Surg Path Fellowship at MSKCC
Started by pathdoc68
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pathdoc68 said:
Top notch program in terms of clinical material, faculty and facilities. Not much time to work on research projects during the general surgical fellowship, but if you are interested in academics, you can stay for an extra year focusing on a particular subspecialty. The faculty is very supportive, even post-fellowship, when looking for a job, etc. New York is a fun place to live, but that depends on your personal preference. Overall = 👍
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I'm on my way to a Onco-path fellowship at Roswell Park. I have been told that it is busy but not back breaking, and the see a fair amount of NON-onc (ok it is mostly R/O onc that is ruled out, but that is kinda good.. right? 
)
Ask me in 5-6 months..
)Ask me in 5-6 months..
the "mostly img" is no longer entirely true. while there are still a lot of img fellows there, the majority are not. in recent years, msk has attracted a lot of people who, even without the credentiallling year requirement, still feel they need one more year of general surgical pathology, especially from residency programs in the nyc area (cornell, columbia, sinai).
the specimens you will see there you will not see anywhere else with that frequency (with the exception of md anderson maybe), the faculty are leaders in their field and they are actively engaged in teaching and clinical projects/research (while true perhaps one will not be able to do any projects in that first year, most of the second year subspecialty fellows do a lot of them). also, you will get to see many of the big names' private consults in everything from lung (travis), gi (klimstra), neuro (rosenblum), soft tissue (antonescu), gu (reuter), bone (huvos), molecular (ladanyi), derm (busam)...
the clinical multi-team approach environment in the whole hospital is unbeatable. they provide cheap housing right next door and they pay relatively well. plus, you are in one of the nicest neighbourhoods in nyc.
downside: it *is* hard work and you still have to gross (although i heard that this year they are trying to make the grossing as painless as possible).
the specimens you will see there you will not see anywhere else with that frequency (with the exception of md anderson maybe), the faculty are leaders in their field and they are actively engaged in teaching and clinical projects/research (while true perhaps one will not be able to do any projects in that first year, most of the second year subspecialty fellows do a lot of them). also, you will get to see many of the big names' private consults in everything from lung (travis), gi (klimstra), neuro (rosenblum), soft tissue (antonescu), gu (reuter), bone (huvos), molecular (ladanyi), derm (busam)...
the clinical multi-team approach environment in the whole hospital is unbeatable. they provide cheap housing right next door and they pay relatively well. plus, you are in one of the nicest neighbourhoods in nyc.
downside: it *is* hard work and you still have to gross (although i heard that this year they are trying to make the grossing as painless as possible).
B
b&ierstiefel
YES!LADoc00 said:
Pathres2, I notice an apologetic tone in your post with regard to IMG. 😳 I would actually argue that the mostly IMG thing, weather true or not, is one of the assets of the MSKCC fellowship unless you feel uncomfortable working alongisde IMG. Unlike the situation with most residency programs, I suspect the IMG at MSKCC, or at any other competitive fellowship for that matter, are not there because the program couldnt fill with AMG only. Most over-compensate for potential disadvantages like communication skills, with superior knowledge fund and work ethic. Notice that half of the big names cited are IMG themselves.pathres2 said:
So that is one thing to take into account if you are considering applying to that fellowship: you will be working alongside IMG.
The upside is that most people who consider moving to NYC do not mind that. 😀LADoc00 said:
You're right. Its a total luxury. We have a PA at my place and thats about what we pay him. It really does free me up, though (look at all the spare time I have to post on SDN!)
I haven't grossed full-time in over 5 years now. I'll admit that I am spoiled. When our PA goes on vacation, I fill in once in a while and I am reminded how much it sucks to gross.
pathdawg said:
Sorry yes hehehe Jefferson Airplane and of course Kim Carnes' classic Bette Davis Eyes, maybe mixing in some Laura Branigan and Jon Parr (St. Elmos Fire)....luckily my GF is 20, so when I get too far out there, she mocks me enough so I download newer stuff like Coldplay....
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pathdawg said:
Damn guys! Coldplay isnt that gay, remember such greats as James Taylor, Cat Stevens and Paul Simon?? All sort of mellow chick type songs, good for listening to when smoking out on a cool summer evening in a beat up ass couch on your front porch while drinking Boone's Farm. I know pathdawg was a stoner once, dont try to deny it.
LADoc00 said:Damn guys! Coldplay isnt that gay, remember such greats as James Taylor, Cat Stevens and Paul Simon?? All sort of mellow chick type songs, good for listening to when smoking out on a cool summer evening in a beat up ass couch on your front porch while drinking Boone's Farm. I know pathdawg was a stoner once, dont try to deny it.
Oh, no he didn't! You didn't just put frickin' Coldplay in the same sentence as James Taylor, Cat Stevens, and Paul Simon. I see the basic premise of the mellow chick song comparison, but beyond this superficial similarity, there is one major difference: Coldplay's music has no redeeming value. In 20 years, nobody will even remember who Coldplay was. Listen to James Taylor, songs like Sweet Baby James or Country Road. Those songs still sound great over 35 years after they were written. Coldplay is a lame one-trick pony. Its like shooting fish in a barrel, making 19 year old girls dig your pseudo-romantic songs.
And my stoner past has nothing to do with it. I just take music very seriously.
You want good mellow music to chill out with on a cool summer night while drinking Boone's Farm? Try Van Morrison's Moondance, Marvin Gaye's What's Goin' On, or Miles Davis' So What. And try a better sipping beverage.
Oh, and to the OP: Sloan Kettering is overrated.
Later!
B
b&ierstiefel
Amen! There is nothing memorable about Coldplay songs.pathdawg said:
I was gonna chip in here with an I-like-Coldplay!-type post, but then I figured it wouldn't do LADoc00 any good on man-turf.
In a feeble attempt to get this thread back on track:
While the US News hospital rankings can be debated for an eternity, there's probably little disagreement that MSKCC and MDA are clearly far and away the best, or at least most specialized, cancer centers in the US, and the world.
The Path dept. at MSKCC famously claims that their pathologists see more rare tumors in a week, than most pathologists see in a year. And I swear they're telling the truth. Especially the consults are simply amazing. And in path, I might add that MSKCC perhaps as a leg up on MDA, because the former is still far better known internationally, so get more non-US consults - MDA is still very, very good, though.
SO as a Fellow, you WILL get to see some amazing stuff. And work with some amazing people.
However, there's also downsides that you'll need to be aware of. The main one is that MSKCC doesn't have Residents, so there WILL be an amount of scut work. It varies a lot from fellow to fellow, and from time to time, how much there is. But it's there.
Also, be aware that MSKCC really isn't known for taking their own fellows as Attendings. So don't be disappointed if they don't stand ready with a contract when your fellowship is up.
Thirdly, I probably wouldn't recommend just taking the surg path fellowship, and then move up into the world. Think of it as an extra Residency year, really. If you do want it, I strongly advise that you take a second-year subspec fellowship.
Fourthly, they really don't treat you with kids gloves. I've seen fellows being humiliated in public after a presentation, for lack of research, or the cardinal sin of copying a micrograph from the internet. However, when you sit at a multi-headed 'scope with one of the attendings mentioned in the previous posts, it's incredibly fascinating.
Is it worth two years of your life? I guess it depends on your plans. Frankly, if you're aiming for community-type pathology, it's probably overkill. Just diagnose the stuff you know, and send the rest off for consults. However, if you plan an academic career, and really feel strongly that you want to nail that difficult diagnosis perfectly, MSKCC probably offers the best training anywhere in the world.
While the US News hospital rankings can be debated for an eternity, there's probably little disagreement that MSKCC and MDA are clearly far and away the best, or at least most specialized, cancer centers in the US, and the world.
The Path dept. at MSKCC famously claims that their pathologists see more rare tumors in a week, than most pathologists see in a year. And I swear they're telling the truth. Especially the consults are simply amazing. And in path, I might add that MSKCC perhaps as a leg up on MDA, because the former is still far better known internationally, so get more non-US consults - MDA is still very, very good, though.
SO as a Fellow, you WILL get to see some amazing stuff. And work with some amazing people.
However, there's also downsides that you'll need to be aware of. The main one is that MSKCC doesn't have Residents, so there WILL be an amount of scut work. It varies a lot from fellow to fellow, and from time to time, how much there is. But it's there.
Also, be aware that MSKCC really isn't known for taking their own fellows as Attendings. So don't be disappointed if they don't stand ready with a contract when your fellowship is up.
Thirdly, I probably wouldn't recommend just taking the surg path fellowship, and then move up into the world. Think of it as an extra Residency year, really. If you do want it, I strongly advise that you take a second-year subspec fellowship.
Fourthly, they really don't treat you with kids gloves. I've seen fellows being humiliated in public after a presentation, for lack of research, or the cardinal sin of copying a micrograph from the internet. However, when you sit at a multi-headed 'scope with one of the attendings mentioned in the previous posts, it's incredibly fascinating.
Is it worth two years of your life? I guess it depends on your plans. Frankly, if you're aiming for community-type pathology, it's probably overkill. Just diagnose the stuff you know, and send the rest off for consults. However, if you plan an academic career, and really feel strongly that you want to nail that difficult diagnosis perfectly, MSKCC probably offers the best training anywhere in the world.
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PathOne said:
But what does this have to do with Jon Parr?
Seriously, good post. I agree with everything you said, especially the part about doing a subspecialty fellowship after the surgpath one.
The only thing I could add is regarding their practice of not hiring fellows. I have a few absolute rules about "attendinghood", and one of them is to never practice where you trained. Never. Its a mistake. It may seem to work out once in a while, but in the end, you are better off starting anew someplace else. You'll never quite be treated with the respect you deserve if everyone is familiar with you in a role of a trainee. So, not only should you not be disappointed if they don't offer you a contract at the end of the fellowship, you should be grateful.
One other thing. Coldplay really really does suck.
pathres2 said:
OK, here's the laydown on the ppl mentioned above:
Travis - Was brought in from the sadly now crumbling AFIP. Probably one of the top three in the world in his field.
Klimstra - Don't be afraid of heights! He's like ten feet tall. OK, perhaps not quite, but a seriously large man. Also #3 in the Dept. as head of Surg Path. Oh, and REALLY knows his intestines.
Rosenblum - The Chief. Brought in post-Juan Rosai (really long story). Very nice and agreeable. The Brain Guy (neuropath) in addition to chairmans things.
Antonescu - OK, she's not Chris Fletcher, and she's from Rumania and not exactly a party animal. But very highly respected, and not likely to suck blood from you, despite being from somewhere uncomfortably close to Transsylvania.
Reuter - Vice-chairman. Can be a bit hard to get to know, but really nice once you do. Things urological, he's your man.
Huvos - Still a Senior Attending, despite being more than 200 years old by now. and having been at the department before Ewing came, and after migrating from the Glorious Austro-Hungarian Empire (looks that way, anyways). Still, the weekly joint-team bone conferences with surg, raduiology etc. are simply the most amazing conferences in the world.
Ladanyi - Parles vous francais? Marc does, as he's Canadian. Also married to an MSKCC attending path. He's the Molecular Guy, and doing stuff on haematology on the side. Was named Young Investigator of the year by USCAP last year.
Busam - Ordnung muss sein! Klaus Busam is a kraut, err, German national. Trained in Dermpath at MGH. He's neither Bernie Ackerman, nor Phil LeBoit, but he's a solid dermguy.
Bottom line? If I, or anybody I know, ever got cancer (knock on wood), I'd fly them or myself form the other end of the world to MSKCC. Yes, they're that good.
Im completely unimpressed by SK faculty given its rep on the streets. I also openly scoff at people who somehow think seeing rare tumors means anything, it doesnt. I can easily and often recognize rare tumors I had never seen in training or seen only once because they have a distinctive appearence and presentation. If not they are going out in consultation regardless of my training background because even if you spent 5 years as a fellow there you arent going to be Klimstra.
I have no idea how "good" SK is at treating cancer, but I will bet the farm that they are no better than Stanford, UCSF, Farber or Hopkins (or similar class). They have no secret protocols or other such goodies.
And yes, Coldplay is somewhat gay but I also tend to collect 200 dollar Kenneth Cole shoes and 175 buck Hugo Boss button down shirts as well as a penchant for doggy-style so Im also grappling with gayness in other aspects of my life. I may need to see a mental health professional, Im not sure. I hope everyone will be supportive as I make it through this artistic rough spot...I have added Metallica to my ipod and will be using that as therapy for the time being.
I have no idea how "good" SK is at treating cancer, but I will bet the farm that they are no better than Stanford, UCSF, Farber or Hopkins (or similar class). They have no secret protocols or other such goodies.
And yes, Coldplay is somewhat gay but I also tend to collect 200 dollar Kenneth Cole shoes and 175 buck Hugo Boss button down shirts as well as a penchant for doggy-style so Im also grappling with gayness in other aspects of my life. I may need to see a mental health professional, Im not sure. I hope everyone will be supportive as I make it through this artistic rough spot...I have added Metallica to my ipod and will be using that as therapy for the time being.
Perhaps, if money were no objection... 😉PathOne said:
LADoc00 said:And yes, Coldplay is somewhat gay but I also tend to collect 200 dollar Kenneth Cole shoes and 175 buck Hugo Boss button down shirts as well as a penchant for doggy-style so Im also grappling with gayness in other aspects of my life. I may need to see a mental health professional, Im not sure. I hope everyone will be supportive as I make it through this artistic rough spot...I have added Metallica to my ipod and will be using that as therapy for the time being.
Okay...Not that there is anything wrong with that.
I don't know though, LA. Metallica? Sounds like you may be trying too hard.
"Travis - Was brought in from the sadly now crumbling AFIP. Probably one of the top three in the world in his field."
Sorry for the query pathone, but I'm a medical student and future military pathologist who saw the AFIP as one of the best aspects of military medicine. I know that the Base Realignment and Closure constantly screws around with the organizational structure of the institute, but its volume and research still has me believing it is one of the top centers in the nation.
Any insight you could provide into its current state would be appreciated.
Sorry for the query pathone, but I'm a medical student and future military pathologist who saw the AFIP as one of the best aspects of military medicine. I know that the Base Realignment and Closure constantly screws around with the organizational structure of the institute, but its volume and research still has me believing it is one of the top centers in the nation.
Any insight you could provide into its current state would be appreciated.
pathdawg said:
Yes the US government has destroyed the AFIP as well as shattering the moral of the entire military. I thought this day would never come.
I personally advocate the rise of the second "Confederacy" (though toying with the idea of a "Federation of North America" [FNA] or Federation of American States [FAS]). Under this new government, the AFIP will be returned to its former glory and free copies of new and improved fasicles will be had by all residents.
LADoc00 said:
I am on board, LA. I prefer to pronounce it "Confedera-sai" (ala Cartman). In our new "Confedera-sai", we not only will we restore the AFIP to its former glory, but we'll make pathology the "top rung" in the medical ladder, allowing for pathologists to make the most money and run the show in medicine.
Oh yeah, and in a Taliban-like move, we'll ban all crappy 80's music, and Coldplay, too (of course).
Ours will be a brutal but firm reign.
Who's with us?
pathdawg said:
Im curious whether a government could be taken over merely by internet postings...
the way I see it, there is only one element that matters: those with guns. given the fantastic success of the gun control lobby limiting personal armament, we are talking about 2 segments of society: law enforcement and the military. Then, given the number of reservists in law enforcement, these are less separate than at first glance. See, ever sense the Vietnam War and the end of conscription, the military as a subculture has been become more and more distant from the remainder of the population. This provides an avenue, for a entreprenurial group of lads to "invoke" change. Che called this political method a sowing of discontent about one's conditions. All that is required is the truthful commitment that once the "Confederacy" is established the military will enjoy pay raises, better work conditions and far less foreign deployment. Even better yet, you could use the already built-in national divisions created by the lingering effects of the first civil war to achieve this ends as some popular support is required for victory (eloquently outlined by Che, Mao, Tito and as well as some less known right-wingers).
As my first vice-president of the 2nd Confederacy, Pathdawg will be tasked with the re-establisment of the glory of Pathology, not only as a medical discpline but as a spiritual and religious entity. Why be a surgical pathologist, when we can be high priests?
*This in no way constitutes an Act of Sedition as outlined by the Sedition Act of either 1798 or 1918 (though both were repealed), and merely represents my freedom of written expression secured by the Bill of Rights.
And yes, Coldplay is somewhat gay but I also tend to collect 200 dollar Kenneth Cole shoes and 175 buck Hugo Boss button down shirts as well as a penchant for doggy-style so Im also grappling with gayness in other aspects of my life. I may need to see a mental health professional, Im not sure. I hope everyone will be supportive as I make it through this artistic rough spot...I have added Metallica to my ipod and will be using that as therapy for the time being.
[/QUOTE]
There is nothing wrong with doggy style, its probably one of the best moves and there is nothing gay about it as long as your not doing some dude
There is nothing wrong with doggy style, its probably one of the best moves and there is nothing gay about it as long as your not doing some dude
Brendan Graham said:
AFIP was once arguably one the greatest path institution in the world. Unfortunately, today it is a mere shadow of its former glorious self. Don't know specifically why it happened, but they have lost the vast majority of their major personalities, and they're basically in shambles now. Sad, really.
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