Switching to a PsyD - Help!!

[uviswana]

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I'm just finishing up my first year of a Clinical Psych PhD program that I'm extremely unhappy with, and want to switch to a PsyD program. I know it's late in the game to apply for this fall, but I'm hoping I can squeeze my way into a good PsyD program at the last minute. I have a strong academic background (BA and MA from Harvard, good clinical experience) and a lot of soul, and I hope I can win a dean over with them.
Over the course of this year, my PhD program has begun redirecting its focus towards research and has chosen to strip down our clinical training to its bare bones (forcing older clinical faculty to retire, making our externship optional, cutting our assessment and therapy courses into only those relevant to research.) I chose to come here because I wanted to be funded and was willing to do research while I was here to do so. I no longer feel that way, as I find myself yearning for clinical work and totally blocked when it comes to research.
I now feel that it's worth it for me to pay for a PsyD if it's going to make me happier. I read the previous threads on the derth of information that ranks PsyD programs. I was wondering if you have any advice for me in selecting a program that is affordable with really good faculty and clinical opportunities... What are your thoughts about Loyola?

 

[jpaquette]

Everything I have heard of the program at Loyola has been positive. If not for location factor (I was pretty set on wanting to move to the West Coast), it would certainly have been one of my top choices. Very good faculty, very good clinical opportunities.

 

[edieb]

Will Psy.D. programs let you transfer your course work from your Ph.D. program (i.e., if you're second year Ph.D. are you second year Psy.D. or do you have to start from year 1)?

 

[50960]

Hey Paendrag where have you been hiding?? Good advice! Stick with the program you are in. I know it seems like it is a life decision now, but it really is not. I was a newly minted PhD from a science heavy British Univ, and then decided I did not want to spend my life in the professor/publish or perish race. I moved back home (Ca.) and completed a Psy.D. while I worked to support my family. Now I have a license etc... I would really have regretted not finishing the PhD. You can always go back and/or do other things!! 😎

 

[ChildPsych]

psici- Just wondering- Is there a reason you had to do your PsyD after already completing a PhD in clinical psychology? I am confused...

 

[50960]

Ya a good reason. My PhD is in developmental psych, and is 100% research based. This is how they do it in the UK. Up until very recently there was no concept a clinical psychologist license there.

😎

 

[PublicHealth]

Ya a good reason. My PhD is in developmental psych, and is 100% research based. This is how they do it in the UK. Up until very recently there was no concept a clinical psychologist license there.

😎

Psisci,

Would you mind sharing some tips regarding how to go about negotiating relationships with hospitals and medical clinics during doctoral training in clinical psychology? What kinds of things are important (e.g., clinical extenships, research)? You seem to have had great success in this area, so others would undoubtedly benefit from your expertise.

Regards,

PH

 

[lazure]

I also advise the OP to stay in the PhD program. It does open more doors.... Good Luck... and you never know, research may grow on you 😉

 

[psychapp]

Hey there,

I am in the boat with the previous posters about staying put where you are. The end result of both will be the same; however, with the PsyD, you might have to start all over and pay a lot of money. I got this advice when thinking about applying to a research-heavy clinical program that I wasn't sure I could make through for five years: stop thinking about the process and think about the results. It's only five years of your life to get to the same place a PsyD would take you, and you won't spend your first five to ten years of working paying off $100K+ in student loans.

 

[jpaquette]

I'm not sure I can give definitive advice one way or another about what someone should do in this case. On the one hand, it is best not to go into debt if you don't have to. Conversely, if a program doesn't suit you, perhaps it is best to look elsewhere. The only thing I find a bit amusing/sad is the way people are talking about "just getting through the next 5 years." This is not an issue of finishing up your last year or 2 and getting out. Rather, we could be talking about 4-5 more years. Saying it's "only 5 years of your life" is a rather unfortunate way to think about things. Whether you are enjoying your program or not, 5 years if an awful long time. To feel like you're wasting those years doing something you don't enjoy would be a pretty sad existence as far as I'm concerned.

 

[50960]

Good point. I guess it is perspective we are suggesting. School is not meant to be enjoyed. It is meant to be rigorous training, and to be very hard and at times trying. This is the case wherever one may go. The points we are making is that PhD or Psy.D you will end up with the same license to do the same thing. I have learned a million times more psychology since I graduated than I ever did in school. Life and work really begins when you graduate. 😉

 

[jpaquette]

I'm not disagreeing with anyone here...just don't think you should minimize a person's happiness during the 4-5 year period. Perhaps school isn't meant to be enjoyed as much as some things, but I'm sure it is more interesting, enjoyable and rewarding if you are working in an area that appeals to you. I am sure that life takes off after you graduate, but don't discount the school years as well. They don't have to be pure misery. Figure out what's important to you and go from there.

 

[LM02]

Like the others, I would most likely advise someone in your position to stick it out. However, these are the issues I would consider:

1. Sticking it out: Is there a way to carve a niche in your current program to gain more clinical training/experience along the way? I come from a heavily research-oriented background, and there were always 1 or 2 students in my program who decided to focus on pursuing a clinical career. Honestly, the faculty were probably a bit disappointed, but in the end nobody blocked them from doing what they chose to do. It's a bit tough because someone in that position may feel that the faculty invest less time in them b/c it is clear that they are going the clinical route. But perhaps this isn't a bad thing either - you may find that you have more freedom to do what you want. Though I would suggest finding a mentor (e.g., a community supervisor) that you can talk to about identifying outside clinical placements, going to for support, etc.

2. Switching out to PsyD: For lots of reasons (time, $$, etc.), this might not be the best option. However, if staying in the PhD program is so miserable that it will impede your ability to actually finish the degree at all, perhaps making the switch would be better in the long run. Attrition is a real phenomenon in graduate school (no matter the discipline), and perhaps some extra time and lots of extra money will be worth it if it gets you a degree vs. no degree at all. I had a classmate who was in your shoes, and made it all the way to his 4th year of grad school. But he couldn't motivate to write his dissertation proposal at all. His heart just wasn't in it - he tried, for about a year, and then finally realized that he wanted to pursue a clinical direction and transferred to a PsyD program. In the end, he's much happier and reports feeling like "a huge burden was lifted off of [his] shoulders." I can't say that is what I would do, but I know he does not regret his decision for a moment.

So in the end, I would vote for strategy #1. But if it's just not going to happen at all, the PsyD might end up the better option.

Just my thoughts on the matter...good luck!

 

[winnie]

Good post, LM02...Another thing to keep in mind is that PsyD programs are generally a year shorter than PhD programs, so you could potentially be graduating the same time as originally planned.

I don't know where the $100K+ debt figure is coming from...Keep in mind there are some (not many) reasonably priced PsyD programs out there. If you are flexible about where you can live, it is possible to get out with minimal debt. I looked in the the Loyola MD PsyD program too last year. I agree that it looked good, but it is expensive.

Also, I'm not sure I agree that a PhD gives you more options. If you are not interested in research, you're presumably not interested in an acaedmic career. For someone who wants to be a clinician, it makes more sense to me to get as much and as varied clinical training as possible. I agree with jpaquette that it's a bit sad when someone pretends to be interested in research just to get into a PhD program and proceeds to make themselves miserable for 6 years or whatever. Surely school is supposed to be at least stimulating, not just something to be endured.

 

[petalpox]

As someone who's been out a couple years and who has both clinical and research training and experience, I'd say to stay where you are if it's a strong program. Being funded is a big advantage, studying research has value and expands your job options alot, including for clinical positions, and you can shape your own training alot, perhaps more than people in school realize. You can do outcomes research, for one, looking at efficacy of therapies. Also, you can take a clinical externship in your case, which I would do if you have any good opportunities to do so. With a PhD in clinical psych, even if the emphasis in your school was research, you will not have trouble taking a clinical route in your career. Another option for you is to get more clinical training later - there are tons of options for this, e.g. psychodynamic training institutes, cog-behavioral traiining, etc designed just for people who for one reason or another want further clinical training after they are out of school. It's not a way to make up foir deficient schooling - it's a way to further enhance your knowledge and career - that is, lots of people from PsyD programsdo this too. Maybe they want to do more child or family work and so sign up with a family traiing institute. They are much cheaper than grad school is, and more flexible, and offer networking opportiunities, referrals for your practice, etc. In my opinion, with a background at Harvard especially, going into a PsyD program is a big step down, which you will see, I believe, when you see that you have no problem gaining admission into PsyD programs. (I think PhD programs are more competitive, rigorous, and offer better training.)