Other Swapping residency

[ZJz4]

What is the best process?

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[gutonc]

What if you have a prelim surgery year and an advanced position but realized you wanted to switch to IM?

Then you start from the beginning again. You won’t get any credit for your surgery internship. The hardest part of this will be getting time off to interview next year.

 

[gutonc]

But it wouldn't disadvantage you in anyway? You would just lose a year, correct?

I mean, you're never as competitive as you were as a M4 so there's that. But if you're asking if you'll be able to find a spot, the answer is most likely yes.

 

[gutonc]

Of course thank you. Just curious, does it make a significant impact? Like if you were an applicant who could match a solid university based program, you would be able to switch into one with open seats or reapply into it?

Maybe. Only one way to find out.

 

[Redpancreas]

Hey guys quick question. Can you swap residencies in your prelim year? As an example, if you are doing rads and surg prelim and want to swap to IM, is it possible?
What is the best process?

Each case is different. To answer your example, yes you can do that but you would have to apply for IM categorical during your surgery prelim year and you will be starting as an IM PGY-1. Focus on what you want to be doing for the next 30 years, not what you want to do be doing for the next 5.

 

[Redpancreas]

Okay thank you. Would you have to reapply or could you swap?

You would have to reapply this upcoming cycle and start IM PGY-1 in July 2022. You can not swap with a current nearly done IM PGY-1 because your credits won't swap. You can try to swap with someone who just matched, but I highly doubt it's going to work. You have an advanced DR position to offer (PGY-2) but you can't swap with a current IM PGY-1 due to credit issue and can't swap with a recently matched IM categorical because why would they want a advanced rads position (and even if they do, they're not eligible for it this year).

 

[Redpancreas]

Of course I Definitely am. How would one get letters of recommendation in that scenario?

You would ask to do anything you can that's IM-related in prelim surgery or reach out to anyone you remember from your medicine rotation in medical school. You could also elect to reapply with your current letters (ERAS letters from your previous app cycle stay uploaded) and just say you didn't have any other letters. One of your letters will have to be from your current prelim PD speaking to the fact that you were a good resident.

 

[Redpancreas]

How long do the ERAS letters stay uploaded?

At least 3 years but that's not stated policy but from my experience. It may change.

 

[Redpancreas]

Or would I be better of starting my prelim year and speaking to the IM department asking them about transferring spots?

Again you won't be able to transfer from prelim surgery to IM. The training is completely different. You can start/complete your surgery prelim which may be nice because it's clinical experience and pays a salary, but regardless the soonest you can start as an IM PGY-1 is July 2022...unless you choose to forfeit your surgical prelim (and DR position) and scramble into an IM prelim spot for July 2021. If you do that and complete the IM prelim, there is a chance that IM program or another IM program will take you as an IM PGY-2 in July 2022. At the very least you'd be eligible.

 

[ZJz4]

Again you won't be able to transfer from prelim surgery to IM. The training is completely different. You can start/complete your surgery prelim but regardless the soonest you can start as an IM PGY-1 is July 2022...unless you choose to forfeit your surgical prelim (and DR position) and scramble into an IM prelim spot. If you do that, there is a small chance you can do IM PGY-2 in July 2022.

Again you won't be able to transfer from prelim surgery to IM. The training is completely different. You can start/complete your surgery prelim which may be nice because it's clinical experience and pays a salary, but regardless the soonest you can start as an IM PGY-1 is July 2022...unless you choose to forfeit your surgical prelim (and DR position) and scramble into an IM prelim spot for July 2021. If you do that and complete the IM prelim, there is a chance that IM program or another IM program will take you as an IM PGY-2 in July 2022. At the very least you'd be

Again you won't be able to transfer from prelim surgery to IM. The training is completely different. You can start/complete your surgery prelim which may be nice because it's clinical experience and pays a salary, but regardless the soonest you can start as an IM PGY-1 is July 2022...unless you choose to forfeit your surgical prelim (and DR position) and scramble into an IM prelim spot for July 2021. If you do that and complete the IM prelim, there is a chance that IM program or another IM program will take you as an IM PGY-2 in July 2022. At the very least you'd be eligible.

N

eligible.

Again you won't be able to transfer from prelim surgery to IM. The training is completely different. You can start/complete your surgery prelim which may be nice because it's clinical experience and pays a salary, but regardless the soonest you can start as an IM PGY-1 is July 2022...unless you choose to forfeit your surgical prelim (and DR position) and scramble into an IM prelim spot for July 2021. If you do that and complete the IM prelim, there is a chance that IM program or another IM program will take you as an IM PGY-2 in July 2022. At the very least you'd be eligible.

Thank you very much. So essentially I would

Again you won't be able to transfer from prelim surgery to IM. The training is completely different. You can start/complete your surgery prelim which may be nice because it's clinical experience and pays a salary, but regardless the soonest you can start as an IM PGY-1 is July 2022...unless you choose to forfeit your surgical prelim (and DR position) and scramble into an IM prelim spot for July 2021. If you do that and complete the IM prelim, there is a chance that IM program or another IM program will take you as an IM PGY-2 in July 2022. At the very least you'd be eligible.

Thank you for your input.

 

[Redpancreas]

Thank you very much. So essentially I would

Thank you for your input.

You literally had this conversation with a mod yesterday. Some people don't know what they're talking about but most moderators don't go spewing BS. How difficult is it to change specialties from advanced position? | Student Doctor Network

 

[ZJz4]

You literally had this conversation with @gutonc yesterday. Some people don't know what they're talking about but most moderators don't go spewing BS. How difficult is it to change specialties from advanced position? | Student Doctor Network

You literally had this conversation with a mod yesterday. Some people don't know what they're talking about but most moderators don't go spewing BS. How difficult is it to change specialties from advanced position? | Student Doctor Network

Yes I did. I just wanted perspective/confirmation from a 2nd individual is all

 

[ZJz4]

Yes I did. I just wanted perspective/confirmation from a 2nd individual is all

Just as a followup question. I had actually dual applied IM and Rads and chose Rads. If I am going back to IM would the programs I interviewed at virtually likely remember me? Would it be a bad idea to reapply to those programs or not be a "big" issue

 

[Redpancreas]

Just as a followup question. I had actually dual applied IM and Rads and chose Rads. If I am going back to IM would the programs I interviewed at virtually likely remember me? Would it be a bad idea to reapply to those programs or not be a "big" issue

Reapply to all of them and more. You're going to need a broad application. You did nothing wrong but exactly like GutOnc said, you're never as competitive as you were during M4. IM is a big field and between applicant pools, interview cohorts, and actual residents who cycle through every year PDs are not really going to remember an interviewee they ranked. It's not advertised but where you may run into a problem is some programs do things like filter out prior applicants to their program to trim down applications to a managable amount. Programs/websites will always encourage you to apply and take your money but then throw your application in the trash but add it to their denominator they read out to interviewees ("our program has 10,000 applicants so everyone's already made it past the biggest step, etc. everyone sitting in this room we really want to have at our program"). Try to find places you didn't apply to the first time as well as all the places you applied to previously.

If you were between IM/Rads I'm not sure why you didn't rank IM prelims over surgical prelims because an IM prelim counts for rads, but that's in the past. If I were in your position I would first try to get my prelim transitioned somehow. Try to find some desperate surgical-aspirant desparate for your surgical prelim. It may not even be a direct swap. Be careful and do it when it's legal but contacting these unfilled IM prelims and finding a spot could be a first step and then finding someone to offload that prelim on may be easier before you talk with the surgery PD. That way, you atleast get an IM year experience with a chance at getting a PGY-2 at that program in July 2022. Even if you don't you're setting yourself up for success for being an IM resident down the line if that's what you want. Many places in the match will unfortunately still make you do IM from the beginning in the match for a position starting in July 2022.

Also, I refrained from asking about motivation but if you were one of those looking to do IR through Rads and now are thinking of IM->Cards instead just understand you probably won't get many top or uppermidtier places in IM. You may get university but not necessarily the places you interviewed at this time around.

Ultimately I'm sorry this is happening to you. Even though you've done nothing wrong indecision can set you back a bit.

 

[ZJz4]

Reapply to all of them and more. You're going to need to broad application. You did nothing wrong but exactly like GutOnc said, you're never as competitive as you were during M4. IM is a big field and between applicant pools, interview cohorts, and actual residents who cycle through every year PDs are not going to remember an interviewee they ranked. It's not advertised but where you may run into a problem is some programs do things like filter out prior applicants to our program. Programs/websites will always encourage you to apply and take your money but then gladly throw your application in the trash. Try to find places you didn't apply to the first time as well as all the places you applied to previously.

If you were between IM/Rads I'm not sure why you didn't rank IM prelims over surgical prelims because an IM prelim counts for rads, but that's in the past. If I were in your position I would first try to get my prelim transitioned somehow. Try to find some desperate surgical-aspirant desparate for your surgical prelim. It may not even be a direct swap. Be careful and do it when it's legal but contacting these unfilled IM prelims and finding a spot could be a first step and then finding someone to unload that prelim on may be easier. That way, you atleast get an IM year experience with a chance at getting a PGY-2 at that program. Even if you don't you're setting yourself up for success for being an IM resident down the line if that's what you want. Many places in the match will unfortunately still make you do IM from the beginning in the match for a position starting in July 2022.

Thank you. How often do programs filter out prior applications? I applied pretty broadly in both so I am concerned if that would be a Just curious to see if that would 5

Reapply to all of them and more. You're going to need a broad application. You did nothing wrong but exactly like GutOnc said, you're never as competitive as you were during M4. IM is a big field and between applicant pools, interview cohorts, and actual residents who cycle through every year PDs are not really going to remember an interviewee they ranked. It's not advertised but where you may run into a problem is some programs do things like filter out prior applicants to their program to trim down applications to a managable amount. Programs/websites will always encourage you to apply and take your money but then throw your application in the trash and add it to their denominator they read to interview applicants (our program has 10,000 applicants and of that you are one of the lucky 300). Try to find places you didn't apply to the first time as well as all the places you applied to previously.

If you were between IM/Rads I'm not sure why you didn't rank IM prelims over surgical prelims because an IM prelim counts for rads, but that's in the past. If I were in your position I would first try to get my prelim transitioned somehow. Try to find some desperate surgical-aspirant desparate for your surgical prelim. It may not even be a direct swap. Be careful and do it when it's legal but contacting these unfilled IM prelims and finding a spot could be a first step and then finding someone to offload that prelim on may be easier before you talk with the surgery PD. That way, you atleast get an IM year experience with a chance at getting a PGY-2 at that program in July 2022. Even if you don't you're setting yourself up for success for being an IM resident down the line if that's what you want. Many places in the match will unfortunately still make you do IM from the beginning in the match for a position starting in July 2022.

Also, I refrained from asking about motivation but if you were one of those looking to do IR through Rads and now are thinking of IM->Cards instead just understand you probably won't get many top or uppermidtier places in IM. You may get university but not necessarily the places you interviewed at this time around.

Ultimately I'm sorry this is happening to you. Even though you've done nothing wrong indecision can set you back a bit

Reapply to all of them and more. You're going to need a broad application. You did nothing wrong but exactly like GutOnc said, you're never as competitive as you were during M4. IM is a big field and between applicant pools, interview cohorts, and actual residents who cycle through every year PDs are not really going to remember an interviewee they ranked. It's not advertised but where you may run into a problem is some programs do things like filter out prior applicants to their program to trim down applications to a managable amount. Programs/websites will always encourage you to apply and take your money but then throw your application in the trash and add it to their denominator they read to interview applicants (our program has 10,000 applicants and of that you are one of the lucky 300). Try to find places you didn't apply to the first time as well as all the places you applied to previously.

If you were between IM/Rads I'm not sure why you didn't rank IM prelims over surgical prelims because an IM prelim counts for rads, but that's in the past. If I were in your position I would first try to get my prelim transitioned somehow. Try to find some desperate surgical-aspirant desparate for your surgical prelim. It may not even be a direct swap. Be careful and do it when it's legal but contacting these unfilled IM prelims and finding a spot could be a first step and then finding someone to offload that prelim on may be easier before you talk with the surgery PD. That way, you atleast get an IM year experience with a chance at getting a PGY-2 at that program in July 2022. Even if you don't you're setting yourself up for success for being an IM resident down the line if that's what you want. Many places in the match will unfortunately still make you do IM from the beginning in the match for a position starting in July 2022.

Also, I refrained from asking about motivation but if you were one of those looking to do IR through Rads and now are thinking of IM->Cards instead just understand you probably won't get many top or uppermidtier places in IM. You may get university but not necessarily the places you interviewed at this time around.

Ultimately I'm sorry this is happening to you. Even though you've done nothing wrong indecision can set you back a bit.

Thank you very much. I sort of am one of those people thinking IM to cards. How often will programs choose to screen prior applicants? Will this still happen to you if you matched a separate more competitive speciality? Sort of concerning because I had about 60 places I applied for in IM and interviewed at 10

 

[ZJz4]

Thank you. How often do programs filter out prior applications? I applied pretty broadly in both so I am concerned if that would be a Just curious to see if that would 5



Thank you very much. I sort of am one of those people thinking IM to cards. How often will programs choose to screen prior applicants? Will this still happen to you if you matched a separate more competitive speciality? Sort of concerning because I had about 60 places I applied for in IM and interviewed at 10

The fact programs screen is sort of concerning/ I'm wondering how normal reapplicants manage that

 

[Redpancreas]

The fact programs screen is sort of concerning/ I'm wondering how normal reapplicants manage that

@NotAProgDirector any idea/hint at how many IM programs filter out those who have applied to their program in the past? An advisor told me it was the case at a few programs I'd applied to as well as my previous program and when program directors at a few places, it's not an uncommon policy. Wondering how frequently you think this screening technique is used.

 

[Redpancreas]

The fact programs screen is sort of concerning/ I'm wondering how normal reapplicants manage that

Normal reapplicants usually apply to a different field. I really don't understand what was going through your head here (maybe you're worried about anonymity) but from your post history you initially wanted IR but realized your profile was not competitive and applied DR but don't see a path to that now and are considering Interventional cards? I suppose that explains why you may have wanted the surgical preliminary. If you apply IM you most likely won't be interviewing at places you've volunteered previously but you may get a less popular university program or university affiliated place. I am not 100% sure though because I know of very few cases of this, but that's my best guess. I wish you the best.

 

[ZJz4]

@NotAProgDirector any idea/hint at how many IM programs filter out those who have applied to their program in the past? An advisor told me it was the case at a few programs I'd applied to as well as my previous program and when program directors at a few places, it's not an uncommon policy. Wondering how frequently you think this screening technique is used.

Yes thank you! This is the question I'm really hoping to figure out

 

[ZJz4]

Normal reapplicants usually apply to a different field. I really don't understand what was going through your head here (maybe you're worried about anonymity) but from your post history you initially wanted IR but realized your profile was not competitive and applied DR but don't see a path to that now and are considering Interventional cards? I suppose that explains why you may have wanted the surgical preliminary. If you apply IM you most likely won't be interviewing at places you've volunteered previously but you may get a less popular university program or university affiliated place. I am not 100% sure though because I know of very few cases of this, but that's my best guess. I wish you the best.

It's complicated. Thank you I understand.

 

[ZJz4]

Normal reapplicants usually apply to a different field. I really don't understand what was going through your head here (maybe you're worried about anonymity) but from your post history you initially wanted IR but realized your profile was not competitive and applied DR but don't see a path to that now and are considering Interventional cards? I suppose that explains why you may have wanted the surgical preliminary. If you apply IM you most likely won't be interviewing at places you've volunteered previously but you may get a less popular university program or university affiliated place. I am not 100% sure though because I know of very few cases of this, but that's my best guess. I wish you the best.

I wasn't sure about rads vs medicine and liked my IR rotation which is why I did surg prelim. But now I am reconsidering my decision.

 

[Redpancreas]

It's complicated. Thank you I understand.

I wasn't sure about rads vs medicine and liked my IR rotation which is why I did surg prelim. But now I am reconsidering my decision.

If you really don't want Rads anymore, give it a shot. Report back with what happened. There are few cases of people posting openly about reapplying IM.

 

[ZJz4]

I wasn't sure about rads vs medicine and liked my IR rotation which is why I did surg prelim. But now I am reconsidering my decision.

If you really don't want Rads anymore, give it a shot. Report back with what happened. There are few cases of people posting openly about reapplying IM.

Right. Totally get that, just trying to figure out what would be next steps. Or who I should ask if I want to do that

 

[ZJz4]

Normal reapplicants usually apply to a different field. I really don't understand what was going through your head here (maybe you're worried about anonymity) but from your post history you initially wanted IR but realized your profile was not competitive and applied DR but don't see a path to that now and are considering Interventional cards? I suppose that explains why you may have wanted the surgical preliminary. If you apply IM you most likely won't be interviewing at places you've volunteered previously but you may get a less popular university program or university affiliated place. I am not 100% sure though because I know of very few cases of this, but that's my best guess. I wish you the best.

@NotAProgDirector any idea/hint at how many IM programs filter out those who have applied to their program in the past? An advisor told me it was the case at a few programs I'd applied to as well as my previous program and when program directors at a few places, it's not an uncommon policy. Wondering how frequently you think this screening technique is used.

Just curious, did you switch programs?

 

[Redpancreas]

Right. Totally get that, just trying to figure out what would be next steps. Or who I should ask if I want to do that

1. Do an IM hospital medicine elective and get a new IM letter. Push your school to allow you to do this. It shouldn't be crowded since it's April and everyone's either doing fluff or some chill elective.

2. Talk to IM at your program and be very honest about your situation. Ask if they can write you a new letter addressing the situation.
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The main point is to take advantage of being at a medical school with people who can help because once you've graduated people forget about you.

 

[Redpancreas]

Just curious, did you switch programs?

Yes. My situation was a bit different and doesn't apply here, but yes I applied IM x2.

 

[ZJz4]

1. Do an IM hospital medicine elective and get a new IM letter. Push your school to allow you to do this. It shouldn't be crowded since it's April and everyone's either doing fluff or some chill elective.

2. Talk to IM at your program and be very honest about your situation. Ask if they can write you a new letter addressing the situation.
---

The main point is to take advantage of being at a medical school with people who can help because once you've graduated people forget about you.

Thank

Yes. My situation was a bit different and doesn't apply here, but yes I applied IM x2.

So did you not have to worry about being screened out?

 

[ZJz4]

Thank you for your help

Thank

So did you not have to worry about being screened out?

Thank

So did you not have to worry about being screened out?

I guess my question is, how likely am I to be found out applying IM twice? Like you said, it seems a program would only know if they screened reapplicants

 

[ZJz4]

1. Do an IM hospital medicine elective and get a new IM letter. Push your school to allow you to do this. It shouldn't be crowded since it's April and everyone's either doing fluff or some chill elective.

2. Talk to IM at your program and be very honest about your situation. Ask if they can write you a new letter addressing the situation.
---

The main point is to take advantage of being at a medical school with people who can help because once you've graduated people forget about you.

Yes I have my subI in April. If I still feel this way I'll definitely talk to them at the end of the month

 

[Redpancreas]

So did you not have to worry about being screened out?

I applied broadly the second time. I had luck at university places regionally, at newer programs, places that were really looking for someone to fill a PGY-2 but used ERAS to recruit and only brought it up during the PD interview, and places that seemingly interviewed the whole country which was hard to predict but easy to see in retrospect based on these forums/google docs. I had 15 interviews in total. I did get interviewed at a place that was in my top 5 my first match cycle but I did not get ranked or not ranked high enough there. I suggest you send an application to every university IM program within your region and then really just shotgun after that based on what you're willing to take.

I guess my question is, how likely am I to be found out applying IM twice? Like you said, it seems a program would only know if they screened reapplicants

Meh not that simple. These IM PDs can be real Curious George's if they want to be. I have a family friend whose dad is a PD. He has this master spreadsheet of applicants and collects every piece of information he can and has this grand vision of creating the perfect formula to predict the best applicants. PDs also seemed really interested in my track record before high school during interviews. I was an MCAT instructor because I did 95th percentile the MCAT sections and nearly every PD brought that up during the interviews despite more diverse experiences and were very curious about my academic journey (why I choose a lower tier undergrad for direct med). I think these people are naturally curious and are doing their best to piece together all this data to make the most informed decision. I would not feed them anything to make them believe you were not a perfect applicant before this or that you have any other intentions but to match Internal Medicine alone.

Yes I have my subI in April. If I still feel this way I'll definitely talk to them at the end of the month

Perfect! That's an amazing place to get a new letter.

 

[ZJz4]

I applied broadly the second time. I had luck at university places regionally, at newer programs, places that were really looking for someone to fill a PGY-2 but used ERAS to recruit and only brought it up during the PD interview, and places that seemingly interviewed the whole country which was hard to predict but easy to see in retrospect based on these forums/google docs. I had 15 interviews in total. I did get interviewed at a place that was in my top 5 my first match cycle but I did not get ranked or not ranked high enough there. I suggest you send an application to every university IM program within your region and then really just shotgun after that based on what you're willing to take.

Meh not that simple. These IM PDs can be real Curious George's if they want to be. I have a family friend whose dad is a PD. He has this master spreadsheet of applicants and collects every piece of information he can and has this grand vision of creating the perfect formula to predict the best applicants. PDs also seemed really interested in my track record before high school. I was an MCAT instructor because I did 95th percentile on the MCAT and nearly every PD brought that up during the interview and were very curious about my academic journey (I choose a lower tier undergrad for direct med).

Perfect! That's an amazing place to get a new letter.

So are you saying if you were to reapply include it in your new PS? Or only if directly asked about it.

 

[Redpancreas]

So are you saying if you were to reapply include it in your new PS? Or only if directly asked about it.

It depends on the kind of person you want to market yourself as. I was 100% transparent in all my communications, some people probably listened and were like we're not going to rank this guy, some people seemed to generally appreciate my transparency and detail I provided about my situation which is apparently more detail than my program had provided in their letters.

I will say though that looking back, I would just give them the least information possible. This is coming from someone who did the opposite.

 

[ZJz4]

It depends on the kind of person you want to market yourself as. I was 100% transparent in all my communications, some people probably listened and were like we're not going to rank this guy, some people seemed to generally appreciate my transparency and detail I provided about my situation which is apparently more detail than my program had provided in their letters.

I will say though that looking back, I would just give them the least information possible. This is coming from someone who did the opposite.

Thank you. One other question, how often do spots open outside the match in IM?e) ex: a resident leaves a program, or a program has extra funding and is willing to take you on?

 

[Redpancreas]

Thank you. One other question, how often do spots open outside the match in IM?e) ex: a resident leaves a program, or a program has extra funding and is willing to take you on?

From what I have observed, larger/more desirable programs won't go looking for someone to fill an opening because one resident left. I emailed the entire country and got no bites. The ones who did email back said there were no open spots even when I knew for a fact residents left/there were openings just advertised a few days back. Ultimately I'm glad I didn't settle and got the spot I have. You should try your luck with the match because you wont get anything better outside the match unless you get very lucky. You may not the list you had the first time around but if you only exhausted 60 or so IM programs, there are a ton more and you may find some comparable ones. There are opportunities to fill vacancies but PDs are pretty hush about it. In terms of funding, you need to realize how GME Medicare funding works. There are essentially 2 streams known as Direct Medication Education (DME) and Indirect Medical Education (IME). The DME is subsidized 50% by medicare and the IME is completely covered. Generally IME is more expensive. Therefore, if a residency program wants you and you've exhausted a year, you're already over 75% subsized by funding for that year. Then, there's the prospect of a larger programs that go over the funding cap where funding won't be an issue.

 

[ZJz4]

From what I have observed, larger/more desirable programs won't go looking for someone to fill an opening because one resident left. I emailed the entire country and got no bites. The ones who did email back said there were no open spots even when I knew for a fact residents left/there were openings just advertised a few days back. Ultimately I'm glad I didn't settle and got the spot I have. You should try your luck with the match because you wont get anything better outside the match unless you get very lucky. You may not the list you had the first time around but if you only exhausted 60 or so IM programs, there are a ton more and you may find some comparable ones. There are opportunities to fill vacancies but PDs are pretty hush about it. In terms of funding, you need to realize how GME Medicare funding works. There are essentially 2 streams known as Direct Medication Education (DME) and Indirect Medical Education (IME). The DME is subsidized 50% by medicare and the IME is completely covered. Generally IME is more expensive. Therefore, if a residency program wants you and you've exhausted a year, you're already over 75% subsized by funding for that year. Then, there's the prospect of a larger programs that go over the funding cap where funding won't be an issue.

Thank you. One last followup question, is there anyway to figure out what percentage of med programs screen out reapplicants? My only concern is that the 60 programs were most of the quality programs in my region.

 

[ZJz4]

Thank you. One last followup question, is there anyway to figure out what percentage of med programs screen out reapplicants? My only concern is that the 60 programs were most of the quality programs in my region.

Could I also reach out to my surg prelims IM department?

 

[Redpancreas]

Thank you. One last followup question, is there anyway to figure out what percentage of med programs screen out reapplicants? My only concern is that the 60 programs were most of the quality programs in my region.

It's definitely not published. Every IM PD is pretty unrevealing about this in my experience (because who to be the transparent nice guy when all you will be rewarded with is a drop in applications to your program). It is unfortunate because why you did not get matched is often a black box. Perhaps the best person to ask though is an IM PD though because they would have a better vantage point than me to at least speculate on a macro scale whereas all I'm certain of is a few (n=3 schools do this).

Could I also reach out to my surg prelims IM department?

Speak with your school (not your IM categorical program) about when you can do this and go for it. There's a 45 day period you still need to complete of your IM program to satisfy the match. I'm not sure what that means about starting to flirt with other programs.

 

[Redpancreas]

@NotAProgDirector I want to apologize. I was asking similar questions on multiple forums due to my anxiety of the situation. Without going into details, the situation is rather unique. The only additional information I would ask for at this point is if IM programs have a way to screen reapplicants? I have sort of asked the question in different formats, but wanted your perspective. If you could let me know if that happens and/or how often you think it does, I would appreciate it so much! Thank you for your help

Thank you. Just curious, you said n=3 did this. How many did you ask? Is there some sort of filter they used?

I asked three who all gave me that answer. That's obviously not enough to make any conclusions. I do not know how PDs see it on their end but they all basically said something similar to the fact that they don't interview reapplicants to their individual program. It seems as if I freaked you out...honestly OP if you only applied 60 there are definitely enough remaining programs to apply to which can get you Cards fellowship. You may have to work a little harder to match than you would have but trust me when I say none of the programs you described in earlier threads give you a cakewalk into Cards either.

 

[ZJz4]

I asked three who all gave me that answer. That's obviously not enough to make any conclusions. I do not know how PDs see it on their end but they all basically said something similar to the fact that they don't interview reapplicants to their individual program. It seems as if I freaked you out...honestly OP if you only applied 60 there are definitely enough remaining programs to apply to which can get you Cards fellowship. You may have to work a little harder to match than you would have but trust me when I say none of the programs you described in earlier threads give you a cakewalk into Cards either.

Thank you! Based on this post. Applicant Match History

There doesn't seem there's a way to know short of them remembering your application

 

[Redpancreas]

Thank you! Based on this post. Applicant Match History

There doesn't seem there's a way to know short of them remembering your application

LMFAO dude. You basically exhausted everyone on this forum with your questions and keep taking our bits and feeding them to others. Honestly it seems like my information doesn't line up exactly with NAPDs but more importantly I know why he/she is not responding to my tag as they usually do within a day.

Honestly dude I know I don't know you, but this is the vibe I'm getting and I think it'd be useful for you to hear: You really don't care about any field of medicine but want to ultimately be a well compensated percutaneous vascular proceduralist and are trying to find the easiest path to that with the least amount of work/time. You don't want to gamble with Radiology (?ESIR) path ( I assume you did not match a prestigious rads program that offers that guarantee for you) but you also don't want to jump ship to IM unless you end up at one of the 60 places you originally applied to that will give you an easy path into Cardiology. My advice is to settle on whether you see yourself as fundamentally an internist or radiologist first. Then give that specialty your best effort and do what you can to match Cards-Interventional or ESIR. There's nothing wrong with pursuing it directly and you had a shot at with direct IR but presumably did not match that. Now you have to put in your dues just like everyone else. If you reapply IM you will most likely match IM and with work (perhaps a chief year, more research than most) you can match Cards and do what you want. Not sure what else do tell you but don't @ me because essentially all your questions seem to come back to this.

 

[ZJz4]

LMFAO dude. You basically exhausted everyone on this forum with your questions and keep taking our bits and feeding them to others. Honestly it seems like my information doesn't line up exactly with NAPDs but more importantly I know why he/she is not responding to my tag as they usually do within a day.

Honestly dude I know I don't know you, but this is the vibe I'm getting and I think it'd be useful for you to hear: You really don't care about any field of medicine but want to ultimately be a well compensated percutaneous vascular proceduralist and are trying to find the easiest path to that with the least amount of work/time. You don't want to gamble with Radiology (?ESIR) path ( I assume you did not match a prestigious rads program that offers that guarantee for you) but you also don't want to jump ship to IM unless you end up at one of the 60 places you originally applied to that will give you an easy path into Cardiology. My advice is to settle on whether you see yourself as fundamentally an internist or radiologist first. Then give that specialty your best effort and do what you can to match Cards-Interventional or ESIR. There's nothing wrong with pursuing it directly and you had a shot at with direct IR but presumably did not match that. Now you have to put in your dues just like everyone else. If you reapply IM you will most likely match IM and with work (perhaps a chief year, more research than most) you can match Cards and do what you want. Not sure what else do tell you but don't @ me because essentially all your questions seem to come back to this.

Okay thank you for your feedback. I sincerely apologies if I am angering you with you my questions. It am just trying to garner as much information as possible and appreciate all of your insight.

 

[GoSpursGo]

@NotAProgDirector I want to apologize. I was asking similar questions on multiple forums due to my anxiety of the situation. Without going into details, the situation is rather unique. The only additional information I would ask for at this point is if IM programs have a way to screen reapplicants? I have sort of asked the question in different formats, but wanted your perspective. If you could let me know if that happens and/or how often you think it does, I would appreciate it so much! Thank you for your help

Thank you. Just curious, you said n=3 did this. How many did you ask? Is there some sort of filter they used?

I will re-post what I said in one of the other threads what you asked this.

In general, if you applied to a program previously and either didn't get an interview or did not match, the question you need to ask yourself is "What has changed about my application that would lead me to expect a different result," not, "Does this program screen out re-applicants." Regardless of whether or not you are automatically screened out, if you apply again with essentially the same application but a year further out from graduation, then you should expect the same result.

 

[ZJz4]

I will re-post what I said in one of the other threads what you asked this.

In general, if you applied to a program previously and either didn't get an interview or did not match, the question you need to ask yourself is "What has changed about my application that would lead me to expect a different result," not, "Does this program screen out re-applicants." Regardless of whether or not you are automatically screened out, if you apply again with essentially the same application but a year further out from graduation, then you should expect the same result.

Thank you

 

[Redpancreas]

I will re-post what I said in one of the other threads what you asked this.

In general, if you applied to a program previously and either didn't get an interview or did not match, the question you need to ask yourself is "What has changed about my application that would lead me to expect a different result," not, "Does this program screen out re-applicants." Regardless of whether or not you are automatically screened out, if you apply again with essentially the same application but a year further out from graduation, then you should expect the same result.

In a nutshell, OP wants to ultimately do minimally invasive vascular procedures and sees IM and Radiology as a stepping stone to that. He ranked Radiology programs (ESIR viable options) and IM programs (Cards viable options). He matched Radiology but is worried he about the viability of ESIR at that program and is wishing he did IM which he had interviewed at but ranked lower so he was not necessarily unsuccessful.

OP TBH I don't think anyone knows anything else to sway you one way or another. Even the PDs are going to be limited to what they do at their own institution. Knowing you, you probably have a throwaway on Reddit you're asking this too. I anticipate no one's going to be able to advise you with any certainty. I think my ultimate advice still stands which is that you should choose the field based on how you like the initial training and not worry about the terminal/fellowship routes. While both options allow you to do similar sounding things, the training is completely different and you don't want to do something you can not at least tolerate. If you see yourself more as a Radiologist, do Radiology. Vice versa.

 

[GoSpursGo]

In a nutshell, OP wants to ultimately do minimally invasive vascular procedures and sees IM and Radiology as a stepping stone to that. He ranked Radiology programs (ESIR viable options) and IM programs (Cards viable options). He matched Radiology but is worried he about the viability of ESIR at that program and is wishing he did IM which he had interviewed at but ranked lower so he was not necessarily unsuccessful.

OP TBH I don't think anyone knows anything else to sway you one way or another. Even the PDs are going to be limited to what they do at their own institution. Knowing you, you probably have a throwaway on Reddit you're asking this too. I anticipate no one's going to be able to advise you with any certainty. I think my ultimate advice still stands which is that you should choose the field based on how you like the initial training and not worry about the terminal/fellowship routes. While both options allow you to do similar sounding things, the training is completely different and you don't want to do something you can not at least tolerate. If you see yourself more as a Radiologist, do Radiology. Vice versa.

Ah. Apologies if that was obvious from the posts in thread.

In that case I probably wouldn’t risk reapplying to places that you ranked too low to match last time. They may or may not remember you, but if they do I feel like they would be very unlikely to interview you (or rank you, if you make it to the interview stage and they recognize you in person) a second time after you previously burned them. I have to imagine in particular that if they see you in person, someone (PD, PC, residents, faculty) is going to remember you.

you have to fulfill a 45 day commitment anyways, so just go in with an open mind and see how you feel in September.

 

[GoSpursGo]

W

Would you think they are likely to remember you based on a zoom session?

As always, just depends on the person. But keep that your photo was on your ERAS application, and some places have those pictures next to your name when they are discussing their final rank list to help jog everyone's memory.

I personally don't think it would work out for you. At the end of the day it's your money, so you can always just apply again and find out. In any event, again, you're getting way ahead of yourself here.