extra shadowing here or there, or take an extra class in biochem. Those things probably won't be dealbreakers at most med schools if you don't do them, but they aren't unreasonable things to do.

You two obviously don't need me to tell you that asking nontrads to change jobs is extreme and unrealistic for many people. I suggest that you handle this situation by telling your advisors what you're going to do to "make up" for the lack of on-the-job clinical experience in other ways. So for example, if you're not going to quit your job to be an MA, maybe you'll take a first aid course and volunteer to teach first aid once a month. If you're not going to volunteer as a research assistant, maybe you'll take a class that requires a mini-research project next semester. In other words, substitute something analogous but realistic for their unrealistic suggestions, which will let them know you're not just ignoring their input. Because you're right: you will need these people's support to apply if they're compiling your committee LOR.

Hope this helps, and best of luck. 🙂

Q, Thanks! This is really helpful.
 
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