Surgery experts : GS Sub-I

[surglover]

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I had the chance to talk to GS program director of a great GS program ( top 15-20) about my chance. He told me it is very difficult for me to match there.
I have the chance to do GS Sub-I there. Do you suggest to go there ? or to do the SubI at another program (less competitive than that) ? Or to go there -even that I don't have the chance to match there- to get a LOR since the institution name is very good ?

Or if you have any other suggestion

 

[Picchu127]

Whats the reason it's difficult to match there?

Did you ask the PD if doing a subI and really busting your butt would change that decision? Doing an audition subI might help your chances.

Personally, if I didnt think I was going to be competitive, I'd try to do a subI month at a program where I was competitive and I wanted to go. That way you really show that program you want to be there and will have a letter from them. I wouldnt do it just for the letter if you arent competitive for the program.

just my $0.02

 

[surglover]

Thanks for your input. It is difficult to match there because I went to medical school outside the country. He told me that I need to do subI at his institution (ranked 15-20) or at any other medical school in the country in order to gain experience & lors to get a prelim spot! & even with the prelim spot it is not guaranteed to get a categorical spot there even after 2 years.
I got the acceptance for Sub-I at another institution (ranked 25-30) too. It is less competitive than the previous program but I noticed that require at least one year of US clinical experience (may be they meant prelim year(s)) to match there for categorical GS. They don't have prelim surgery spots!

I am really frustrated & confused now...I am sure that one SubI will not get me a categorical GS spot & I need to strengthen my profile with many things...but where to do that SubI ? to go for the more competitive institution & people there will know me & may be I get a prelim spot that would help me to get Categorical spot at that program or at another institution /or at least a good letter with that institution letter head could help me to match in less competitive programs?

Or to go to the less competitive program & the people there will know me..Although they request at least one year of US experience, may be I get a prelim spot outside their institution (since they don't have prelim Surgery) & meet that requirement & then get GS spot ?

Your inputs please!

 

[Buzz Me]

Do you have other away rotations set up already (as backups)?

 

[surglover]

Do you have other away rotations set up already (as backups)?

Do you mean other GS SubIs or SubIs in other specialties as backups ? I already did IM away rotation at the same hospital where I had the chance to talk with the program director.

 

[Buzz Me]

I meant other surgery sub-Is. At less competitive programs. If not, it might be a little late for this season - usually take months to set up.

 

[surglover]

What about doing Vascular Surgery or Oncologic Surgery rotations & cancel GS SubI since people who are in charge of GS Residency -at institutions I am interested in- work in those fields (Vascular & Onc. Surg) ?

 

[cpants]

The guy is telling you nicely you won't match there, period. Don't waste your time doing an away rotation there. Your best bet will be to find a place that has accepted foreign grads in the past. Think community hospital. Think rural. Rotate there and do an awesome job. That is your best shot at a categorical spot, which should be your goal.

 

[surglover]

The guy is telling you nicely you won't match there, period. Don't waste your time doing an away rotation there. Your best bet will be to find a place that has accepted foreign grads in the past. Think community hospital. Think rural. Rotate there and do an awesome job. That is your best shot at a categorical spot, which should be your goal.

Cpants, thanks for advice.
The PD himself told me that if I wanna Categorical position at his institution, then I need to have a GS SubI preferably at his institution in order to get a Prelim postion first...Then after one or two years may be I have a room!

 

[DHT]

Cpants, thanks for advice.
The PD himself told me that if I wanna Categorical position at his institution, then I need to have a GS SubI preferably at his institution in order to get a Prelim postion first...Then after one or two years may be I have a room!

Don't waste your time there. Do what other people said, find community hospitals in undesirable areas. I think that is your only real chance as an IMG/FMG to match categorical general surgery.

 

[Buzz Me]

Cpants, thanks for advice.
The PD himself told me that if I wanna Categorical position at his institution, then I need to have a GS SubI preferably at his institution in order to get a Prelim postion first...Then after one or two years may be I have a room!

Wouldn't it be easier to maximize your chances at a less competitive program, and get a Categorical spot there?

 

[Winged Scapula]

Cpants, thanks for advice.
The PD himself told me that if I wanna Categorical position at his institution, then I need to have a GS SubI preferably at his institution in order to get a Prelim postion first...Then after one or two years may be I have a room!

I think what he/she is doing is trying to let you down easily.

He's not saying that IF you do all those things, you WILL get a position. He's saying that IF you do all those things, you MIGHT have a position. Mostly likely you will not. Unless they have a strong history of taking foreign grads after doing 1-2 Prelim years, you are wasting your time.

Listen to the others above; find a program where your talents will be appreciated and they will give you a real chance. I understand that you are interested in training at the most prestigious program you can but if your goal is to become a surgeon, you should be looking at places where you have a realistic chance.

 

[Buzz Me]

Exactly. He's saying that you would have no chance without a sub-I and Prelim years. He isn't guaranteeing anything, however...likely things wouldn't work out. What's this program's track record of accepting FMG Prelims into the Categorical track?

If only it were that easy for any determined FMG to become a Categorical resident at a top 20 program!

 

[surglover]

Thanks all for inputs. But the program has a history of taking a prelim resident into categorical position...approximately, one position every two years or so.

 

[Winged Scapula]

Thanks all for inputs. But the program has a history of taking a prelim resident into categorical position...approximately, one position every two years or so.

And how many of their NDP *don't* get a position?

 

[45408]

Thanks all for inputs. But the program has a history of taking a prelim resident into categorical position...approximately, one position every two years or so.

are any of them IMGs? or did they all go to a school in the US?

 

[Buzz Me]

And how many of their NDP *don't* get a position?

Good question.

 

[stronghold]

Chance is too slim

 

[surglover]

And how many of their NDP *don't* get a position?

2 of the 3 NDPs don't get a position. I don't know their fate if they succeeded in other programs

are any of them IMGs? or did they all go to a school in the US?

Yes, they are IMGs

Good question.

🙂

Chance is too slim

I know mate! Nothing is easy!

 

[Buzz Me]

I know mate! Nothing is easy!

Some programs are easier to match into than others.

 

[SLUser11]

Thanks all for inputs. But the program has a history of taking a prelim resident into categorical position...approximately, one position every two years or so.

Surglover, don't do it. Listen to all of our collective advice, and spend your time at a more realistic surgery program.

You won't get a spot at this program, so a sub-I will at most get you a LOR, which will ultimately be lukewarm since they don't want you, which will come out in the letter. The buzz phrase we all look for when evaluating LORs is "we want this guy to stay and train at our program."

Do your research and find programs that have a history of routinely taking IMGs, and that doesn't mean one IMG every 3-4 years. If there are away rotations available there, that would be the most intelligent move.

For the record, it's not always (or often) rural community programs that are IMG-friendly. Look at less desirable New York programs as a start. Also, my wonderful home town of Omaha has an IMG-friendly program with a pretty solid surgical education.

Good luck.

ps I've been pushing for a while for the IMG and DO members of our forum to compile a list of IMG-friendly and DO-friendly programs that we could have available. I think we should make it happen.

 

[Buzz Me]

Great advice above!

 

[Doc013]

ps I've been pushing for a while for the IMG and DO members of our forum to compile a list of IMG-friendly and DO-friendly programs that we could have available. I think we should make it happen.

make it happen. im interested in seeing this list as well.