Summer Before MS1 Poll

[slopes23]

I know there is another thread that is active on this very topic but I wanted to poll people to have some quantifiable metrics. ONLY REPLY TO THE POLL IF YOU ARE A MEDICAL STUDENT OR "GREATER" (lol).

There seems to be some conflicting opinions on whether or not MS0 research is worth it or not. So let's hear it, is it worth it to do summer research before medical school (assuming you can get a publication out of it)

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[ksmi117]

I did it and didn't get a pub. Even so I thought it was a great way to spend the summer and meet some of my classmates/get acquainted to a new city early. Wasn't mentioned on my residency interviews, but it still went on my application.

 

[jqueb29]

NO NO NO. Don't do anything the summer before you start medical school.

 

[Merely]

You can't just assume that you can get a publication out of it lol. You should assume that you won't get a pub out of it since getting a pub during a summer of research is more likely to not happen. It's a personal decision at the end of the day.

 

[slopes23]

You can't just assume that you can get a publication out of it lol. You should assume that you won't get a pub out of it since getting a pub during a summer of research is more likely to not happen. It's a personal decision at the end of the day.

Understood, but I guess I phrase it like I did to see if one were to get "lucky" and achieve a pub if the equation were to change. I imagine at the very least it may be a nice way to make connections and get a heard start on a pub for the MS1-2 summer. But then again, what do I know, which is why I ask!

 

[Kelevra]

Understood, but I guess I phrase it like I did to see if one were to get "lucky" and achieve a pub if the equation were to change. I imagine at the very least it may be a nice way to make connections and get a heard start on a pub for the MS1-2 summer. But then again, what do I know, which is why I ask!

I'm only an MS0, but I think that if you knew you'd get a pub (as your prompt says), it certainly would change the equation, and a lot more students would do it. As another poster stated, if it's probably not likely to get one, then that's probably a good reason why students just relax before school, aside from traveling or work/personal reasons.

Kind of like, "if you could write an essay and assume you'd win a scholarship, would you do it?" Well, yeah, if I knew I'd get it. Pubs are absolutely different, but the underlying concept is not.

 

[Wordead]

For networking, learning the city, etc....no. Pointless. What does you're confident you'll get a pub mean? Are you guaranteed a 1st/2nd author pub by your PI?

 

[Stagg737]

If you are absolutely 1000% sure you'd be able to get a pub out of it and you'll still have some time to relax then I think it would be worth it. Especially if you had a gap year or more. If you're coming straight out of undergrad and think it'll be stressful/won't get to relax, don't do it. You'll have plenty of time to get stuff done in med school, enjoy you summer of no responsibilities while you can.

 

[slopes23]

If you are absolutely 1000% sure you'd be able to get a pub out of it and you'll still have some time to relax then I think it would be worth it. Especially if you had a gap year or more. If you're coming straight out of undergrad and think it'll be stressful/won't get to relax, don't do it. You'll have plenty of time to get stuff done in med school, enjoy you summer of no responsibilities while you can.

No guarantees in life unfortunately. But this summer would be the end of Gap year #2. But I say confident because assume one could find a lab with a PI that puts out a lot of pubs and after speaking with them they make you feel as if they could find a meaningful place for you on their team.... Poll seems relatively split at least within standard deviation....

I don't want to waste a summer doing research that won't help me, but similarly, I wouldn't mind devoting my summer to research if it will give me a little boost come residency application time.....

Poop shoots.

 

[Wordead]

No guarantees in life unfortunately. But this summer would be the end of Gap year #2. But I say confident because assume one could find a lab with a PI that puts out a lot of pubs and after speaking with them they make you feel as if they could find a meaningful place for you on their team.... Poll seems relatively split at least within standard deviation....

I don't want to waste a summer doing research that won't help me, but similarly, I wouldn't mind devoting my summer to research if it will give me a little boost come residency application time.....

Poop shoots.

Just because the PI puts out a lot of pubs doesn't mean you will be first or second author. Sounds like you have not published before and will have a steep learning curve. Doing research for your last summer for "maybe" a little boost is not worth it in the least. Few people care about research "experience" without results.

 

[Kelevra]

Just because the PI puts out a lot of pubs doesn't mean you will be first or second author. Sounds like you have not published before and will have a steep learning curve. Doing research for your last summer for "maybe" a little boost is not worth it in the least. Few people care about research "experience" without results.

Since we're on the topic...I've seen threads on this, but I figured this thread would also be appropriate to ask: how do certain students acquire so many publications (>2-3) when applying for competitive residencies? I've heard that most students do research between MS1 and MS2, which leaves only s sliver of summer. I've also heard that students generally do not do research during M1, and little during M2, due to even less time, plus Step studying. I assume the answer is obviously that they do use M1 and M2? Stupid question, but I'm impressed at the number of publications during medical school of some students who I've spoken to faculty and others about.

 

[slopes23]

Just because the PI puts out a lot of pubs doesn't mean you will be first or second author. Sounds like you have not published before and will have a steep learning curve. Doing research for your last summer for "maybe" a little boost is not worth it in the least. Few people care about research "experience" without results.

Didn't know you you were able to ascertain my previous research or publishing experience based on posts unrelated to my past? FWIW I did substantial research as an undergrad and was published as an author for an article that ultimately made it to Cell. Just didn't feel mentioning it as a humble brag. But you had to ask so nicely...


Regardless, my previous experience was basic science research where as this would be more clinical research in scope so undoubtedly I'm sure a learning curve would still exist. But what I am trying to understand is what in first year is going to prepare me so well specifically for clinical research that this same learning curve does not exist when I choose to do research during the summer after MS1? Why then will it magically be more feasible to get published?

Excuse my tone, but you brought a condescending aura into the thread that was neither warranted or welcome.

 

[Wordead]

Since we're on the topic...I've seen threads on this, but I figured this thread would also be appropriate to ask: how do certain students acquire so many publications (>2-3) when applying for competitive residencies? I've heard that most students do research between MS1 and MS2, which leaves only s sliver of summer. I've also heard that students generally do not do research during M1, and little during M2, due to even less time, plus Step studying. I assume the answer is obviously that they do use M1 and M2? Stupid question, but I'm impressed at the number of publications during medical school of some students who I've spoken to faculty and others about.

Yes, you can do it anytime M0-M3. Whether or not you publish and how many pubs you get depends on a mix of your PI, your own abillities, and some dumb luck. I had classmates do research during all 4 years with variable results.

There's always a year off too, which is becoming more and more necessary in the ultra competitive specialties.

 

[Wordead]

Didn't know you you were able to ascertain my previous research or publishing experience based on posts unrelated to my past? FWIW I did substantial research as an undergrad and was published as an author for an article that ultimately made it to Cell. Just didn't feel mentioning it as a humble brag. But you had to ask so nicely...


Regardless, my previous experience was basic science research where as this would be more clinical research in scope so undoubtedly I'm sure a learning curve would still exist. But what I am trying to understand is what in first year is going to prepare me so well specifically for clinical research so that this same learning curve does not exist when I choose to do research during the summer after MS1? Why then will it magically be more feasible to get published?

Excuse my tone, but you brought a condescending aura into the thread that was neither warranted or welcome.

No need to get offended. It sounded like you were desperate for pubs and inexperienced from your post. If you have a Cell paper, I don't really see the point of doing M0 research. Clinical research is fast to publish - I pumped out 3 papers M3 year. The learning curve is pretty low compared to basic science research, IF you've actually written papers and such as you're saying.

 

[Kelevra]

Yes, you can do it anytime M0-M3. Whether or not you publish and how many pubs you get depends on a mix of your PI, your own abillities, and some dumb luck. I had classmates do research during all 4 years with variable results.

There's always a year off too, which is becoming more and more necessary in the ultra competitive specialties.

I suppose so; It's a bit crazy to think about juggling school, ECs, USMLE studying (M2 year, of course), and dedicated research. And this thread doesn't necessarily qualm the worry : http://forums.studentdoctor.net/threads/publications-and-residency.1116324/#post-16075603

Also, I'm not sure how I'd feel about taking a year off.

 

[slopes23]

I was not first or second author as it was not the policy of my lab, but I made substantial contributions to the paper and helped write/edit it, but again do not claim responsibility for the paper or it's written contents in its entirety. Just saying that I do in fact have some prior experience took us about 2 years to get that study finished and published.

 

[Wordead]

I suppose so; It's a bit crazy to think about juggling school, ECs, USMLE studying (M2 year, of course), and dedicated research. And this thread doesn't necessarily qualm the worry : http://forums.studentdoctor.net/threads/publications-and-residency.1116324/#post-16075603

Also, I'm not sure how I'd feel about taking a year off.

People always balk at the year off, but really it's only a year of your life and you're making connections in your field and learning a ton.

And people manage to juggle everything just fine. If you just do a few hours a week, it adds up. You have plenty of time during M1 and M2, if you can prioritize your time.

I was not first or second author as it was not the policy of my lab, but I made substantial contributions to the paper and helped write/edit it, but again do not claim responsibility for the paper or it's written contents in its entirety. Just saying that I do in fact have some prior experience took us about 2 years to get that study finished and published.

Is it still beneficial if you are not 1st or 2nd author?

A paper in Cell is pretty impressive regardless of authorship position. And probably way more impressive than anything you're going to accomplish as a M0 in 2 months. Writing a paper with the knowledge base of a M0 seems rather difficult, in my opinion.

 

[cbrons]

Didn't know you you were able to ascertain my previous research or publishing experience based on posts unrelated to my past? FWIW I did substantial research as an undergrad and was published as an author for an article that ultimately made it to Cell. Just didn't feel mentioning it as a humble brag. But you had to ask so nicely...


Regardless, my previous experience was basic science research where as this would be more clinical research in scope so undoubtedly I'm sure a learning curve would still exist. But what I am trying to understand is what in first year is going to prepare me so well specifically for clinical research that this same learning curve does not exist when I choose to do research during the summer after MS1? Why then will it magically be more feasible to get published?

Excuse my tone, but you brought a condescending aura into the thread that was neither warranted or welcome.

lol

 

[TaroBubbleTea]

Personally, I would just relax the summer before medical school, unless the research opportunity you are talking about is something you can potentially continue or expand on during medical school.

 

[JP2740]

I was published as author primary on paper in natur. How well will this get me residency at university IM. Plz response

 

[Stagg737]

Since we're on the topic...I've seen threads on this, but I figured this thread would also be appropriate to ask: how do certain students acquire so many publications (>2-3) when applying for competitive residencies? I've heard that most students do research between MS1 and MS2, which leaves only s sliver of summer. I've also heard that students generally do not do research during M1, and little during M2, due to even less time, plus Step studying. I assume the answer is obviously that they do use M1 and M2? Stupid question, but I'm impressed at the number of publications during medical school of some students who I've spoken to faculty and others about.

I started research this year (M1) and will be continuing through 4th year. I'm expecting to get 2-3 pubs out before 3rd year. Additionally, you can do a research rotation as an elective at many schools and get a solid pub or put out a few case studies (or both). If you don't want to just take a full year 'off', some schools offer fellowships. Our school has anatomy fellows who are considered faculty for a year (between M2 and M3), receive a 25k stipend for that year and the school gives them free tuition for years 3 and 4 (total of 115k total between the stipend and tuition before you add in interest that would have accrued). Most of our fellows put out at least 4 publications during that year. If you really want to get a few publications (3-5), it's easily doable if you find the right PI and commit yourself.

 

[Kelevra]

I started research this year (M1) and will be continuing through 4th year. I'm expecting to get 2-3 pubs out before 3rd year. Additionally, you can do a research rotation as an elective at many schools and get a solid pub or put out a few case studies (or both). If you don't want to just take a full year 'off', some schools offer fellowships. Our school has anatomy fellows who are considered faculty for a year (between M2 and M3), receive a 25k stipend for that year and the school gives them free tuition for years 3 and 4 (total of 115k total between the stipend and tuition before you add in interest that would have accrued). Most of our fellows put out at least 4 publications during that year. If you really want to get a few publications (3-5), it's easily doable if you find the right PI and commit yourself.

That's really good to hear. Did you begin when medical school began, or did you wait until the second half of the year? Did you find that it affected you at all with your studies?

 

[moisne]

No guarantees in life unfortunately. But this summer would be the end of Gap year #2. But I say confident because assume one could find a lab with a PI that puts out a lot of pubs and after speaking with them they make you feel as if they could find a meaningful place for you on their team.... Poll seems relatively split at least within standard deviation....

I don't want to waste a summer doing research that won't help me, but similarly, I wouldn't mind devoting my summer to research if it will give me a little boost come residency application time.....

Poop shoots.

Are you doing clinical research or bench? No way you publish bench. Just writing the paper would take 1 month, don't forget literature searches will take at least a few months. Bench - don't forget all the failed experiments.

You are sounding like you never did research before - ever. It's pretty naive.

 

[slopes23]

Are you doing clinical research or bench? No way you publish bench. Just writing the paper would take 1 month, don't forget literature searches will take at least a few months. Bench - don't forget all the failed experiments.

You are sounding like you never did research before - ever. It's pretty naive.

Why don't you read the whole thread before you make ignorant comments about people whom you believe are naive. I have done research before, have been published before and it was basic science. Aside from that, I expressed that my desire would be now shifted towards clinical research. So thanks for the support.

See Post #12 second paragraph, first sentence.

 

[moisne]

Why don't you read the whole thread before you make ignorant comments about people whom you believe are naive. I have done research before, have been published before and it was basic science. Aside from that, I expressed that my desire would be now shifted towards clinical research. So thanks for the support.

See Post #12 second paragraph, first sentence.

Congrats - you had a rare experience - don't expect it to always happen.

Most experiments/hypothesis fail.
I have better things to do with my time than to read every sentence of every post.

 

[slopes23]

Congrats - you had a rare experience - don't expect it to always happen.

Most experiments/hypothesis fail.
I have better things to do with my time than to read every sentence of every post.

Cool. Totally understand. But if you don't, then you should re-consider calling people naive when you knowingly don't have all your information. They have a word for opining on things without caring to know or taking the time to know about the subject on which you are talking about. I believe it's called ignorance.

 

[Psai]

I would relax but getting a pub or two is good for you
no guarantees

medical school is a grind though, especially the first two years
you don't want to start out tired of science

 

[slopes23]

I would relax but getting a pub or two is good for you
no guarantees

medical school is a grind though, especially the first two years
you don't want to start out tired of science

I'm worried about this too. Sigh. But the gunner inside me says suck it up. What to do... :/

 

[moisne]

If you have that much confidence - go to a PI say "hey, I wanna get a first author publication in 2-3 months" let me know how you do it if it happens - totally serious. It's taken me 1 week to get lab clearance, 2 weeks of literature research, and so far after 2 months of bench research - we have some data that can be used - but nothing "wow" that can go into any big journals.

Kill that gunner inside of you - it's most likely you won't be in the top of your class and I bet many med students get a dose of humbleness and they eventually probably realize they aren't going to be the top and that's OK.

 

[slopes23]

If you have that much confidence - go to a PI say "hey, I wanna get a first author publication in 2-3 months" let me know how you do it if it happens - totally serious. It's taken me 1 week to get lab clearance, 2 weeks of literature research, and so far after 2 months of bench research - we have some data that can be used - but nothing "wow" that can go into any big journals.

Kill that gunner inside of you - it's most likely you won't be in the top of your class and I bet many med students get a dose of humbleness and they eventually probably realize they aren't going to be the top and that's OK.

Not sure what you deal is..... You yourself recognize that bench research takes a lot longer to have something that is publishable. I worked on my project for 2 yrs before we had something substantial and had done enough revisions to our article....

I already told you I have no interest in bench research, I want to do clinical. So why you keep harking back to bench is unknown to me.

Additionally, I don't need to get a first author pub even a clinical research topic. I would be just fine an dandy doing a peer review article, or getting 2nd or omg even 3rd other on something my PI is doing if he felt I contributed. I know it's relatively small time and unimpressive but you know what, I'm sure it would still help me in some form come interview time.

All medical students have gunners inside them. My definition of gunner is do the best I can. That's it. It's not some crazy gotta kill everyone else's opportunities or dream. I also never said anything about classes or how to be at the top of my class.

So again, not sure what your deal is.... Maybe you are just mad because you tried to act all cool before by saying oh I have better things to do then to read every sentence of every post; just to realize what you were openly admitted was I'm an ignorant SOB. Sorry, not sorry.

 

[seminoma]

Don't bring any baggage with you to med school. Unfinished projects = baggage.

Finish something if you're already working on it, but don't start something new.

 

[moisne]

Dude take a chill pill