hbosch

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The other thing with a bad job market that many new grads or even a few years out people don't think about is that if the job market sucks, and you're easily replaceable, your department is far less likely to listen to you in terms of needs (ie good staff (better dosimetry, physics, therapists, nurses), more staff, updated technology- and since you are crucially dependent on some or all of these aspects of your job, your job can be quite miserable and the leadership (be it the the hospital or the physician leaders) won't care about your concerns as you are easily replaceable). Remember that not every physician cares about safe practices and these physicians might be your leader, and if your leader thinks you're replaceable, they will say goodbye to you for complaining. If your leader doesn't think you're replaceable then they might work harder to keep you. In a bad market, every physician except the best friend/relative or the person working 90 -100 hrs a week (doing the work of 2 physicians) is replaceable- and even the latter becomes replaceable after a certain turning point. I have seen practices hiring relatives and unmerited friends of the chair or top leadership, keeping those "friends" even when another person of the same capacity would have been relieved of their duties, hiring children of referring physicians or close friends of referring physicians, and if these people were competent it's not the most horrid of things, but if they are incompetent, it is both unsafe and infuriating because the unrelated people will be doing their job while they get the same or better pay, and well, woe be the patients being managed by them [likely they aren't the ones managing, likely the father/mother/best friend is doing the actually managing while patting said person on the back...I heard of a practice where the offspring would not approve of a head and neck plan without having their dad review it first- I don't know this first hand though, I know it second hand]. Can you imagine being the unrelated person in this practice? People also hire friends as staff (nurses, managers) with not the best results. One can also argue well it's not hiring my best friend, it's "networking."

This effectively places doctors in an unsafe work environment which is neither good for the doctor nor all those patients under treatment and again, that means the law should start getting involved- ultimately patient safety is affected on so many levels. And it's not patient safety that JCO can catch. It's also "murky" patient safety- one can debate the competency of staff or son/daughter of the chiar person- it's not clear cut patient safety like expired medication.
 
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RickyScott

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The other thing with a bad job market that many new grads or even a few years out people don't think about is that if the job market sucks, and you're easily replaceable, your department is far less likely to listen to you in terms of needs (ie good staff (better dosimetry, physics, therapists, nurses), more staff, updated technology- and since you are crucially dependent on some or all of these aspects of your job, your job can be quite miserable and the leadership (be it the the hospital or the physician leaders) won't care about your concerns as you are easily replaceable). Remember that not every physician cares about safe practices and these physicians might be your leader, and if your leader thinks you're replaceable, they will say goodbye to you for complaining. If your leader doesn't think you're replaceable then they might work harder to keep you. In a bad market, every physician except the best friend/relative or the person working 90 -100 hrs a week (doing the work of 2 physicians) is replaceable- and even the latter becomes replaceable after a certain turning point. I have seen practices hiring relatives and unmerited friends of the chair or top leadership, keeping those "friends" even when another person of the same capacity would have been relieved of their duties, hiring children of referring physicians or close friends of referring physicians, and if these people were competent it's not the most horrid of things, but if they are incompetent, it is both unsafe and infuriating because the unrelated people will be doing their job while they get the same or better pay, and well, woe be the patients being managed by them [likely they aren't the ones managing, likely the father/mother/best friend is doing the actually managing while patting said person on the back...I heard of a practice where the offspring would not approve of a head and neck plan without having their dad review it first- I don't know this first hand though, I know it second hand]. Can you imagine being the unrelated person in this practice? People also hire friends as staff (nurses, managers) with not the best results. One can also argue well it's not hiring my best friend, it's "networking."

This effectively places doctors in an unsafe work environment which is neither good for the doctor nor all those patients under treatment and again, that means the law should start getting involved- ultimately patient safety is affected on so many levels. And it's not patient safety that JCO can catch. It's also "murky" patient safety- one can debate the competency of staff or son/daughter of the chiar person- it's not clear cut patient safety like expired medication.
Until you are in hospital employed practice for a while, you won’t appreciate how oversupply can really sour a workplace.
 
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thecarbonionangle

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Out of the 100+ applications we want the top tier residency grads, preferably MD/PhD. My chair has told me that you have to lie to them to get them to come.

so are you admitting that you’re basically doing the bidding of the chair while they sit back and keep their fingers clean? Not a great way to accumulate good karma, mate. Stay woke!
 
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thecarbonionangle

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The other thing with a bad job market that many new grads or even a few years out people don't think about is that if the job market sucks, and you're easily replaceable, your department is far less likely to listen to you in terms of needs (ie good staff (better dosimetry, physics, therapists, nurses), more staff, updated technology- and since you are crucially dependent on some or all of these aspects of your job, your job can be quite miserable and the leadership (be it the the hospital or the physician leaders) won't care about your concerns as you are easily replaceable). Remember that not every physician cares about safe practices and these physicians might be your leader, and if your leader thinks you're replaceable, they will say goodbye to you for complaining. If your leader doesn't think you're replaceable then they might work harder to keep you. In a bad market, every physician except the best friend/relative or the person working 90 -100 hrs a week (doing the work of 2 physicians) is replaceable- and even the latter becomes replaceable after a certain turning point. I have seen practices hiring relatives and unmerited friends of the chair or top leadership, keeping those "friends" even when another person of the same capacity would have been relieved of their duties, hiring children of referring physicians or close friends of referring physicians, and if these people were competent it's not the most horrid of things, but if they are incompetent, it is both unsafe and infuriating because the unrelated people will be doing their job while they get the same or better pay, and well, woe be the patients being managed by them [likely they aren't the ones managing, likely the father/mother/best friend is doing the actually managing while patting said person on the back...I heard of a practice where the offspring would not approve of a head and neck plan without having their dad review it first- I don't know this first hand though, I know it second hand]. Can you imagine being the unrelated person in this practice? People also hire friends as staff (nurses, managers) with not the best results. One can also argue well it's not hiring my best friend, it's "networking."

This effectively places doctors in an unsafe work environment which is neither good for the doctor nor all those patients under treatment and again, that means the law should start getting involved- ultimately patient safety is affected on so many levels. And it's not patient safety that JCO can catch. It's also "murky" patient safety- one can debate the competency of staff or son/daughter of the chiar person- it's not clear cut patient safety like expired medication.

rad oncs these days a dime a dozen as they say. They are like a cheap printer, a washer, or a dryer. There is no point fixing it because i can just get a brand new one in a few years for probably less money and made in China. All you can do is keep printing, washing and drying and hope for the best, folks! I know, i know, not quite re-assuring but what can one do??!!
 
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DukeNukem

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so are you admitting that you’re basically doing the bidding of the chair while they sit back and keep their fingers clean? Not a great way to accumulate good karma, mate. Stay woke!

I never lie. I would rather go to the breadline than mislead someone into a job here. When I interview I tell nothing but 100% the truth. I know that they must not have rigged my office with a mic because I would have been fired by now. There are rumors that we are being recorded. Hopefully they're not keylogging me right now. Before you think I'm a lunatic, I never thought of this on my own--these are the things others say to me in hushed voices when they are also complaining about working here.

Anyway, my chair asked me to meet with someone who had a sort of similar background to me. I responded that I'm not meeting my goals here, what am I supposed to tell this guy? The reply was along those lines that you have to lie to get people in the door. Like are you purposely trying to demoralize me or do you really not understand what you just said to me? Anyway, I didn't end up meeting with that person and they went elsewhere. My chair and vice chair have said all sorts of gems like that to me. We don't talk much, but when you talk to them as one of the peons, you wish you hadn't. A lot of faculty go out of their way to avoid the "leadership" for this reason.

The "leadership" tries to only get cheerleaders to interview faculty recruits, but sometimes there aren't enough cheerleaders around on a given day to keep a recruit occupied for even half a day. I mean half our faculty are looking for new jobs at any given time, and they know it. People are so miserable that at least one a year resigns out of disgust without having a new job lined up, and some have gone unemployed afterwards for years.

"Leadership" has to be pretty desperate to call me to interview. I don't openly show my disgust in public because I do genuinely fear for my job and if I'll ever find another one if I lose this one, but they know that I'm not a cheerleader.

Resident interviews are a different story. They are extremely careful as to who gets to talk with residency recruits, and it's pretty impossible to actually have time with a residency candidate unsupervised by "leadership".
 
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thecarbonionangle

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I never lie. I would rather go to the breadline than mislead someone into a job here. When I interview I tell nothing but 100% the truth. I know that they must not have rigged my office with a mic because I would have been fired by now. There are rumors that we are being recorded. Hopefully they're not keylogging me right now. Before you think I'm a lunatic, I never thought of this on my own--these are the things others say to me in hushed voices when they are also complaining about working here.

Anyway, my chair asked me to meet with someone who had a sort of similar background to me. I responded that I'm not meeting my goals here, what am I supposed to tell this guy? The reply was along those lines that you have to lie to get people in the door. Like are you purposely trying to demoralize me or do you really not understand what you just said to me? Anyway, I didn't end up meeting with that person and they went elsewhere. My chair and vice chair have said all sorts of gems like that to me. We don't talk much, but when you talk to them as one of the peons, you wish you hadn't. A lot of faculty go out of their way to avoid the "leadership" for this reason.

The "leadership" tries to only get cheerleaders to interview faculty recruits, but sometimes there aren't enough cheerleaders around on a given day to keep a recruit occupied for even half a day. I mean half our faculty are looking for new jobs at any given time, and they know it. People are so miserable that at least one a year resigns out of disgust without having a new job lined up, and some have gone unemployed afterwards for years.

"Leadership" has to be pretty desperate to call me to interview. I don't openly show my disgust in public because I do genuinely fear for my job and if I'll ever find another one if I lose this one, but they know that I'm not a cheerleader.

Resident interviews are a different story. They are extremely careful as to who gets to talk with residency recruits, and it's pretty impossible to actually have time with a residency candidate unsupervised by "leadership".

damn man I’m sorry to hear that. I totally would be paranoid too and absolutely check the room for wires and mics, like weekly. It sound like you work for shirtless Putin. And we all know that is how they got the pee tape in Moscow. Chairs are always pissing on people and telling you it is rain. They think we don’t know. Total russian mafia stuff. I guess that is what is has come to in this field. SAD. Very sad stuff,folks!
 
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scarbrtj

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damn man I’m sorry to hear that. I totally would be paranoid too and absolutely check the room for wires and mics, like weekly. It sound like you work for shirtless Putin. And we all know that is how they got the pee tape in Moscow. Chairs are always pissing on people and telling you it is rain. They think we don’t know. Total russian mafia stuff. I guess that is what is has come to in this field. SAD. Very sad stuff,folks!
Liking this comment in loving memory of KHE88
 
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RickyScott

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many of the md/phds graduating are top tier and they really are indistinguishable in terms of quality. If you are in a decent location and tell them they have to work 51/2 days a weeks and spend an hour or 2 cleaning the bathroom, you will still get someone of Very high caliber. Will dawn on your chair soon that he does not need to lie.
 
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thecarbonionangle

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Guys I don't know what we're worried about - MGH just posted a job! Sure, board certification and 2+ years experience is required...but the market is fine, right? Right.

people are competing with their own attendings for jobs. Be careful who you tell about your jobs and contracts, folks!
 
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Appointment as an Instructor or Assistant Professor at the Harvard Medical School will be commensurate with experience, training and achievements in addition to teaching activities.

So you can be BC, 2 years out of residency, covering a satellite half the week, and treating the two most demanding sites (GYN and H&N) simultaneously? All while appointed as an HMS instructor making what... $180k/year?

WHERE DO I APPLY?

:barf:
 
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StIGMA

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So you can be BC, 2 years out of residency, covering a satellite half the week, and treating the two most demanding sites (GYN and H&N) simultaneously? All while appointed as an HMS instructor making what... $180k/year?

WHERE DO I APPLY?

:barf:

That sounds awful. I will say that this past year in my dept, all new radonc faculty were hired as assistant professor, while the heme/oncs were hired as instructors (about 1/2 the salary). Seeing increasing instructor positions in our field will be the next step down- once it starts in a department, it won't reverse easily.
 
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thecarbonionangle

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That sounds awful. I will say that this past year in my dept, all new radonc faculty were hired as assistant professor, while the heme/oncs were hired as instructors (about 1/2 the salary). Seeing increasing instructor positions in our field will be the next step down- once it starts in a department, it won't reverse easily.

this is basically already happening in the PhD world of academia. Many universities now hire many “instructors“ with no benefits and terrible pay. Some instructors from HCOL areas live in cars or under bridges. Gone are the days of a tenure track jobs with excellent benefits and a pension. Everything is about exploitation now. It was only a matter of time for medicine to catch up.

Relevant song and lyrics from my gurl:
 
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medgator

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So you can be BC, 2 years out of residency, covering a satellite half the week, and treating the two most demanding sites (GYN and H&N) simultaneously? All while appointed as an HMS instructor making what... $180k/year?

WHERE DO I APPLY?

:barf:
You forgot those excellent new England winters
 
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Gfunk6

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So you can be BC, 2 years out of residency, covering a satellite half the week, and treating the two most demanding sites (GYN and H&N) simultaneously? All while appointed as an HMS instructor making what... $180k/year?

WHERE DO I APPLY?

:barf:

But you can tell all your friends and family that you work at . . .

1595284543892.png
 
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w00tz

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people are competing with their own attendings for jobs. Be careful who you tell about your jobs and contracts, folks!
Legit saw this happen a few years ago. Senior resident was asking about advice about a certain practice and the attending goes behind the resident's back and asks the practice about openings. Fortunately, the practice saw how sleezy it was and stuck with the senior resident. It can definitely get ugly.
 
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dieABRdie

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Legit saw this happen a few years ago. Senior resident was asking about advice about a certain practice and the attending goes behind the resident's back and asks the practice about openings. Fortunately, the practice saw how sleezy it was and stuck with the senior resident. It can definitely get ugly.
 

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thecarbonionangle

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although he strikes me as a fool-me-twice-shame-on-me kinda guy

There’s an old saying in rural TN. People are saying!

 
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Maybe we should start a combined "Radiation Oncology and Pathology Oversupply" forum...I feel like many of our posts are interchangeable:

 
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zpiff

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Posted on youtube for those interested:
 
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