Switching Undergrad Schools: Teachers Dont Teach?

[Tsukiyo]

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I used to go to a community college and resented how easy the classwork was. I left it with an AS (4.0) and an AA (one B in Calc I), with tons of volunteering experience, a national award that got my school recognized, etc. (Note: No grade curving).

I thought, "How can school be this easy? Perhaps I'm not learning?" So I decided to test myself on gen chem with one of my Examkrackers books and got a 9/15 without studying and just jokingly answering questions. I thought, "Hey, I can ace anyplace! My remaining sciences will be a breeze!"


So I transfer to the only place I can afford to get my BS in Bio, the local state university. This is where I learned about teachers not teaching. They expect you to read beforehand (always do) and then more or less read off powerpoints and don't relate point A to point B to explore the depth of the material covered. Tests almost never match books or lecture material, and science classes are heavily curved because test averages run from 40-60% in any science class. (So you're golden if the lecture material and the book reflects the test completely - that's how I got an A in Orgo Lab I!)

Quizzes are literally about the material just mentioned in lecture on the day or the day before, so most people fail quizzes because of not having enough time to review and practice material.

Online homework only half matches the text, and if you're lucky enough to have a recitation/workshop with your science class, there's no way you'll have enough time to ask all of the questions you need. Don't bother with office hours either, because there's always a mile long and the professor rushes you out after a question or two so that they can see as many people as possible in their few office hours. And don't bother with tutors, because they are either $30/hr grad students with limited spots or the free peer tutors that can get a B and work to teach others. (I got a B in Orgo I and I can tell you, I don't remember nor know how to do squat.)


TL;DR, have you ever transferred from one school to another to find out the teachers don't teach, or better, they teach properly compared to your old, crappy school? How did you deal with the worse of the two?

 

[deleted357625]

I used to go to a community college and resented how easy the classwork was. I left it with an AS (4.0) and an AA (one B in Calc I), with tons of volunteering experience, a national award that got my school recognized, etc. (Note: No grade curving).

I thought, "How can school be this easy? Perhaps I'm not learning?" So I decided to test myself on gen chem with one of my Examkrackers books and got a 9/15 without studying and just jokingly answering questions. I thought, "Hey, I can ace anyplace! My remaining sciences will be a breeze!"


So I transfer to the only place I can afford to get my BS in Bio, the local state university. This is where I learned about teachers not teaching. They expect you to read beforehand (always do) and then more or less read off powerpoints and don't relate point A to point B to explore the depth of the material covered. Tests almost never match books or lecture material, and science classes are heavily curved because test averages run from 40-60% in any science class. (So you're golden if the lecture material and the book reflects the test completely - that's how I got an A in Orgo Lab I!)

Quizzes are literally about the material just mentioned in lecture on the day or the day before, so most people fail quizzes because of not having enough time to review and practice material.

Online homework only half matches the text, and if you're lucky enough to have a recitation/workshop with your science class, there's no way you'll have enough time to ask all of the questions you need. Don't bother with office hours either, because there's always a mile long and the professor rushes you out after a question or two so that they can see as many people as possible in their few office hours. And don't bother with tutors, because they are either $30/hr grad students with limited spots or the free peer tutors that can get a B and work to teach others. (I got a B in Orgo I and I can tell you, I don't remember nor know how to do squat.)


TL;DR, have you ever transferred from one school to another to find out the teachers don't teach, or better, they teach properly compared to your old, crappy school? How did you deal with the worse of the two?

Tell me about it...it's sick..
currently happening in my bio class

 

[gettheleadout]

Tell me about it...it's sick..
currently happening in my bio class

It's going to be happening a lot in med school.

 

[Tsukiyo]

Tell me about it...it's sick..
currently happening in my bio class

Happening in physics and o-chem for me this semester so I feel your pain. 🙁

I actually want to go back to school after medical school to reform the entire education system at large universities. (I've worked as a tutor at my CC and figured out what's missing from the system.)

• Practice tests will accurately match actual tests in style and content, but with different questions. If the teacher doesn't do this, this is grounds for warning or even being fired.
• Formula sheets that will be on tests will be divided by chapters and available on day 1 of class. This way, by chapter, you know what you need to memorize and what you don't and you can focus more on trying the problem then figuring out why your formulas don't match.
• EVERY homework and practice problem will have an alternate version with a fully written out answer and explanation available on the class website. This way a student can understand how to get from point A to point B, instead of figuring out why they can't get the answer after two hours of trying. (Has happened to me so many times in physics...)
• Online tutors will be available until 11pm, every day, online. No more of this "no tutors on Fridays and Saturdays" crap that I get from my school. (Those are my only free days :\) Scheduling will not limit accessibility.
• Weekly homework will be open until Sundays at 10pm. Some of us have commitments during the week and can't possibly finish everything by a Friday afternoon deadline. (Again, has happened to me).
• Tutors will be required to pass a test on their subject and must score an 80-85% or higher to be able to tutor it. On the upside, these tutors must be paid at least $9/hr by the institution for being so qualified. Tutors that want "overtime" can choose to be available online outside normal hours and get paid an extra $2/hr for the sacrifice of sleep.
  
  
  And I can't remember the rest. 😀

 

[gettheleadout]

Some teachers would argue that you don't understand the formulas you're using if you can't identify which ones are appropriate at what times, and would be adamantly opposed to dividing test formula sheets by textbook chapter.

 

[Tsukiyo]

Some teachers would argue that you don't understand the formulas you're using if you can't identify which ones are appropriate at what times, and would be adamantly opposed to dividing test formula sheets by textbook chapter.

My gen chem book had the formulas posted at the end, although they weren't given to us during the test. Knowing that I need to use formulas 1, 2, 3, 4, and 5, and knowing what their symbols represent makes it easier to learn why I had to calculate what I had to calculate. I had the hardest time with one chapter, and when I noticed the formula list at the end I began to breeze through it.

Also, there are ten tons of formulas in physics right now, and taking the ones from the summary plus a few spares also makes things easier. Its hard to explain but it sticks 1000x better that way.

 

[venacontracta]

Learn to teach yourself difficult material. If you're embarking on this path, you are in for many more years of formal education (during which you will have to put up with your fair share of lousy professors like everyone else) plus an entire lifetime of having to use various resources to stay up to date on your own. Maybe this is an artifact of my own learning style, but I don't think complex scientific concepts are well suited to lecture-style teaching in the first place. If you have a good textbook or notes, you can work through it concept by concept at your own pace and ensure that you fully understand everything before you move on.

 

[Negrodamus]

Learn to teach yourself difficult material. If you're embarking on this path, you are in for many more years of formal education (during which you will have to put up with your fair share of lousy professors like everyone else) plus an entire lifetime of having to use various resources to stay up to date on your own. Maybe this is an artifact of my own learning style, but I don't think complex scientific concepts are well suited to lecture-style teaching in the first place. If you have a good textbook or notes, you can work through it concept by concept at your own pace and ensure that you fully understand everything before you move on.

I've never been in their situation before, however, there is a difference between teaching yourself the material and not knowing (Because the Teacher/Instructor/TA doesn't follow the syllabus) what to teach yourself.

 

[Tsukiyo]

I've never been in their situation before, however, there is a difference between teaching yourself the material and not knowing (Because the Teacher/Instructor/TA doesn't follow the syllabus) what to teach yourself.

Mainly in o-chem II does the teacher not follow the syllabus. We have students who didn't take the instructor I have for O-chem I and don't know about organometallics, yet they weren't taught anytime during this semester and were on the test.

Not to mention the online homework we've had where the teacher had versions of the mechanisms that he hadn't taught us as questions and they weren't in the book where they should be. Pretty much 99% of the class fails those types of questions.


I wish these professors were much more clear about what they wanted us to know and would follow the text. :\

 

[IvyHopeful20]

Happening in physics and o-chem for me this semester so I feel your pain. 🙁

I actually want to go back to school after medical school to reform the entire education system at large universities. (I've worked as a tutor at my CC and figured out what's missing from the system.)

• Practice tests will accurately match actual tests in style and content, but with different questions. If the teacher doesn't do this, this is grounds for warning or even being fired.
• Formula sheets that will be on tests will be divided by chapters and available on day 1 of class. This way, by chapter, you know what you need to memorize and what you don't and you can focus more on trying the problem then figuring out why your formulas don't match.
• EVERY homework and practice problem will have an alternate version with a fully written out answer and explanation available on the class website. This way a student can understand how to get from point A to point B, instead of figuring out why they can't get the answer after two hours of trying. (Has happened to me so many times in physics...)
• Online tutors will be available until 11pm, every day, online. No more of this "no tutors on Fridays and Saturdays" crap that I get from my school. (Those are my only free days :\) Scheduling will not limit accessibility.
• Weekly homework will be open until Sundays at 10pm. Some of us have commitments during the week and can't possibly finish everything by a Friday afternoon deadline. (Again, has happened to me).
• Tutors will be required to pass a test on their subject and must score an 80-85% or higher to be able to tutor it. On the upside, these tutors must be paid at least $9/hr by the institution for being so qualified. Tutors that want "overtime" can choose to be available online outside normal hours and get paid an extra $2/hr for the sacrifice of sleep.
  
  
  And I can't remember the rest. 😀

Pro-tips:

1. If you memorize and learn the formulas, you won't need the sheet.
2. If you don't memorize them, at least learn the formulas, so you won't spend hours looking for the 'right' one.
3. The professors are there as researchers. They have to publish or they perish. You're supposed to learn on your own. Get over it and grow up.

 

[schrizto]

I thought that was how college is supposed to be... I haven't had classes with lectures that matched the text and homework since middle school.

 

[raltima07]

Pro-tips:

1. If you memorize and learn the formulas, you won't need the sheet.
2. If you don't memorize them, at least learn the formulas, so you won't spend hours looking for the 'right' one.
3. The professors are there as researchers. They have to publish or they perish. You're supposed to learn on your own. Get over it and grow up.

Publish or perish? I'll take perish!

 

[orthomyxo]

Welcome to college.

 

[IvyHopeful20]

Publish or perish? I'll take perish!

Then don't be a professor 🙂.

 

[Drrrrrr. Celty]

Then don't be a professor 🙂.

Or be a professor at a LAC.

 

[IvyHopeful20]

What's a LAC?

 

[Drrrrrr. Celty]

Liberal arts* college.

 

[IvyHopeful20]

Oh God - I couldn't possibly handle the hippy factor.

Or the preppy factor.

 

[Ultimeaciax]

Pro-tips:

1. If you memorize and learn the formulas, you won't need the sheet.
2. If you don't memorize them, at least learn the formulas, so you won't spend hours looking for the 'right' one.
3. The professors are there as researchers. They have to publish or they perish. You're supposed to learn on your own. Get over it and grow up.

Third point: Uh no...if you're supposed to learn on your own then why would you need school and a professor? Professors are there to teach, mentor, as well as research. Though RESEARCH professors are there just mainly for research. If a professor can't handle teaching and research at the same time, they shouldn't be professors. Same logic applies to MDs, who conduct research as well as practicing medicine.

 

[IvyHopeful20]

Third point: Uh no...if you're supposed to learn on your own then why would you need school and a professor? Professors are there to teach, mentor, as well as research. Though RESEARCH professors are there just mainly for research. If a professor can't handle teaching and research at the same time, they shouldn't be professors. Same logic applies to MDs, who conduct research as well as practicing medicine.

They are there as a resource, not to hand hold you through material you can read yourself.

 

[orthomyxo]

Liberal art's college.

Who the hell is Liberal Art?

 

[ShinyDome19]

Third point: Uh no...if you're supposed to learn on your own then why would you need school and a professor? Professors are there to teach, mentor, as well as research. Though RESEARCH professors are there just mainly for research. If a professor can't handle teaching and research at the same time, they shouldn't be professors. Same logic applies to MDs, who conduct research as well as practicing medicine.

This same logic can be applied to college students...If college students cant be responsible enough to take their learning into their own hands, they shouldn't be college students. I would say try Phoenix online or something...but wait, they have to learn on their own too.

"Teaching" is not the job of the professor. They are there to simply guide your learning; to tell you what is important and what is not. Its your job to go and learn the actual material on your own. If you cant handle that, thats what Basket Weaving and Library Sciences are for.

Besides, think about what a professor is. To get a PhD in a science, you don't have to take any education classes to learn what techniques work to teach students. In order for most professors to do research and have a lab at a university, they just sign a contract that says they will instruct X number of courses every year.
Furthermore, the sciences/medicine are life-long learning fields where your expected to be continuously teaching yourself. You think that when some new technique/medicine comes out that the inventor hires a teacher to go around to every doctor in the nation and show them how and when to use it. No, you teach yourself by reading.

 

[The Lady Grey]

Happening in physics and o-chem for me this semester so I feel your pain. 🙁

I actually want to go back to school after medical school to reform the entire education system at large universities. (I've worked as a tutor at my CC and figured out what's missing from the system.)

• Practice tests will accurately match actual tests in style and content, but with different questions. If the teacher doesn't do this, this is grounds for warning or even being fired.
• Formula sheets that will be on tests will be divided by chapters and available on day 1 of class. This way, by chapter, you know what you need to memorize and what you don't and you can focus more on trying the problem then figuring out why your formulas don't match.
• EVERY homework and practice problem will have an alternate version with a fully written out answer and explanation available on the class website. This way a student can understand how to get from point A to point B, instead of figuring out why they can't get the answer after two hours of trying. (Has happened to me so many times in physics...)
• Online tutors will be available until 11pm, every day, online. No more of this "no tutors on Fridays and Saturdays" crap that I get from my school. (Those are my only free days :\) Scheduling will not limit accessibility.
• Weekly homework will be open until Sundays at 10pm. Some of us have commitments during the week and can't possibly finish everything by a Friday afternoon deadline. (Again, has happened to me).
• Tutors will be required to pass a test on their subject and must score an 80-85% or higher to be able to tutor it. On the upside, these tutors must be paid at least $9/hr by the institution for being so qualified. Tutors that want "overtime" can choose to be available online outside normal hours and get paid an extra $2/hr for the sacrifice of sleep.
  
  
  And I can't remember the rest. 😀

This is complete crap. Are the professors also suppose to give "practice problems" for how the material will be used on the MCAT, PCAT, and DAT? If you truly know the material and the concept/purpose of the formulas, you should be able to apply the concepts to any situation (fyi, the MCAT doesn't tell you most of the formulas you need and it magically "mixes" concepts from different areas). Truly learning the material is 100% your own responsibility because if you don't truly learn it, you will not retain it.

This same logic can be applied to college students...If college students cant be responsible enough to take their learning into their own hands, they shouldn't be college students. I would say try Phoenix online or something...but wait, they have to learn on their own too.

"Teaching" is not the job of the professor. They are there to simply guide your learning; to tell you what is important and what is not. Its your job to go and learn the actual material on your own. If you cant handle that, thats what Basket Weaving and Library Sciences are for.

Besides, think about what a professor is. To get a PhD in a science, you don't have to take any education classes to learn what techniques work to teach students. In order for most professors to do research and have a lab at a university, they just sign a contract that says they will instruct X number of courses every year.
Furthermore, the sciences/medicine are life-long learning fields where your expected to be continuously teaching yourself. You think that when some new technique/medicine comes out that the inventor hires a teacher to go around to every doctor in the nation and show them how and when to use it. No, you teach yourself by reading.

👍

 

[circulus vitios]

Welcome to college. I see this every day and it pisses me off. I like it when the professor asks conceptual questions on an exam that aren't covered the book or the lecture and require huge leaps in logic to even come up with an (incorrect) answer, e.g. "what is the proton NMR chemical shift (&#948😉 of a bare proton?" on my organic 2 exam.

 

[circulus vitios]

"Teaching" is not the job of the professor.

Actually it is. Grad students have TA duties and professors have teaching duties. Unless you're a hot **** professor with a golden research record you're not going to escape teaching.

 

[RogueUnicorn]

Happening in physics and o-chem for me this semester so I feel your pain. 🙁

I actually want to go back to school after medical school to reform the entire education system at large universities. (I've worked as a tutor at my CC and figured out what's missing from the system.)

• Practice tests will accurately match actual tests in style and content, but with different questions. If the teacher doesn't do this, this is grounds for warning or even being fired.
• Formula sheets that will be on tests will be divided by chapters and available on day 1 of class. This way, by chapter, you know what you need to memorize and what you don't and you can focus more on trying the problem then figuring out why your formulas don't match.
• EVERY homework and practice problem will have an alternate version with a fully written out answer and explanation available on the class website. This way a student can understand how to get from point A to point B, instead of figuring out why they can't get the answer after two hours of trying. (Has happened to me so many times in physics...)
• Online tutors will be available until 11pm, every day, online. No more of this "no tutors on Fridays and Saturdays" crap that I get from my school. (Those are my only free days :\) Scheduling will not limit accessibility.
• Weekly homework will be open until Sundays at 10pm. Some of us have commitments during the week and can't possibly finish everything by a Friday afternoon deadline. (Again, has happened to me).
• Tutors will be required to pass a test on their subject and must score an 80-85% or higher to be able to tutor it. On the upside, these tutors must be paid at least $9/hr by the institution for being so qualified. Tutors that want "overtime" can choose to be available online outside normal hours and get paid an extra $2/hr for the sacrifice of sleep.
  
  
  And I can't remember the rest. 😀

...lol

Welcome to college. I see this every day and it pisses me off. I like it when the professor asks conceptual questions on an exam that aren't covered the book or the lecture and require huge leaps in logic to even come up with an (incorrect) answer, e.g. "what is the proton NMR chemical shift (&#948😉 of a bare proton?" on my organic 2 exam.

but you can use some principles you learned about H-NMR to make at least a logical guess, knowing should be downfield of any of the shifts you learned in class

 

[JustMeditate]

There is a reason why med schools give less weight to community college classes and more weight to university level classes (Except, apparently, in Texas. Or so Ozzi has told me.) Most community college classes are similar, if not equivalent to, high school classes. The professors will hold your hand the whole way through, tell you everything you need to know (so you don't have to read), and won't ask you any questions on an exam that you haven't been asked before. But being able to memorize the concepts spoon-fed to you is not a mark of intelligence. It's a mark of being able to regurgitate facts.

True understanding requires one to study and contemplate complicated concepts and then apply them to new situations...situations you have never been exposed to before. And the more often you are required to use critical thinking, the better you get at doing so. Critical thinking can't be taught to people by professors. All they can do is throw complicated homeworks, quizzes, and tests at you and hope you learn via practice. Furthermore, you can't give students everything they need to understand a topic in 3 hours a week. Hence the adage "3 hours outside of class for every one hour in class."

All in all, your education is your responsibility, not the professors'. Should they do a good job teaching? Yeah, it is part of their job. But ultimately, you are the one who has to suffer a poor GPA and a gap in intellect if you don't learn the material, not the professor. So, suck it up and learn the material on your own. Do well, and you've proved to medical schools that you have critical thinking skills and can use your brain to solve new problems. No body wants a doctor who can't think on his/her own feet.

And now, I have to go study.

Neither my Orgo II, Animal Anatomy, nor Physics II profs can lecture. So it looks like I am spending my Saturday learning this **** myself. But hey, I'll get my damn A's!

 

[Drrrrrr. Celty]

There is a reason why med schools give less weight to community college classes and more weight to university level classes (Except, apparently, in Texas. Or so Ozzi has told me.) Most community college classes are similar, if not equivalent to, high school classes. The professors will hold your hand the whole way through, tell you everything you need to know (so you don't have to read), and won't ask you any questions on an exam that you haven't been asked before. But being able to memorize the concepts spoon-fed to you is not a mark of intelligence. It's a mark of being able to regurgitate facts.

True understanding requires one to study and contemplate complicated concepts and then apply them to new situations...situations you have never been exposed to before. And the more often you are required to use critical thinking, the better you get at doing so. Critical thinking can't be taught to people by professors. All they can do is throw complicated homeworks, quizzes, and tests at you and hope you learn via practice. Furthermore, you can't give students everything they need to understand a topic in 3 hours a week. Hence the adage "3 hours outside of class for every one hour in class."

All in all, your education is your responsibility, not the professors'. Should they do a good job teaching? Yeah, it is part of their job. But ultimately, you are the one who has to suffer a poor GPA and a gap in intellect if you don't learn the material, not the professor. So, suck it up and learn the material on your own. Do well, and you've proved to medical schools that you have critical thinking skills and can use your brain to solve new problems. No body wants a doctor who can't think on his/her own feet.

And now, I have to go study.

Neither my Orgo II, Animal Anatomy, nor Physics II profs can lecture. So it looks like I am spending my Saturday learning this **** myself. But hey, I'll get my damn A's!

What community college did you go to? I mean why are you saying it's the same as high school? It's way easier. Hell Uni is easier than high school. 3 classes a day? V.s 7 classes a day with a hellishly early wake up? Not to mention all the hwk..
But yes.. honestly you've got a very convoluted view of community colleges, I actually don't really see much of a difference between my CC and my 4 year except for a bigger class size, a curve, and the fact that I now get a decent cardio walking from class to class.
Just my 2 cents.

 

[enTropeeeeeeeee]

I also felt the shock of teachers not teaching during my freshman year. I quickly decided that I wouldn't leave my education in their hands and started learning everything on my own. In that sense, I'm liberated from the limiting factor of bad profs. I actually hear classmates complain about bad profs nearly every single day. Most of the time, I just agree with them b/c many people find it unacceptable for you to show any disagreement. However, this is SDN and I will probably never meet you. Therefore you should effectively learn to learn on your own.

 

[slatermd]

Who the hell is Liberal Art?

substantial lolz

 

[slatermd]

there is a difference between teaching yourself the material and not knowing (Because the Teacher/Instructor/TA doesn't follow the syllabus) what to teach yourself.

👍

"Teaching" is not the job of the professor. They are there to simply guide your learning; to tell you what is important and what is not. Its your job to go and learn the actual material on your own.

Besides, think about what a professor is. To get a PhD in a science, you don't have to take any education classes to learn what techniques work to teach students.
Furthermore, the sciences/medicine are life-long learning fields where your expected to be continuously teaching yourself.

Truly learning the material is 100% your own responsibility because if you don't truly learn it, you will not retain it.

👎 Learning and being taught are not mutually exclusive. In the end it is the student's responsibility to learn, but that doesn't excuse the professors from teaching.

Teaching yourself with zero guidance yields worse results than teaching yourself under the direction of an excellent teacher.

 

[enTropeeeeeeeee]

👍






👎 Learning and being taught are not mutually exclusive. In the end it is the student's responsibility to learn, but that doesn't excuse the professors from teaching.

Teaching yourself with zero guidance yields worse results than teaching yourself under the direction of an excellent teacher.

I think the poster was simply referring to having the mentality that you should teach yourself 100% of the material, in the situation that your prof is terrible. I suppose it is a defensive mechanism that allows you to still "learn" and do well in the class, even in the worst case scenario.

 

[slatermd]

I think the poster was simply referring to having the mentality that you should teach yourself 100% of the material, in the situation that your prof is terrible. I suppose it is a defensive mechanism that allows you to still "learn" and do well in the class, even in the worst case scenario.

This is true...and it is a defense that every med student needs to survive. I was just thinking that I really appreciate good professors, and I sympathize with the OP to some extent because terrible profs are terrible.

 

[enTropeeeeeeeee]

This is true...and it is a defense that every med student needs to survive. I was just thinking that I really appreciate good professors, and I sympathize with the OP to some extent because terrible profs are terrible.

Agreed. I have a particular MCB prof in mind. She was probably the prof that inspired me to even do pre-med. The way she explained things and the enthusiasm she had.... When I started my own teaching experience, I adopted her style.

 

[orthomyxo]

substantial lolz

Good to see that I'm not the only one who's not always in super cereal mode. 😎

However, I would like to say that OP's "requirements" for professors and classes are laughable. Do you also want your degree handed to you on a silver platter? Maybe the Blue Angels can do a fly-over at your graduation, just before you sink your teeth into a complimentary filet mignon while enjoying a private show by Lady Gaga.

 

[enTropeeeeeeeee]

Good to see that I'm not the only one who's not always in super cereal mode. 😎
However, I would like to say that OP's "requirements" for professors and classes are laughable. Do you also want your degree handed to you on a silver platter? Maybe the Blue Angels can do a fly-over at your graduation, just before you sink your teeth into a complimentary filet mignon while enjoying a private show by Lady Gaga.

😕

 

[orthomyxo]

😕

😕

 

[Signifier]

I despise the standard "welcome to college" explaining-away of terrible teaching. Of course, college is a place for far more independent learning and autonomy than high school, and it is also a place where people who are better learners and harder workers will rise to the top.

Does this climate mean professors should be allowed to be terrible teachers?

Imagine that every professor excelled at teaching - meaning they deeply understood and could superbly explain and present the material, sought every opportunity to check and give feedback on student understanding, differentiated content (or at least made such differentiation possible) so that faster students could effectively deepen their own understanding, etc.

Two results- 1) lower end students who still attended class would improve both in understanding and in test scores, 2) higher end students would learn more and learn it more deeply.

BTW: LACs may have some hippies and preppies, but the small class sizes and greater emphasis on teaching in comparison with huge research universities means you will actually find professors more akin to the description above. Hippies aside, this is guaranteed win.

 

[slatermd]

I despise the standard "welcome to college" explaining-away of terrible teaching. Of course, college is a place for far more independent learning and autonomy than high school, and it is also a place where people who are better learners and harder workers will rise to the top.

Does this climate mean professors should be allowed to be terrible teachers?

Imagine that every professor excelled at teaching - meaning they deeply understood and could superbly explain and present the material, sought every opportunity to check and give feedback on student understanding, differentiated content (or at least made such differentiation possible) so that faster students could effectively deepen their own understanding, etc.

Two results- 1) lower end students who still attended class would improve both in understanding and in test scores, 2) higher end students would learn more and learn it more deeply.

BTW: LACs may have some hippies and preppies, but the small class sizes and greater emphasis on teaching in comparison with huge research universities means you will actually find professors more akin to the description above. Hippies aside, this is guaranteed win.

Word is bond.

Terrible profs are Terrible.
Bad profs are neutral and should be expected.
Great profs are Great.

Liberal Art does run some very good colleges.

 

[IvyHopeful20]

I despise the standard "welcome to college" explaining-away of terrible teaching. Of course, college is a place for far more independent learning and autonomy than high school, and it is also a place where people who are better learners and harder workers will rise to the top.

Does this climate mean professors should be allowed to be terrible teachers?

Imagine that every professor excelled at teaching - meaning they deeply understood and could superbly explain and present the material, sought every opportunity to check and give feedback on student understanding, differentiated content (or at least made such differentiation possible) so that faster students could effectively deepen their own understanding, etc.

Two results- 1) lower end students who still attended class would improve both in understanding and in test scores, 2) higher end students would learn more and learn it more deeply.

BTW: LACs may have some hippies and preppies, but the small class sizes and greater emphasis on teaching in comparison with huge research universities means you will actually find professors more akin to the description above. Hippies aside, this is guaranteed win.

Um, most PhDs don't ever take a class on how to teach. They TA a class or two, but that's it. They are scholars, and they are judged on scholarship.

 

[Signifier]

You honestly don't need to take a full-blown class on teaching to be a decent teacher. Professional development, accountability, etc. can do wonders.

The system is flawed, I agree: mediocre instruction seems to be an outcome implicit in the expectation that PhDs will do two jobs that are actually quite different (research & teaching).

We could be doing a much better job teaching our undergraduates. "Welcome to college" / "PhDs are for research" are not solutions to this problem.

 

[slatermd]

"Welcome to college" / "PhDs are for research" are not solutions to this problem.

Truth. Also, congrats on your senior member status 😉

 

[IvyHopeful20]

You honestly don't need to take a full-blown class on teaching to be a decent teacher. Professional development, accountability, etc. can do wonders.

The system is flawed, I agree: mediocre instruction seems to be an outcome implicit in the expectation that PhDs will do two jobs that are actually quite different (research & teaching).

We could be doing a much better job teaching our undergraduates. "Welcome to college" / "PhDs are for research" are not solutions to this problem.

Except it's not a 'problem' as far as I'm concerned. I'd rather have universities be a place with researchers. It was designed that way, where the boundries of knowledge would be pushed and if you wanted, you could "learn by doing" under the tutelage of an expert in their field - and that's what happens in grad school where you pick a lab/mentor in the specific subfield you want to go into.

Undergraduate education is secondary, and frankly, since its not cutting edge, you can and should learn it yourself with the teacher there only as a resource.

 

[IvyHopeful20]

Or, if you feel strongly, you can go to a college without grad programs where professors are judged more on teaching rather than scholarship.

 

[WingedOx]

If the OP's examples are what makes a "good teacher" than I weep for the quality of American college students.

As for LACs... get away from Wesleyan and Oberlin and you can find some good liberal arts colleges without the hippies. Hell, in Ohio, the liberal arts college center of the universe you have schools for hippies, apathetic folk, football players who couldn't crack D1, and schools for crazy conservative christians... (though the true crazy schools are north of the border in Michigan).

 

[Silverman780]

This is why I get mad when people scoff at the idea of a quality education at a CC.I'm saving Orgo and my math for the university just for those grade curves...

 

[nabeel76]

Hell Uni is easier than high school. 3 classes a day? V.s 7 classes a day with a hellishly early wake up? Not to mention all the hwk..

Not sure if your being serious or not, but there is NO WAY high school was easier than college? True you may have less class time, but you can take the amount of study time that you had in HS and multiply it by 20 in college. I didn't even study in HS and did alright, if I pulled that off at UVA I would of had my ass handed back to me, especially in the sciences.

 

[KPCOFGS]

Oh God - I couldn't possibly handle the hippy factor.

Or the preppy factor.

I feel obligated to point out that neither of these things describe my college at all. I also have never experienced the problems people are talking about in this topic--professors are there because they love teaching, and they're good at what they do. So before you brush off liberal arts colleges, do some research! 🙄

 

[Drrrrrr. Celty]

Not sure if your being serious or not, but there is NO WAY high school was easier than college? True you may have less class time, but you can take the amount of study time that you had in HS and multiply it by 20 in college. I didn't even study in HS and did alright, if I pulled that off at UVA I would of had my ass handed back to me, especially in the sciences.

Oh don't misunderstand, college is significantly more work and studying. But in my opinion that doesn't mean its inherently more difficult. High school was much more tedious and boring and lasted forever every day. In college you're learning things you are actually interested in and overall in school for at most 20 hours a week ( Early wake up not required) v.s 35 hours a week in HS ( Wake up at 6). Now you bring up a point, you need to study more to succeed. Well honestly again I'd rather spend the 15 hour difference on my bed with a hot cup of tea with a book than trying to stay awake while in my 6th class of the day on some borderline remedial subject.

 

[s1lver]

about spending two hours on one physics homework, i feel your pain. masteringphysics.com is so different compared to the examples on the book and there is no solution worksheet after the due date so i can at least figure out what im doing wrong.

resorted to just buying a membership on cramster :/