surprised by non-matched programs?

[retroviridae]

Anyone else surprised by the non-matched Categorical IM Prorgams? I mean, Harbor-UCLA, Dartmouth, UT-SW (with 9 unmatched!), UVa?

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[fantasty]

Along those lines, I know that people are bent out of shape on some other threads about people sharing the lists earlier, but I'd love to see the programs that still had spots (for future reference, since I'm not matching for a couple more years). Could someone post the IM programs on here (besides the ones you just mentioned). Perhaps posted after the scramble so nobody gets mad.

Thanks

 

[fantasty]

But, yes - I am pretty surprised. This goes back to a lot of the threads I've been reading on here, but just taking UT-SW for example - it seems like a lot of people considered that a "higher tier" program. On Frieda (just for reference), it says they did 400 interviews for 55 spots. UVA - 300 interviews for 30 spots. Dartmouth - 161 interviews for 23 spots.

Again, though - this might be a function of PD not including enough ranked candidates?

 

[fantasty]

nevermind someone already did post over on gen residency issues

 

[Fermi]

Again, though - this might be a function of PD not including enough ranked candidates?

From what I know about the match, it seems that if a program doesn't fill, it is the program's "fault." Surely they all interview at least 2x the number of applicants as positions they have open. After weeding out the applicants who they feel are unqualified (who probably shouldn't have been interviewed anyway), they should have a long enough rank list. Otherwise they are either too picky/didn't interview enough people (rank list too short), or didn't sell the program well enough so that applicants would rank their program higher.

I'm guessing this means that if an applicant goes unmatched, and one of their ranked programs goes unfilled, then by definition that applicant wasn't even on the unfilled program's rank list, correct?

 

[Furrball]

I'm guessing this means that if an applicant goes unmatched, and one of their ranked programs goes unfilled, then by definition that applicant wasn't even on the unfilled program's rank list, correct?

I think that is correct.

 

[germanIMG]

I still try to understand though how a program like UTSW could end up with 9 unfilled spots.
As mentioned by other posts, it can be assumed that a program will essentially rank anyone that seems remotly capable of being an intern in that institution. So if UTSW has interviewed 500 or so...they will rank 500-x, with x a really small number. Those that applied to a program and go for interview, at least must have some remote interest; after all we all cancelled some interviews.
So how could they end up with 20% unfilled spots? Did anyone interview there? At least on this forum, people were raving about the program.

Anyway, seems that some guys will get lucky in the scramble

 

[Furrball]

I didn't apply to UTSW, but obviously 500 people liked other programs better, ranked and matched at those programs. I think people forget the the Match is as much about as the medical students interviewing the programs as the programs interviewing us.

 

[Hoosierdaddy]

I ranked UTSW number one, so I don't know whether to be happy that I likely matched at my top spot or apprehensive that my probable future residency program was unable to fill 9 of their spots. I mean, is there something horribly wrong with the program that I missed? It seems like the program has somewhat of a malignant reputation, but I got the impression that the clinical training there was somewhere in the top 10 in the country (and likely among the top 5 non-coastal programs). Other thoughts?

 

[Stryke]

i interviewed there, and don't think they did a terribly good job of selling their program. Also, the faculty there seemed to think they could get their pick of the best students (my interviewer told me so). This leads me to believe that they probably didn't rank everyone.

 

[hemoglobin]

I was also surprised to see that all of the 6 prelim. positions at UTSW went unfilled!!!

 

[dochuffman]

I interviewed at UTSW and was really impressed. Just because they didn't fill does not make them any less of a program. They are top tier. I am very suprised that they did not fill and have 9 slots open. I mean people are getting cards fellowships at Duke out of there! I am not sure what happened, maybe they got to confident and ranked to few people? I can not think of any other explanation. Correct me if I am wrong but didn't this happen to WashU in the recent past. UVa is great too. One thing is for certain, there will be some lucky people in the match. I wonder if they will take alot of high score people who didn't match into things like rads, derm etc?

 

[golytlely]

It isn't so much a knock on UTSW and Harbor , or Dartmouth as it is a function of the new computerized system. The same 500 strong applicants are applying to the "top tier" programs, it is as easy as the click of a button on your ERAS. Therefore programs are probably not ranking enough of their interviewees. For example UCSD interviews approx 500, and only ranks 200, I am sure there are similar numbers for UTSW and UCLA-Harbor. What it could also mean is there is something happening on the down low- like people from own institutions are going outside match(unlikely). Look at Wash U, they, and Vandy went unmatched last year.

They are still great programs, and will continue to put out good subspecialists and specialists.

Good luck you guys, anyone lands UCSD give me an email.
I occasionally check this website while I am bored on call(not very often)
but thought it would be interesting to see about this years match.

peace and love

 

[dochuffman]

Saw the list, I think it is true...crazy.

 

[retroviridae]

I'm looking at the list (pdf format) right now. UTSW had 54 spots available, and filled only 45. When I log onto NRMP, it is gone, as is UVa. I think they remove programs from the list as they fill up (so as not to be harassed during the scramble). So that must mean they filled their spots. They wouldn't last too long in the scramble period anyway.

I think they must have just been too picky with their rank list. No doubt, UT-SW is an excellent program.

 

[doc05]

the thing with SW is that (1) they probably didn't rank many people (a matter of the PD's ego; (2) undesirable location for some applicants; (3) being at a county hospital has its downsides.

 

[germanIMG]

did not want to insinuate that UTSW is a weak program, and as pointed out, other reputable programs have not filled in the past. However, 9 spots is a lot and as Hemoglobin pointed out, not a single preliminary match...
kind of indicates, that they either
1. really were so extremly picky with their list, which makes no sense... knowing that some of their candidates have interviewed at other competitive programs, this would be like the applicant who only ranks BWH, MGH and JHU and goes unmatched...that certainly would be considered idiotic.
2. or they did a tremendously bad job in selling their program. In any case, this looks like a drastic mistake by the PD of this program.

They will now scramble for a total of 15 spots out of their 60 first year spots.
25% of their first year class.

 

[retroviridae]

doc05 is right. Dallas is not the best city (but really not that bad), and there are downsides to the program. 1) it is a very large program (hence you don't really know everyone in the program) 2) it is solely a large community hospital with all the problems that go along with that.

But, I am still surprised ... you are right, that PD will be hating life right now. Look for more interviews there next year ... or a better sales pitch

 

[nymed32]

could someone please post the link to where we can find unmatched programs?

Thanks

 

[UptownDoc]

could someone please post the link to where we can find unmatched programs?

Thanks

Someone posted it in the General Residency forum, but here is a link:

http://www.imgresidency.com/txtlist.txt

 

[irlandesa]

I'm not too surprised that Dartmouth and UVa didn't fill, both are excellent programs, but I think they suffer a bit b/c of their locations (esp. Dartmouth). Both are in beautiful areas (believe me, I would have LOVED to have gone to UVa for undergrad or med school), but these are not good places to be if you're single; esp. DHMC as there are not nearly as many grad students and a much smaller undergrad campus than UVa. As one who interviewed at Dartmouth, I really liked that the residents are academically outstanding and very outdoorsy, but the whole anti-urban attitude bumped them down my rank list (and I am not a spectacular applicant to put it mildly). Kind of wish I'd applied to UVa, have heard wonderful things about that program, just thought I didn't have a chance.. ah, cest la vie.

 

[swedcrip]

I was also surprised to see that all of the 6 prelim. positions at UTSW went unfilled!!!

But notice that they didn't put their phone # next to their unmatched prelim spots. They still haven't matched anyone now (by NRMP). I'm not sure they want prelims.

 

[retroviridae]

I'm not too surprised that Dartmouth and UVa didn't fill, both are excellent programs, but I think they suffer a bit b/c of their locations (esp. Dartmouth). Both are in beautiful areas (believe me, I would have LOVED to have gone to UVa for undergrad or med school), but these are not good places to be if you're single; esp. DHMC as there are not nearly as many grad students and a much smaller undergrad campus than UVa. As one who interviewed at Dartmouth, I really liked that the residents are academically outstanding and very outdoorsy, but the whole anti-urban attitude bumped them down my rank list (and I am not a spectacular applicant to put it mildly). Kind of wish I'd applied to UVa, have heard wonderful things about that program, just thought I didn't have a chance.. ah, cest la vie.

Hey, I did my undergrad at UVa ... plenty of daing going on
And large grad school if you don't like robbing the craddle.

Interestingly, the strongest program in the state (UVa) and the middle program in the state (MCV) didn't fill. But the 2 "weakest" programs in the state, EVMS and Carillon in Roanoke did fill. Hmm ......

 

[bof]

i think that overall IM programs matched very well this year. i am slightly suprised by a few of the programs mentioned not filling but it does seem that applicants are applying to more programs and that these programs are competing for the same limited number of applicants. i guess that every year there are going to be some unlucky programs (Harbor-UCLA, UVa, Dartmouth, etc.) that don't fill. I wouldn't try to read too much into it. Most of these top programs missed filling by just 1 spot.

UTSW, that is another story. Someone must of really messed up the rank list/interview selection to of have 9 unfilled categorical spots. I am sure that it is a quality program nontheless.

 

[vyness]

I was also surprised to see that all of the 6 prelim. positions at UTSW went unfilled!!!

I agree that the PD was probably being too picky. I applied there for the prelim IM for my radiology intern year. They sent me a rejection for the prelim spot weeks before I even heard from the radiology department. If that many spots were unfilled, then it's a problem with their interview/ranking process and ego.

 

[swedcrip]

I agree that the PD was probably being too picky. I applied there for the prelim IM for my radiology intern year. They sent me a rejection for the prelim spot weeks before I even heard from the radiology department. If that many spots were unfilled, then it's a problem with their interview/ranking process and ego.

I matched there during early match but still the prelim program said they weren't interested after my PD called. And I have fairly average stats for a US senior. But from what I've gathered about their call schedule and workload I decided to pursue somewhere else anyways.

The 6 spots are now off NRMP but I'm not sure they filled them or just pulled them unfilled. I guess we'll know in a week or so when the full match results are released.

 

[dkwyler94]

Now, is it wrong if I glote a little of all the programs that rejected me for an interview that didn't fill? I applied to way too many programs (about 50) as I am a DO student and, even though I had good letters, and boards scores and everything, wasn't sure how much it would hurt me. I got many good interview offers and everything, but I got rejections from Dartmouth, University of Nevada-rent, UCLA Harborview, a couple of Texas programs on the list.

So all I can say is.

 

[UTSouthwestern]

doc05 is right. Dallas is not the best city (but really not that bad), and there are downsides to the program. 1) it is a very large program (hence you don't really know everyone in the program) 2) it is solely a large community hospital with all the problems that go along with that.

But, I am still surprised ... you are right, that PD will be hating life right now. Look for more interviews there next year ... or a better sales pitch

Obviously I'm biased, but I think Dallas is a great city especially with the growth going all around it. There's a new hospital opening up almost every month. UTSW is a large community program but also owns two private hospitals for private practice feel.

Part of the reason we did not match all the spots was that, yes, we didn't rank a lot of people (probably 250 out of 500 interviews), but the PD feels that there are always a lot of great students that are left to scramble after not placing in more competitive fields (Derm, Rads, etc.) and those students get the majority of the spots.

Regardless, the administration was very happy with the match and picked up some of those nonmatched gems they were looking for.

 

[irlandesa]

Yes, absolutely, much as people are going to dislike that I'm admitting to this, I would totally gloat if BIDMC didn't fill. As for the DHMC rejection, it's just really random; I know DO students that got interviews at Dartmouth and rejected from a number of strong programs, and vice versa. I got an interview from Yale, but never heard either way from UConn about an hour up the road. This whole process doesn't make sense, but I'm just glad to have matched somewhere..

 

[TXMSIV]

Obviously I'm biased, but I think Dallas is a great city especially with the growth going all around it. There's a new hospital opening up almost every month. UTSW is a large community program but also owns two private hospitals for private practice feel.

Part of the reason we did not match all the spots was that, yes, we didn't rank a lot of people (probably 250 out of 500 interviews), but the PD feels that there are always a lot of great students that are left to scramble after not placing in more competitive fields (Derm, Rads, etc.) and those students get the majority of the spots.

Regardless, the administration was very happy with the match and picked up some of those nonmatched gems they were looking for.

I ranked UTSW first and I'm curious to pick your thoughts. I'm a little dismayed and wondering why the program did not fill. Ranking 5 times the available spots seems more than adequate, and certainly comparable to other places I have heard. I think it may reflect the inflexibility of the program regarding early electives and protected research. I know your biases, but I'd be willing to hear your thoughts. I appreciate a positive spin, but am nonetheless troubled to hear that the program did not fill to this extent. THis is more than just a few spots and may be a future red flag. I hope that if they ranked me at all (b/c I guess that means I'll be there) that they will address these issues and do a better job recruiting people.

 

[Fantasy Sports]

Regardless, the administration was very happy with the match and picked up some of those nonmatched gems they were looking for.

Talk about spin city, going unmatched is never a good thing for an IM program, especially one of UTSW stature. Someone messed up. And rather than fixing the problem they say they are looking for "nonmatched gems". Trust me, if there were a ton of nonmatched gems, Mass Gen and Hopkins would be all over it. Its an oxymoron. More likely, the program is going to end up with disgruntled would-be lifestyle specialty seekers filling up those remaining spots. Anyway you look at it, its not good for that one class. It might even be better for UTSW to save those slots and just get a bigger class next year.

 

[scrub monkey]

that's what ucla did a few years ago when they didn't fill.

they toughed it out (no scramblers) and just did a better job selling their program the next year, as well as changing pd's.

 

[Fantasy Sports]

that's what ucla did a few years ago when they didn't fill.

they toughed it out (no scramblers) and just did a better job selling their program the next year, as well as changing pd's.

Yeah, I think thats the best option.

For those attending UTSW next year as a resident, would you rather:

1) Have a smaller class of people who actually want to be at UTSW doing internal medicine (the increase class size to compensate over next 1-2 years)

or

2) Have a normal class of people who couldnt get into derm/rads/plastics/etc.?

Id prefer #1, but that's just me.

 

[swedcrip]

Yeah, I think thats the best option.

For those attending UTSW next year as a resident, would you rather:

1) Have a smaller class of people who actually want to be at UTSW doing internal medicine (the increase class size to compensate over next 1-2 years)

or

2) Have a normal class of people who couldnt get into derm/rads/plastics/etc.?

Id prefer #1, but that's just me.

It was posted in another thread in this forum that UT-Southwestern actually didn't go unfilled but that those 9 spots were filled under the St. Paul name. We'll see if that's true but it's definitely possible since Southwestern this last year just bought that hospital and is starting to move its faculty and residents gradually over there.

 

[bof]

okay, someone is definately lying. one of my classmates scrambled into UTSW, so they definately didn't fill. i don't think that guy/gal would of gotten an interview from them initially so i doubt that they picked up one of those "unmatched gems."

It was posted in another thread in this forum that UT-Southwestern actually didn't go unfilled but that those 9 spots were filled under the St. Paul name. We'll see if that's true but it's definitely possible since Southwestern this last year just bought that hospital and is starting to move its faculty and residents gradually over there.

 

[retroviridae]

you know it really doesn't matter if they "really did fill" (which I doubt) ... it still LOOKS bad (horrible really) to the rest of us not in the know. Time for a new PD!

 

[UTSouthwestern]

Nine St. Paul residents were slated to be absorbed into the Southwestern program, but two decided not to continue with internal medicine. One transferred into the UTSW anesthesiology program and another moved to the west coast. I don't know who the latter person is, but I just met the former one who is rotating on the anesthesiology service at Parkland. Regardless, the medicine department is very happy with their match list and their fellowship placement this year for cards, GI, heme-onc, pulm-cc, and allergy/immunology is going spectacularly well as usual.

For those who think this residency is grueling, guess what: it is! You will work your butt off here, but the difference here is that the teaching is superb, the faculty non-malignant and supportive, and the case variety staggering.

 

[61187]

Nine St. Paul residents were slated to be absorbed into the Southwestern program, but two decided not to continue with internal medicine. One transferred into the UTSW anesthesiology program and another moved to the west coast. I don't know who the latter person is, but I just met the former one who is rotating on the anesthesiology service at Parkland. Regardless, the medicine department is very happy with their match list and their fellowship placement this year for cards, GI, heme-onc, pulm-cc, and allergy/immunology is going spectacularly well as usual.

For those who think this residency is grueling, guess what: it is! You will work your butt off here, but the difference here is that the teaching is superb, the faculty non-malignant and supportive, and the case variety staggering.

I'm going to be one of the new interns at UTSW next year and I'm really pro-UTSW, but I'm not sure I see how this business with the St. Paul's residents fits in with an explanation as to why there were nine open spots in the intern class. The fact that St. Paul's just became part of the UTSW system in this case would seem to have no bearing on open slots in the new intern class, since those residents you speak of (unless I'm misunderstanding) wouldn't be starting as interns again. From what I can gather though, the 45 that did match originally to the categorical program two days ago corresponds to the 45 categoricals in the current intern class, with nine additional categorical slots that might be considered to be the St. Paul contribution to UTSW's categorical intern class size of 54. Why these slots weren't filled officially I don't know. Frankly, I don't care why as long as the people they get to fill those slots bust their asses as much as I'm willing to do mine. I doubt this all will have much effect on fellowships, if any, and I think next year's round of applicants will take this all into account and decide for themselves whether it's worth living in Dallas and working really hard in exchange for being able to say you trained at Parkland.