Summer between M1 & M2

[ShySpliceosome]

I am an MS1 just beginning my second semester, and I am interested in general surgery. I am an out-of-state student, and I am planning to spend this summer with my family. I am in the process of applying to a med student summer research program at a university close to where my family lives, but if I end up not getting accepted to it and end up not doing research between M1 and M2, is that a bad thing? I would rather not do out-of-state research due to the cost of temporary housing as well as the fact that I would most likely be away from my family for 2 out of 3 months at the least (family time is valuable to me ). I wouldn't mind a month-long out-of-state summer research program, but the ones I've looked at are 8-12 weeks.
Another option that I am considering is a 4-week medical summer outreach program that includes physician shadowing and medical volunteer work in an underserved community.

I have several questions:

1.) Is general surgery a highly competitive residency? I read somewhere that it is moderately competitive, but I'm not sure how reliable that source was.
2.) Is research practically a requirement to enter a surgery residency?
3.) Does summer research hold more weight (versus a medical summer outreach program) when it comes to being accepted to a residency program?
4.) Are there usually alternative opportunities for research during the clinical years? If so, is it advantageous to do research sooner (M1-M2) rather than later (M3-M4)?

(I realize that my interest in surgery may change in the next few years, and that I may not end up choosing surgery as my specialty, but I just want to be well prepared if I do end up going that route.)

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[Kahreek]

If God leads you to it, He will lead you through it.

 

[Patassa]

Do research this summer, damned if you don't.

 

[Samir Desai]

Even though general surgery is competitive, it's not a requirement to do research to match into the specialty. That said, there are some programs that highly value research. In terms of when to do research, the summer between M1 and M2 is great because it leaves you with a lot of time left in your med school career to follow the project all the way to completion (publication and presentation) before you apply for residency. Research on the general surgery residency selection process has shown that published research is much more important to programs than involvement alone. Summer research also allows you to develop a relationship with a faculty member, and that can be key in reaching your professional goals. Good luck with the research.

Samir Desai

 

[operaman]

1.) Is general surgery a highly competitive residency? I read somewhere that it is moderately competitive, but I'm not sure how reliable that source was.
2.) Is research practically a requirement to enter a surgery residency?
3.) Does summer research hold more weight (versus a medical summer outreach program) when it comes to being accepted to a residency program?
4.) Are there usually alternative opportunities for research during the clinical years? If so, is it advantageous to do research sooner (M1-M2) rather than later (M3-M4)?

(I realize that my interest in surgery may change in the next few years, and that I may not end up choosing surgery as my specialty, but I just want to be well prepared if I do end up going that route.)

1) Yes and no. Some programs are extremely competitive while others are less so. You can look at the charting the outcomes numbers to get a sense of the field overall. Beware looking at some numbers though -- I remember reading about a huge number of unmatched open spots in gen surg overall, but I believe that many/most of those were prelim (1 year) positions. A US MD with a solid average performance should be able to a find a position, with stronger performance opening doors to stronger programs.

2) Same as above. For some programs, yes. For others, not really.

3) Not really. What holds weight are actual publications and presentations/posters.

4) There are tons of research opportunities all the time. You have less free time during clinical years though. This summer is your last large block of free time. A guy 2 years ahead of me decided on a competitive surgical subspecialty during Feb of M3 and had 5 pubs by September when he submitted his ERAS application. He worked his @#$ off though.


If you haven't already done so, now would be a great time to find some faculty mentors in the dept of surgery at your school. All depts have faculty who are particularly good at this and your dean's office or the department admins will know who these people are and can steer you their way. You can always get involved in ongoing research even while you have classes going. You may be able to find some clinical projects you could work on remotely from home.

Perhaps more than any other field, surgery is an apprenticed craft and great value is placed on mentorship and the passing down of knowledge. If you're considering this field, the earlier you can get plugged in with good mentors, the better. In the end, your letters will be some of the most important parts of your application, so start getting to know people now so they can write you really good ones.

 

[erythrocyte666]

Speaking of research, does research from pre-med help? For example, in my gap year, if I start working on some medically-related research project, would that help if I stick to it for the following two summers (after years 1 and 2) and hence increased chances of more publications? In fact, this should also leave most of the summer after year 2 open for exclusive dedicated step I study time, no?
Also, should I start looking for faculty mentors during the gap year?

 

[Psai]

Research from college can be added but they probably won't look too deeply into it. Research done in a specialty helps because it shows real interest in the specialty. General surgery is in the middle somewhere in terms of competitiveness. Research can be a plus but not a minus is what people say. As others have said, it's what you publish that counts, not that you spent time inside of a laboratory. M3 you will have a lot less time than in m1 summer. M4 you won't have anything substantial in time to put it on your app. A medical summer outreach program is probably a waste of time.

Basically doing research can help you if you know what you want to do and it can't hurt but it's nice to do other things. Medical school can tire you out

 

[erythrocyte666]

Research from college can be added but they probably won't look too deeply into it. Research done in a specialty helps because it shows real interest in the specialty. General surgery is in the middle somewhere in terms of competitiveness. Research can be a plus but not a minus is what people say. As others have said, it's what you publish that counts, not that you spent time inside of a laboratory. M3 you will have a lot less time than in m1 summer. M4 you won't have anything substantial in time to put it on your app. A medical summer outreach program is probably a waste of time.

Basically doing research can help you if you know what you want to do and it can't hurt but it's nice to do other things. Medical school can tire you out

If I do research in gap year, wouldn't it increase chance of me getting publications when I continue it in med school? Also, could I do research in a specialty, but later end up choosing a different specialty (since my mind could be changed in med school)? Would that still help/hurt my chances at the specialty that I ultimately want? Thanks for the input.

 

[ace12345]

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[Psai]

If I do research in gap year, wouldn't it increase chance of me getting publications when I continue it in med school? Also, could I do research in a specialty, but later end up choosing a different specialty (since my mind could be changed in med school)? Would that still help/hurt my chances at the specialty that I ultimately want? Thanks for the input.

Depends. I don't know if you'll get into the same school or if your lab will still have funding etc. Research in a different field shows that you can sit down and do academic work but probably won't help much for a different field. It definitely won't hurt because people know that students change their minds. But if you're in an interview for general surgery and your application is full of ortho related things, they are going to wonder if they are a backup specialty in case you don't get into ortho

 

[GoPelicans]

Keep in mind you can still do research if you don't get accepted into this program. I applied for a summer fellowship thing, but the doctor who is sponsoring me said I can still work in his lab for 8 weeks even if I don't get funding... after all, $2,000 or whatever in funding is pocket change for a lot of these scientists.

I planned to do research in the lab of my gap year PI, but he up and left to the other side of the country a few months ago so that plan sorta fell through.

 

[operaman]

How would surgical residencies feel about research in oncology? Not really surgically-related, but I'm interested in surgical oncology going forward and was hoping this might apply. Would spinning it this way work?

Oncology research is broadly applicable to many fields, especially surgery. So long as you actually get pubs out of it.

 

[ShySpliceosome]

Research on the general surgery residency selection process has shown that published research is much more important to programs than involvement alone.

Thanks so much for this helpful info!

If you haven't already done so, now would be a great time to find some faculty mentors in the dept of surgery at your school. All depts have faculty who are particularly good at this and your dean's office or the department admins will know who these people are and can steer you their way. You can always get involved in ongoing research even while you have classes going. You may be able to find some clinical projects you could work on remotely from home.

Thanks for the advice! How does one go about finding these types of clinical projects?

Basically doing research can help you if you know what you want to do and it can't hurt but it's nice to do other things. Medical school can tire you out

Would you mind elaborating on this? What types of other things? Like vacationing/relaxing? Or being involved in a different type of summer medical program?

 

[operaman]

There are tons of clinical projects going on all the time in every department in an academic center. Ask your mentors in the department and they'll point you in the right direction.