Surgery Before Medicine Shelf. Help!

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Kashue

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Hey Guys,


Unfortunately, I got unlucky in the lottery and have Surgery before Medicine. My rotation order is: OB/Gyn --> Peds --> Psych --> Family Medicine --> Surgery --> Medicine.

I also have 2.5 week prior to starting my surgery rotation. Any advice in general for doing well on the shelf exam? Suggestions for doing some reading during my 2.5 weeks off to prepare? Thanks!
 
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How exactly did you get screwed?? First, despite what you hear on SDN, there is no real tactical advantage to having medicine before surgery before the shelf. I actually really dislike it when people say that the "surgery shelf is the medicine shelf in disguise" because its not. I'd phrase it as the "medical management of the surgical patient". I had surgery as my very first rotation, 6 months before medicine, and my shelf grade wasnt hurt at all by it. Your ability to read on your patients, work hard, and really just use a couple of common shelf review sources are better determinants of how youll do rather than having medicine first.

Actually, unless you want to be a surgeon, its better to have medicine later since youll know how to be a better clerk by then, and will be more likely to shine. Your schedule is pretty much fine.

Simply put, you dont get chest pain and syncope on the surgery shelf, just as you dont get cholecystitis or ischemic bowel on the medicine shelf. Thats how mine was, I suspect its the same for everyone else too.

What to read? I mean if youre REALLY motivated, do some case files cases or get Lawrence essentials of surgery (i enjoyed this textbook actually). I would suggest just staring at a wall and enjoying the fact that your life is yours for the next 2.5 weeks, cause once 3rd year starts, you dont get it back for any significant stretch until 4th year...kind of...
 
How exactly did you get screwed?? First, despite what you hear on SDN, there is no real tactical advantage to having medicine before surgery before the shelf. I actually really dislike it when people say that the "surgery shelf is the medicine shelf in disguise" because its not. I'd phrase it as the "medical management of the surgical patient". I had surgery as my very first rotation, 6 months before medicine, and my shelf grade wasnt hurt at all by it. Your ability to read on your patients, work hard, and really just use a couple of common shelf review sources are better determinants of how youll do rather than having medicine first.

Actually, unless you want to be a surgeon, its better to have medicine later since youll know how to be a better clerk by then, and will be more likely to shine. Your schedule is pretty much fine.

Simply put, you dont get chest pain and syncope on the surgery shelf, just as you dont get cholecystitis or ischemic bowel on the medicine shelf. Thats how mine was, I suspect its the same for everyone else too.

What to read? I mean if youre REALLY motivated, do some case files cases or get Lawrence essentials of surgery (i enjoyed this textbook actually). I would suggest just staring at a wall and enjoying the fact that your life is yours for the next 2.5 weeks, cause once 3rd year starts, you dont get it back for any significant stretch until 4th year...kind of...

Agreed. It's way overblown. I had surgery first and found all the information I needed in NMS casebook or Pestana review. It's not like the answers to the surgery shelf are in step up to medicine. Maybe a question here or there would be easier to answer if you know medicine well, but you definitely don't "need" any particular clerkship prior to surgery to score very well on the shelf.
 
First, on this "the surgery shelf is medicine" thing. I agree with the above posts. And furthermore let me state, the surgery shelf is not nearly as hard as the medicine shelf. The medicine shelf is a bear -- a bear that will most likely eat you. And you will love every second of it. Because you love medicine. You are going to love getting a 50th percentile score on the medicine shelf and still being the smartest person in the observable universe, still destined to become the greatest doctor since Osler.

The surgery shelf is just a little jackal. It can certainly take a piece out of your leg, and it is a nasty little beast, but you can outsmart a jackal. Just keep it at a distance with a sturdy piece of hickory. And even if it gets its teeth on you, just whack it harder.. or something.

But if you don't know how to approach a jackal, a jackal will take you out. And not really think much of it.

To recap:

Medicine shelf. A bear you cannot outsmart -- a beast of boundless power and bloodlust, whose jaws you cannot loose, whose hunger you cannot abate, whose bloodmeal you will provide with honor.

Surgery shelf. A little jackal with big jaws. A relentless little chap, outsmartable, easily whacked with a properly balanced hickory stick. Yet if unprepared to face the jackal, the proud man is torn apart. Without honor.

***

It's really quite simple. Get yourself a Lawrence. Not because you're going to read the whole thing necessarily, but because if it's not in there, you definitely don't need to know it. Then read the first chapter of Lawrence and for GOD'S SAKE, DO WHAT IT SAYS. Mainly set up a reading schedule and FOLLOW IT. And the stuff it says to do on the wards, DO THAT STUFF.

You know what else? That FA for the Surgery Clerkship book don't look half bad neither. Didn't have it myself, but in retrospect, kinda wish't I had't.

It probably don't matter which one you pick. S'long as you pick one and R.E.A.D. I.T.

It's all algorithms. Learn them.

Let the healing begin!
 
First, on this "the surgery shelf is medicine" thing. I agree with the above posts. And furthermore let me state, the surgery shelf is not nearly as hard as the medicine shelf. The medicine shelf is a bear -- a bear that will most likely eat you. And you will love every second of it. Because you love medicine. You are going to love getting a 50th percentile score on the medicine shelf and still being the smartest person in the observable universe, still destined to become the greatest doctor since Osler.

The surgery shelf is just a little jackal. It can certainly take a piece out of your leg, and it is a nasty little beast, but you can outsmart a jackal. Just keep it at a distance with a sturdy piece of hickory. And even if it gets its teeth on you, just whack it harder.. or something.

But if you don't know how to approach a jackal, a jackal will take you out. And not really think much of it.

To recap:

Medicine shelf. A bear you cannot outsmart -- a beast of boundless power and bloodlust, whose jaws you cannot loose, whose hunger you cannot abate, whose bloodmeal you will provide with honor.

Surgery shelf. A little jackal with big jaws. A relentless little chap, outsmartable, easily whacked with a properly balanced hickory stick. Yet if unprepared to face the jackal, the proud man is torn apart. Without honor.

***

It's really quite simple. Get yourself a Lawrence. Not because you're going to read the whole thing necessarily, but because if it's not in there, you definitely don't need to know it. Then read the first chapter of Lawrence and for GOD'S SAKE, DO WHAT IT SAYS. Mainly set up a reading schedule and FOLLOW IT. And the stuff it says to do on the wards, DO THAT STUFF.

You know what else? That FA for the Surgery Clerkship book don't look half bad neither. Didn't have it myself, but in retrospect, kinda wish't I had't.

It probably don't matter which one you pick. S'long as you pick one and R.E.A.D. I.T.

It's all algorithms. Learn them.

Let the healing begin!

I can't say I agree with everything in there, but it was so beautiful to read, I can't argue :laugh:
 
If you don't have medicine, there are inevitably going to be some questions you won't have the proper mindset for. But it isn't that many. I can think of 2-3 questions on the surg shelf I took last week that I think having medicine first got me. But that's it, really.
 
Hey Guys,


Unfortunately, I got unlucky in the lottery and have Surgery before Medicine. My rotation order is: OB/Gyn --> Peds --> Psych --> Family Medicine --> Surgery --> Medicine.

I also have 2.5 week prior to starting my surgery rotation. Any advice in general for doing well on the shelf exam? Suggestions for doing some reading during my 2.5 weeks off to prepare? Thanks!

The surgery and (especially) medical shelf exams encompass all the other specialties. By the time medicine comes around there will be little they can ask you that you haven't been exposed to. So if you're interested in IM or a sub-specialty of IM you're actually lucky, because it's likely to be your highest shelf score.
 
Just follow the advice posted above and you should be fine. Case Files is really helpful. Pretest was a bit more detailed than the actual exam. Surgical Recall is good for wards, but not necessarily helpful for boards since. Many of the questions on the exam are management questions.
 
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