Surgeons and Smoking

[kingkenny]

I've just wondered what the percentage is of smokers amogst Surgeons right from Interns upto the Chief. In my hospital, i've seen that almost every Medicine guy smokes but there are hardly any surgeons who do. They say they try to be health conscious and they need to be in order to cope with the long hours and the long OR's.How is it like in your hospital?

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[SFO-IST]

Ewww smoking is gross.

 

[JackADeli]

I've just wondered what the percentage is of smokers amogst Surgeons right from Interns upto the Chief. In my hospital, i've seen that almost every Medicine guy smokes but there are hardly any surgeons who do. They say they try to be health conscious and they need to be in order to cope with the long hours and the long OR's.How is it like in your hospital?

I don't know, all the hospitals I have been in, some physicians smoked. But, it seemed those at the nursing level had a larger amount of smoking. I never saw a preponderence of smoking physicians being IM. I knew some, but they were not the larger share.

I have seen plenty of surgeon smokers from ortho, general, cardiothoracic, etc... I even had an orthopedic surgeon that was on some mission to apparently prove that smoking didn't cause cancer. He preached to patients and med-students alike....

 

[Winged Scapula]

I could not quote a percentage. But like JAD, I have found, by far, the greatest number of smokers comes from allied health professionals - nurses and perhaps even more galling, respiratory therapists.

I cannot say I've noticed a larger number of internists smoking and cannot think of any of my attendings who smoked, although I knew a couple of surgical residents who did. It may be cultural as smoking is much more prevalent outside of the US; if you are training in a place which has a large number of foreign born IM physicians, perhaps you might interpret that as being representative of the field.

NB: I recall that the OP is training outside of the US - I think you will find that the number of smokers in the US is *far* less than it is in India.

Besides, what busy surgeon has time to smoke since you now have to leave campus/hospital grounds to do so? I can barely get paperwork done between cases let alone eat or do personal stuff.

 

[JackADeli]

...what busy surgeon has time to smoke since you now have to leave campus/hospital grounds to do so? I can barely get paperwork done between cases let alone eat or do personal stuff.

I must agree. A significant nicotine requirement would definately crimp on my ability to practice at a signicant level/volume.

 

[SLUser11]

I've just wondered what the percentage is of smokers amogst Surgeons right from Interns upto the Chief. In my hospital, i've seen that almost every Medicine guy smokes but there are hardly any surgeons who do. They say they try to be health conscious and they need to be in order to cope with the long hours and the long OR's.How is it like in your hospital?

My anecdotal experience is that smoking is more common among doctors in the Northeast. I'd be interested to hear some perspective from people training in that area.

In the midwest, surgeon smoking is rare and relatively in the closet.

Other countries that I've noticed with a lot of smoking doctors include Japan and England....this is also very anecdotal, and based on people I met during my training....but at the ACS meeting in DC, there did seem to be a lot of Asian docs outside the convention center smoking....

 

[kingkenny]

I agree with Winged Scapula in that smoking is a lot more common in India. I've had attendings who smoke before and after each OR and in between as well. And most of that in the Hospital campus!!

 

[SFO-IST]

I also second the observation that smoking is more common amongst IMG's and physicians practicing abroad. You can attribute it to stress or whatever cultural factors you want, it's an inexcusable practice amongst people who allegedly take an oath to do no harm and practice evidence based medicine. I've been in foreign hospitals where almost all the physicians smoke inside the wards. It's a disgusting practice on several levels.

 

[dinoprost]

while smoking may indeed continue to be not only an onerous burden, as you have to physically leave the hospital premises and walk across the street to do so, but also a stinky habit, smokeless tobacco is a delicious and smell-free way to enjoy all the benefits of nicotine. When combined with caffeine, a nice fat lip provides crucial neuron-activation for pouring over your Schwartzs or your ABSITE Review. Often, each intern would purchase a different delectable flavor, and the banquet of wintergreen, spearmint, vanilla, and apple-scented collected intern sputum would fill the office with wonderful aromas.

PLUS if you pour a shot of jack daniel's into a tin of copenhagen...wow! No sugary calories for me thank you very much!

 

[LucidSplash]

I will say that, moving south for residency, I was surprised by the specific directive in our department manual which dictated "It is never appropriate to carry a spit-cup on rounds."

I was not prepared for the prevalence of using chewing tobacco here in the south, even among residents.

Then again, the manual also specifically requires that we wear socks. Supposedly this was added for an attending when he was a resident here. He ignored the rule then and now.

 

[dienekes88]

My anecdotal experience is that smoking is more common among doctors in the Northeast. I'd be interested to hear some perspective from people training in that area.

In the midwest, surgeon smoking is rare and relatively in the closet.

Other countries that I've noticed with a lot of smoking doctors include Japan and England....this is also very anecdotal, and based on people I met during my training....but at the ACS meeting in DC, there did seem to be a lot of Asian docs outside the convention center smoking....

I've only ever been in the Northeast, so I can't provide too much context. In my limited experience, the people I most commonly see smoking are allied health and research scientists (usually from Europe or Asia). Oh... and some of my classmates. I can't say that I've ever seen an attending or resident smoke or even walked by one who smelled of smoke...

 

[dienekes88]

I will say that, moving south for residency, I was surprised by the specific directive in our department manual which dictated "It is never appropriate to carry a spit-cup on rounds."

I was not prepared for the prevalence of using chewing tobacco here in the south, even among residents.

Then again, the manual also specifically requires that we wear socks. Supposedly this was added for an attending when he was a resident here. He ignored the rule then and now.

That is foul.

I have friends who chew tobacco. Kodiak? Is that the one with the highest fiberglass to tobacco ratio? [facepalm]

 

[ESU_MD]

We have all heard stories of the old days when the smoke in the surgeons lounge would be knee high. Or the guys who would smoke while svrubbing into a lobectomy for lung cancer.

Actually, quite afew hospitals dont allow the employees to smoke anywhere on campus. Everyone threatens to smoke in the cars, but only a few actually are that commited. Smoking seems more of a taboo these days and most smokers seem ashamed.

Although, i have to admit i am somewhat fascinated by the diehard oldtimer surgeons chain smoking between cases. Literally last of a dying breed

 

[BoyInTheBubble]

Although, i have to admit i am somewhat fascinated by the diehard oldtimer surgeons chain smoking between cases. Literally last of a dying breed

"I'm heading to the chest clinic", my attending would say as he walked outside for a smoke. And, "ohhh urology needs a sample" when going to the pisser. Funny guy.

 

[MossPoh]

We have all heard stories of the old days when the smoke in the surgeons lounge would be knee high. Or the guys who would smoke while svrubbing into a lobectomy for lung cancer.

Actually, quite afew hospitals dont allow the employees to smoke anywhere on campus. Everyone threatens to smoke in the cars, but only a few actually are that commited. Smoking seems more of a taboo these days and most smokers seem ashamed.

Although, i have to admit i am somewhat fascinated by the diehard oldtimer surgeons chain smoking between cases. Literally last of a dying breed

My dad used to smoke a pipe in the hospital all the time. He talked about how all the guys would fire up cigars during lectures and all the techs/nurses would just sit around smoking cigs during any slow point in their shift.

I don't even think smoking was banned in hospitals till the early 90s was it? It was at least the 80s for sure.

 

[Smurfette]

Some of the 'old school' nurses on the surgery floor once told me about how back in the '80s, the surgeons would leave their cigars on some of the moulding outside of patient rooms while they rounded. They knew what rooms they were in by where the cigar was along the hallway...

I've known a few surgery residents who smoke. Most were only occasional smokers (i.e. when out at the bars), but we had a couple who used to take smoke breaks if things were slow on call....

 

[kirurg]

I've also known quite a few surgical residents and attendings who smoke regularly. They smoke just outside of the hospital. One of the surg onc attendings smells like an ash tray as he rounds on his cancer patients. I think this is a horrible example, but not for me to judge.

One thing that used to make me mad was my chief who wouldn't let me eat because we were "too busy"... but he would go outside every hour or so for a ten minute smoke break.

 

[SLUser11]

I've also known quite a few surgical residents and attendings who smoke regularly. They smoke just outside of the hospital. One of the surg onc attendings smells like an ash tray as he rounds on his cancer patients. I think this is a horrible example, but not for me to judge.

One thing that used to make me mad was my chief who wouldn't let me eat because we were "too busy"... but he would go outside every hour or so for a ten minute smoke break.

Your chief shows horrible management skills. I'm sorry.

Where are you training? What area of the country?

 

[dienekes88]

Your chief shows horrible management skills. I'm sorry.

Where are you training? What area of the country?

Location says NYC.

We have all heard stories of the old days when the smoke in the surgeons lounge would be knee high. Or the guys who would smoke while svrubbing into a lobectomy for lung cancer.

Actually, quite afew hospitals dont allow the employees to smoke anywhere on campus. Everyone threatens to smoke in the cars, but only a few actually are that commited. Smoking seems more of a taboo these days and most smokers seem ashamed.

Although, i have to admit i am somewhat fascinated by the diehard oldtimer surgeons chain smoking between cases. Literally last of a dying breed

If I recall correctly, the Cleveland Clinic installed a high-tech ventilation system in the office of one of their star surgeons when he refused to quit. Maybe they didn't want him to lose a finger trying to smoke outside in the Cleveland winter?

 

[ESU_MD]

Location says NYC.



If I recall correctly, the Cleveland Clinic installed a high-tech ventilation system in the office of one of their star surgeons when he refused to quit. Maybe they didn't want him to lose a finger trying to smoke outside in the Cleveland winter?

now thats hardcore

 

[ESU_MD]

Location says NYC.



If I recall correctly, the Cleveland Clinic installed a high-tech ventilation system in the office of one of their star surgeons when he refused to quit. Maybe they didn't want him to lose a finger trying to smoke outside in the Cleveland winter?

in my hospital, the "star" guy just smoked in his office and everyone just made pretend they didnt smell anything

 

[kirurg]

Your chief shows horrible management skills. I'm sorry.

Where are you training? What area of the country?

Northeast. He wasn't the best chief, lol. It was kind of nice to have free run in the ICU as an intern... at least until the attendings came back for afternoon rounds😉.

 

[45408]

One of my senior residents smokes out in his car several times a day.

Like someone else noted, it's mostly nurses and aides that smoke up a storm. I don't know how nurses are so cavalier about their own health. They clearly know better. We have more than a few nurses who are morbidly obese as well. Some of my attendings need to drop a few pounds but nothing that extreme.

 

[SLUser11]

Northeast. He wasn't the best chief, lol.

I wonder if his poor leadership skills benefitted you indirectly and your now-junior residents directly, as I'm sure you are a better leader because of it.

I personally always find time to eat...and I make sure my team does as well....probably because I remember how much it sucked to be a hungry, tired student going through the motions on a million low-yield tasks.

Anyway, I know you're training in the Northeast....I was trying to get a "see I told you so" jab in regarding the smoking.

 

[Buzz Me]

In all my years here I've never seen a physician outside in the "smoking area," though I have seen all kinds of other hospital employees...nurses, RTs, techs, etc.

Or maybe this means physicians just have better places to hide during their smoke breaks.

 

[kingkenny]

I'd agree with Buzz me. Doctors always find the perfect spot to smoke without being spotted.

 

[45408]

I'd agree with Buzz me. Doctors always find the perfect spot to smoke without being spotted.

Now that you mention it, one ER doc told me about the hiding spot a former resident used to use that was invisible to nearly everyone, except the ER doc who pulled into the turnaround periodically when he was just grabbing something from his office (can't park there, and it's an unused loading dock).

 

[bco001]

I guarantee you that there are zero doctors walking across the street and smoking off campus. They are all smoking in offices, roof tops, and other hiding spots. I still think its cool.

 

[BlondeDocteur]

If I recall correctly, the Cleveland Clinic installed a high-tech ventilation system in the office of one of their star surgeons when he refused to quit. Maybe they didn't want him to lose a finger trying to smoke outside in the Cleveland winter?

I read that book too. 🙂

I think smoking, like obesity, is very much linked to social class in this country. In most circles in which most doctors move, it's unacceptable to be either overweight or a smoker. Hence a perfect little stratification effect in the hospital as you move from doctors to allied health practitioners (PAs, NPs, PTs) to nurses to techs to housekeeping/food services.

 

[MrBigLips]

Ewww smoking is gross.

👍

I think smoking, like obesity, is very much linked to social class in this country. In most circles in which most doctors move, it's unacceptable to be either overweight or a smoker. Hence a perfect little stratification effect in the hospital as you move from doctors to allied health practitioners (PAs, NPs, PTs) to nurses to techs to housekeeping/food services.

very interesting point to which i must say... true dat

 

[MossPoh]

I read that book too. 🙂

I think smoking, like obesity, is very much linked to social class in this country. In most circles in which most doctors move, it's unacceptable to be either overweight or a smoker. Hence a perfect little stratification effect in the hospital as you move from doctors to allied health practitioners (PAs, NPs, PTs) to nurses to techs to housekeeping/food services.

Depends somewhat on generation as well. Many of the old docs grew up in an era where they smoked while working. My dad talked about how the bigshot in his program smoked a cigar, so sure enough everyone was sitting there smoking cigars in the hospital by the end of the day. (This was in the late 60s)